Has a change of thinking taken the fun away?

ecopac

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Location
UK
So I have been thinking a lot lately about the whole 'experience' about playing online slots, and I can't help but think to myself that now I am a bit older, a bit wiser and using this forum with all this knowledge around that I have lost some of the excitement I used to get when I played a few years ago, and I was none the wiser to how slots actually work.

What I mean is this, years ago I had no idea about RTP, about how every spin and every bonus round and every 'Pick Me' bonus was already pre-determined before you pressed anything. Back then I genuinely thought it was all random. I was gutted when I picked the lowest amount of free spins from the 3 boxes (for example) and would think 'Ah damn I was going to pick that other one as well - I'll get it next time though' and I was equally elated when I picked the box with the highest number of free spins in, like it was my skill and judgement that got me those max amount of freespins.

Now it's like, whatever, it's all predetermined anyway, I'm now just playing for the wins, the cash, not so much the actual play time because it's nonsense really. I get a bonus and it pays rubbish, now it's like well that's the way it is - nothing I could have done would have changed that even if I could go back in time and pick another bonus, the outcome would be the same, I'll just grind it out until another one pops in.

I now play most of the slots where I can in Quick Spin mode, just to try and get to the result I went there for (whether it be an attempt to double or triple my deposit) - I can't see the point sitting there for hours watching pretty graphics when in the back of my head somethings saying 'well the result will be the same if you're in Quick Spin or not, so you might as well get to the result quicker and save a bit of time'.

Sometimes too much information about something isn't always a good thing perhaps, something has definitely changed in my mentality and the way I approach slots, and I really feel like my love affair with them is drawing to a close because I've lost that 'something' I had years ago....
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
Just because a return is pre-determined doesnt mean it isn't random or a surprise. Just because the machine knows what you're going to get once you hit spin doesn't mean YOU do, so it's all rather fun, whether you know that piece of info or not.

However, if you really do feel it isn't fun any more then it is probably time to hang up your hat. ..slots for making money is a terrible idea; it's meant to be entertainment.
 

ecopac

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Location
UK
Well, I don't use it as a means of 'making money' - it's not like it's my job or anything!
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
Everything you do in life is more fun in the beginning. As soon as it's a habit or something you are use to do it becomes boring.
Like a husband for example. He isn't that fun or handsome once you get to know his bad habits :rolleyes:

Also there is that first-fix thing like for any addiction. It's hard to get back to that excitement (not calling anyone addicted, just comparing)

That's why breaks from everything you enjoy to do or use (like a husband) is so important to take sometimes.
Then they are fun to play with again for a little while :)
 

ecopac

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Location
UK
Haha!!

Well to be fair, I think anyone who gambles and joins a forum to discuss it would be classed as addicted! :D

I think another way to put it is, years ago I used to think that if that third bonus symbol just dropped above or below the last reel I'd be like 'ah dammit' as I thought I had a genuine chance of it dropping in, like every reel dropped randomly. Now I know it's just playing games with me!
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
Haha!!

Well to be fair, I think anyone who gambles and joins a forum to discuss it would be classed as addicted! :D

I think another way to put it is, years ago I used to think that if that third bonus symbol just dropped above or below the last reel I'd be like 'ah dammit' as I thought I had a genuine chance of it dropping in, like every reel dropped randomly. Now I know it's just playing games with me!

Nah, I'm probably more addicted to the forum than gambling itself. Gambling to me is just a hobby that I like to take interest in.
 

ecopac

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Location
UK
Fair enough, my opinion is that if you join a forum to discuss gambling, you enjoy talking about it and spend a lot of time doing that, then you're addicted. Not saying it's a bad thing, an addiction isn't always bad if you've got it under control but personally I would never class gambling as a hobby.


