George Zimmerman not guilty of Trayvon Martin murder

[LaurieJim]

I think this whole thing has just been so bad for the nation as a whole , I feel that GZ was not guilty , I have empathy for the parents of Martin and also for the family of GZ as he will have to live with this all his life , whilst another family will never see their son grow into a man , it is sad every way you look at it, no one is a winner in this case.

@Cleveland , I have great respect for you as your job is to protect and serve and for this I say thank you personally for putting your life on the line everyday !

I am sorry about the 2 UK citizens killed while in Miami , I too had never heard about this on the national news until now , this is what we have in our country, Media biased reporting and this I also find disturbing not keeping the American people informed , guess it was not news worthy as Mrs. Obama's trip to Ireland with her daughters or what will be the gender of Kate and Williams new baby.

Laurie

 

[dunover]

I think this whole thing has just been so bad for the nation as a whole , I feel that GZ was not guilty , I have empathy for the parents of Martin and also for the family of GZ as he will have to live with this all his life , whilst another family will never see their son grow into a man , it is sad every way you look at it, no one is a winner in this case.

@Cleveland , I have great respect for you as your job is to protect and serve and for this I say thank you personally for putting your life on the line everyday !

I am sorry about the 2 UK citizens killed while in Miami , I too had never heard about this on the national news until now , this is what we have in our country, Media biased reporting and this I also find disturbing not keeping the American people informed , guess it was not news worthy as Mrs. Obama's trip to Ireland with her daughters or what will be the gender of Kate and Williams new baby.

Laurie

Unfortunately this is the case here in the UK too. If a story is inconvenient for the purposes of promoting the 'benefits' of a multicultural society then it will get little or no coverage unless inescapable. Their 'truth' is YOUR truth. Recent examples being the organized muslim racist rape, torture and abuse of vulnerable white underage girls across several towns. The national media used every word possible 'mainly of Pakistani origin' being the most common for the paedophiles except admit this was a cultural issue. We still hear about the Stephen Lawrence murder almost weekly in some context or other, yet the 200+ immigrant murders of indigenous people since then are forgotten. So yes, I am deeply cynical about the media and their motives, and their willingness to place political correctness above objective and truthful reporting.

I take it you checked my story out then re. the Miami murders?

 

[GrandMaster]

Blame the prosecution. If they could have made hay from this, they should have. Plus, unlike Trayvon's texts, this was 7 years earlier. It would have backfired, handing the defence an argument along the lines of "The defendant made mistakes in the past, and has clearly learned from them as his flawless record since exemplifies.."

'might' and 'sound like' are conjecturous. No good for the prosecution as they scream 'doubt'. That is why Zimmerman was cleared of murder. 'Reasonable doubt'. Unfortunately for the fire and pitchfork brigade here, we have a proper justice system in the Anglosphere.

The defendant's criminal history is not admissible as evidence, the prosecution could not have used it, which you presumably know.

The verdict was probably correct because the Florida legislature just made it too easy to kill someone and then to claim self-defence, this is my big concern.

 

[Balthazar]

Ttotally irrelevant to the question whether his killing was legitimate self-defence by Zimmerman or not.

That's pretty damn relevant to me. They initially portrayed him as a Skittles eating kid that wouldn't hurt a fly and couldn't have attacked Zimmerman; texts show that he was a thug dealing pot and illegal firearms. He's got kicked out of school and kicked out of his mom's house.

The kind of pic that they didn't show in the mainstream media, because it would ruin the sensationalism:

there was no evidence of him being involved in any crime when he was shot.

the Florida legislature just made it too easy to kill someone and then to claim self-defence

 

[dunover]

What worries me about the whole affair, especially for the fire and pitchfork brigade, is that a basic tenet of justice seems to be getting ignored here. Of course this would be the fact the defendant is presumed INNOCENT until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. As some have said, there is so much doubt with relatively little proof that he was always going to be found not guilty. Had the deceased been white, I sincerely believe this show trial would never have taken place, in fact you'd all never have even heard of the shooting.

Unfortunately when your president shows so little wit and plays the race card 'Trayvon could have been my son' sort of guff it was inevitable all sorts of grovelers, lawyers and pressure groups were going to bang the drums, pick up the pitchforks and go to town on the matter. This is the result - a show trial where the inevitable verdict has just served to inflame more pitchforkers. And I thought under your constitution the executive should be safely detached from the judiciary?

