[IN PROGRESS] Luckyacecasino - bonus "abuse" problem

[maxd]

And FWIW I've let Tex know about this. It will be interesting to see what happens because of that.

 

[aksana]

I felt that there was something wrong in this casino, and didn't want to work with them until I didn't check them on GPWA, CAP and Casino Meister. And almost all members of these forums have complaints.
They are big spammers, they close winner accounts and now they use eCogra seal on their site although they are not approved by eCogra.

 

[The Dude]

...and now they use eCogra seal on their site although they are not approved by eCogra.

Maybe they think they are approved by eCOGRA since they are a white-label of 888.com.

Nevertheless, I've noticed that a number of the PABs are on hold since the submitter had not contacted the casino support for an explanation why the account was closed. Please read the instructions for PABs. You need to make a clear effort to resolve this matter on your own before Max deals with this.

Also, please bear in mind that you should not involve more than one third party at a time. If you are contemplating submitting a complaint at eCOGRA, let Max deal with it first. Doing these at the same time just clogs up the tubes on the Internets.

 

[happygooner]

Bitch just pitched.

Thanks in advance for any help with this.

Just one thing...

Should I wait to see how this turns up before reporting to the Gibraltar regulators in much the same way as you suggested to wait before going the Ecogra route?

 

[The Dude]

...Should I wait to see how this turns up before reporting to the Gibraltar regulators in much the same way as you suggested to wait before going the Ecogra route?

Yes - take one step at a time. I anticipate that this should be cleared up soon.

 

[I<3Microgaming]

It's amazing to me that veterans in the industry such as Cassava get to be so horrible year after year.

The spam, the bonus issues, and they still strive in the industry! They have carried on for years with these unacceptable and ridiculous issues.

And the appalling software! Just like PartyPoker's, it has a really cheap and patched up feel to it. You'd think after this many years they'd innovate a bit and polish it up, at least remove those stutters/lag. (If anyone has played at Party or 888.com or whatever, you know what I mean. Happens on every client on every computer!) Cassava and PartyPoker badly need to trash their current clients and rebuild from the ground up. I guess punters have really low expectations when it comes to gambling environments.

 

[maxd]

Nevertheless, I've noticed that a number of the PABs are on hold since the submitter had not contacted the casino support for an explanation why the account was closed. Please read the instructions for PABs. You need to make a clear effort to resolve this matter on your own before Max deals with this.

Thanks Bryan, important stuff for everyone to take notice of.

I have PM'd all the people that didn't clearly indicate their attempts to resolve their issues with the casino PRIOR to submitting their PAB. Those cases will remain "On Hold" until I get a satisfactory reply.

Please Note: Everyone is being told by Lucky Ace and/or 888 that they need to contact Lucky Ace operations people via email in order to have their questions dealt with. YOU MUST DO THIS.

If you haven't tried to contact LA operations, or just did it yesterday and PAB'd anyway because you thought you had some reason to believe that they won't get back to you, then your PAB is invalid and I can't help you.

I'm having a tough enough time trying to get someone from Lucky Ace to look at the legitimate issues without having to weed through the incomplete and invalid ones. Please respect the service we offer and comply fully with the Pitch-A-Bitch requirements. Failure to do so will mean that your PAB will be delayed indefinitely or discarded.

 

[SlotsWizard]

... clogs up the tubes on the Internets.

It doesn't matter how many times I hear it, this phrase just never gets old (or at the very least, it will never get as old as the person who coined it).

 

[happygooner]

Hopefully the fact that I haven't heard from them for just over 2 days, following their accusation and my immediate response, is enough not invalidate my complaint?

 

[maxd]

Sorry, two days isn't nearly enough time for them to reply. Clearly they have a lot of these on their plate and it's only reasonable to give them several days to process individual requests.

You PAB is "On Hold" like several of the others. Let me know how things are going by, say next Wednesday, and we'll review the case then.

 

[happygooner]

Sorry, two days isn't nearly enough time for them to reply. Clearly they have a lot of these on their plate and it's only reasonable to give them several days to process individual requests.

You PAB is "On Hold" like several of the others. Let me know how things are going by, say next Wednesday, and we'll review the case then.