Just my opinion though
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
I'm home full time, working from the computer; at any given time I have 5-15 tabs open and several forums, gambling or otherwise, like video games, books, comics, trivia, chats, emails, celebrities, news, facts etc...probably more to do with my ADD nature than addictions. I like things in 2 minute increments and blurbs and forums are great for that, same as slots and other types of games. I don't watch tv or hit bars, so this is one of a zillion time killers.
I have a gambling fun budget or entertainment budget..I gamble because I'm home, rather than on clothes, books, music, etc. when it's spent, it's done. I'm probably more addicted to reading; it's the one thing I do every day and all the time.
 

quber

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Location
Europe
Haha!!

Well to be fair, I think anyone who gambles and joins a forum to discuss it would be classed as addicted! :D

I think another way to put it is, years ago I used to think that if that third bonus symbol just dropped above or below the last reel I'd be like 'ah dammit' as I thought I had a genuine chance of it dropping in, like every reel dropped randomly. Now I know it's just playing games with me!

Every reel is randomly chosen, when you press the spin button the RNG picks 5 random numbers, one for each reel, then shows those randomly chosen reels to you so you do have a genuine chance of any symbol falling in.
 

JackTenOff

Webmaster
webmeister
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Location
uk
Fair enough, my opinion is that if you join a forum to discuss gambling, you enjoy talking about it and spend a lot of time doing that, then you're addicted. Not saying it's a bad thing, an addiction isn't always bad if you've got it under control but personally I would never class gambling as a hobby.


Just my opinion though

Is everyone who joins a wine club an alcoholic? :D
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
Personally, years and years ago, I started reading up/researching gambling - when I first thought I might like playing. I like to know what I'm spending my money on. I have a stack of books on poker, slots, comps, VP.... and learned most about online gambling here at CM - of course, Wizard of Odds is right up there, too. I think knowledge is a good thing. (Of course I researched 3 months before buying my last computer LOL)

Again, for me personally, the biggest thing that cooled my enthusiasm for online play was the online poker scandals, with software back doors (that had to be rooted out by players) and crooks getting away with it basically scott free. Now, in the back of my mind, there is always that little twinge of doubt as to whether games are fair online.

Of course, as a USA player, there's few choices as to where to play, plus the awful complications of getting money to 'there' and back 'here' since the UIGEA (and the large minimum WD limits and fees for most WD methods for us). All of which has taken most of the 'fun' out of playing online.

I rarely play online anymore. But I would love to! I would love to just sit down, deposit a few bucks (at my choice of casino), and play with confidence that the game is fair, and that my money won't end up confiscated by the feds.
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
PABnonaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Location
Haverhill
Frankly, I don't understand why people don't stop playing slots the moment they realize how absurdly high their hourly rate of loss is when playing slots.

I also think that the term Return to Player (RTP) should be replaced by the term Taken From Player (TFP).
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
I remember the day I turned cynical about playing slots. It was the day I read an article about how some symbols are weighted more heavily than others - and the ones that are weighted the highest are the two blank spots on either side of the Jackpot symbol. Up til then I used to think, "oh look how close I was, all three jackpot symbols are showing" lol...which is of course what they want you to think. ;)

Personally I think that knowing a bit more about how things work keeps me from throwing too much money away. It's my run of bad luck that's taken some of the fun out of it for me.
 

labeled

The eagle got Kevin!
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Location
Land of the "free"
I remember the day I turned cynical about playing slots. It was the day I read an article about how some symbols are weighted more heavily than others - and the ones that are weighted the highest are the two blank spots on either side of the Jackpot symbol. Up til then I used to think, "oh look how close I was, all three jackpot symbols are showing" lol...which is of course what they want you to think. ;)

Personally I think that knowing a bit more about how things work keeps me from throwing too much money away. It's my run of bad luck that's taken some of the fun out of it for me.

