Giantvegas wont pay $4879 in winnings

[kreome]

I played at giantvegas during June 2005, I deposited 200 and got 200 signup bonus, I played roulette and Tri card and won $4879. they refuse to pay saying I was not allowed to play roulette, the only problem is that it was not mention in the terms of the casino and I have a screenshot of the old terms.

Also in their new terms roulette is allowed to play but doesn't count thru the wagering

Why to pay a winner of 4879 if u can just not pay and get along with it, it seems this casino doesn't care about his reputation at all since he has no reputation.

Here are the terms in brief which u can see clearly that roulette is allowed to play but doesn't count thru the wagering. I checked both the terms of the bonus and the terms of use where sometimes they hide it there but nothing, roulette is not mention as a game u may not play only the fact it doesn't count thru the wagering.

It says on the terms this sentence

bet placeed on roulette,blackjack baccarat,Craps,Jack or better,Blackjack,Video poker and Sci bo Don't count toward the wagering requirements.


As I mention sometime in the terms of use they hide a term that if u play these games they reserve the right not to pay like in other playtech like Vegasred group and carnival BUT NOT AT ROYALDICE AND GIANTVEGAS and I have a screenshot with a date of everything to support my side

I thought a casino business is that u take the player money once he lose and pay once he wins and follow the bonus terms, well in Giantvegas it works only one way on big winners from their bonuses.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Their affiliate manager posts over at Winnersonline and has offered to help players if they have a problem so you should try him.

His email address is [email protected]

 

[kreome]

Thank you for the information I sent 3 emails with all the infomation to but no reply

I will try again before I am going to publish it at the winneronline.com

Is the casinomeister in vocation because I get no reply to my pitch a bitch

 

[buck]

Giant

This is a RTG and your need to go through Montana. This casino was linked with Kiss that went out of business.
You are of legal age?

Buck

 

[Macgyver]

Thank you for the information I sent 3 emails with all the infomation to but no reply

I will try again before I am going to publish it at the winneronline.com

Is the casinomeister in vocation because I get no reply to my pitch a bitch

He's in Nice for a conference until next week.

Pitch a bitch Heads up

 

[jetset]

It's no longer RTG - the owner John Goodman switched to Playtech and the last I heard he was threatening to take RTG to court on a civil dispute over his tenure with them.

PS Unfortunately that means that your chances of getting a resolution via the software provider are limited - Playtech's recently introduced disputes channel was a bit of a joke, simply waving complainants back to the casino where the dispute started!

 

[Simmo!]

Is the casinomeister in vocation because I get no reply to my pitch a bitch

He is away this week and will be back at the weekend.

 

[The Dude]

The operator is already aware of this. So far it seems this player is associated with three players, and bet on games that were not allowed for the wagering reqiurements. More information is forthcoming. I'll keep you posted.

Their affiliate manager posts over at Winnersonline and has offered to help players if they have a problem so you should try him

Jon-jon is a member here as well.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

 

[kreome]

It is true I played a game that is not contribute towards the wagering but it does not mean you can not play them at all.

many casinos added a term that you may not play these games and I will give an example, in this casino there was not such a term.

Also in Bellerock gaming you can wager only in slots to complete the wagering but you may play other games for your fun and the same is with jackpot factory or allslots group here are couple of examples of terms that should be and then I agree with the casino that they reserve the right not to pay

From kingneptumes casino Microgaming

If you play any of the restricted games, which subsequently results in winnings, this play will not fulfill/complete the play through conditions. These winnings may be deemed null & void and will be removed/confiscated from your account balance or withdrawals at the sole discretion of Trident Entertainment Group.




From Vegasred group of casinos(europa tropez...)



We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the players original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered in any versions of Baccarat, Craps, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, Blackjack Switch and Blackjack Surrender



From spinpalace microgaming the palace group of casinos



If an excluded game is played before completion of the above wagering requirements, the casino reserves the right to void all play and close the account, and require the player to forfeit the deposit


It is not my business that other players make the same to win their bonus system it is obvious that in order to win you need to build a balance before you complete the wagering

 

[spearmaster]

The terms and conditions at other casinos are irrelevant. The only thing that counts is whether or not you met the terms and conditions in force at the time of your cashout at Giant Vegas.

