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I hope this is outdated or not true...

Discussion in 'Ask the Meister' started by wanda5, Jul 31, 2003.

    Jul 31, 2003
  1. wanda5

    wanda5 Experienced Member

    lala land
    HI Mary,
    After going through reading about casinos online I found something that I could not even believe!This is what I copied & pasted... It should also be noted that PriceWaterhouseCoopers(PWC) only validates information provided by Mircogaming itself, and does not have access to the Random Number Generator itself. Consequently, PWC is confirming the Payout Ratio based only on Microgaming's own reports.
    IS THAT TRUE? This is where I found it: }}You must register/login in order to see the link.
  2. Jul 31, 2003
  3. jetset

    jetset RIP Brian CAG

    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Wanda5 I've been doing some work on this subject because there appear to be some player misconceptions about this payout percentages verification as carried out by international audit group Price Waterhouse Coopers.

    My interest stems mainly from the fact that I am informing myself about eCOGRA, and outcomes based software verifications is handled in this way.

    In fact, every transaction in a participating casino is reported as it occurs on a PwC server at the same time as it reports to the gaming servers.

    There then follow a professional level series of checks,cross-checks, calculations, balances and even trend analyses leading to a final and independent balance before PwC will sign off on the certification.

    I hope that PwC will issue a statement showing exactly what is involved in this rigorous process, because from what I have been told there seems to be little opportunity for "fiddling" in the process.
  4. Sep 10, 2003
  5. galaxy

    galaxy Dormant account

    I can't understand eCOGRA.

    Maybe I'm covering old ground.. but I might as well make my case anyway.

    Alright eCOGRA seems to be another non-profit organisation which attempts to ensure high levels of standards for its members, with perhaps direct feedback testing or results and fairness from PWC. Great.

    eCOGRA have only gone and set themselves up in the UK, and actually in Great Britain, London, England. Is that supposed to give it extra credibility?

    WTH !

    Just to recap... the 1845 Gaming Act still applies to Great Britain.

    In the last 1990s, bookmakers/bookies/sportsbooks left Great Britain en masse and set up internet operations in offshore jurisdictions to take advantage of a much lower duty rate and other tax advantages. Internet sports betting was actually legal in Britain under the 1845 Gaming Act - and still is - but it was purely financial competition reasons why they left to go offshore, to places like Alderney, Gibraltar, Antigua ect..

    Many still kept their other bricks and mortar bookmaking operations in Great Britain... but still continued to pay the 9% duty in GB, whilst their offshore internet operations benefitted from much lower rates of duty and bigger profits.

    Then in a deal struck with the British Treasury circa 2000, it was agreed that the British rate of duty would be cut from 9% to 0%, in exchange for a 15% tax on bookmakers annual profits. Bookmakers felt the 0% duty would herald a new age of gambling and most took the deal - which was on condition that to benefit from it, they had to bring back their internet sportsbook setups back to GB mainland. Sure enough, the 0% player duty helped bring a new boom and overall profits were up.

    However, interactive gaming, games of chance, are not legal under the 1845 Gaming Act. So the bookmakers' online casino operations they had set up whilst offshore, still remain offshore. It is illegal to run an online casino from inside Great Britain, because under the current law, all "gaming" has to be done on licensed premises. Therefore absolutely no operator can get a licence for an online casino in Great Britain.... for the moment.

    The process for a new Gaming Bill of Great Britain has been underway for many years now, with many important wide-ranging studies, open studies between all members of society who have concerns or are pro-gaming, and notable reviews(the Budd Review, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport review ect..) and in July the Draft Gaming Bill was drawn up and presented to the British Government.

    Unless there is going to be a delay, the information suggests they are planning to launch the new Gaming Bill for GB in 2005.

    This new Gaming Bill will allow for online casinos to be legalised, licensed and regulated in Great Britain. Without going in to all of the details here (I will provide the links), it will make Great Britain the foremost online gaming jurisdiction in the world, in terms of fairness for players, and regulation.