For some reason what got me was RTG's "random" jackpots - when I learned that your chances to trigger the random go up with bet size I was kind of like "mmhmm, so what else is random around here?"
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
I must admit in winter I would get all my tasks done and leave a few hours 'clear' for a session on the slots, and indeed look forward to it. My treat to myself - some like beer, or movies and I liked a lo-rolling punt. Recently however, despite having a decent amount of time to play and the funds, I have lost interest a little. In the last 7 days I've played £25 on DoA in 18p spins and lost it in 25 minutes. That's the lot. I spend more time on here indulging in voyeurism as regards the screenies of other players. Bonuses are also thin on the ground at the moment and the sun is shining so I am getting a little vitamin D rather than sitting in front of a screen.
In a way I'm quite glad because it still means after years of online slotting I don't actually have a desire or urge to play; that's when it becomes a different issue and the fun goes out of the window. I haven't played MG for a couple of months now and this is the first time in a few years I've done that. I don't miss the MG games. I have a small punt on Betsson and Nordicbet now and again which have all the games I require.

There does seem to be that 'little something' missing though I can't quite identify it. All I know is that wherever you play the games get repetitive and one gets too familiar with them, "oh! not THAT bloody bonus round again" etc.

I actually get more entertainment on here than gaming at the moment; this is the first site I come to when I open my laptop each day! :lolup:
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
That's why breaks from everything you enjoy to do or use (like a husband) is so important to take sometimes.
Then they are fun to play with again for a little while :)
So... you're saying that everything your husband does is pre-determined, and not really random...? :eek2:

KK
 

nisosbar

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Location
Right here
It's the inconvenience that's taken away a lot of the fun for us in the US.

As to game fairness, I think most of the games are likely fair, but the RTP's are too low, and that takes the fun out of playing for me.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
So... you're saying that everything your husband does is pre-determined, and not really random...? :eek2:

KK

I'm sure some of them sometimes can act in a totally random and unpredictable way that make you keep your interest, thinking you actually have chosen something unik to play with.
Mine didn't.

Now I make sure I get a fair game who ever I chose to play with ;)
 

3Dice

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
-
I remember the day I turned cynical about playing slots. It was the day I read an article about how some symbols are weighted more heavily than others - and the ones that are weighted the highest are the two blank spots on either side of the Jackpot symbol. Up til then I used to think, "oh look how close I was, all three jackpot symbols are showing" lol...which is of course what they want you to think. ;)

Hi Chayton,

What you describe dates back to a time where slot reels were actual physical reels .. you'd have a really hard time finding any slot that works like that online - not from any of the respected software providers at least. Most licensing jurisdictions these days explicitly disallow any type of game where the visual or mechanic of the game suggests a certain distribution that is not the actual distribution. (e.g. if you have a bonus game with cards, it needs to be distributed like an actual deck of cards - and if you have a reel - landing on each spot needs to have the same odds.)

For some reason what got me was RTG's "random" jackpots - when I learned that your chances to trigger the random go up with bet size I was kind of like "mmhmm, so what else is random around here?"

Hi labeled,

Every cent bet has the same random odd. It's the only fair and random way .. why would you feel that that's not random ?


To the OP,

Next time you play, log into your favorite game, set up your bet, adjust your chair just right, and slowly hover your mouse cursor over the spin button. Now pause. Before you press click - take a deep breath and imagine the RNG of the server generating an endless stream of random numbers - flowing out to all the players that are playing - the timing of your click will determine your position in that stream, which in turn determines your random numbers, where your reels will stop, ultimately determining your win. Insert one last dramatic pause - and press the click button. Envision a digitally sparked binary one travelling through your mouse cord, the circuitry in your computer, your phone or cable line into the internet over dozens of computers to arrive at the server and lock you in to the outcome of yet another exciting spin.

The point is this .. as we learn how things work .. we may indeed become unable to appreciate them a certain way - but we must be sure to remain open to find the new way to appreciate them .. rather than stay focused on the old way .. Compare it to before and after learning about Santa Claus - its only the story that is an illusion - not the intentions or the gifts - yet it always takes some time to discover the true value of the things we learn.

Cheers,

Enzo
 

Balthazar

The Governor
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Location
Woodbury
take a deep breath and imagine the RNG of the server generating an endless stream of random numbers - flowing out to all the players that are playing - the timing of your click will determine your position in that stream, which in turn determines your random numbers, where your reels will stop, ultimately determining your win.

