Has a change of thinking taken the fun away?

[skiny]

You will only find that in the older jurisdictions - it dates from a time where where digital technology was new and not quite fully understood. These days, we have a much clearer view on virtualisation, and modern regulations have much more adequately captured everything that can possibly be of influence to the customer through the principle of equivalence.

If a casino wishes to offer a card game online, how should a good jurisdiction regulate that procedure ? Should they require the casino to have an actual physical deck of cards to be shuffled in the server room and results entered ? Or should they allow a 'virtual' deck of cards - and if so how are the engineers allowed to represent that deck ? Implementation choices are infinite and so modern regulations instead of focusing on methods, focus on the result. They will all require that the result is indistinguishable from an actual deck of cards. This is how you mathematically guarantee a fair game .. if there's no mathematical way to tell the difference between the virtual and a real deck - then the virtual representation is a valid one and the virtual deck can be used instead of a real one while guaranteeing that this produces no difference for the user.

The same goes for the picking games. Should a regulator require a casino to actually have three treasure chests filled with random amounts of gold in the server room ? Obviously not - but whatever implementation the casino chooses it needs to be mathematically indistinguishable from actually having three treasure chests in the server room. Any implementation that satisfies that condition is a fair and equivalent one ..
Those older regulations that enforce that particular implementation just have rule that serves no purpose, and makes no difference. In fact the regulator himself would not be able to tell apart a machine that does from one that doesn't. It's a useless rule that protects nobody and serves no purpose. As far as ethical goes I'm afraid that that simply doesn't apply to math. It's not mathemethics - whether you like it or not, if two sides of an equation are the same - you have to put an equal sign between them. If the left side is ethical - so is the right side .. the virtualisation itself retains the 'ethical' property from the real world. What I mean is this if you take those old school and very unethical weighted b&m slot reels (with more blanks in the result than in the representation - which apparently was allowed in those jurisdictions ...) - and you make a mathematical indistinguishable virtual version of them .. then both are unethical ..

Just my 2c,

Cheers,

Enzo

I think the point was the predetermined prize before the chest is picked. If your prize is already set before you pick a chest, the entire picking process is pointless. If a bonus round has already randomly chosen to pay 9 dollars and then asks you to pick one of three chests to receive it, there's not much excitement in picking any of the chests. Both methods may be equally fair but only one method offers excitement during the bonus round. In fact the bonus round could be just as fair to read "Pick a chest to receive your 9 dollar prize." How exciting is that?

 

[DavidEC]

I think the point was the predetermined prize before the chest is picked. If your prize is already set before you pick a chest, the entire picking process is pointless. If a bonus round has already randomly chosen to pay 9 dollars and then asks you to pick one of three chests to receive it, there's not much excitement in picking any of the chests. Both methods may be equally fair but only one method offers excitement during the bonus round. In fact the bonus round could be just as fair to read "Pick a chest to receive your 9 dollar prize." How exciting is that?

I wouldnt say it is worthless, but I do think knowledge detracts from the enjoyment of any activity. You know it is predetermined, so there is no element of mystery and suspense. But it should be considered that 95% of people will most definitely not realise that this is how it works behind scenes. Especially with the whole social media drive, there are more and more players who will simply not have a clue and I believe this is who it is for.

For me for example, I have studied games design, video games that is. I also worked for a MMO company and got deep insights into both the thinking and technical aspects of how it all runs behind the scenes. So if I went now and played World of Warcraft, all I would see is the life time value extending game mechanics such as the infamous grind, achievement engines, skill trees etc. It is all designed commercially. And for me at least, this doesnt appeal to me in the slightest.

So I tend to play indie video games, because they have what I think of as "vision". The creators typically have a vision of an experience they want the player to have and they do their best to implement it within the technical and financial limitations they have. I love a good story and if a game can paint that vivid world for me and draw me in, I consider it well done.

For the same reasons I doubt I will ever get hooked on slots or any casino games. I know how they work and it makes it much less fun. And the opportunity to win money only motivates for so long before I am like "meh". But when I do give some slots a spin, I do just look at the graphics and the bonus features and try and appreciate them on a professional level i.e are they pretty, are they engaging for the uninitiated etc.