If you can conclusively prove that the terms and conditions did NOT forbid roulette and render any cashout null and void, then you have a pretty good case, except if the casino proves that you broke some other condition, which is apparently what Casinomeister is referring to.

 

[The Dude]

The terms and conditions at other casinos are irrelevant. The only thing that counts is whether or not you met the terms and conditions in force at the time of your cashout at Giant Vegas.

If you can conclusively prove that the terms and conditions did NOT forbid roulette and render any cashout null and void, then you have a pretty good case, except if the casino proves that you broke some other condition, which is apparently what Casinomeister is referring to.

What Spear said is pretty much it.

This is a RTG and your need to go through Montana. This casino was linked with Kiss that went out of business.

Not quite. You should read this:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/giant-vegas-vs-rtg.10105/

 

[paul1]

What Spear said is pretty much it.


Not quite. You should read this:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/giant-vegas-vs-rtg.10105/

Anyone else see the irony in point #25 when RTG locked the CASINO out? Sorry, I couldn't help but smile a little bit upon reading that.

 

[Jon-Jon]

Oh dear...

I replied on receipt of the mail, then investigated and closed the matter 4 days later.

casinomeister has the same info, and I consider the matter closed, from my side at least.

 

[kreome]

Bryan and also Jon Jon seems to be convinced I am not deserve to get paid and I do not understand the hostility to winner from their side.

I played by the rules risked my money in the roulette and then wager the full amount in Tri card poker.

The terms never stated you can not play roulette for your fun and not for the wagering requirements and the casino never denied that , they just told me that I used their bonus and amplified it in such a way they do not like and pointed me as a bonus abuser.

I have a screenshot of the terms which state clearly that roulette does not count towards the wagering, It is almost $4500 which is 45 bills of 100 USD which the casino keep for himself I am not going to give up, I was totally stiifed by them and if you think my case is not true please tell me why.

What playtech has to say. Bryan implied that playtech has some secret stuff well, do you really believe playtech and their stories, they do not care about african palace and indio why would they care about me getting paid by this group.

That is how it works, if u win big the casino says oohh there is 4500 winner which is about 30 times the bonus we gave not to pay him is like not paying 20 times bonus winners, this should not be allowed by the industry.

 

[caruso]

I must've missed this thread.

Bryan and also Jon Jon seems to be convinced I am not deserve to get paid and I do not understand the hostility to winner from their side.

I am not surprised by "Jon-Jon"'s comment, gven the extraordinary arrogance of the "oh dear" comment above.

The terms never stated you can not play roulette for your fun and not for the wagering requirements and the casino never denied that , they just told me that I used their bonus and amplified it in such a way they do not like and pointed me as a bonus abuser.

I have a screenshot of the terms which state clearly that roulette does not count towards the wagering, It is almost $4500 which is 45 bills of 100 USD which the casino keep for himself I am not going to give up, I was totally stiifed by them and if you think my case is not true please tell me why.

If the terms say that roulette simply "does not count", then you are owed. Why is anyone disputing this? And their excuse is not that you broke the terms, but that you "used the bonus and AMPLIFIED it"??

You are clearly owed your full cashout on the basis of the information in this thread.

When Giant Vegas tried to slow-pay me a $1400 cashout until it would have been worth nothing to me other than a contribution to my funeral expenses, I had a webby friend of mine intercede (gotta keep the workload off Bryan occasionally, lol); if you get stuck on this, I will very happily put you his way, though I don't know his current relationship with them since they moved to Playtech. I'm not sure if he still carries them.

Hopefully, you'll be paid as a result of this thread, however. You are clearly owed.

 

[kreome]

I am trying to attach my screenshot but get a message that the picture length is too long, how do you reduce the side using paint for example

 

[Dirk Diggler]

So Jon-Jon, you post over at winnersonline basically claiming your casino's are trustworthy and now you are refusing to play a player who appears to have followed your terms and conditions?

