How much money do casino lose when you self excluded?.

New Casino Brand!

Race Casino Logo
Fast Pay'n Play Casino from L&L Europe..
Race Casino Review

winbigger

Banned User
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Location
london
If ukgc did not create the rule do you think any bookies would of made it complusary.

What do you think the effect of permanent self exclusion are to the bookies.

When you self exclude do the bookies feel angry they have losted money?.

My friend works in gambling industry he says when ever someone self excluded the management are angry they lose money and customer for life.
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Their management will be even angrier if they mishandle it and get slapped with a multi million quid fine.

Suppose the bigger question is why companies, not just casinos, appear to be geared up to attracting new customers, not retaining existing: I read somewhere that it costs 5 times more to attract new.

The compliance costs and the increased financial risk of penalties are probably what scares them more than losing a few here and there
 

bebo67

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Location
Ontario Canada
Their management will be even angrier if they mishandle it and get slapped with a multi million quid fine.

Suppose the bigger question is why companies, not just casinos, appear to be geared up to attracting new customers, not retaining existing: I read somewhere that it costs 5 times more to attract new.

The compliance costs and the increased financial risk of penalties are probably what scares them more than losing a few here and there
Trust me marketing is through the wall expensive, and probably eats up 65% of costs.
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
Their management will be even angrier if they mishandle it and get slapped with a multi million quid fine.

Suppose the bigger question is why companies, not just casinos, appear to be geared up to attracting new customers, not retaining existing: I read somewhere that it costs 5 times more to attract new.

The compliance costs and the increased financial risk of penalties are probably what scares them more than losing a few here and there
You hit the nail on the head.

You can send hundreds of depositors to a program - All they want is a constant stream of New Depositors.

They hardly ever take care of the existing players they have. They'd rather you send them 10 depositors who spend and average of 50 a month than look after the player that drops 10k in a month. I've experienced it personally.

This is one of the reasons most of the white labels and fly by nights close so quick - they absolutely no idea of retention or how the industry / players operate at large.

Coupled with their greed and passing their fees onto everybody (Players and Affiliates) - They end up in a no win situation. Players dont feel valued and their partners feel ripped off - so they all move on.

Self Exclusions cost the industry a MASSIVE amount of money. A lot of them are done due to casinos frustrating the shit out of players while I'd say the lesser percentage are 100% gambling issues.

You can only look to the stunts 32Red have pulled to gauge how valuable those players are to the industry.

Nate
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
You hit the nail on the head.

You can send hundreds of depositors to a program - All they want is a constant stream of New Depositors.

They hardly ever take care of the existing players they have. They'd rather you send them 10 depositors who spend and average of 50 a month than look after the player that drops 10k in a month. I've experienced it personally.

This is one of the reasons most of the white labels and fly by nights close so quick - they absolutely no idea of retention or how the industry / players operate at large.

Coupled with their greed and passing their fees onto everybody (Players and Affiliates) - They end up in a no win situation. Players dont feel valued and their partners feel ripped off - so they all move on.

Self Exclusions cost the industry a MASSIVE amount of money. A lot of them are done due to casinos frustrating the shit out of players while I'd say the lesser percentage are 100% gambling issues.

You can only look to the stunts 32Red have pulled to gauge how valuable those players are to the industry.

Nate
I really don’t get it.

Plus, we have casinos complaining about tighter regulations and obligations, and associated costs: Makes sense that if you have a high retention rate, have a history with that player and are able to gauge what their norm is, they are inherently less riskier than Uncle Bob who immediately starts lumping 5k a day from the word go. Plus, you know what they like so you can tailor towards their likes and ergo, more money as they don’t feel the urge to stray to another.
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
I really don’t get it.

Plus, we have casinos complaining about tighter regulations and obligations, and associated costs: Makes sense that if you have a high retention rate, have a history with that player and are able to gauge what their norm is, they are inherently less riskier than Uncle Bob who immediately starts lumping 5k a day from the word go. Plus, you know what they like so you can tailor towards their likes and ergo, more money as they don’t feel the urge to stray to another.
All they want to see is LESS back to the player. It's as simple as that. Look at how bonuses have become a fantasy at online casinos.

Half of the I-Gaming reps / affiliate managers or casino managers probably haven't even played a slot.

Nate
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
I cant get to grips with the casino industry either. I'm extremely selective about who I send customers to now, various things dictate if I push a casino or not, but one of the highest factors is customer retention. When I first started I've sent as many as 100 FTD's to a casino in the first few weeks, and they didn't deposit again after the first one. I just can't get my head round why they spend money on new customers and do nothing to retain them, ffs even just send a 50% offer close to payday or something.
I've joined casinos, made 2 or 3 deposits and not had a single email from them for 2-3 years afterwards. VeraJohn a prime example, put about £10k in deposits to them a couple of years back, haven't deposited there for around 18 months, and haven't had a single email to tempt me back. Not one. From a customer point of view, they clearly don't want me, so I'll go elsewhere. From an affiliate point of view, it's hard enough to get customers as it is, why would I waste my time sending new players to them, knowing I'm likely to make £10-20 from them max.
 