Just my opinion of course, but that is typically how I see things. I just hope the industry gets it's ass in gear and tries something innovative and radically different, because everything out there is the same. It was also what I loved about JStrikes games. They were different and thinking behind them was great.

Cheers,

DC

 

[Redbet-Andy]

I understand what you mean but surely a really good slot can still engage you despite knowing how it works.

I never watch "behind the scenes" or "the making of" programs about movies because that kills the magic in a similar way, a great movie can overcome that though.
Same with computer games. I know that I haven't actually just won the European Cup with Everton in Football Manager or killed a Troll in Troll Killer but it still feels like more than a massive string of 110010101101010101100110101010011101s etc.

 

[Balthazar]

As far as ethical goes I'm afraid that that simply doesn't apply to math. It's not mathemethics - whether you like it or not, if two sides of an equation are the same - you have to put an equal sign between them. If the left side is ethical - so is the right side ..

I disagree. The reason it's unethical is because the player is led to believe that his/her pick matters when in reality it doesn't. That's almost as bad as the good old near misses with mechanical slots, where the players thought that they "almost won". There's no need for make-believe when you can have a 100% "honest" slot that pays the same RTP.

 

[Balthazar]

Microgaming have quite a lot of slots which are weighted - so not that hard to find online!

Enzo was talking about weighted like the old mechanical slots, which is completely different from predetermined outcomes triggered by the RNG like you'll find in some bonus rounds with the newer MGS slots, or the pick-me rounds at 3Dice.

 

[chayton]

Hi Chayton,

What you describe dates back to a time where slot reels were actual physical reels .. you'd have a really hard time finding any slot that works like that online - not from any of the respected software providers at least. Most licensing jurisdictions these days explicitly disallow any type of game where the visual or mechanic of the game suggests a certain distribution that is not the actual distribution. (e.g. if you have a bonus game with cards, it needs to be distributed like an actual deck of cards - and if you have a reel - landing on each spot needs to have the same odds.)

Yes I was reading about the original mechanical slots.

Although it's interesting that whenever I get a spin on the big wheel in Mega Moolah, I always win the lowest jackpot, but 75% of the time I land on the space on the wheel that's RIGHT BESIDE the Mega Jackpot space - instead of one on the other side of the wheel for instance. I understand it's just eye candy and if the wheel is slowing down at the big jackpot it helps build some excitement, but I'm sure there's also some psychology involved. Lol "if I would have just hit that button a tiny bit harder..."

 

[incrediblestuff]

Skimmed through the thread, just wanted to say that indeed a change of information flow has definitely changed the experience for a lot of players: in fact i would dare to say that some people derive the wrong info from reading wildly speculative statements (that seem to re-appear all too frequently, in several places) and then stop enjoying the games.

Over-analyzing your sandwich won't make it taste better.
I could go deeper into the "sandwich subject" but i am afraid some people would not want to eat them anymore

 

[labeled]

Hi labeled,

Every cent bet has the same random odd. It's the only fair and random way .. why would you feel that that's not random ?

OK, you've reaffirmed my faith in the randomness. I honestly never even looked at it that way.

 

[everyday]

I'm really enjoying this topic because it touches on things I've been wondering about for a long time now. My way of thinking is really old school because I worked on bookkeeping machines and in house computers and p.c.'s, when they came out. I was an operator, not a programmer, but I developed a very basic understanding of what the software programmers could do. I watched these guys work their magic when something needed fixing or changing and realized that computers are only capable of doing what the human programmer tells them to do. So when I started reading about "random" here my thinking was, well, ok, the programmers had a hand in this and have designed the software in such a way that they allow me to win sometimes and allow me to lose sometimes. The randomness is my not knowing when either of these will occur. Please excuse the simple way my thought pattern works because I am not a math wiz like so many of you good people on here and cannot even begin to understand what you are patiently trying to explain to us time & again.