Anyway, our opinions are just that and they matter little. The only ones that do were those of the 12 jurors. Don't tell me, now the pitchforkers will be saying they were all Klansmen?

 

[LaurieJim]

Unfortunately this is the case here in the UK too. If a story is inconvenient for the purposes of promoting the 'benefits' of a multicultural society then it will get little or no coverage unless inescapable. Their 'truth' is YOUR truth. Recent examples being the organized muslim racist rape, torture and abuse of vulnerable white underage girls across several towns. The national media used every word possible 'mainly of Pakistani origin' being the most common for the paedophiles except admit this was a cultural issue. We still hear about the Stephen Lawrence murder almost weekly in some context or other, yet the 200+ immigrant murders of indigenous people since then are forgotten. So yes, I am deeply cynical about the media and their motives, and their willingness to place political correctness above objective and truthful reporting.

I take it you checked my story out then re. the Miami murders?

Yes I did , talked with a friend and her husband who are spending the summer here at the resort, who are from the same town in Florida that the incident took place, they assured me that this goes on alot in the Miami area , no or little news coverage except if it is something that will bring in huge ratings or promote their agenda, media wise.

Laurie

 

[dunover]

The defendant's criminal history is not admissible as evidence, the prosecution could not have used it, which you presumably know.

The verdict was probably correct because the Florida legislature just made it too easy to kill someone and then to claim self-defence, this is my big concern.

Nor is the deceased's either.

What do you mean 'probably' correct? It was correct whichever way it went, because it was reached by 12 independent jurors in possession of all the facts.

 

[Cleveland]

The crux of the problem is that there are no consequences to speak of for children's bad behavior . They aren't disciplined at home, school or in the justice system.

Trayvon expected no consequences for beating the #$%$ out of Zimmerman. He had many other options.

"""He could have gone home.""" They said in the trial he was within a "football throw" of his home. """"He had a phone; he could have called 911. """"He could have had his girlfriend call 911 for him.

He could have run to the nearest well lit area. He could have run to a location where others were present. He could have run to a neighbor's house. He could have knocked and asked for help at the nearest stranger's home.

He could have civilly asked Zimmerman why he was following him and explained that he lived nearby. He could have asked Zimmerman to call the police to straighten out the misunderstanding.

Instead he chose to whip Zimmerman's rear. When a person chooses combat, he is gambling with his own life. He is voluntarily laying his life on the line. Trayvon gambled with his life and lost. Thankfully an individual still has the right to invoke consequences when he feels he is being beaten to death.

Well said.

 

[Cleveland]

First off Cleveland TY : Iv'e been trying to decide how to explain what I feel has happened with this case.

Let's first remove the race factor in this case.

OK Yes Zimmerman called in to the police- first mistake he got out of the car. Why 911 did not say stay in vehicle if you don't know address and give us cross streets I don't understand. Cleveland will understand why I say this.

After this event - how long did it take before charges were filed? (This tells me they were looking into eveidence and were having difficulty in deciding the charges and or if they should). Cleveland will also understand this statement.

Why did they go for Murder 2-- to prove that beyond a doubt would have been impossible in this case -- hence the not guilty verdict.

Why was Zimmerman covered with the cuts and scrapes only? - Let's say he did grab the kid- there should have been more then just Zimmerman with marks.

now let's put the race factor back in-- now there is an outcry for justice -- to calm the situation they need to prosecute. They go for the biggest charge- knowing they would never get the conviction. But hey they did their jobs.

NO one will ever know what truly happened that night- it is a tragedy.. However with so many points not being proven are justice system did the right thing. You don't have to like the verdict and many don't but what you need to realize is proven beyond doubt is the key term. At this they failed.

Also one thing you need to remember don't believe everything you see on the news and read --

We had a case here about 7 years ago a star basketball player who the news said was a honor roll student and as angelic as can be --- was shot and killed... This kid had a 20 page rap sheet and the only reason we couldn't release it was because he was a dam minor. So they played this story up for a month on the news- So my point is there are things you are not aware of and may never be aware of behind the scenes.

Hey cpdnd31. I know you are but my memory may be failing me, isn't your husband also a police officer or in some form of law enforcement or was at some point?