Jono777

Meister Member
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
...to back up Col's point above and this one really, REALLY shocked me.

I played and deposited at LEAST once a week at 32 Red since (as best I recall) 2006!

Granted the deposits were small (25-50) but they were very regular, I had a good relationship with the casino and Mark on here and emails were regular, along with offers up until the last year or so,

As of mid 2018, I started using VS due to the providers available and a poor run at 32 Red so my deposits stopped more or less.

Not once have I had an email, PM, message, phone call, anything to ask why I'd 'disappeared', nothing at all.

Now I may have got this all wrong and I meant nothing to them, however if I ran a casino and all of a sudden, although a small fish a player of over 10 years vanished, I'd be chasing them.

I'm just one example, imagine my scenario x 100 players, that alone would be lost deposits of around £250,000 (hope my math doesn't fail me here :p)
 

Harry_BKK

Meister Member
CAG
mm1
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
All they want to see is LESS back to the player. It's as simple as that. Look at how bonuses have become a fantasy at online casinos.

Half of the I-Gaming reps / affiliate managers or casino managers probably haven't even played a slot.

Nate
You have to admit though that the general player profile has changed too over the years.

The veteran casino players are still quite a faithful bunch who stay with one or a few casinos.

The world and our lives have changed a lot though in the past two decades, we have now a lot choice for things instead of just a few options, and that applies also to casinos. Hence, millennials who grew up with that mentality will simply not stick to a single or a few casinos. They run to the next place the soon they see an offer that is 1% (one percent) better.

I could see it on one affiliate site I wrote before as I had full access to WordPress. The soon I had some special FS offer up, I could see the clicks going through the roof. If some measly FS can do that, imagine what people do for an extra bonus.

To this day, I have rarely been disappointed by my regular hangouts. But then I spent time to build up friendly personal relationships be it with a VIP manager or just the normal customer support agents. Who does that nowadays? Casinos are opening left and right, and the players will run to the next joint simply for a SUB before they are quickly on to the next.

I have not opened a new casino account in about 3 years, just sayin' :)
 

Borgie

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
I too have attained VIP status at several joints, albeit in this case they often state 'Oh, here comes the Very Irritating Prick' :eek2:

Needless to say, many casinos have foregone trying to retain me :(
I hear they printed up most "UN" wanted customer posters for you and shared them. They will match your I D to.them and out you will go :D:p:cheers:
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
You have to admit though that the general player profile has changed too over the years.

The veteran casino players are still quite a faithful bunch who stay with one or a few casinos.

The world and our lives have changed a lot though in the past two decades, we have now a lot choice for things instead of just a few options, and that applies also to casinos. Hence, millennials who grew up with that mentality will simply not stick to a single or a few casinos. They run to the next place the soon they see an offer that is 1% (one percent) better.

I could see it on one affiliate site I wrote before as I had full access to WordPress. The soon I had some special FS offer up, I could see the clicks going through the roof. If some measly FS can do that, imagine what people do for an extra bonus.

To this day, I have rarely been disappointed by my regular hangouts. But then I spent time to build up friendly personal relationships be it with a VIP manager or just the normal customer support agents. Who does that nowadays? Casinos are opening left and right, and the players will run to the next joint simply for a SUB before they are quickly on to the next.

I have not opened a new casino account in about 3 years, just sayin' :)
I was very loyal to Videoslots and Casumo over around a 2 year period. From memory i think last year I deposited over £50k at videoslots and had a substantial loss there, around the same at Casumo, although it was a profit there. Neither ever got in touch about a VIP scheme, and neither gave a shit when i closed my account at both. No point being loyal to a casino when they show none to you.
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Bad example, but the only casino who contacted me to ask ‘why aren’t you playing here anymore?’ were Betat. Then followed up asking what they could do to get me to play as often as I used to do. Shame that they went down the toilet but ho hum.

Down to three casinos now and can’t see that list increasing, only decreasing.
 

Mr_Slot5

Experienced Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
I really don’t get it.

Plus, we have casinos complaining about tighter regulations and obligations, and associated costs: Makes sense that if you have a high retention rate, have a history with that player and are able to gauge what their norm is, they are inherently less riskier than Uncle Bob who immediately starts lumping 5k a day from the word go. Plus, you know what they like so you can tailor towards their likes and ergo, more money as they don’t feel the urge to stray to another.
In pretty much any business your returning, loyal and regular customers are pretty much your bread and butter- as a general rule you don't piss them off.

From reading around on this forum etc it seems that many casinos aren't founded by people who have sound business knowledge. I think many of them were set up to make a quick buck- and it shows.

Either that or they are relying on compulsive/problem gamblers to carry on depositing, even if their general experience is sub par. Therefore, from a casino perspective this is the 'cake and eat it scenario'. They get the compulsive gamblers plugging away whilst tempting new sign ups with better perks.
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
I was very loyal to Videoslots and Casumo over around a 2 year period. From memory i think last year I deposited over £50k at videoslots and had a substantial loss there, around the same at Casumo, although it was a profit there. Neither ever got in touch about a VIP scheme, and neither gave a shit when i closed my account at both. No point being loyal to a casino when they show none to you.
It seems crazy to me that some casinos can take customers making 5 figure annual deposits like that for granted and then complain about how hard everything is. Like they just deserve millions of dollars to fall into their lap for existing.