Simply put, in my mind, software can be changed & manipulated whenever a programmer feels the need to do so. OK so I see the basic program, which has allowed me, over the years, to see patterns. I know I'm not alone there because I've seen so much on this site where I've wanted to shout "me too", but I didn't want to become a member of the tin foil hat club at that point. Then we started seeing "updates" to either specific slots or the entire casino which left me wondering "why?". What are they doing & what have they changed? So, of course I run in here to see posts of "Well, that update has sure cooled off my slots" and I want to shout "me too". Is that randomness or a pattern?

This site has had many postings about slots behaving in ways that they shouldn't, to the detriment of the players and usually within a short period of time, that operator is labeled "rogue". Does that not suggest that their software is not truly random but being manipulated to some degree? So why can that not happen at non-rogue casinos too?

This info on this site has beneficial to me as far as steering me away for the rogues but it also has given me insight as far as predetermined outcomes for example and just too many "me too" coincidences for me not to believe that we are all being "manipulated" to some degree. So perhaps too much info has tainted my way of thinking but I feel I've developed a more realistic approach to the slots where I can usually tell within 5 minutes of play what kind of outcome I will receive and my gut is right 99.9% of the time. But there's always that 00.1% sitting out there that very occasionally rewards my efforts. So I guess that is the randomness but I believe true randomness should reward me more often than it has done of late. Nothing is as it was 10 years ago when I first started and winning more regularly on slots for a foregone conclusion. It isn't that way anymore and it does beg the question "why?" So please don't beat me up too much as I'm just a simple lady posting what just seems simply obvious to me at least.

 

[skiny]

For some reason what got me was RTG's "random" jackpots - when I learned that your chances to trigger the random go up with bet size I was kind of like "mmhmm, so what else is random around here?"

I think it's fair that the chance of winning a progressive jackpot increases with the bet size considering the bet size is what increases the size of the jackpot. If 1 or 2% of each bet is going toward a random jackpot, someone betting $100 per spin is contributing much more to the total jackpot than someone betting 20 cents. It wouldn't be very fair for both wagers to have the same odds of hitting the jackpot. It's pretty hard to hit an RTG jackpot at minimum bet but it is possible. I did it on a 25 cent bet playing Hidden Riches a few years ago.

As for the predetermined outcomes of bonus rounds. I don't really understand why they have to be predetermined. I'm assuming the amount the bonus round pays is randomly chosen when the bonus is triggered and not already determined before I spin. Why can't the RNG generate more than one prize amount and let the player's choice dictate the amount won? I think most players would agree that the bonus round itself would be more exciting if they knew their choice made some difference.

 

[bvu2011]

Skimmed through the thread, just wanted to say that indeed a change of information flow has definitely changed the experience for a lot of players: in fact i would dare to say that some people derive the wrong info from reading wildly speculative statements (that seem to re-appear all too frequently, in several places) and then stop enjoying the games.

Over-analyzing your sandwich won't make it taste better.
I could go deeper into the "sandwich subject" but i am afraid some people would not want to eat them anymore

I have been reading casinomeister forums in-depth now for a couple of weeks. I came to the forum to see if some of the inquiry's I personally ponder and/or recognize as something that needs to be addressed have been previously asked here. And, they have!! So I have found some of the repetitive posts and responses to be very informative with regards to confirming that others have questioned as I do. I see a lot of bias though instead of objectivity. Hence, someone can not be right/wrong all the time, the customer, nor the business!

My way of thinking was not changed when I read the repetitive posts by a same person/s who posts here, but confirmed.

I believe it is very informative to acknowledge that something may be wrong somewhere if the same question/response is repetitive, especially if it is historical!!

 

[mrmark21]

IMO the question that needs to be asked: Since the features are predetermined what exactly determines them? What determines the amount you win? There must be something otherwise the feature wouldn't be predetermined.

 

[3Dice]

As for the predetermined outcomes of bonus rounds. I don't really understand why they have to be predetermined. I'm assuming the amount the bonus round pays is randomly chosen when the bonus is triggered and not already determined before I spin. Why can't the RNG generate more than one prize amount and let the player's choice dictate the amount won?