Are you saying they didn't, if so what rule did they break?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Just been posted at WOL that the player apparently could have three accounts which is the reason for the confiscation.

Can you clarify Jon-Jon?

 

[Jon-Jon]

I apologise if my oh dear comment seemed arrogant, as I am not and have never, ever been accused by an affiliate of being so

I am a consultant to betrev, and cannot post more than what I have as this matter was viewed as closed based on information that would prejudice both the player and the casinos if published, and there is no reason to go down that road. All I can say is that there are three accounts with exactly the same play, opened on the same day (along with other warning signs that they employ wrt fraud) and that is reason enough. The casino was also kind enough to refund any money and offer another free bonus. There will be no gain by the player and no change in the decision should he continue this attack, and this will be my and the casinos last communication on this matter

I do know that the casino has this as the only (according to my own research) outstanding issue since they moved over to playtech - which is good going, and they are definitely on track.

If you look at

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this will explain my bio, and should betrev or its casios not perform, then I will not put my name to them and remove them as current clients - this is not the case, but you can be assured that I will not associate myself with shady operators, as I have been exposed to that before - this is your peace of mind.

I really hope that this is ok an explanation, and please feel free to pm or mail me directly should you require anything else - I will be glad to help...

All the best

 

[jetset]

I realise that this site is still a work in progress, Jon-Jon but you need to get Spell Check going asap!

 

[Jon-Jon]

aieeeee - where? I went through it and was sure I sorted out the problems, but will do so again...thanks for the heasdup!!!

late nights and in the need of specs now..

cheers!

edit --> found it - like a dog with mangement - should have been mangement, eh!

 

[The Dude]

...Hopefully, you'll be paid as a result of this thread, however. You are clearly owed.

But not if the player has more than one account.

So Jon-Jon, you post over at winnersonline basically claiming your casino's are trustworthy and now you are refusing to play a player who appears to have followed your terms and conditions?

If a player has more than one account, the terms and conditions have been broken.

I'm requesting further information. I hope kreome read carefully my terms and conditions of the "Pitch a Bitch" section: WARNING: FRAUDULENT CLAIMS WILL BE FULLY INVESTIGATED. YOU WILL BE BILLED 500 FOR THE EFFORT AND TIME SPENT! If this is a matter of a fraudulent claim, it's going to be a crappy Christmas for kreome. Kreome is in Germany and so are my lawyers - it will be no problem for me to collect.

Just a heads up.

 

[scrollock]

. All I can say is that there are three accounts with exactly the same play, opened on the same day (along with other warning signs that they employ wrt fraud) and that is reason enough. The casino was also kind enough to refund any money and offer another free bonus.

Hmm, thats sounds very much like the excuse golden palace used some time back to try and screw a load of players, i.e. accounts opened in the same time frame, similar styles of play.

the similar styles of play were simply "sticky bonus tactics", only problem was that this "fraud" gang was a worldwide conspiracy and its members were spread from the UK,germany and australia.

(along with other warning signs that they employ wrt fraud) and that is reason enough

this sounds like the casino is guessing there is fraud going on using circumstantial evidence, rather than having actual evidence or proof.

if there really is fraud going on, why are you giving him another bonus, if he is a fraudster, you lock him out and tell him never to come back!

if this guy is a fraudster, then hes not a good one, hes played an excluded game (allowed, although does not to WR), there is an advantage to playing these games even though they dont count to the WR (which is why some casinos will void any winnings if they are played at all).

so if he astute to know this and the advantage entailed in doing this, i find it unlikely that he would chose to use roulette when BJ was available under the same conditions, with a fraction of the house edge of roullette

 

[Dirk Diggler]

There's another player just turned up over at WOL claiming they are confiscating over $7000 off of them. They say they have PAB here.

Seems that they've played in a similar way to kreome.

 

[kreome]

I see now in the winneronline.com and I also see you gave Jon Jon email, I think Jon Jon will respond the same that the player did not understand well the terms and condition and that he interprate different the phrase does not count towards the wagering.

