Giantvegas wont pay $4879 in winnings

[caruso]

This is it? "Similar playing style"?

1) "Similar style of play" is not indicative of the three accounts belonging to one person. Many, many, many players have a "similar style of play". I will have a "similar style" to many players. I have only one account per casino.

You have not been "frauded" when a bunch of players play in a certain way, or conspired against. You have been beaten. Handle it.

2) The accusation itself, even if it were true, is not enough. Example: the recent Cirrus case had indisputable evidence of GENUINE fraud, ie. the player signed the "wrong" name to an email and signed up all his accounts from the same home address; he was clearly, provenly guilty. "Similar style" is meaningless.

It seems to me this excuse has been shovelled out and taken at big, fat face value. Based on the evidence presented here, you owe this player.

As to the WOL thread...

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...apparently, although the terms state that roulette "doesn't count", they sent out an EMAIL to the player, saying that roulette is "excluded".

Now, why would they not say that roulette is excluded in the TERMS? There is no need to send an email if the same information is simply added to them.

It's also clear at this point that the casino can differentiate between "does not count" and "excluded", and that this distinction is being used to very sharp effect by whoever's in charge here.

Nevertheless, the player is bound by the site rules he signed up under, NOT an apparent email sent AFTER he deposited. This is a smart sleight of hand by the casino, but it doesn't cut it. He is bound by your SITE RULES. Site rules cannot get mislaid in a spam folder or just plain delayed or not received. Site rules are therefore binding. Emails sent after the event are NOT binding.

In neither case do I see any evidence to suggest that both players are not owed.

 

[caruso]

Here are the terms. Roulette is clearly allowed. They even refer to "withdrawing winnings" after playing roulette, lol. Note that video poker IS excluded. Roulette, however, is plainly non-restricted.

 

[kreome]

I played half a year ago and the terms were different, now roulette is allowed to play and also count towards wagering, when I played it did not count but you could play it not for the wagering.

 

[kreome]

To Bryan, i will pay you for your time either way if they pay me and if they do not and you have proof of fraud.

The casino claimed the reason of the no pay was the roulette, they never claimed even that I had multiple accounts which I do not have.

You do not need a lawer, i will pay you if it comes to be any multiple accounts issue from my side.

you say there are other people to play restricted games and then allowed games, well it happens a lot, this is well known way to take advantage of bonuses.

I do not understand Bryan, Kiss casino which is owned by the same group were under the blacklisted casinos in the past, they committed frauds that made them to be in your list, why don't you claim the they comitted a fraud ? they already did it in the past.

To remind everyone Kiss casino and Giantvegas when they were RTG delayed cashouts, cancelled cashouts and were put in the blacklist everywhere, do you think they really changed ? Well, from seeing what is going on it seems they have not changed.

 

[Casinomeister]

To Bryan, i will pay you for your time either way if they pay me and if they do not and you have proof of fraud.

The casino claimed the reason of the no pay was the roulette, they never claimed even that I had multiple accounts which I do not have.

You do not need a lawer, i will pay you if it comes to be any multiple accounts issue from my side.

you say there are other people to play restricted games and then allowed games, well it happens a lot, this is well known way to take advantage of bonuses.

I do not understand Bryan, Kiss casino which is owned by the same group were under the blacklisted casinos in the past, they committed frauds that made them to be in your list, why don't you claim the they comitted a fraud ? they already did it in the past.

To remind everyone Kiss casino and Giantvegas when they were RTG delayed cashouts, cancelled cashouts and were put in the blacklist everywhere, do you think they really changed ? Well, from seeing what is going on it seems they have not changed.

What I am concerned about is players using the fora to either blackmail casinos when they know they (the player) is in the wrong, or just trying to damage a person's business by spewing false shit (oh, the imagery). I try to take each issue as it is, as they stand, regardless if it's a former rogue - present rogue - or future rogue. Keep your money - that ain't the issue. The integrity of the board is.