There are a couple of reasons for not drawing the numbers ahead of time. Security is probably the most important one. Numbers that are drawn ahead of time need to be stored before the player made that choice. Storing those numbers opens room for a security leak where a malicious casino or a malicious player finds or alters the numbers before making the choice. Secondly there's the play experience, clearly the options can't be transmitted to the game client before the choice is made (again - to easy to hack), so that means that the communication can only happen after you do the click.. which results in a deteriorated play experience with potential 'connecting dialogs' and hickups at each e.g. squirrel you hit.

I think most players would agree that the bonus round itself would be more exciting if they knew their choice made some difference.

That's a fallacy. Their choice wouldn't make any difference since its a random choice. There is no difference between a random sequence and the sum of two random sequences. Look at it the quantum physics way - the universe where the player would have made another choice is also a universe where the choices were different.

Let me try to illustrate. Game with two treasure chests.

scenario A.

server picks two random prizes : $4 for chest 1 and $11 for chest 2.
user picks chest 1.
server sends $4 as prize and $11 for the reveal. (server can only do its bookkeeping here, after the choice).
user gets jerky anim because of wait for server.

now lets transform that a tiny little bit ..

scenario B.

server does nothing.
user picks chest 1.
server picks two random prizes : $4 for chest 1 and $11 for chest 2.
server sends $4 as prize and $11 for the reveal. (server can only do its bookkeeping here, after the choice).
user gets jerky anim because of wait for server - same result.

that's interesting .. we solved the storage problem .. but not the connection/smoothness one. I think
everyone will agree that this is the same as scenario A.

lets transform it a tiny bit more ..

scenario C.

server does nothing.
user picks chest 1
server generates random prize for user choice : $4, and random prize for the other chest : $11
server sends $4 as prize and $11 for the reveal. (server can only do its bookkeeping here, after the choice).
user gets jerky anim because of wait for server - same result.

Subtle difference .. but imho still clearly 100% equivalent. No more storage problem .. but still a connection problem.

and after a last modification :

server generates random prize for user choice : $4, and random prize for the other chest : $11
server sends $4 as prize and $11 for the reveal. (server can do its bookkeeping here, before the choice - in fact can do it as soon as the bet is received.).
user picks chest 1
user gets smooth anim - same result.

Now we solved both problems, and still did exactly the same as in scenario C, which was the same as B, which is the same as A ..

Long story short the fallacy is ofcourse thinking the choice makes a difference in scenario A .. so let me just say this :
if it makes a difference in A, then it makes a difference in D .. if it doesn't in A .. it doesn't in D.

so,

I disagree. The reason it's unethical is because the player is led to believe that his/her pick matters when in reality it doesn't.

Even in scenario A the user's pick doesn't matter - the user that believes that simply does not understand random - which is not a requirement at all
to appreciate the game - but deducing the user's random choice makes a difference in any scenario is a perception mistake. (its a common one - this
is one of those contra-intuitive things that makes gambling interesting)

Cheers,

Enzo

 

[mattsgame]

I think it's fair that the chance of winning a progressive jackpot increases with the bet size considering the bet size is what increases the size of the jackpot. If 1 or 2% of each bet is going toward a random jackpot, someone betting $100 per spin is contributing much more to the total jackpot than someone betting 20 cents. It wouldn't be very fair for both wagers to have the same odds of hitting the jackpot. It's pretty hard to hit an RTG jackpot at minimum bet but it is possible. I did it on a 25 cent bet playing Hidden Riches a few years ago.

As for the predetermined outcomes of bonus rounds. I don't really understand why they have to be predetermined. I'm assuming the amount the bonus round pays is randomly chosen when the bonus is triggered and not already determined before I spin. Why can't the RNG generate more than one prize amount and let the player's choice dictate the amount won? I think most players would agree that the bonus round itself would be more exciting if they knew their choice made some difference.

Well said, Most land based jackpot machines work exactly the same way. The more you bet the more (Tickets) you get to trigger the feature for the jackpot or more Jackpot symbols will appear on the reels.