It is probably one of the players Bryan talked about here in this thread that also pitched a bitch

 

[caruso]

This is it? "Similar playing style"?

1) "Similar style of play" is not indicative of the three accounts belonging to one person. Many, many, many players have a "similar style of play". I will have a "similar style" to many players. I have only one account per casino.

You have not been "frauded" when a bunch of players play in a certain way, or conspired against. You have been beaten. Handle it.

2) The accusation itself, even if it were true, is not enough. Example: the recent Cirrus case had indisputable evidence of GENUINE fraud, ie. the player signed the "wrong" name to an email and signed up all his accounts from the same home address; he was clearly, provenly guilty. "Similar style" is meaningless.

It seems to me this excuse has been shovelled out and taken at big, fat face value. Based on the evidence presented here, you owe this player.

As to the WOL thread...

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...apparently, although the terms state that roulette "doesn't count", they sent out an EMAIL to the player, saying that roulette is "excluded".

Now, why would they not say that roulette is excluded in the TERMS? There is no need to send an email if the same information is simply added to them.

It's also clear at this point that the casino can differentiate between "does not count" and "excluded", and that this distinction is being used to very sharp effect by whoever's in charge here.

Nevertheless, the player is bound by the site rules he signed up under, NOT an apparent email sent AFTER he deposited. This is a smart sleight of hand by the casino, but it doesn't cut it. He is bound by your SITE RULES. Site rules cannot get mislaid in a spam folder or just plain delayed or not received. Site rules are therefore binding. Emails sent after the event are NOT binding.

In neither case do I see any evidence to suggest that both players are not owed.

 

[caruso]

Here are the terms. Roulette is clearly allowed. They even refer to "withdrawing winnings" after playing roulette, lol. Note that video poker IS excluded. Roulette, however, is plainly non-restricted.

 

[kreome]

I played half a year ago and the terms were different, now roulette is allowed to play and also count towards wagering, when I played it did not count but you could play it not for the wagering.

 

[kreome]

To Bryan, i will pay you for your time either way if they pay me and if they do not and you have proof of fraud.

The casino claimed the reason of the no pay was the roulette, they never claimed even that I had multiple accounts which I do not have.

You do not need a lawer, i will pay you if it comes to be any multiple accounts issue from my side.

you say there are other people to play restricted games and then allowed games, well it happens a lot, this is well known way to take advantage of bonuses.

I do not understand Bryan, Kiss casino which is owned by the same group were under the blacklisted casinos in the past, they committed frauds that made them to be in your list, why don't you claim the they comitted a fraud ? they already did it in the past.

To remind everyone Kiss casino and Giantvegas when they were RTG delayed cashouts, cancelled cashouts and were put in the blacklist everywhere, do you think they really changed ? Well, from seeing what is going on it seems they have not changed.

 

[The Dude]

To Bryan, i will pay you for your time either way if they pay me and if they do not and you have proof of fraud.

The casino claimed the reason of the no pay was the roulette, they never claimed even that I had multiple accounts which I do not have.

You do not need a lawer, i will pay you if it comes to be any multiple accounts issue from my side.

you say there are other people to play restricted games and then allowed games, well it happens a lot, this is well known way to take advantage of bonuses.

I do not understand Bryan, Kiss casino which is owned by the same group were under the blacklisted casinos in the past, they committed frauds that made them to be in your list, why don't you claim the they comitted a fraud ? they already did it in the past.

To remind everyone Kiss casino and Giantvegas when they were RTG delayed cashouts, cancelled cashouts and were put in the blacklist everywhere, do you think they really changed ? Well, from seeing what is going on it seems they have not changed.

What I am concerned about is players using the fora to either blackmail casinos when they know they (the player) is in the wrong, or just trying to damage a person's business by spewing false shit (oh, the imagery). I try to take each issue as it is, as they stand, regardless if it's a former rogue - present rogue - or future rogue. Keep your money - that ain't the issue. The integrity of the board is.

