George Zimmerman not guilty of Trayvon Martin murder

[weesie]

I don't see why they keep bringing up the "stand your ground" law.

I was not referenced or used in the trial.

 

[Balthazar]

It makes no sense. Her mistake was to return to the house, and that stopped the case being a self defence under "stand your ground".

No. According to the evidences shown in court, she had an argument with her ex husband, went to the garage, took a gun, went back in the house and fired a shot at him (but missed). That's neither self defense nor standing your ground, that's attempted murder.

However, Zimmerman did the same

No. According to the evidences shown in court, Zimmerman got out of his car, followed him, got assaulted, feared for his life and used his gun in self defense. It's not illegal to follow someone (anyone) on the street, but it's very illegal to assault someone. The "should have stayed in his car" or "should have stayed home" aren't legally (and even morally) valid points at all.

I wish people would stop twisting stories to serve their agendas.

 

[LaurieJim]

I strongly disagree about redoing the stand your ground law and would never sign a petition for it as someone who owns several firearms and has a permit to carry , I feel in the world we now live in everyone should know how to protect themselves and their families and this includes using firearms , if it comes to it.

They should have to take a gun class like I did , get a state background check and get a permit if they want to arm themselves legally.

If an intruder comes in my house wanting to do harm or rob and rape and the only thing between that person and my children is ME , I am not going to hesitate one iota in shooting the bastard and aiming right for the chest and that's no bull shit !

Yes guns kill people , that's what they are used for but it is people that have no training or permits and no respect for weapons that scares the hell out of me !

Laurie

 

[Balthazar]

If an intruder comes in my house wanting to do harm or rob and rape and the only thing between that person and my children is ME , I am not going to hesitate one iota in shooting the bastard and aiming right for the chest and that's no bull shit !

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If you think Trayvon Martin's story is something, you should read that one about Tony Martin. It's f'in unbelievable. Guy got robbed 10 times, found 2 intruders in his farm, shot one, got initially charged with murder, went to jail for 3 years without parole and now has to live in a secret location because the families of the bad guys put a price on his head.

And that didn't happen in Somalia or Nigeria...

Read it!

 

[bigjohn]

No. According to the evidences shown in court, she had an argument with her ex husband, went to the garage, took a gun, went back in the house and fired a shot at him (but missed). That's neither self defense nor standing your ground, that's attempted murder.




No. According to the evidences shown in court, Zimmerman got out of his car, followed him, got assaulted, feared for his life and used his gun in self defense. It's not illegal to follow someone (anyone) on the street, but it's very illegal to assault someone. The "should have stayed in his car" or "should have stayed home" aren't legally (and even morally) valid points at all.

I wish people would stop twisting stories to serve their agendas.

You said he was looking for a house number before. And yes it is illegal to follow someone, it's called stalking. You should take you own advice.

 

[vinylweatherman]

No. According to the evidences shown in court, she had an argument with her ex husband, went to the garage, took a gun, went back in the house and fired a shot at him (but missed). That's neither self defense nor standing your ground, that's attempted murder.




No. According to the evidences shown in court, Zimmerman got out of his car, followed him, got assaulted, feared for his life and used his gun in self defense. It's not illegal to follow someone (anyone) on the street, but it's very illegal to assault someone. The "should have stayed in his car" or "should have stayed home" isn't a valid point at all.

I wish people would stop twisting stories to serve their agendas.

Zimmerman got assaulted by someone he decided to follow. If one is allowed to use deadly force if placed in fear, then surely it applies to everyone, and so Zimmerman triggered the assault by standing his own ground rather than backing away from a confrontation by staying in his car. Had Zimmerman remained in his car, he would have been in no danger of being assaulted in the first place, and thus have no need to defend himself. It wasn't illegal to follow, but neither was it illegal to be walking to one's father's house in a gated community.

If Marissa Alexander was often assaulted by her husband, it's understandable that at some point she would snap, and try to do something about it. She claimed it was a "warning shot" designed to put fear into her husband such that he would back down rather than beat her to conclude the argument. At what point does a warning shot become an attempt to kill beyond reasonable doubt?