This trail verdict and handling of the case overall will bring up problems for that area in terms of similar crimes. The initial conversation with 911 was disturbing to me, and our dispatchers would have been a bit more blunt in their handling of him and in the instructions. Dispatch however goes through their own mental stress, so I'm not blaming them. I'm just saying from all angles this case is simply a nightmare the way it happened, and the way it was handled. It's very easily one of those incidents, had any one party (Martin or GZ) did what they should, it wouldn't have happened.

The fact that GZ said Martin ran off during the initial 911 call, also screams red flag. At that point it should be no reason for y'all to come back across each others path, unless Martin doubles back, but even still you should be in your car, especially if for no other reason, the fact that you lost sight of him.

Stay in your car wait for police. A lot harder to get beat up, if you stay in your car, and wait for police. Outside of the other party breaking your windows, or pulling a gun on you, it's a lot harder for them to get to you. And then lastly if they did approach, simply drive off.

I'm thankful there weren't any riots, or immediate fall out from this. As of late we have been on edge with other recent events out here.

 

[BingoT]

Obama Admin Files Federal Charges Against George Zimmerman Following Acquittal in Shooting Murder of Trayvon Martin
July 13, 2013
From: National Report


trayvon-martin

NRLogoStarBlack2Just when we thought the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case was over following Zimmerman’s acquittal, the Obama Administration has taken the steps needed to file federal charges, thus sidestepping the well established, against Zimmerman. Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman for “violating Trayvon Martin’s civil rights”.

Double jeopardy is an often misunderstood concept in American Law. The rule merely states that an individual cannot be tried twice for the same crime in the SAME COURT. Liberal Justice Department officials often charge Americans with crimes from which they have previously been acquitted by filing federal charges on a similar crime in a federal court.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

 

[LaurieJim]

Hey cpdnd31. I know you are but my memory may be failing me, isn't your husband also a police officer or in some form of law enforcement or was at some point?

This trail verdict and handling of the case overall will bring up problems for that area in terms of similar crimes. The initial conversation with 911 was disturbing to me, and our dispatchers would have been a bit more blunt in their handling of him and in the instructions. Dispatch however goes through their own mental stress, so I'm not blaming them. I'm just saying from all angles this case is simply a nightmare the way it happened, and the way it was handled. It's very easily one of those incidents, had any one party (Martin or GZ) did what they should, it wouldn't have happened.

The fact that GZ said Martin ran off during the initial 911 call, also screams red flag. At that point it should be no reason for y'all to come back across each others path, unless Martin doubles back, but even still you should be in your car, especially if for no other reason, the fact that you lost sight of him.

Stay in your car wait for police. A lot harder to get beat up, if you stay in your car, and wait for police. Outside of the other party breaking your windows, or pulling a gun on you, it's a lot harder for them to get to you. And then lastly if they did approach, simply drive off.

I'm thankful there weren't any riots, or immediate fall out from this. As of late we have been on edge with other recent events out here.

@ Cleveland or another officer member, this is off topic but maybe will help another forum member later on, this is my Question.

A friend of mine was driving down the road , not many houses around and an under cover cop tried to pull her over for what she did not know was a bad brake light, she did not pull over until 8 miles later when she got into the city limits and was met by 4 squad cars, city police.
They wanted to give her a ticket for failing to pull over but she won her argument that the law says if you are unsure you do not have to pull over until you get to a lighted , public area and that she had called 911 to see if there was anyone police on that route before she was met by a small army of cops.

My question to you or other officers , she got a lot of flack for doing what I think was the right thing to do , being a single woman on a lonely road , is this the right procedure to do when you feel threatened and do not know what to do?

As I said , I know it is off topic in a way , but feel that this might be of help to other forum member drivers if you would go a bit more in depth regarding the comment you made above.

Thanks,
Laurie

 

[LaurieJim]

[B]Obama Admin Files Federal Charges Against George Zimmerman Following Acquittal in Shooting Murder of Trayvon Martin[/B]
July 13, 2013
From: National Report


trayvon-martin

NRLogoStarBlack2Just when we thought the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case was over following Zimmerman’s acquittal, the Obama Administration has taken the steps needed to file federal charges, thus sidestepping the well established, against Zimmerman. Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman for “violating Trayvon Martin’s civil rights”.