It's easy to make public accusations when using an anonymous presence. But it needs to be kept in check at all times. Just because a casino screwed up in the past (and the more it looks like it - it wasn't the casino that screwed up, but someone at RTG https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/giant-vegas-vs-rtg.10105/ ) it doesn't mean you are in the clear.

I'm waiting for further information from the casino and or Jon-Jon. I was under the impression that this was a case of several accounts opened by one person. Playing patterns, playing styles, whatever, this needs clarification. If you are in the right, then we're cool. If you are not, then it's not cool.

Now it's the cusp of a weekend. I hope by Monday this issue is cleared up

 

[scrollock]

There's another player just turned up over at WOL claiming they are confiscating over $7000 off of them. They say they have PAB here.

Seems that they've played in a similar way to kreome.

casinomeister anychance you could install a function to edit previous posts ?
mine doesnt seem to work.

the reason why is because i change my mind about defending this player.

everyone can jump down on me, but reading the WOL post,it is a similair prose to the initial post here, i suspect that its the same person.

while i do not condone a casino or any gaming company screwing anyone over on circumstantial evidence, i will not come to the aid of such a person.

on this subject though, over the years i have paid out a lot of people who i knew had screwed me over, however if i couldn't prove it they got paid, for the simple reason that for every ten twats you pay out there is one who is genuine. and at the end of the day the innocent shouldn't be punished for the guilty.

 

[kreome]

I have a bad luck here. The first time I saw the message at winneronline.com was when Dirk told me that in this forum.

Maybe the player there watch mine and just copied because it is the almost the same case, I did not even have the time to look carefuly on his message.

Also if his account is mine, why would I bark on less than 5000 if I have another account with 7000, don't you think it was smarter to start with the bigger winnings than the small ones.

I am waiting for the casinomeister to check into the information he says he is waiting from the operator although the I do not believe the operator after tones of money was not paid to players from African Palace and Indio and they do not care.

 

[caruso]

I don't think they're the same. The WOL player said he'd filed a complaint with Bryan, so if there are two complaintrs as stated, that's easily proven.

If he IS the same, all that makes him guilty of is signing up at two forums under different usernames. It doesn't make him any less owed, the site's stated terms any less binding or email sleight-of-hands any less irrelevant.

EDIT: Let me reiterate those terms for clarity:

5. For play on Slots, Keno, Derby Day, 3 card poker– The wagering requirement is 20x the deposit + bonus value before withdrawing any winnings.
6. For play on Blackjack, Mega Ball, Roulette, Baccarat, Sic Bo and Craps – the wagering requirement is 40x the deposit + bonus value before withdrawing any winnings

8. Video Poker is an excluded game and may not be played until such time as the wagering requirements for this particular bonus have been met.

Crystal clear, thanks mainly to the video poker inclusion. VP is exclude, roulette is NOT.

EDIT again: Of course, these are the current terms, not those the player signed up under.

Kreome: please either post your screenshot of the terms, or if you're having resizing problems email it to me and I'll resize it and post it for you.

 

[caruso]

Here are the relevant terms. Clearly, roulette simply "does not count" and is in no way "exluded".

 

[kreome]

bryan, did you get any information from playtech regarding this

 

[The Dude]

bryan, did you get any information from playtech regarding this

Nope, it went off the radar screen.

 

[caruso]

From the information presented in this thread there is nothing to indicate that the player is not owed his money: he has catagorically proved that roulette was NOT an excluded game, simply that it did not count to the bonus wagering.

Many casinos do this, allow "non-bonus-counting" games to be played which don't disallow cashouts. Why? They don't WANT to discourage BJ / VP / roulette / craps players, but they want their bonuses subject to the extreme vig of slots wagering. It makes sense.

 

[kreome]

Bryan, Did they deny the info I am giving here ?

I called them and that what they told me at that time that the problem is with the Roulette

Do you have any other info as you said from Playtech or the casino or from Jon Jon

 

[The Dude]

Bryan, Did they deny the info I am giving here ?