Ok cheers Max

 

[sushicoo]

Hi guys, I am again one of the victims here and have just sent a PAB. Just wanna let you guys know though from what I heard from another forum, some people did get paid. I believe one that lost money was paid a couple of days back.

 

[roeltjek]

I get the usual message, the point which they always mention:

Dear xxx,
This is David H from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. Cassava Enterprises manages operational services for LuckyAceCasino.com. I am contacting you with regards to your account with the username xxxx.

According to the User Agreement you have with us, in the event that we believe that if a user is abusing or attempting to abuse a bonus or other promotion, or is likely to benefit through abuse or lack of good faith from a gaming policy adopted by us, then we may in our sole discretion, deny any bonus or promotion, or rescind any policy in respect of that user, either temporarily or permanently.

We have noticed that the only purpose you are opening accounts with us is to abuse our Bonus offer. These actions have nothing to do with the gaming services we provide and are not welcome.

This Email is to inform you that we have made a decision to discontinue your membership with LuckyAceCasino.com.

Any requested cashouts will be paid up to the initial deposited amount and any remaining funds will be returned to the bankroll and voided.

Please refrain from opening further accounts with casino's owned and operate by Cassava Enterprises Ltd, as they too will be blocked and the deposits not returned.

Regards, David H

 

[abat]

Another PAB

Just posted my PAB about Lucky Ace.

 

[samiboi]

Another PAB from me also. New member yes Heard that this site may be able to help with lucky ace casino problem.

 

[Fender1]

I'm having a tough enough time trying to get someone from Lucky Ace to look at the legitimate issues

kind of says it all really

 

[jetset]

There are clearly scores, if not hundreds of players from many locations currently posting about this across the Internet, so one can only imagine the number out there who do not frequent message boards but have still been given this unacceptable treatment.

This has all the hallmarks of a major scandal, and I'm surprised that 888.com have apparently not yet identified it as such and taken urgent steps to address the fundamental issue here:

Did the players adhere to the T&Cs attached to the Kamay Holdings offer?

If they did, pay them and then lock them out if you don't like their business.

This non-specific "bonus abuse" BS and returning deposits only is not the way to go.

 

[RobWin]

I'd like to know what eCOGRA thinks about this casino using their site approved seal and if they plan on taking any action against LuckyAceCasino for blatantly stealing it ?

 

[tsj]

Just thought I'd let you know... my orignal deposit arrived back into my bank account today.

 

[GI Joe]

Im also a bonusabuser

I lost my intire deposit...200$...I just wonder will they return the deposit to me?

Of course not...but its way out they wont pay...but I think they didnt know what hit them

Good luck to you all.

 

[Shocked]

Ah, it's all clear now!

For those with insomnia and who have read this whole thread - I sent them a polite email asking them why they were saying that I was abusing bonuses..and today it's all been cleared up with this reply from them:

Dear [not telling],

This is John D. from the Operations Department at Cassava (Gibraltar)
Ltd. Cassava Enterprises manages operational services for
LuckyAceCasino.com. I am writing with regards to your account with the
username [not telling].

Please accept my apologies for lateness of this reply. We have been
experiencing an extremely high volume of emails which has prevented us
from reaching our normal response time of 24-48 hours.

[not telling], upon recent review it has been noted that your accounts related
to other accounts that have been permanently blocked for reasons which
due to our privacy policies I am unable to disclose.

Due to this, your account has been permanently blocked and will not be
re-instated.

Please refrain from opening any account on our site or affiliates as
these will be blocked immediately and any deposit forfeited.

Therefore in light of all above I now consider this matter closed and no
further correspondence on this issue will be entertained.

Kind regards,
John D
Operation Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd.
[email protected]


So, they're blocking my lucky ace casino a/c and nicking my bonus and non-bonus winnings, because I was blocked at 888 at the same time..and they can't tell me why I've been blocked at 888 because it's private and non-of-my-business...apart from it being about my business. Oh and I'm not allowed to talk to them anymore because they don't want to talk anymore??

Is that about right?

