Inetbet acting funny

I'm pretty lost too Paul, so don't feel bad. I don't really understand the issue, besides the fact that Soda's account has been closed. All I can gather is that he had some "security issue" with the casino, and after that, I don't know.

Indeed

The point is: MY ACCOUNT IS CLOSED, BECAUSE I SENT DETAILS TO INETBET,

WHAT WAS THE SECURITY ISSUE.

THIS IS CONFIRMED,
DATABASE WAS OPEN - DATASHEET WAS OPEN

I SAID I WILL PUBLISH THIS ISSUE, IF THEY DO NOT FIX THIS.

REPLY WAS: THEY CLOSED MY ACCOUNT!

IS SECURITY ISSUE STILL EXIST, IS IT POSSIBLE TO LOAD DATASHEET - BASED USERNAME/ETC - ANSWER: YES

Hopefully capital letters helped you understand...

ok, ok... i am Fking pissed... so try to get it...

damn it.. or read my over 650 useless posts

fking damn it... pardon my france, i mean Finnish :)
 
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Remember, almost 1200 emails are positive... and only few may have this kind of critic!
I'm a bit confused as well, but I can imagine anyone receiving 1,200 e-mails from 1 person, no matter what the contents, would be likely to get a bit peeved! :eek2:

Sounds a bit obsessive & certainly excessive to me.

From Soda's posts I think he is saying that a first grade junior computer hacker can access iNetBet's database of all players names, account numbers & other personal details...? :eek:
Could be wrong here, but that's my interpretaion...

KK
 
I'm a bit confused as well, but I can imagine anyone receiving 1,200 e-mails from 1 person, no matter what the contents, would be likely to get a bit peeved! :eek2:

Sounds a bit obsessive & certainly excessive to me.

From Soda's posts I think he is saying that a first grade junior computer hacker can access iNetBet's database of all players names, account numbers & other personal details...? :eek:
Could be wrong here, but that's my interpretaion...

KK


You have probably got it in one.

Looks like an incorrect link was sent out to the player, which instead of linking them to their OWN account, linked them through to the casino administration panel:eek:

The link posted (without the /XXXXXXX) simply requires the administrator to log in, clearly hackable, since a good deal of the legwork has been done by giving out the route to this page on the server (a sequence of 20 random letters). I presume that, given an appropriate value for the following /XXXXXX, the link will automatically log into the casino admin area.

It seems that sodax is saying that the original link DID INDEED have a value for "/XXXXXXX" that logged straight into the admin area.

When sodax tried to make the support staff aware, they simply assumed this was a threat (blackmail - whatever), and reacted by not cooperating with this attempt to assist, but rather brought on a confrontation. The accusation that sodax was attempting to obtain "personal information", seems to be derived from their view that sodax had actually hacked the server, and had sent the resulting spreadsheet not as evidence of the bug, but as a statement of "threat", such as "do this for me, or this information might be misused.)

I would hope that all administrator username and password details were immediately changed as soon as they were aware of this breach, but they should also ensure that they are sufficiently secure such that a cracking script attached to this page could not grant easy access.

As well as personal details of players, this admin area will probably contain access to the operator "tweaks" to payout tables and slot percentages.

Strictly speaking, the login area should not be shown to an IP outside of the range used by apropriate employees. Most websites would simply show "access denied", rather than allow use of the secure page.
It may be that the admin page is on the same server as the players use to log into their OWN accounts, and thus cannot be blocked by IP.

The fact that sodax originally got in through the link in the E-mail about the withdrawal means this is a pretty serious issue, as the same mistake could well be made in E-mails to other players, they may even just try to log into their player account without really reading the fact this is "administrator", not player, login.

The large number of E-mails exchanged between sodax and support simply ensured this issue was looked upon as "oh no, not again!", rather than being properly addressed. This just ensured sodax got the impression they just did not care about the potential security issue, and just wanted sodax to "go away and forget about it" - sodax could not do this until an assurance had been received that management had checked for, and closed, any security issues.

I rather get the impression this is an RTG problem, not just this one casino, and is how the RTG software comes when supplied. At the very least, the page should have been reallocated such that it could no longer be reached by the original 20 letter coded link.