You can actually shoot and kill someone, yet still succeed in pleading self defence and standing your ground, yet you can fire a shot as a warning that misses, but is designed to intimidate someone into backing down, and get 20 years. Surely Zimmereman was taking quite a gamble when he got out of his car and followed, as he too stood the risk of getting 20 years, even if he had fired and missed.

It seems to me that in America there is a culture of picking up and using a gun as an automatic response to a feeling of being threatened. Here in the UK the mere possession of a gun would get you 5 years, even if you didn't pick it up, let alone threaten to use it. Far from making America safer, it has made it more dangerous as now anybody without a gun is at a distinct disadvantage in any dispute, even minor ones.

 

[LaurieJim]

In the UK, if you shoot intruders in your house you'll get charged with murder:

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Well I guess my little ass would be sitting in a jail cell but happy that I saved my family and would serve my time with no regrets !!!


Laurie

 

[LaurieJim]

Zimmerman got assaulted by someone he decided to follow. If one is allowed to use deadly force if placed in fear, then surely it applies to everyone, and so Zimmerman triggered the assault by standing his own ground rather than backing away from a confrontation by staying in his car. Had Zimmerman remained in his car, he would have been in no danger of being assaulted in the first place, and thus have no need to defend himself. It wasn't illegal to follow, but neither was it illegal to be walking to one's father's house in a gated community.

If Marissa Alexander was often assaulted by her husband, it's understandable that at some point she would snap, and try to do something about it. She claimed it was a "warning shot" designed to put fear into her husband such that he would back down rather than beat her to conclude the argument. At what point does a warning shot become an attempt to kill beyond reasonable doubt?

You can actually shoot and kill someone, yet still succeed in pleading self defence and standing your ground, yet you can fire a shot as a warning that misses, but is designed to intimidate someone into backing down, and get 20 years. Surely Zimmereman was taking quite a gamble when he got out of his car and followed, as he too stood the risk of getting 20 years, even if he had fired and missed.

It seems to me that in America there is a culture of picking up and using a gun as an automatic response to a feeling of being threatened. Here in the UK the mere possession of a gun would get you 5 years, even if you didn't pick it up, let alone threaten to use it. Far from making America safer, it has made it more dangerous as now anybody without a gun is at a distinct disadvantage in any dispute, even minor ones.

So a maniac breaks into your home and a loved one is about to get raped or maybe he just wants to visit you all , could be your daughter or niece , someone YOU love . What would you do , if you did have a gun and was trained to use it , would you blow the fxcker away and save your family and risk jail time or wait for the unarmed bobbies to arrive on the scene !!!

Laurie

 

[Balthazar]

You said he was looking for a house number before. And yes it is illegal to follow someone, it's called stalking. You should take you own advice.

I said "according to the evidences shown in court".

Stalking definition:

Pursue or approach stealthily: "a cat stalking a bird".
Harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention: "the fan stalked the actor".


I don't see following someone on the street for a short period of time in there. If you follow me on the street because you think I'm suspicious, that doesn't give me the right to attack you. And if I attack you, I hope you'll do whatever you can to save your life.

 

[Balthazar]

So a maniac breaks into your home and a loved one is about to get raped or maybe he just wants to visit you all , could be your daughter or niece , someone YOU love . What would you do , if you did have a gun and was trained to use it , would you blow the fxcker away and save your family and risk jail time or wait for the unarmed bobbies to arrive on the scene !!!

You don't understand, Laurie. It's much better if you and your nieces get raped and beaten while waiting for the police than killing a bad guy. See, the bad guys aren't the problem, guns owned by good people are.

anybody without a gun is at a distinct disadvantage in any dispute

“If God didn't make men equal, Samuel Colt did.”

 

[bigjohn]

I said "according to the evidences shown in court".

Stalking definition:

Pursue or approach stealthily: "a cat stalking a bird".
Harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention: "the fan stalked the actor".


I don't see following someone on the street for a short period of time in there. If you follow me on the street because you think I'm suspicious, that doesn't give me the right to attack you. And if I attack you, I hope you'll do whatever you can to save your life.

Stalking definition:

Pursue or approach stealthily: "a cat stalking a bird". It was dark and was Zimmerman making noises or announcing himself as a neighborhood watch?
Harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention: "the fan stalked the actor". Seems to me that shooting someone who is not committing any crime is kinda harassing and was probably unwanted by Martin.