 

[RobWin]

Sounds like they are sending everyone the same mass email letter...WTF...

I really want to know how eCOGRA is going to deal with this mess ?

 

[maxd]

eCOGRA has already stated that it's not their mess to deal with since Lucky Ace is not one of their Accredited casinos. If you read the text carefully Lucky Ace doesn't actually say they are certified by eCOGRA, just that they "comply with all guidelines". Presumably Lucky Ace is showing the eCOGRA "Play It Safe" seal without eCOGRA's permission, at least that's the impression I got when I informed their rep about it.

For those of you following this issue I'm afraid I have to report that the news isn't good. All I hear is "888 have confirmed that they are aware of the disputes and are currently investigating the situation."

And nothing happens. Their rep here is no longer responding to my PMs. To date I have about 18 formal complaints against Lucky Ace -- admittedly a number of them are "On Hold" for a variety of reasons* -- and nowhere to send them because no one at 888 will step forward and take responsibility for dealing with these issues.

If you think this is seriously bad behaviour on the part of Lucky Ace, and by association 888.com and 888 Holdings, then you've come to the same conclusion I have. If we don't see changes in this situation VERY SOON I'm going to be looking at taking some formal steps against the lot of them.

* If your issue is "On Hold" you'll have received a PM from me indicating (1) there is info missing from your PAB and I'm waiting to hear back from you, or (2) the reasons for your issue being moved to "On Hold". If you've received no such PM then you can assume the PAB is active and I'll proceed with it as soon as there is someone from LuckyAce/888 willing to step forward and take responsibility for looking at them.

 

[maxd]

FWIW, and for the record, this is another one of those boiler-plate letters players are reporting having received:

Dear xxxxx,
This is Henry M from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. Cassava Enterprises manages operational services for LuckyAceCasino.com. I am contacting you with regards to your account with the username "xxxxx" and in response to your email.

With regards to your all accounts, this has been reviewed and the decision to permanently discontinue your membership still stands. This decision is final and has only been taken after careful consideration of all factors involved.

Please refrain from opening any further accounts with any site owned or operated by 888.com as these too will be blocked and no deposits returned.

Please note we now consider this matter closed and no further correspondence will be entered into.

Regards,
Henry M
Operations Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd.
[email protected]
Fax: +350-59975

 

[GrandMaster]

eCOGRA has already stated that it's not their mess to deal with since Lucky Ace is not one of their Accredited casinos. If you read the text carefully Lucky Ace doesn't actually say they are certified by eCOGRA, just that they "comply with all guidelines". Presumably Lucky Ace is showing the eCOGRA "Play It Safe" seal without eCOGRA's permission, at least that's the impression I got when I informed their rep about it.

I have talked to Lucky Ace customer support. They claim they are "the same as 888.com" and that they are covered by 888.com's ecogra membership.

 

[RobWin]

I have talked to Lucky Ace customer support. They claim they are "the same as 888.com" and that they are covered by 888.com's ecogra membership.

I thought that each individual casino had to be certified independently by eCOGRA and couldn't fall under the groups umbrella ?

 

[maxd]

I have talked to Lucky Ace customer support. They claim they are "the same as 888.com" and that they are covered by 888.com's ecogra membership.

I've talked to Tex Rees, the eCOGRA rep, and she seemed to think otherwise. That said the eCOGRA seal is still up at LuckyAce so ... who knows?

In a way I hope that LuckyAce is "covered" by the 888 membership at eCOGRA. That way we'll at least be able to ask the eCOGRA people to take a serious look at this mess. In my experience thus far good things happen when the eCOGRA people get seriously involved.

PS. 888.com is on eCOGRA's Accredited list but LuckyAce isn't.

 

[juan988]

Lucky Ace has voided my winnings for $1k+ along with the same reasons as everyone else. I believe somehow because I won more than what might be considered normal and that I placed $50-200 bets the whole time instead of more conservative ones, they're calling my playing abuse of bonuses. But they haven't explained this, I'm only guessing.

How do these casinos manage to stay in business?

From their side I've received only this message:

Dear xxxx,

This is David H from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises
(Gibraltar) Ltd. Cassava Enterprises manages operational services for
LuckyAceCasino.com. I am contacting you with regards to your account
with the username juanPena.