On the subject at hand, TBH the more knowledge I have gained the better, I would rather know what is going on than blindly wasting my money on something I know nothing much about. Pre determined or not it is still random before that pre determined outcome.

 

[skiny]

server generates random prize for user choice : $4, and random prize for the other chest : $11
server sends $4 as prize and $11 for the reveal. (server can do its bookkeeping here, before the choice - in fact can do it as soon as the bet is received.).
user picks chest 1
user gets smooth anim - same result.

This is just as fair and just as random as any other method. The only difference being the player isn't really picking anything. No matter what the player clicks the result will be exactly the same and if you know this the only real choice you're making is if you want your prize to show up on the left side of the screen or the right.

A one or two second delay or hiccup after I click is fine. If the delay is much more than that the server is too slow. Each time I hit the spin button the game should be generating random numbers and then sending them to my computer. The spinning reels gives me something to look at after I click and while I wait. A short animation while the server does the same job after I click a chest should be no different than after I click a spin button. It's a bonus round so I'll have more patience than waiting for spinning reels to stop. Give me a two second drum roll while the server sends me the information. I'd prefer that over looking at a screen, knowing no matter what I click it changes nothing.

 

[DavidEC]

I understand what you mean but surely a really good slot can still engage you despite knowing how it works.

I never watch "behind the scenes" or "the making of" programs about movies because that kills the magic in a similar way, a great movie can overcome that though.
Same with computer games. I know that I haven't actually just won the European Cup with Everton in Football Manager or killed a Troll in Troll Killer but it still feels like more than a massive string of 110010101101010101100110101010011101s etc.

This was exactly my thinking. I appreciate it on a different level than say the average user, because I know how it works behind the scenes.

So for say Football Manager (Everton, winning something??!), I would look at the usability and intuitiveness of the interfaces, the ability of the design to create attachment through being able to make it really MY team, for example. Like if I wanted the Rock in defence, Chuck Norris up front and Mr Blobby in goal, well that would be mine and the ability to do that would attract me, or at least be one element I can appreciate despite knowing it would make little difference to the game. Mainly because it would be my choice, even if it made no difference.

I think it is just a shift in perceptions and you can still enjoy it, but I think it is harder, because you have higher expectations and are not necessarily as easily roped in by the pyschology 101 you see in a lot of widely distributed products, like slots provided on a white label basis.

Interesting thread btw and great explanation of randomness Enzo. The truth is, control in itself is a fallacy and we are all marionettes dancing to the strings of powers beyond our comprehension/knowledge

KR,

David

 

[bvu2011]

I'm really enjoying this topic because it touches on things I've been wondering about for a long time now. My way of thinking is really old school because I worked on bookkeeping machines and in house computers and p.c.'s, when they came out. I was an operator, not a programmer, but I developed a very basic understanding of what the software programmers could do. I watched these guys work their magic when something needed fixing or changing and realized that computers are only capable of doing what the human programmer tells them to do. So when I started reading about "random" here my thinking was, well, ok, the programmers had a hand in this and have designed the software in such a way that they allow me to win sometimes and allow me to lose sometimes. The randomness is my not knowing when either of these will occur. Please excuse the simple way my thought pattern works because I am not a math wiz like so many of you good people on here and cannot even begin to understand what you are patiently trying to explain to us time & again.

Simply put, in my mind, software can be changed & manipulated whenever a programmer feels the need to do so. OK so I see the basic program, which has allowed me, over the years, to see patterns. I know I'm not alone there because I've seen so much on this site where I've wanted to shout "me too", but I didn't want to become a member of the tin foil hat club at that point. Then we started seeing "updates" to either specific slots or the entire casino which left me wondering "why?". What are they doing & what have they changed? So, of course I run in here to see posts of "Well, that update has sure cooled off my slots" and I want to shout "me too". Is that randomness or a pattern?

This site has had many postings about slots behaving in ways that they shouldn't, to the detriment of the players and usually within a short period of time, that operator is labeled "rogue". Does that not suggest that their software is not truly random but being manipulated to some degree? So why can that not happen at non-rogue casinos too?