I called them and that what they told me at that time that the problem is with the Roulette

Do you have any other info as you said from Playtech or the casino or from Jon Jon

Jon-Jon's a member here. Go ahead and PM him, and I'll be on their backs about this come Monday.

 

[Jon-Jon]

Hello All

I have tried all I can to remedy this issue, to no avail. I have also cancelled the contract with BetRev which is the affiliate program for Giant Vegas and Royal Dice. I will therefore no longer be associated with the program, although I will continue to try and resolve issues relating to their performance to ensure that affiliates are treated fairly.

I will not be able to be involved with player issues unfortunately, only affiliate.

All the best

 

[elscrabinda]

If I was this player I would be inspired by the efforts of tjhooker among others on the African Palace issues. African Palace I would say is a far worse casino than GV/RD and yet with persistence it looks like progress can be made even there.

And Jon-Jon, either this player deserves a full apology for you accusing him of fraud or you don't think he should get paid and so your comment about trying your hardest doesn't make sense.

 

[caruso]

Wow, that's change. You've in fact pulled your affiliate relationship with Giant Vegas on the basis of this case? I take it then that the original take on the matter - see below - was found to be entirely incorrect?

I am a consultant to betrev, and cannot post more than what I have as this matter was viewed as closed based on information that would prejudice both the player and the casinos if published, and there is no reason to go down that road. All I can say is that there are three accounts with exactly the same play, opened on the same day (along with other warning signs that they employ wrt fraud) and that is reason enough. The casino was also kind enough to refund any money and offer another free bonus. There will be no gain by the player and no change in the decision should he continue this attack, and this will be my and the casinos last communication on this matter

Bryan, when you have a moment can you post an update to all this? In the very unfortunate event that things have reached a standstill there may yet be avenues available to the player, but they can't be investigated until one is absolutely clear of the situation right here.

 

[kreome]

Well, the casino never told me that and this is the first time I see it from Jon Jon

Jon Jon emailed me I remember and never mention that fact that other 3 players opened the account and played like me at the same day.

I think by the way that this is not true, if it was true why did they always tell me that the reason is roulette, they could have told me from the casino that the reason is multiple accounts , this is a much better reason not to pay a bonus player.

I want some information about this 3 accounts opened and played the same, is it excluded games and then tri card which make sense or is it roulette and then tri card the same day ??

 

[caruso]

At the risk of stepping on toes, I'm going to mention this matter, and the Swiss Casino one, to Playtech over the next couple of days if I can find someone relevant to speak to.

Probably will achieve a big fat zero as far as the actual issues go, but it can't hurt to help throw more light on what's going on in Playtech Licensee Country.

 

[jetset]

Playtech had several managers on duty at the ICE exhibition this afternoon when I was on their stand.

 

[caruso]

That was some serious achievement that our paths didn't cross - I was there fully an hour in busy mid-afternoon...

 

[jetset]

And I have spent the past three days here (still here in fact) at ICE and on the numerous times I have cruised the main provider stands Playtech have always had several managers in attendance. It's just good for business, and they have been pretty busy at it.

I spoke with Iris on the first day of this show and she assured me that despite their inauspicious start Playtech were now focusing in more detail on a player dispute channel that works.

She has now put in place an agreement that licensees will respond to her *mediator* enquiries within 48 houtrs, and she will endeavour to either resolve issues, or at least brief the complainant on progress within 72 hours.

That's an ambitious target, but just about anything will be an improvement. And Iris knows that she and Playtech will be judged on results by the player community.

As we have so often said in the past: Time will tell.

 

[caruso]

And I have spent the past three days here (still here in fact)

Small clarification in case you misunderstood: an hour at Playtech. I was at the exhibition two out of the three days.

I also spoke at length to Iris - I posted about it in my "Platech nightmare" thread.

 

[kreome]

I sent an email to playtech still no reply

Bryan, did you get any new information ?

 

[AussieDave]

Call me stupid or whatever but I don't see the point in accepting a bonus when your game of choice does not count towards wagering requirements.

To me it just looks like a recipe for dramas if not disaster