You seem to think that because you read something on reddit or saw text messages from an unknown/unverified source that you know all the facts.

You have an opinion the Zimmerman was justified I am of the opinion that he was not. Take opinions and conjecture out of the equation and you are left with some definite truths; 1) A 17 year-old unarmed man was shot and killed while doing nothing illegal 2) If Zimmerman had stayed in his car and observed, as he was supposed to do, Martin would not have been killed.

And to your last point I don't believe Zimmerman's story, to me it doesn't make sense. I believe he grabbed Martin, trying to hold him till police arrived, Martin fought and tried to get away and Zimmerman shot him when he realized he was getting his ass kicked. That seems to fit the screams heard on the tape better, to me that sounded more like the screams of someone who was being held against their will than someone who was getting beat up.

Gun rights are okay with me but it seems we should be figuring out ways to have less people shot instead of trying to figure out more ways to justify it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

So a maniac breaks into your home and a loved one is about to get raped or maybe he just wants to visit you all , could be your daughter or niece , someone YOU love . What would you do , if you did have a gun and was trained to use it , would you blow the fxcker away and save your family and risk jail time or wait for the unarmed bobbies to arrive on the scene !!!

Laurie

The problem is that with guns so freely available in the US, one has to assume the maniac has one and is prepared to use it. This mutual escalation is what has made the US more dangerous despite the ability to have and use guns for self defence.

The UK has gone too far the other way, even non lethal means of defence such as pepper spray are illegal, one is only allowed to use one's bodily parts or every day items they manage to grab whilst being attacked, and so of course the assailant with gym membership is at a distinct advantage. The best thing one is allowed to carry is the "rape alarm", which is simply a high decibel siren that a determined attacker will simply ignore.

It would be better in the US if people had tazers rather than guns, and used these as their first line of defence (they are illegal here in the UK, just like guns and pepper spray). A tazer will put any but the most crazed maniac straight to the ground, and buy time for a victim to get out of the situation. It would usually deter a further attack. Unlike a gun, it would most likely not result in death or permanent injury. Tazers are being introduced to the UK police force as a move to "arm" everyday police patrols for their own protection, but without giving them deadly force, and breaking with tradition and giving the UK armed police.

The above scenario is one where someone would use force, even lethal force, and have a chance of being able to use "self defence" in court, but of course not with a gun, as having it would be illegal.

The case of the farmer Tony Martin created considerable controversy, and it seems his conviction was based on him firing the shots at fleeing burglars, rather than robbers who stood their ground and tried to attack him. With this, he lost the argument of reasonable force. Had they advanced towards him up the stairs and he shot them as they came closer, he probably would have been found to have used reasonable force, and not been found guilty. He would still have been charged with having an illegal firearm, so the end result would not have been much different, he would still probably have gone to jail.

 

[kauphy]

guilty or not it still gives no one a right to start beating the crap out of every white person they see.

that is just wrong. i did,nt see any whites go out and shoot any little black babys when those two black thugs shot that 18 month old in the face and killed him.

nor did i hear very much about it on the news altho i don,t watch t.v and would,nt watch any news caz they are biased but still there was no outcry and obama

did,nt get involded saying if he had a son he would look like that little boy.

no all this was for was to divide the races more then what him and al sharpton and jessie jackson already has.

it is sad that the u.s has fallen this far.

 

[bigjohn]

guilty or not it still gives no one a right to start beating the crap out of every white person they see.

that is just wrong. i did,nt see any whites go out and shoot any little black babys when those two black thugs shot that 18 month old in the face and killed him.

nor did i hear very much about it on the news altho i don,t watch t.v and would,nt watch any news caz they are biased but still there was no outcry and obama

did,nt get involded saying if he had a son he would look like that little boy.

no all this was for was to divide the races more then what him and al sharpton and jessie jackson already has.

it is sad that the u.s has fallen this far.

How many white people did Trayvon beat up? I didn't know he beat up every white person he saw.

Try to take all the color out of it, everybody is gray.

You and your son go over to visit someone, your son says, "Hey Mom, I'm gonna run to 7-11, I'll be right back..." He commits no crime along the way but an hour later you find out he has been shot dead by a self appointed neighborhood watchman.