This info on this site has beneficial to me as far as steering me away for the rogues but it also has given me insight as far as predetermined outcomes for example and just too many "me too" coincidences for me not to believe that we are all being "manipulated" to some degree. So perhaps too much info has tainted my way of thinking but I feel I've developed a more realistic approach to the slots where I can usually tell within 5 minutes of play what kind of outcome I will receive and my gut is right 99.9% of the time. But there's always that 00.1% sitting out there that very occasionally rewards my efforts. So I guess that is the randomness but I believe true randomness should reward me more often than it has done of late. Nothing is as it was 10 years ago when I first started and winning more regularly on slots for a foregone conclusion. It isn't that way anymore and it does beg the question "why?" So please don't beat me up too much as I'm just a simple lady posting what just seems simply obvious to me at least.

Excellent post!!!!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

On the one hand I can see Balth's point that the player is definitely given the impression that there are right and wrong choices in pick me rounds, but there's no arguing with Enzo's point that mathematically it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. (After all, everything is done blind so there's no concept of making a 'good' choice or a 'bad' choice in that regard. As such, players who don't understand how it works aren't in any way being cheated, and players who do can simply make the choice to avoid pick-me round slots if they really don't like it that much.)

I was playing Enchanted Spins at some length last night and of course that bonus round is 100% pick-mes and it's also critical to make the 'right' choice on the first two picks to get to Level 3.

Enzo has made it absolutely clear that the result of the round is already 'known' and all I'm doing is uncovering that result, but I honestly didn't find it spoiling my enjoyment of the round at all.

As long as I'm confident that the RNG result at the start of the round is fair and random, I'm quite happy to go along with a pick-me game to see what that result is. When I hit the 675x stake win last night in particular, I knew it was because the RNG had chosen that result before the round even started, and that it wasn't just because I was doing 'well' on the picks, but it was still exciting to reveal.

I also take Enzo's point that it becomes far more of a nightmare to control if every pick requires back-and-forth with the server, the scope for hacking attempts, disconnection problems and or players trying to 'game' disconnects if they make a wrong pick, and so on - means it clearly makes sense to just send the whole lot at once as soon as the round is triggered.

Imagine a scenario on a slot where the picks really are 'true picks', and whereby you had three chests to choose from, and they contained £1, £10, and £1000 - and before making the pick you get a disconnect. You reconnect to the server and are presented with the same choice again, your chances of getting any given result are exactly the same as they were before. You could deliberately pull your internet connection, reconnect again and get presented with the same choice again, it doesn't make any difference.

As soon as you make a pick it's recorded and committed, and it's not like you can disconnect again and have another go.

This is exactly the same as the server determining the outcome for the round BEFORE you pick anything, mathematically it's identical.

It's a total non-issue for me, it really is, and it doesn't spoil the excitement of the games or my enjoyment of them at all.

 

[Wild Reels]

Even though it may be predetermined, I still find myself deliberating over which thing to pick, just in case. now that's madness as I'm fully aware the outcome is already determined...

 

[Jasminebed]

I disagree. The reason it's unethical is because the player is led to believe that his/her pick matters when in reality it doesn't. That's almost as bad as the good old near misses with mechanical slots, where the players thought that they "almost won". There's no need for make-believe when you can have a 100% "honest" slot that pays the same RTP.

Balthazar. you are in PQ, one of the most transparent juristiction for slots IMO. You go to Casino de Lac Leamy, you will find laminated card explaining how your picks do not influence game outcome on certain bonus rounds. The same game you can find across the river at Rideau Carleton, but without the explanation.

Three reel slots are mostly weighted, those of us who play them see one line up or one line down way more often that 2/3.

But it doesn't mean it's not fair or random.

Kind of helps to know you didn't just miss it IMO.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This is just as fair and just as random as any other method. The only difference being the player isn't really picking anything. No matter what the player clicks the result will be exactly the same and if you know this the only real choice you're making is if you want your prize to show up on the left side of the screen or the right.