It's easy to make public accusations when using an anonymous presence. But it needs to be kept in check at all times. Just because a casino screwed up in the past (and the more it looks like it - it wasn't the casino that screwed up, but someone at RTG https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/giant-vegas-vs-rtg.10105/ ) it doesn't mean you are in the clear.

I'm waiting for further information from the casino and or Jon-Jon. I was under the impression that this was a case of several accounts opened by one person. Playing patterns, playing styles, whatever, this needs clarification. If you are in the right, then we're cool. If you are not, then it's not cool.

Now it's the cusp of a weekend. I hope by Monday this issue is cleared up

 

[scrollock]

There's another player just turned up over at WOL claiming they are confiscating over $7000 off of them. They say they have PAB here.

Seems that they've played in a similar way to kreome.

casinomeister anychance you could install a function to edit previous posts ?
mine doesnt seem to work.

the reason why is because i change my mind about defending this player.

everyone can jump down on me, but reading the WOL post,it is a similair prose to the initial post here, i suspect that its the same person.

while i do not condone a casino or any gaming company screwing anyone over on circumstantial evidence, i will not come to the aid of such a person.

on this subject though, over the years i have paid out a lot of people who i knew had screwed me over, however if i couldn't prove it they got paid, for the simple reason that for every ten twats you pay out there is one who is genuine. and at the end of the day the innocent shouldn't be punished for the guilty.

 

[kreome]

I have a bad luck here. The first time I saw the message at winneronline.com was when Dirk told me that in this forum.

Maybe the player there watch mine and just copied because it is the almost the same case, I did not even have the time to look carefuly on his message.

Also if his account is mine, why would I bark on less than 5000 if I have another account with 7000, don't you think it was smarter to start with the bigger winnings than the small ones.

I am waiting for the casinomeister to check into the information he says he is waiting from the operator although the I do not believe the operator after tones of money was not paid to players from African Palace and Indio and they do not care.

 

[caruso]

I don't think they're the same. The WOL player said he'd filed a complaint with Bryan, so if there are two complaintrs as stated, that's easily proven.

If he IS the same, all that makes him guilty of is signing up at two forums under different usernames. It doesn't make him any less owed, the site's stated terms any less binding or email sleight-of-hands any less irrelevant.

EDIT: Let me reiterate those terms for clarity:

5. For play on Slots, Keno, Derby Day, 3 card poker– The wagering requirement is 20x the deposit + bonus value before withdrawing any winnings.
6. For play on Blackjack, Mega Ball, Roulette, Baccarat, Sic Bo and Craps – the wagering requirement is 40x the deposit + bonus value before withdrawing any winnings

8. Video Poker is an excluded game and may not be played until such time as the wagering requirements for this particular bonus have been met.

Crystal clear, thanks mainly to the video poker inclusion. VP is exclude, roulette is NOT.

EDIT again: Of course, these are the current terms, not those the player signed up under.

Kreome: please either post your screenshot of the terms, or if you're having resizing problems email it to me and I'll resize it and post it for you.

 

[caruso]

Here are the relevant terms. Clearly, roulette simply "does not count" and is in no way "exluded".

 

[kreome]

bryan, did you get any information from playtech regarding this

 

[Casinomeister]

bryan, did you get any information from playtech regarding this

Nope, it went off the radar screen.

 

[caruso]

From the information presented in this thread there is nothing to indicate that the player is not owed his money: he has catagorically proved that roulette was NOT an excluded game, simply that it did not count to the bonus wagering.

Many casinos do this, allow "non-bonus-counting" games to be played which don't disallow cashouts. Why? They don't WANT to discourage BJ / VP / roulette / craps players, but they want their bonuses subject to the extreme vig of slots wagering. It makes sense.

 

[kreome]

Bryan, Did they deny the info I am giving here ?

I called them and that what they told me at that time that the problem is with the Roulette

Do you have any other info as you said from Playtech or the casino or from Jon Jon

 

[Casinomeister]

Bryan, Did they deny the info I am giving here ?