It's not an excuse for predetermined "pick me" bonus rounds, though. It's still random but I don't think it's ethical (which is probably why it's not allowed in most B&M jurisdictions).

Other than that I agree with everything you say.
 

mrmark21

Dormant Account
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
I'm more likely to use the quick spin button when I'm playing a software where I feel like I'm more likely to loose (RTG comes to mind). So the spins feel like they are pre-determend (they aren't I've just gotten used to that result).

This kind of thinking has changed my attitude towards playing online :)
 

3Dice

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
-
It's not an excuse for predetermined "pick me" bonus rounds, though. It's still random but I don't think it's ethical (which is probably why it's not allowed in most B&M jurisdictions).

Other than that I agree with everything you say.

You will only find that in the older jurisdictions - it dates from a time where where digital technology was new and not quite fully understood. These days, we have a much clearer view on virtualisation, and modern regulations have much more adequately captured everything that can possibly be of influence to the customer through the principle of equivalence.

If a casino wishes to offer a card game online, how should a good jurisdiction regulate that procedure ? Should they require the casino to have an actual physical deck of cards to be shuffled in the server room and results entered ? Or should they allow a 'virtual' deck of cards - and if so how are the engineers allowed to represent that deck ? Implementation choices are infinite and so modern regulations instead of focusing on methods, focus on the result. They will all require that the result is indistinguishable from an actual deck of cards. This is how you mathematically guarantee a fair game .. if there's no mathematical way to tell the difference between the virtual and a real deck - then the virtual representation is a valid one and the virtual deck can be used instead of a real one while guaranteeing that this produces no difference for the user.

The same goes for the picking games. Should a regulator require a casino to actually have three treasure chests filled with random amounts of gold in the server room ? Obviously not - but whatever implementation the casino chooses it needs to be mathematically indistinguishable from actually having three treasure chests in the server room. Any implementation that satisfies that condition is a fair and equivalent one ..
Those older regulations that enforce that particular implementation just have rule that serves no purpose, and makes no difference. In fact the regulator himself would not be able to tell apart a machine that does from one that doesn't. It's a useless rule that protects nobody and serves no purpose. As far as ethical goes I'm afraid that that simply doesn't apply to math. It's not mathemethics ;) - whether you like it or not, if two sides of an equation are the same - you have to put an equal sign between them. If the left side is ethical - so is the right side .. the virtualisation itself retains the 'ethical' property from the real world. What I mean is this if you take those old school and very unethical weighted b&m slot reels (with more blanks in the result than in the representation - which apparently was allowed in those jurisdictions ...) - and you make a mathematical indistinguishable virtual version of them .. then both are unethical ..

Just my 2c,

Cheers,

Enzo
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
I remember the day I turned cynical about playing slots. It was the day I read an article about how some symbols are weighted more heavily than others - and the ones that are weighted the highest are the two blank spots on either side of the Jackpot symbol. Up til then I used to think, "oh look how close I was, all three jackpot symbols are showing" lol...which is of course what they want you to think. ;)

What you describe dates back to a time where slot reels were actual physical reels .. you'd have a really hard time finding any slot that works like that online - not from any of the respected software providers at least . Most licensing jurisdictions these days explicitly disallow any type of game where the visual or mechanic of the game suggests a certain distribution that is not the actual distribution. (e.g. if you have a bonus game with cards, it needs to be distributed like an actual deck of cards - and if you have a reel - landing on each spot needs to have the same odds.)
Microgaming have quite a lot of slots which are weighted - so not that hard to find online! ;)
Shame you think they're not respected though... :p

KK
 

Slotster!

I predict a riot.
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Location
Location, Location!
Every cent bet has the same random odd. It's the only fair and random way .. why would you feel that that's not random ?


Just to quickly dive in - this is a very succinct and accurate way of explaining how betting more on a progressive gives you a bigger chance of hitting the jackpot. Its something that has been discussed here a lot, but that description answers it beautifully.
 
Top