I expect there are MANY RTG casinos where this happening would be treated with enthusiasm by disaffected players, but fortunately InetBet is not one of them. Disaffected players are probably thinking along the lines of "does this glitch exist at CoolCat".

I had not thought that one of the major brands would allow administrative access over the internet with just the protection of two simple codes (user & password). I get the impression that such functions at brands such as Microgaming are performed locally at the offices of the operators by secure links (I could be wrong, operators please do NOT clarify if this is the case, just check it really is secure!).

It might be an idea to have Bryan look at all these E-mails that lead to this parting of ways, mainly to see how this developed into a mud-slinging match when sodax tried to report this one security concern. (Or was it already a mud-slinging match BEFORE this particular issue became the "last straw" for support).
 
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Thank you Vinyl (and KK). You have described it in terms that even I can understand. I have zero technical knowledge like I said, and Soda I'm sorry that I couldn't grasp your explanation, and just frustrated you further. No harm done.

That is an excellent post VWM, and something that should be looked at further, IMO.
 
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I'm surprised iNetbet hasn't commented on this yet. :confused:

Good point JustPlay, but maybe they haven't seen it as yet. I really think this topic deserves its own thread, where it can be properly discussed. I don't know how others feel about it, but I find it pretty shocking that a person with even limited hacking skills could probably gain access to the database through that page. I think it warrants further discussion, and a response. Any others think so as well? Maybe Simmo can break off the relevant posts into their own thread, with an appropriate title?
 
I think it's shocking as well!

Even teenagers are so computer savvy ya know?

I wouldn't be in on the discussion for I have VERY limited knowledge on computers and casinos, :oops: but I would be interested in reading what the other members thought about this.
 
I wouldn't be in on the discussion for I have VERY limited knowledge on computers and casinos, :oops: but I would be interested in reading what the other members thought about this.

Ditto here JustPlay. I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the on/off button, and the reset button on my computer, lol. But yes, I'd like to see it discussed, and addressed. I'm going to send our Muppet Man a PM and see if he agrees.
 
It sure would be most appropriate if one of the InetBet spokepersons who regularly post on this forum... would respond to this.

I feel that Sodax has made a very valid and serious allegation here... and it surely deserves to be addressed.
 
Well, I guess a casino can choose its customers for whatever reasons they choose.
"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

Bummer Soda, I think I'd just move on.

Best to ya:thumbsup:


If you go into a Bar and you had to much to drink the bartender can shut you off. saying the same thing. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"
we feel is intoxicated. same Analogy. ...
 
You have probably got it in one.

Looks like an incorrect link was sent out to the player, which instead of linking them to their OWN account, linked them through to the casino administration panel:eek:

The link posted (without the /XXXXXXX) simply requires the administrator to log in, clearly hackable, since a good deal of the legwork has been done by giving out the route to this page on the server (a sequence of 20 random letters). I presume that, given an appropriate value for the following /XXXXXX, the link will automatically log into the casino admin area.

It seems that sodax is saying that the original link DID INDEED have a value for "/XXXXXXX" that logged straight into the admin area.

When sodax tried to make the support staff aware, they simply assumed this was a threat (blackmail - whatever), and reacted by not cooperating with this attempt to assist, but rather brought on a confrontation. The accusation that sodax was attempting to obtain "personal information", seems to be derived from their view that sodax had actually hacked the server, and had sent the resulting spreadsheet not as evidence of the bug, but as a statement of "threat", such as "do this for me, or this information might be misused.)

I would hope that all administrator username and password details were immediately changed as soon as they were aware of this breach, but they should also ensure that they are sufficiently secure such that a cracking script attached to this page could not grant easy access.

As well as personal details of players, this admin area will probably contain access to the operator "tweaks" to payout tables and slot percentages.

Strictly speaking, the login area should not be shown to an IP outside of the range used by apropriate employees. Most websites would simply show "access denied", rather than allow use of the secure page.
It may be that the admin page is on the same server as the players use to log into their OWN accounts, and thus cannot be blocked by IP.

The fact that sodax originally got in through the link in the E-mail about the withdrawal means this is a pretty serious issue, as the same mistake could well be made in E-mails to other players, they may even just try to log into their player account without really reading the fact this is "administrator", not player, login.