According to the User Agreement you have with us, in the event that we
believe that if a user is abusing or attempting to abuse a bonus or
other promotion, or is likely to benefit through abuse or lack of good
faith from a gaming policy
adopted by us, then we may in our sole discretion, deny any bonus or
promotion, or rescind any policy in respect of that user, either
temporarily or permanently.

We have noticed that the only purpose you are opening accounts with us
is to abuse our Bonus offer. These actions have nothing to do with the
gaming services we provide and are not welcome.

This Email is to inform you that we have made a decision
to discontinue your membership with LuckyAceCasino.com.

Any requested cashouts will be paid up to the initial deposited amount
and any remaining funds will be returned to the bankroll and voided.

Please refrain from opening further accounts with casino's owned and
operate by Cassava Enterprises Ltd, as they too will be blocked and the
deposits not returned.

Regards,

David H

 

[GrandMaster]

I've talked to Tex Rees, the eCOGRA rep, and she seemed to think otherwise. That said the eCOGRA seal is still up at LuckyAce so ... who knows?

In a way I hope that LuckyAce is "covered" by the 888 membership at eCOGRA. That way we'll at least be able to ask the eCOGRA people to take a serious look at this mess. In my experience thus far good things happen when the eCOGRA people get seriously involved.

PS. 888.com is on eCOGRA's Accredited list but LuckyAce isn't.

Ecogra should send a "cease and desist" letter to Lucky Ace, and have some words with 888.com, since 888.com is clearly in some kind of business relationship with Lucky Ace.

 

[maxd]

Ecogra should send a "cease and desist" letter to Lucky Ace, and have some words with 888.com, since 888.com is clearly in some kind of business relationship with Lucky Ace.

I'll second that! Frankly this whole situation stinks and I really hope that eCOGRA and 888 step up to the plate and do what needs be done to clean it up. I can understand that they might not want to do that publicly but still, get it done!

 

[winna12]

I was told earlier in week by luckyace support to send a email to [email protected],i did this and received following email -

Dear xxx,

Thank you for contacting the Management of the Support Department. My name is Helmut and I am replying to you on behalf of the Manager.

xxxxx, I reviewed your email and noticed that you are referring to an issue with our Operations Department. I have therefore forwarded your Email to the Management of this Department and you will receive a reply within the next 48-72 hours.

I would like to thank you for your time and patience.

If you require further assistance in this or any other matter, please feel free to contact us.

Kind regards,
Helmut
Supervisor
Member Support Department
[email protected]
www.888.com

Today i received following reply-

Dear xxx,

This is David H from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises
(Gibraltar) Ltd. Cassava Enterprises manages operational services for LuckyAceCasino.com. I am contacting you with regards to your account with the username xxxxxx.

Please be advised, I have passed your message over to the relevant personnel and you can expect a response between 24 - 48 hours.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

Regards,

David H
Operations Department
Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd
[email protected]

Also received my initial deposit back yesterday.

 

[RobWin]

I'll second that! Frankly this whole situation stinks and I really hope that eCOGRA and 888 step up to the plate and do what needs be done to clean it up. I can understand that they might not want to do that publicly but still, get it done!

Could be some great Press & PR though for eCOGRA to actually do it publicly and reaffirm to everyone that they are the fair gaming advocate...

From the eCOGRA website:

Prompt payments, safe storage of information, random games, honest advertising, and responsible behavior by the online casino and poker room operator are the primary concerns of every player, so that means they are also the primary concerns of eCOGRA, "eCommerce and Online Gaming Regulation and Assurance".

Our goal is to deliver all of these player imperatives at quality sites carrying the eCOGRA “Safe and Fair” Seal. Be sure to look for it, everytime you play. If it’s not there, your site may not be safe. Independent Directors are solely responsible for determining which software developers are admitted as eCOGRA members, and which operators qualify for the eCOGRA Seal. And, in the unlikely event a problem develops while playing at an approved site, eCOGRA has developed a first class, fast, free player dispute mediation service. Additionally, we offer you a Fair Gaming Advocate, accessible on the eCOGRA site.