A one or two second delay or hiccup after I click is fine. If the delay is much more than that the server is too slow. Each time I hit the spin button the game should be generating random numbers and then sending them to my computer. The spinning reels gives me something to look at after I click and while I wait. A short animation while the server does the same job after I click a chest should be no different than after I click a spin button. It's a bonus round so I'll have more patience than waiting for spinning reels to stop. Give me a two second drum roll while the server sends me the information. I'd prefer that over looking at a screen, knowing no matter what I click it changes nothing.

TBH skiny I still think you're missing the thrust of what Enzo is saying, that the concept of 'making a choice' doesn't exist with a random outcome, because it's random. Enzo's statement thus encapsulates it all for me:

Look at it the quantum physics way - the universe where the player would have made another choice is also a universe where the choices were different.

You do at least agree that mathematically speaking, the results are identical whether or not the picks are 'true picks'? (TBH you have to agree with that, otherwise you're just ignoring facts.)

That being the case, literally the only logical conclusion is that it doesn't make any difference if the player 'controls' the picks or not.

The whole thing is a gambler's fallacy, it's a compelling fallacy and it's easy to see why people fall for it - but seriously, there is no downside whatsoever from a player perspective to pick-me rounds being pre-determined. It makes sense for both the casino and the player, and it doesn't make the game any less fair.

 

[Balthazar]

Balthazar. you are in PQ, one of the most transparent juristiction for slots IMO. You go to Casino de Lac Leamy, you will find laminated card explaining how your picks do not influence game outcome on certain bonus rounds. The same game you can find across the river at Rideau Carleton, but without the explanation.

Actually, the way it's worded is a bit confusing but it means that your picks do not influence the RTP. It's basically a warning for compulsive players that think that they can beat the slots with "strategy". While it's true that it doesn't change the RTP, it does change the variance (e.g: 15 free spins at x4 will have a higher variance than 30 free spins at x2). So picking 30 spins doesn't mean that you'll win the exact same thing as picking 15 spins on that particular bonus round but on the long run (over, say, a million bonus rounds) it will be the same or very similar.

I've posted the QC gambling laws here a few times already and they clearly say that's illegal to have predetermined pick me's.

 

[Balthazar]

It's a total non-issue for me, it really is, and it doesn't spoil the excitement of the games or my enjoyment of them at all.

TBH I don't give a sh*t either. In fact, I hate having to pick and to think that I might make the wrong choice. The reason I dislike it is because it opens the door to tin foil hats and it's not necessary.

 

[skiny]

TBH I don't give a sh*t either. In fact, I hate having to pick and to think that I might make the wrong choice. The reason I dislike it is because it opens the door to tin foil hats and it's not necessary.

If picking stones in this new 3Dice slot game makes no difference then why show me all the stones after as if I could have picked something different? You picked the lowest paying stones and here is where the higher ones were? Seems to me that's designed to make people think they had a choice.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

If picking stones in this new 3Dice slot game makes no difference then why show me all the stones after as if I could have picked something different? You picked the lowest paying stones and here is where the higher ones were? Seems to me that's designed to make people think they had a choice.

I must confess that was part of the feedback I gave to Enzo when beta-testing the slot, because it was so frustrating to keep getting stuck on Level 1 of the bonus round without any idea of what the other awards and/or the progression opportunities were (it wasn't even clear how many levels there were) - as such I suggested the 'reveal', similar to how Super Jackpot Party does at the end of the bonus round, so that at least the player can see what the other awards are. My thinking wasn't to imply there were right or wrong choices, but rather to show the player what the round was capable of awarding.

(When I beta-tested the slot there was no minimap to show which level you were on, no pick history, no 'picks you want' guide, no win values legend, and no maximum potential win indicator - my feedback was basically to the effect of 'As the player you just have no idea what's really going on and how much you can win', I suggested the minimap and reveal as well as a couple of other things.)

However, with the win values legend clearly showing what picks are available on each level, I agree that the reveal is rendered redundant and the win values legend effectively does the same job but better.