The large number of E-mails exchanged between sodax and support simply ensured this issue was looked upon as "oh no, not again!", rather than being properly addressed. This just ensured sodax got the impression they just did not care about the potential security issue, and just wanted sodax to "go away and forget about it" - sodax could not do this until an assurance had been received that management had checked for, and closed, any security issues.

I rather get the impression this is an RTG problem, not just this one casino, and is how the RTG software comes when supplied. At the very least, the page should have been reallocated such that it could no longer be reached by the original 20 letter coded link.

I expect there are MANY RTG casinos where this happening would be treated with enthusiasm by disaffected players, but fortunately InetBet is not one of them. Disaffected players are probably thinking along the lines of "does this glitch exist at CoolCat".

I had not thought that one of the major brands would allow administrative access over the internet with just the protection of two simple codes (user & password). I get the impression that such functions at brands such as Microgaming are performed locally at the offices of the operators by secure links (I could be wrong, operators please do NOT clarify if this is the case, just check it really is secure!).

It might be an idea to have Bryan look at all these E-mails that lead to this parting of ways, mainly to see how this developed into a mud-slinging match when sodax tried to report this one security concern. (Or was it already a mud-slinging match BEFORE this particular issue became the "last straw" for support).

Exactly. when i am so angry (and my primary language is Finnish)... i just can not make a single good post! Compare all issues under one post.

Thanks vinylweatherman, you stated almost 99%, what i tried to said.
Much appreciated

And yeah, i was too mad, that i didn't even understand my own posts, lol ;)

Glad that people will help me :)

Even mistakes, etc. I already got more information via PM and email
Thank you everyone! :notworthy
 
Oh Where O' Where is INetBet on this??????????

I too, would like to see INetBet chime in on this issue...and I LOVE the casino - play there all the time, but it does seem that perhaps Alan jumped the gun a little on this one, being more concerned about the result of Sodax's frustration vs. the cause of it.

A couple of months ago, I was having a horrible losing streak at INet, I had deposited some ridiculous amount of money and literally couldn't hit a frickin' 3 of a kind even (VP)...so I wrote the casino to ask for a bonus, and being in the frustrated frame of mind that I was, said something like, "I cannot believe that I have wagered this much money on VP and still never hit ANYthing...how is this possible???" Alan got pretty defensive, claiming I was accusing the casino of "cheating" (and how dare I, or words to that effect) or being something other than a reputable, fair casino. That wasn't my intent at all, I was simply frustrated and voicing it.

He (and all "Customer Service Reps") should remember that as a member of front line support, they ARE often the ones that we "vent" to, yell and scream at, share our gambling woes and frustrations with...it would be a pretty ugly job for these guys if we weren't continuing to deposit our money in between rants, right? Seems they should not be so quick to take statements personally by a player when it's obviously just someone extremely frustrated and perhaps not communicating well. Just my 2cents...
 
I'm surprised iNetbet hasn't commented on this yet. :confused:

They are here a lot, and they are here right now actually.

I just noticed that they already (emily and pomos, etc)
read this thread over 10 times.

Sorry, i slept few hours ;)

So they do know, i also sent information to Emily (before this) and to the Casino - few hous ago, where i offer solution. Because i know! ...eg. how fix some issues.

They do not reply me (so far)

I just follow etiquette
 
Hi Guys,
I will keep this as short and sweet as I can.

The reason we have not posted previously is because we did not feel this warranted a response. The objective of their posts is not to report anything just to attention seek. However as there have been requests for us to do so, here goes :)

Firstly this player did not have their account closed for the reasons they have stated but a combination of many others that I am not going to go into here.
We, as I am sure many members here already know, would not ban a player for pointing out a supposed error.

Moving onto the error. This came about when the player was sent some information from their account on request. This information mistakenly contained a hyperlink to a page in part of the c/s admin. When the player tried to click to open it they got an error page. This was entirely correct as they were not allowed access to this. That is all this supposed security breach pertains to. The player has had this explained on many occasions but still persists in reporting it and has now brought it up here.

Please be assured that there are no security issues at all. The admin page mentioned is not accessible by a simple username and password combination. As you would imagine it is more complex than that.

I hope that this clarifies things for everyone.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend

Best Regards
iNetBet Promos
 
Hi Guys,
I will keep this as short and sweet as I can.