Your Advocate is available to represent you as a player, designed to be your voice and assure your questions, concerns and queries receive attention in a prompt, professional manner.


Play without worry only where you see this Seal

Looks like eCOGRA may have a law suit pending...

 

[RobWin]

This is simply amazing to me that this bunch continues to steal and use the eCOGRA seal as it still remains up on their website and it's so blatantly misleading too...

Someone new to online gaming would look at this and just assume that they have been certified by eCOGRA...this is so bad for this industry and eCOGRA needs to set an example with this bunch by suing their asses off for stealing copyright and false advertising where they say "we comply with all guidelines published by eCOGRA"...what a crock of S**t that is...

Also if you notice the eCOGRA symbol seal it clearly states on it "eCOGRA Casino"

 

[maxd]

I don't mean to divert the topic here but I have a favour to ask. Here's the problem:

I'm getting deluged with PABs on this Lucky Ace thing and most of them are rubbish:

- they almost all come from people who have only signed up here to do their PAB.

- often the player's haven't bothered to comply with the PAB requirements, in particular they haven't bothered to contact the casino to resolve their issues.

- many don't even know what the PAB is because they say "I deposited and won. Please ensure they pay me."

So what I'm thinking is that some joker probably posted about our PAB thing on a message board somewhere and it's driving all these dud claimants our way.

So, and the favour I ask, if anyone knows where this was done please let me know. Either I'll get the Admins there to post the necessary caveats, or you can pass them along yourself, namely:

Before submitting your claim, please check the following:

* You have done as much as possible to resolve this problem on your own.
...
* If you choose to publicize your complaint in the public fora, we reserve the right to disregard it. Making complaints a public debated issue will usually derail most arbitrations.
* If you joined the casino in question through an affiliate site or portal, please contact the portal as well to inform them that you are having problems.

 

[Roar]

This is simply amazing to me that this bunch continues to steal and use the eCOGRA seal as it still remains up on their website and it's so blatantly misleading too...

I got my initial deposit back today but the winnings remain outstanding. I want to say more about this situation but want my winnings first and foremost.

eCOGRA should act swiftly and without delay in order to protect it's integrity.

 

[RobWin]

I got my initial deposit back today but the winnings remain outstanding. I want to say more about this situation but want my winnings first and foremost.

eCOGRA should act swiftly and without delay in order to protect it's integrity.

Well I'm glad to hear that you did at least get your deposit back and I also think that eCOGRA needs to act swiftly and not let this one linger, that's for sure...

 

[same_old]

what may be happening is most of the PAB'S maybe from people that hold account's with 888.com and then opened a account with luckyacecasino to find out luckyace already have the same client log file and personal details for all customers,and when they sign up to luckyace they just match the details and actually see if this person is a bonus abuser, fish, high roller etc..
then act accordingly,

888.com's bonus of $200 is very attractive for the bonus abuser so when seeing a new casino like luckyace that is offering the same attractive bonus, we will then see the bonus abuserscome out of the wood work..
888.com being around as long as it has im sure have a big list of bonus abuser's and other un wanted client's....
all speculation here but does add up

 

[jetset]

I'd like to know what eCOGRA thinks about this casino using their site approved seal and if they plan on taking any action against LuckyAceCasino for blatantly stealing it ?

Judging by Max's comment, this operation is not entitled to carry the eCOGRA seal, having not been submitted for inspection and monitoring or accepting the authority of that body. That said, as a white label I think it's a fine point and one that will need addressing if 888.com (which does have eCOGRA sealing) is going to launch more of these white labels that can result in this sort of trainsmash.

If Luckyace is claiming eCOGRA approval and displaying the seal under these circumstances it's a blatant deception added to the other suspicious things going on here, and I have drawn the attention of eCOGRA to this fact.

888.com needs to get on the ball fast with this issue.

 

[maxd]

LATER: What follows is the original text of this post and you'll see if you read the thread that it caused no small amount of furor. Rightly so, I screwed up. Please see this post for the new improved take on this issue.
---------------

It's becoming clear to me that LuckyAce has, or is in the process of, returning a lot of player deposits and closing their accounts (though not necessarily in that order).