In pretty much any business your returning, loyal and regular customers are pretty much your bread and butter- as a general rule you don't piss them off.

From reading around on this forum etc it seems that many casinos aren't founded by people who have sound business knowledge. I think many of them were set up to make a quick buck- and it shows.

Either that or they are relying on compulsive/problem gamblers to carry on depositing, even if their general experience is sub par. Therefore, from a casino perspective this is the 'cake and eat it scenario'. They get the compulsive gamblers plugging away whilst tempting new sign ups with better perks.
Yeah, it definitely feels sometimes like casinos only want the most ignorant, addicted players who apparently have at least tens of thousands of dollars to drop without a single complaint. Yeah those customers are valuable, but there are very few of them so you might as well do a good job serving your other customers, make a bit of profit off of them (which adds up over a large customer base), and grow your business's reputation - especially when the per player overhead is pretty low since there's no physical building and most things except customer service are automated.

Honestly I think a lot of casinos just don't really have any respect for their players or their intelligence. So how they see it, if you put up your advertisements, host the casino games, and throw up a few deposit bonuses on the website, the players will just cycle through on their own. If they stop playing or burn out, more idiots/players will come to replace them. If they complain or expect anything more, then they aren't worth the effort anyways, so who cares?

Maybe that works for the giant sportsbooks who can benefit from advertising at scale and take advantage of players who don't know better. But almost everyone tries to follow the exact same business model, and if it doesn't work, it's anyone's fault but their own. How many industries are there where someone says to themselves, "I'm going to start a business that does the exact same thing as all the other businesses but I'm going to call mine Super Mega Luck Casino so players will flock in thinking they're going to win but then they lose and I get rich."

Edit: Nobody better steal my idea for Super Mega Luck Casino. I was already disappointed to learn that my idea for a casino called "No Bonus Casino" already existed.
 
Last edited:

BosjeR

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2005
Location
Sweden
A lot of assumed truths in this thread, and just out of curiousity, from all of you that complain about not being contacted, did you tick the ‘contact me with promotional offers’ box?
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
...to back up Col's point above and this one really, REALLY shocked me.

I played and deposited at LEAST once a week at 32 Red since (as best I recall) 2006!

Granted the deposits were small (25-50) but they were very regular, I had a good relationship with the casino and Mark on here and emails were regular, along with offers up until the last year or so,

As of mid 2018, I started using VS due to the providers available and a poor run at 32 Red so my deposits stopped more or less.

Not once have I had an email, PM, message, phone call, anything to ask why I'd 'disappeared', nothing at all.

Now I may have got this all wrong and I meant nothing to them, however if I ran a casino and all of a sudden, although a small fish a player of over 10 years vanished, I'd be chasing them.

I'm just one example, imagine my scenario x 100 players, that alone would be lost deposits of around £250,000 (hope my math doesn't fail me here :p)
A lot of this may be down to communication preferences set when you opened the account, or if not the reluctance of casinos to get caught in a situation whereby someone does their bollocks after a marketing e-mail. Maybe the player in question doesn't hit the threshold for offers? Who knows? But it's true, the e-mails from casinos I too have noticed are far less frequent than they once were.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
A lot of assumed truths in this thread, and just out of curiousity, from all of you that complain about not being contacted, did you tick the ‘contact me with promotional offers’ box?
What are the assumed truths? And yes I did.

I really think casinos under estimate the importance of retention. By far the best casino I have promoted was Skybet/Vegas. I had customers who were still depositing 6 or 7 years after they signed up, and percentage wise, massively ahead of anyone else for customers depositing monthly again and again. But they email you daily, and have offers like the prize machine, which, tbf, is pretty shit, unless you deposit a lot, you tend to get between 3 and 10 spins, or worse, a 10p Ted scratchcard, but it gets people to login daily, and if you get someone to login, then you have a chance of getting a deposit that day. Out of the casinos I was depositing a lot at last year they easily gave the best offers too. I was regularly getting 25/50% deposit offers up to £500, with 5x wagering. On a 25% that meant wagering your deposit + bonus once. No other casino came close to that.
 

johnnybagel

Full Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Location
Manchester
I was very loyal to Videoslots and Casumo over around a 2 year period. From memory i think last year I deposited over £50k at videoslots and had a substantial loss there, around the same at Casumo, although it was a profit there. Neither ever got in touch about a VIP scheme, and neither gave a shit when i closed my account at both. No point being loyal to a casino when they show none to you.
Wow. What do you have to do to get on a VIP scheme!?

I guess maybe a lot of people dip in and out of gambling too. I know people like that. They get into it for a month or so then get bored and maybe come back to it 6 months later or something. So they are like new customers every time
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top