The reason we have not posted previously is because we did not feel this warranted a response. The objective of their posts is not to report anything just to attention seek. However as there have been requests for us to do so, here goes :)

Firstly this player did not have their account closed for the reasons they have stated but a combination of many others that I am not going to go into here.
We, as I am sure many members here already know, would not ban a player for pointing out a supposed error.

Moving onto the error. This came about when the player was sent some information from their account on request. This information mistakenly contained a hyperlink to a page in part of the c/s admin. When the player tried to click to open it they got an error page. This was entirely correct as they were not allowed access to this. That is all this supposed security breach pertains to. The player has had this explained on many occasions but still persists in reporting it and has now brought it up here.

Please be assured that there are no security issues at all. The admin page mentioned is not accessible by a simple username and password combination. As you would imagine it is more complex than that.

I hope that this clarifies things for everyone.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend

Best Regards
iNetBet Promos

This is not so bad. I got the impression this player was able to get right in to the system through that errant hyperlink, and did quote

"THIS IS CONFIRMED,
DATABASE WAS OPEN - DATASHEET WAS OPEN

I SAID I WILL PUBLISH THIS ISSUE, IF THEY DO NOT FIX THIS.

REPLY WAS: THEY CLOSED MY ACCOUNT!

IS SECURITY ISSUE STILL EXIST, IS IT POSSIBLE TO LOAD DATASHEET - BASED USERNAME/ETC - ANSWER: YES"

This looked like they got right in, not received the usual error page.
Maybe they kept trying the link, and kept on badgering about the issue each time they got a result they perceived as being "wrong".

The main worry among other players is how this hyperlink escaped into the public domain in the first place. This joins cases where players receive promotional E-mails addressed to "someone else" (not singling out any one casino).
I once received a promotion which began "Dear Elad....... account no xxxxxxxx".
As far as I was concerned, I had been sent a personalised promotion intended for a player called Elad, and that the account number was live. In the end, it turned out to be some test gone awry, and "Elad" and their account did not really exist.

There have been other allegations from players that their accounts have been hacked into, and the response of casinos has always been to accuse the player of being careless with their account details.
An incident like this, where a sensitive link is sent to someone in error, shows that it CAN be the case that a mistake by the casino could expose player information to the wrong people.

The player also brought up the issue of personal information, or rather support did, in this reply:-

Dear x
I am sorry but this has really got to stop.
Our support staff do not not understand half of your mails and that is not because you are Finnish.
You are continually sending in mails criticising one member or another of my staff.
Then I find out you are trying to check on peoples personal data and information. [False]*
You are welcome to play with us but I really must ask you to confine your future mails to our support to Casino business matter only.
We are not equipped to answer any other mails than those concerning either your account or a question related to Casino business.
I am not being harsh with you x as we appreciate you have said nice things about us, I am simply trying to stop this continual back and forth of pointless mails.
regards
Emily

This gave me the impression that the player, far from being thanked, was being accused of being the "hacker", attempting to breach this page login and get at the personal data of players. This seems to have fuelled the mud-slinging match even further.
Given that there are supposedly some 1600 E-mails involved, and we have been privvy to less that a dozen, and these chosen by the player, there is a possibility that we have seen a biased report on how this player was treated by the casino. This is why we need someone such as Bryan to be asked to look at the whole picture to see if this was handled badly by either side, or whether the casino was tasked with dealing with an "impossible" player.

We should not be harsh on InetBet for not responding earlier, as this all started with this player tagging this older issue onto this current thread related to something else - initially giving the impression of the standard "attention seeking thread hijack", and it took a while to work out what the issue was all about.

Whether this issue is still live or not depends on whether this player can really get right into the admin site through the errant hyperlink, or whether it is just a standard error page due to insufficient authorisation (which shows security is WORKING).
 
vinylweatherman, oh man, i cry here
You really understand, what i mean.
And if remeber right, some poeple undrstand their message.....
after your reply. lol. :)

Like Pina Tennis, Winbig and YOU the Weatherman aka VWM
You will undersrand.... what is that..... You will get it, without
Even i am no perfect human being

Of course i didn't like what iNetBet Promos said.... or actually it wasn't anything, what we expect
Bu better speak normally and avoid some things.... as YOU Stated
Remember, you may use aything against me from my 12000 mails in past 4-5 years or....
Act like an adults.
If You can!
And..... apology t Emily Hanson

since SHE do not apology her mistakes.