    No other jurisdiction can compete with the measures which are set to go in to the new Gaming Bill.

    Thats why I believe this eCOGRA outfit to be a last chance saloon for the offshore jurisdictions - an attempt to bring more confidence to offshore interactive casino gaming operators.

    How can offshore operators possibly compete with Great Britain if and when the new Gaming Bill is passed?

    Alright - perhaps offshore will allow US citizens access (when maybe they shouldn't)...

    but with the British Gaming Bill, players will have the assurance of a completely fair, thouroughly regulated, online casio gaming industry.

    Just 3 of the main proposals in short with the new Gaming Bill of Great Britain:

    A Gaming Commision for Great Britain - a powerful regulator with far reaching powers.

    RNG gaming software systems inspected and tested by The Gaming Commision of Great Britain.

    Kitemarks for British licensed and regulated
    internet casinos.

    This is not going to be an Australia experiment with some territories under the Gaming Bill and others not - its planned for whole of Great Britain.

    With such safeguards and strict regulation in place, GB will be the safest place to game with internet casinos in the whole world. Players are not relying on some non-profit organisation, who charge a fee to their casino operator members for their very survival... players will have the assurance of strict licensing and regulation and fair play from and the credibility which goes with of Great Britain government - a jurisdiction of 60 million people.

    If any casino dared to step out of line then GB would not be bullied like many other regulators offshore have been by corrupt casino operators - GB is far to powerful - and would not hesitate to impose punishing financial penalites or even legal action.

    This eCOGRA seems to me to be a last ditch attempt for the offshore casinos to get some footing to compete with Great Britain, for the operators who do not come here, or whose applications are not accepted/passed. However, even the eCOGRA plans are still light years behind the proposals and safeguards and regulation GB plans.

    How will offshore be able to compete?? HOW!??

    Just as the old British sportsbooks came running back when GB cut duty to 0%, they took the 15% tax on profits, as they rightly calculated that turnover would be vastly increased.

    Surely it will be the same when online gaming is legalised in Great Britain. The major casino operators will know that being licensed and regulated actually inside Great Britain.. whilst it forces them to play fair and not cut any more corners.. turnover will increase because players will be much more comfortable playing in a GB licensed and regulated online casino.. with stringent regulation for fairness and player money safeguards so no casino can cut and run or cheat ....

    The fact that online casinos are licensed and regulated in a major country like Great Britain, well I don't doubt that the major operators will have done their sums and calculated the likelihood of this fact bringing a new generation of players in to online casinos, who otherwise would not have be so confident with offshore jurisdictions.

    Well I'm not checking this post over - just had to something to say so i said it.

    re new British Gaming Bill

    You must register/login in order to see the link. (in PDF) it goes at least up to chapter 30 but I believe it requires new pages to be input via browser.

    The new Gaming Bill for Great Britain is coming... and many operators fear it imo. Thats why eCOGRA is being set up, but its too little, too late, and simply just can not compete with a major government who plan to legalise and bring strong regulation to online casino gaming.

    The sooner the better.
  6. Sep 12, 2003
  7. mary

    mary Dormant account

    To be honest, I have no clue what eCOGRA is actually doing. They will be presenting at the Global Gaming Expo, so maybe I can find out.
  8. Sep 14, 2003
  9. jetset

    jetset RIP Brian CAG

    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Yeah, I have to say that as far as the player community is concerned eCOGRA do not appear to be the world's best communicators.

    However, my understanding is that there is quite a lot happening behind the scenes, mainly in regard to testing casinos that have applied for the eCOGRA seal.

    I have been told that Pricewaterhouse Coopers representatives visit each applicant's operation and conduct exhaustive searches (one source compared it to an ISO 9000 inspection) of everything from financial systems to Support personnel training, and that the probity checks are equally comprehensive.

    It is a pity that they did not institute a communications program and dialogue with the players right at the start, but perhaps that is part of their plan once they have members casinos squared away.

    I also understand an important announcement regarding player compliant structures is to be made soon - perhaps they will use Vegas and GGE for that purpose.

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