While this may not be the sort of thing that makes the casino very popular it is well within their rights to do so. Every player at Lucky Ace agrees to the following points in their

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

when they sign on:

In the event that the Company believes a user is abusing or attempting to abuse a bonus or other promotion, or is likely to benefit through abuse or lack of good faith from a gaming policy adopted by the Company, then the Company may, at its sole discretion, deny, withhold or withdraw from any user any bonus or promotion, or rescind any policy with respect to that user, either temporarily or permanently, or terminate that user's access to the Service and/or block that user's account.

So, if you receive one of those "goodbye" letters AND you get your deposit back then you have no grounds to complain and certainly no grounds for a PAB. LATER: Let me elaborate a little. I would say you do have grounds to be pissed off and point them out for their lousy actions but according to the terms of the player agreement at LuckyAce you don't technically have a grievance you can bring before them.

So let me spell this out: if your Lucky Ace account is closed and you get your deposit back then they are doing exactly what you agreed to let them do and there are no grounds for a PAB.

If they withhold all of your monies or simply aren't paying you then yes, there's ground for complaint and you're welcome to do so as long as you comply fully with the rules of the PAB process. In particular this means that you have read and respected Rule #1 of the PAB process namely you have "done as much as possible to resolve this problem on your own."

That latter bit means that you have repeatedly tried to contact them regarding some grave issue, such as non-payment, and after some reasonable period of time -- say 5 business days or more -- you have received no meaningful response.

What really frosts my muffins is that a number of the PAB applicants haven't done doodly to pursue their issues on their own. In some cases they received their "goodbye" letter and the very same day they do the PAB without ever having done a blessed thing on their own. It's as if someone somewhere told then "hey, don't like what you're getting -- or think you might get! -- from LuckyAce? No worries, just sign up and PAB at Casinomeister!" This is very bad advice! And quite likely to grievously annoy the one person who will be processing your PAB, namely me.

Make no mistake, I am singularly underwhelmed with the things Lucky Ace is doing and even less impressed with the things they are failing to do -- like provide a contact person or representative to help us deal with this situation -- but that doesn't make them a Rogue casino, nor does it validate a tsunami of spurious PABs. Sadly all it really means is that you might want to consider the wisdom of taking your action elsewhere.

 

[maxd]

Judging by Max's comment, this operation is not entitled to carry the eCOGRA seal ....

Just for the record I need to be clear about this: I don't know for a fact whether Lucky Ace is entitled to sport the eCOGRA seals or not. Apparently they think they are (per their communications with GrandMaster). It was my impression that the eCOGRA rep didn't think so, both from her reply to a third party which indicated that eCOGRA doesn't handle issues for non-eCOGRA casinos and from my own exchange with her wherein I alerted her to the presence of the eCOGRA seal at the LuckyAce site.

What we have is the confusing situation where they are not on the Accredited list at eCOGRA yet they continue to sport the eCOGRA seal, word their

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

web page as if they are associated with eCOGRA, and claim to be "covered by 888.com's ecogra membership."

My sincere hope is that the coming few days will see this mess cleared up by the parties involved, namely eCOGRA and 888 Holdings. I'm assuming that LuckyAce has and is continuing to pursue their own agenda.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I suggest that all these complainants go to eCogra first, before deluging Max with PAB's. If there is a problem with them displaying the seal, this will galvanise eCogra into action, as they will see how big a problem this is.

If the relationship with 888.com is not clear in the terms and conditions, then they should not be calling players "bonus abusers" purely on the basis of them having played at 888.com before. They must have proper grounds for claiming "bonus abuse", such as players mathematically manipulating the SUB, cashing out, and then moving on to the next "white label" to attempt the same.
I suspect this new casino, and it's bonus, have appeared on some bonus whoring site, and that after this, someone else has posted about the Casinomeister PAB service, but not about eCogra. This would cause these players to use PAB without first attempting to use eCogra. Given that the seal is displayed, these players should be assuming eCogra deal with such issues until they hear otherwise.

If I find out where, I'll let Max know.