But like i stated, Emily was against MANY PLAYERS in past, before any awards and so on, reasons: RTG reputation, RTG software, etc
 
It is likely this avalanche of E-mails is what caused the problems with the relationship between the casino and Sodax. The posted support replies indicate these communications went outside of casino related matters.


But like i stated, Emily was against MANY PLAYERS in past, before any awards and so on, reasons: RTG reputation, RTG software, etc

This seems to be the kind of thing that is winding Inetbet support up, make an apology, and three lines later it has somehow become an accusation, derogatory statement, whatever.

I do not know what went on at InetBet before accreditation, did they really behave like the typical RTG rogue, or are they the victim of guilt by association, something the well run RTG sites are having to contend with.

If the relationship between player and casino has broken down to this extent, it seems that having the account closed is the only way out, whether this is initiated by the player, or the casino.

Sodax, you have done all you can to get them to look at this security issue, if in the future it turns out that some form of exploit DOES exist, and some poor RTG casino gets taken, then who is going to have the egg on their faces - certainly won't be you, as you will have that beaming "I told you so" grin on your face:D
 
Four very direct questions. Two for Soda....were you ever able to actually access their database? And if so, can you still?

Two for Vinylweatherman. Are you satisfied (personally) that the casino has taken this issue seriously? Do you think that a security issue did exist, and does it still? Personal opinion only. I bow to your superior technical knowledge. :notworthy
 
Four very direct questions. Two for Soda....were you ever able to actually access their database? And if so, can you still?

Two for Vinylweatherman. Are you satisfied (personally) that the casino has taken this issue seriously? Do you think that a security issue did exist, and does it still? Personal opinion only. I bow to your superior technical knowledge. :notworthy

I believe the casino have concluded that Sodax was never able to properly access the admin page, but rathe that they received odd error messages and alerts that gave the impression that something had been breached. As such, they would be satisfied that knowledge of the location of this page itself is not a security issue, and that RTG software is secure enough to prevent the login being hacked.
I am not 100% convinced though, while I can believe that Sodax did not get right in, the fact that this page was hidden by that random 20 character directory name in the hyperlink indicates that the design thought this was necessary, unlike the login to our internet banks whose login page is dead easy to find, with all the security being during login.
An issue might still exist, one that has yet to be exploited. This would be done through attaching a script to crack the first layer of protection, the username and pasword for admin. This could even be the second layer, the first being the hidden nature of the page location. If this is cracked, the next layer(s) may fall soon after, and possibly before the casino notices. The exploit could then be used at a different RTG casino, one that was never aware of this issue in the first place. Once in, it would not take long for a good hacker to achieve something useful, even if that were mere revenge rather than an attempt to make profit.

If indeed Sodax did get right in, and still can, this would be proof that the casinos do still have a security breach, and it can then be inferred that they did nothing when Sodax brought it to their attention.

The only way to take this further is for Sodax to show that access past the login is still somehow possible through that original hyperlink. if it isn't now, but once was, it shows something was indeed done, but never communicated to Sodax, who believed their concerns to have been ignored.
 
It's very obvious to me that the casino has sendt a private link directly into their admin area, and from what Sodax77 is saying the link was authentication enough - meaning it contained login and password. This is not usual in backend systems, however, depending on the software developer why not? They are using a hash for generating the URK anyway so you can't exactly guess it.

The casino - and do we know theese slick people by now, they will always defend themselves. The only thing the casino can state - true or false - is what they said, that he only got the login page, and all is swell and no problem occured. When do you see a casino admit anything really? Aslong as there are an accusation like tihs against a casino, anyone for that matter, I expect the answer to be a slick - sit back and relax, we got all under control answer, as usual!

I would love to see a screenshot of the webpage in mention, if those were made, it would be very easy to proove/disproove what accually happened.

Another thing, being a software developer myselv, if it infact was a URL without login, I would also guess this is only a "view" mode - where you can't accually do much. However, it's still ment for the casino people and not the general users!
 
I would love to see a screenshot of the webpage in mention, if those were made, it would be very easy to proove/disproove what accually happened.

That would do it for me, one way or the other. Soda, does such a screenshot exist?
 

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