I can see NO possible justification for that given what we know and what has been presented.

If he came home with some bumps and bruises, if you got a call that he has been arrested, if the police came to your door with him asking if he belongs here, fine. But dead? No way.

 

[LaurieJim]

I think this thread has given some of us some insight on many issues , most of all , one person is dead and another man's life will never be the same.

The trial has ended and the verdict passed down by a jury of peers and we have to respect that , even if you do not agree. This is our judicial system , it may not have turned out the way you wanted but its over.

We are all creatures on this earth for such a short time and should treat each other with respect and empathy.


Laurie

 

[weesie]

How many white people did Trayvon beat up? I didn't know he beat up every white person he saw.

Try to take all the color out of it, everybody is gray.

You and your son go over to visit someone, your son says, "Hey Mom, I'm gonna run to 7-11, I'll be right back..." He commits no crime along the way but an hour later you find out he has been shot dead by a self appointed neighborhood watchman.

I can see NO possible justification for that given what we know and what has been presented.

If he came home with some bumps and bruises, if you got a call that he has been arrested, if the police came to your door with him asking if he belongs here, fine. But dead? No way.

No comparison:

TM did NOT go right back home. His dad didn't even know until he called the police to report him missing at about 2 in the morning. The confrontation was much earlier in the evening.

 

[bigjohn]

No comparison:

TM did NOT go right back home. His dad didn't even know until he called the police to report him missing at about 2 in the morning. The confrontation was much earlier in the evening.

Of course he didn't go right home, he got shot.

OK, so instead of finding out an hour later you find out 7 hours later. No one has put forth any evidence or even any suggestion that TM was involved in any type of malevolent behavior during that time.

So where was the death penalty carried out by Zimmerman justified?

Because he got beat up by somebody he was stalking? And yes, I call it stalking because Zimmerman never identified himself as any kind of authority so from Martin's viewpoint he was being stalked by a stranger.

I am just going to admit to myself that my feelings on this matter are not shared by everyone. People have strong feelings on both sides and that's just the way it is.

 

[kauphy]

How many white people did Trayvon beat up? I didn't know he beat up every white person he saw.

Try to take all the color out of it, everybody is gray.

You and your son go over to visit someone, your son says, "Hey Mom, I'm gonna run to 7-11, I'll be right back..." He commits no crime along the way but an hour later you find out he has been shot dead by a self appointed neighborhood watchman.

I can see NO possible justification for that given what we know and what has been presented.

If he came home with some bumps and bruises, if you got a call that he has been arrested, if the police came to your door with him asking if he belongs here, fine. But dead? No way.

i was,nt evem talking about trayvon i was talking about all the people that have been beaten and some of them almost beaten to death since this happen.

just caz someobody got shot and killed does not give that race a right to go and beat every white person they see. i wonder what would have happen had every white person went out and beat someone black when o.j was found not guilty?

and what about all those potesters that would not let that lady take her g-daughter to the hospital? that is bullshit everyone from the media to al jessie and obama got into this.

and no one should have what set this apart from any other shooting? that is what i meant.

 

[bigjohn]

i was,nt evem talking about trayvon i was talking about all the people that have been beaten and some of them almost beaten to death since this happen.

just caz someobody got shot and killed does not give that race a right to go and beat every white person they see. i wonder what would have happen had every white person went out and beat someone black when o.j was found not guilty?

and what about all those potesters that would not let that lady take her g-daughter to the hospital? that is bullshit everyone from the media to al jessie and obama got into this.

and no one should have what set this apart from any other shooting? that is what i meant.

Oh, okay, never mind then. I thought this thread was about whether Zimmerman was justified in killing Martin.

 

[kauphy]

Oh, okay, never mind then. I thought this thread was about whether Zimmerman was justified in killing Martin.[/QUOT

no reason to get nasty big john.

what i said does fit into this thread.

 

[bigjohn]

Oh, okay, never mind then. I thought this thread was about whether Zimmerman was justified in killing Martin.[/QUOT

no reason to get nasty big john.

what i said does fit into this thread.

You are right, please accept my apology. This issue has touched me deeply.