 

[maxd]

LATER: What follows is the original text of this post. As mentioned above I was barking up the wrong tree. Please see this post for the new improved take on this issue.
---------------

Just thought I'd let you know... my orignal deposit arrived back into my bank account today.

As explained above this means there are no grounds on which to pursue your PAB. I'll be marking it "RESOLVED" and will consider it a closed case.

 

[Roar]

I suggest that all these complainants go to eCogra first, before deluging Max with PAB's. If there is a problem with them displaying the seal, this will galvanise eCogra into action, as they will see how big a problem this is.

vwm eCOGRA have already written in concise terms that the Luck Ace Casino site is not a member of their programme. That avenue of appeal for the present minute is closed.

 

[tsj]

As explained above this means there are no grounds on which to pursue your PAB. I'll be marking it "RESOLVED" and will consider it a closed case.

Ok mate... no problem... and thanks anyway

 

[Fender1]

Shame on you Max. If thats the best you can do, you have no right to be the complaints mamager. Move over and let someone with some balls do the job

Here we have a case of blatant systemic abuse, by a casino towards a large number of its players

This is NOT the case that the casino beleives that its bonus policy has been abused. This IS a case of a casino attempting to steal players winnings on a large scale, as bad as anything I have encountered in all my years in the business.

And when players turn to this site for help, you turn your back on them.

 

[Roar]

It's becoming clear to me that LuckyAce has, or is in the process of, returning a lot of player deposits and closing their accounts (though not necessarily in that order).

While this may not be the sort of thing that makes the casino very popular it is well within their rights to do so. Every player at Lucky Ace agrees to the following points in their

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

when they sign on:



So, if you receive one of those "goodbye" letters AND you get your deposit back then you have no grounds to complain and certainly no grounds for a PAB.

So let me spell this out: if your Lucky Ace account is closed and you get your deposit back then they are doing exactly what you agreed to let them do and there are no grounds for a PAB.

If they withhold all of your monies or simply aren't paying you then yes, there's ground for complaint and you're welcome to do so as long as you comply fully with the rules of the PAB process. In particular this means that you have read and respected Rule #1 of the PAB process namely you have "done as much as possible to resolve this problem on your own."

That latter bit means that you have repeatedly tried to contact them regarding some grave issue, such as non-payment, and after some reasonable period of time -- say 5 business days or more -- you have received no meaningful response.

What really frosts my muffins is that a number of the PAB applicants haven't done doodly to pursue their issues on their own. In some cases they received their "goodbye" letter and the very same day they do the PAB without ever having done a blessed thing on their own. It's as if someone somewhere told then "hey, don't like what you're getting -- or think you might get! -- from LuckyAce? No worries, just sign up and PAB at Casinomeister!" This is very bad advice! And quite likely to grievously annoy the one person who will be processing your PAB, namely me.

Make no mistake, I am singularly underwhelmed with the things Lucky Ace is doing and even less impressed with the things they are failing to do -- like provide a contact person or representative to help us deal with this situation -- but that doesn't make them a Rogue casino, nor does it validate a tsunami of spurious PABs. Sadly all it really means is that you might want to consider the wisdom of taking your action elsewhere.

"Quote:
In the event that the Company believes a user is abusing or attempting to abuse a bonus or other promotion, or is likely to benefit through abuse or lack of good faith from a gaming policy adopted by the Company, then the Company may, at its sole discretion, deny, withhold or withdraw from any user any bonus or promotion, or rescind any policy with respect to that user, either temporarily or permanently, or terminate that user's access to the Service and/or block that user's account."


With great respect Max I can not agree with your interpretation with the above quoted T+C with respect to those players who have completed wagering and a withdrawal awaiting receipt of deposit and winnings.

I have bolded the relevant terms for clarity.

This particular T+C can only be applied in a present or future tense with respect to a Players wagering activity. These T+Cs can not be applied retrospectively to play at the Casino. If the T+Cs were intended to be applied retrospectively then the word(s) has/have would be required to give that meaning and intent.

I respectfully ask you to reconsider your stated position above in the light of what IMHO is the most appropriate interpretation and meaning conveyed by the subject T+Cs.