I called them and that what they told me at that time that the problem is with the Roulette

Do you have any other info as you said from Playtech or the casino or from Jon Jon

Jon-Jon's a member here. Go ahead and PM him, and I'll be on their backs about this come Monday.

 

[Jon-Jon]

Hello All

I have tried all I can to remedy this issue, to no avail. I have also cancelled the contract with BetRev which is the affiliate program for Giant Vegas and Royal Dice. I will therefore no longer be associated with the program, although I will continue to try and resolve issues relating to their performance to ensure that affiliates are treated fairly.

I will not be able to be involved with player issues unfortunately, only affiliate.

All the best

 

[elscrabinda]

If I was this player I would be inspired by the efforts of tjhooker among others on the African Palace issues. African Palace I would say is a far worse casino than GV/RD and yet with persistence it looks like progress can be made even there.

And Jon-Jon, either this player deserves a full apology for you accusing him of fraud or you don't think he should get paid and so your comment about trying your hardest doesn't make sense.

 

[caruso]

Wow, that's change. You've in fact pulled your affiliate relationship with Giant Vegas on the basis of this case? I take it then that the original take on the matter - see below - was found to be entirely incorrect?

I am a consultant to betrev, and cannot post more than what I have as this matter was viewed as closed based on information that would prejudice both the player and the casinos if published, and there is no reason to go down that road. All I can say is that there are three accounts with exactly the same play, opened on the same day (along with other warning signs that they employ wrt fraud) and that is reason enough. The casino was also kind enough to refund any money and offer another free bonus. There will be no gain by the player and no change in the decision should he continue this attack, and this will be my and the casinos last communication on this matter

Bryan, when you have a moment can you post an update to all this? In the very unfortunate event that things have reached a standstill there may yet be avenues available to the player, but they can't be investigated until one is absolutely clear of the situation right here.

 

[kreome]

Well, the casino never told me that and this is the first time I see it from Jon Jon

Jon Jon emailed me I remember and never mention that fact that other 3 players opened the account and played like me at the same day.

I think by the way that this is not true, if it was true why did they always tell me that the reason is roulette, they could have told me from the casino that the reason is multiple accounts , this is a much better reason not to pay a bonus player.

I want some information about this 3 accounts opened and played the same, is it excluded games and then tri card which make sense or is it roulette and then tri card the same day ??

 

[caruso]

At the risk of stepping on toes, I'm going to mention this matter, and the Swiss Casino one, to Playtech over the next couple of days if I can find someone relevant to speak to.

Probably will achieve a big fat zero as far as the actual issues go, but it can't hurt to help throw more light on what's going on in Playtech Licensee Country.

 

[jetset]

Playtech had several managers on duty at the ICE exhibition this afternoon when I was on their stand.

 

[caruso]

That was some serious achievement that our paths didn't cross - I was there fully an hour in busy mid-afternoon...

 

[jetset]

And I have spent the past three days here (still here in fact) at ICE and on the numerous times I have cruised the main provider stands Playtech have always had several managers in attendance. It's just good for business, and they have been pretty busy at it.

I spoke with Iris on the first day of this show and she assured me that despite their inauspicious start Playtech were now focusing in more detail on a player dispute channel that works.

She has now put in place an agreement that licensees will respond to her *mediator* enquiries within 48 houtrs, and she will endeavour to either resolve issues, or at least brief the complainant on progress within 72 hours.

That's an ambitious target, but just about anything will be an improvement. And Iris knows that she and Playtech will be judged on results by the player community.

As we have so often said in the past: Time will tell.

 

[caruso]

And I have spent the past three days here (still here in fact)

Small clarification in case you misunderstood: an hour at Playtech. I was at the exhibition two out of the three days.

I also spoke at length to Iris - I posted about it in my "Platech nightmare" thread.

 

[kreome]

I sent an email to playtech still no reply

Bryan, did you get any new information ?

 

[AussieDave]

Call me stupid or whatever but I don't see the point in accepting a bonus when your game of choice does not count towards wagering requirements.

To me it just looks like a recipe for dramas if not disaster