 

[maxd]

LATER: What follows is the original text of this post. As mentioned above I was barking up the wrong tree. Please see this post for the new improved take on this issue.
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Ok mate... no problem... and thanks anyway

Sorry I couldn't help more but when they pull the "bonus abuser" card AND refund your deposit my hands are tied.

I'm not saying I think they're great guys for doing this but I am saying their actions are justified per the terms they offer and you agreed to when you signed on there. It's a bummer but it is what it is.

 

[maxd]

LATER: What follows is the original text of this post. As mentioned above I was barking up the wrong tree. Please see this post for the new improved take on this issue.
---------------

I respectfully ask you to reconsider your stated position above in the light of what IMHO is the most appropriate interpretation and meaning conveyed by the subject T+Cs.

And I respectfully decline. Aside from the fact that we're getting into serious hair-splitting here -- as in you can choose one interpretation while I might choose another. Are either of us lawyers? Is this a court? -- you might want to note the following from those same T&Cs:

15. Duration and Termination
...
ii. We may terminate this Agreement and your account (including your username and password) immediately without notice:
1. if for any reason we decide to discontinue to provide the Service;
2. if we believe that you have breached any of the terms of this Agreement;
3. if your use of the Service has been in any way improper or breaches the spirit of this Agreement; or
4. for any other reason we see fit. Save for as otherwise provided, on termination of this Agreement any balance in your account will be returned to you within a reasonable time of your request, subject always to our right to deduct any amounts owed by you to us.

The way I read this they can close your account, take "any amounts owed by you to us" which could be taken to mean the winnings and the bonus, refund your deposit and send you on your way. Which is what they've done.

I'm telling you that there is no point in pursuing a case that they will tell me is invalid because of their T&Cs. After all, I'd be appealing to them for resolution not some disinterested third party. Frankly if you want to debate this further I suggest you engage a lawyer and take it up with the casino. As far as I'm concerned it's "case closed" for the reasons given.

 

[Fender1]

You could blacklist them for starters. And there is plenty you COULD do if you wanted to.

Its time to stand up and be counted Max

CASINO WATCHDOG AND PLAYER ADVOCATE SINCE 1998

Come on man, you can do better than this.

 

[maxd]

LATER: What follows is the original text of this post. As mentioned above I was barking up the wrong tree. Please see this post for the new improved take on this issue.
---------------

Shame on you Max. If thats the best you can do, you have no right to be the complaints mamager. Move over and let someone with some balls do the job.

Balls?!? What have balls got to do with this? Have you read my posts here? Do you have any idea what's actually going on?

Am I not the one juggling the 20+ complaints (many of which are invalid because the person didn't bother to read the rules for submitting one in the first place), trying to get eCOGRA and/or 888 to step up to the plate, pressing the so-called 888 rep here to take some action, and working my weekends (basically for free) to get this mess sorted out? Not to mention all the other non-LuckyAce issues on my plate. And you have the brass to say I have no balls?!?

Here's balls for you: players who agree to "we can rape you when and where we feel like it" Terms and Conditions simply in order to get a shot at a nice, fat, easy pickings bonus are fools! The casino always wins if they really want to play it that way and anyone who thinks differently is terminally naive. Yes, most casinos won't do what Lucky Ace is doing because their reputation would be shit if they did. That's a good thing and we should all play at those casinos. But when push comes to shove the T&Cs rule and here the T&Cs say "tough titty." End of story.

While we're on the subject of balls, how about we talk about what I can do to help this situation. I can recommend that Lucky Ace be black-listed for all the shit they've pulled and if their contribution to this issue doesn't improve I intend to do just that. I can also suggest that a close, hard look be taken at 888's responsibility in all this and I intend to do that too. And I can be up-front and straight with these players about what their real chances are in terms of getting any satisfaction out of their grievances. Have done. And last but not least I can ask you for an apology for your possibly well meant but seriously misplaced criticism.

There, how's that for balls?

Come on man, you can do better than this.

My my, what an unpleasantly sanctimonious person you've managed to be. I may have found my first candidate for the "Ignore" filter.