Double jeopardy is an often misunderstood concept in American Law. The rule merely states that an individual cannot be tried twice for the same crime in the SAME COURT. Liberal Justice Department officials often charge Americans with crimes from which they have previously been acquitted by filing federal charges on a similar crime in a federal court.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Why am I not shocked by this !!


Laurie

 

[Balthazar]

Obama Admin Files Federal Charges Against George Zimmerman Following Acquittal in Shooting Murder of Trayvon Martin
July 13, 2013
From: National Report


trayvon-martin

NRLogoStarBlack2Just when we thought the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case was over following Zimmerman’s acquittal, the Obama Administration has taken the steps needed to file federal charges, thus sidestepping the well established, against Zimmerman. Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman for “violating Trayvon Martin’s civil rights”.

Double jeopardy is an often misunderstood concept in American Law. The rule merely states that an individual cannot be tried twice for the same crime in the SAME COURT. Liberal Justice Department officials often charge Americans with crimes from which they have previously been acquitted by filing federal charges on a similar crime in a federal court.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Is there anyone on this planet who honestly believe that we'd see all this crap if Zimmerman and Martin were both black or both white?

 

[LaurieJim]

Obama Admin Files Federal Charges Against George Zimmerman Following Acquittal in Shooting Murder of Trayvon Martin
July 13, 2013
From: National Report


trayvon-martin

NRLogoStarBlack2Just when we thought the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case was over following Zimmerman’s acquittal, the Obama Administration has taken the steps needed to file federal charges, thus sidestepping the well established, against Zimmerman. Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman for “violating Trayvon Martin’s civil rights”.

Double jeopardy is an often misunderstood concept in American Law. The rule merely states that an individual cannot be tried twice for the same crime in the SAME COURT. Liberal Justice Department officials often charge Americans with crimes from which they have previously been acquitted by filing federal charges on a similar crime in a federal court.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman for “violating Trayvon Martin’s civil rights”.

They are just looking into if they have enough evidence to support a civil rights violation , nothing has been done as of yet !

Laurie

 

[Balthazar]

Why am I not shocked by this !!


Laurie

You forgot to highlight Eric Holder in that quote.

 

[weesie]

@ Cleveland or another officer member, this is off topic but maybe will help another forum member later on, this is my Question.

A friend of mine was driving down the road , not many houses around and an under cover cop tried to pull her over for what she did not know was a bad brake light, she did not pull over until 8 miles later when she got into the city limits and was met by 4 squad cars, city police.
They wanted to give her a ticket for failing to pull over but she won her argument that the law says if you are unsure you do not have to pull over until you get to a lighted , public area and that she had called 911 to see if there was anyone police on that route before she was met by a small army of cops.

My question to you or other officers , she got a lot of flack for doing what I think was the right thing to do , being a single woman on a lonely road , is this the right procedure to do when you feel threatened and do not know what to do?

As I said , I know it is off topic in a way , but feel that this might be of help to other forum member drivers if you would go a bit more in depth regarding the comment you made above.

Thanks,
Laurie

Hi Laurie,

At this very time, a neighboring city near us is having this very problem. Someone is posing as a cop and trying, sometimes successfully pulling people over then harming them.

If it were me, on the road alone, especially at night, no, I would not stop until I was in a city or something.

 

[bigjohn]

Nor is the deceased's either.

What do you mean 'probably' correct? It was correct whichever way it went, because it was reached by 12 independent jurors in possession of all the facts.

It was actually 6 jurors in possession of all the facts as presented.

 

[Cleveland]

@ Cleveland or another officer member, this is off topic but maybe will help another forum member later on, this is my Question.

A friend of mine was driving down the road , not many houses around and an under cover cop tried to pull her over for what she did not know was a bad brake light, she did not pull over until 8 miles later when she got into the city limits and was met by 4 squad cars, city police.
They wanted to give her a ticket for failing to pull over but she won her argument that the law says if you are unsure you do not have to pull over until you get to a lighted , public area and that she had called 911 to see if there was anyone police on that route before she was met by a small army of cops.

My question to you or other officers , she got a lot of flack for doing what I think was the right thing to do , being a single woman on a lonely road , is this the right procedure to do when you feel threatened and do not know what to do?

As I said , I know it is off topic in a way , but feel that this might be of help to other forum member drivers if you would go a bit more in depth regarding the comment you made above.

Thanks,
Laurie

She did the correct thing. Many cases of people pretending to be police, then pulling women over, and assaulting them.

First thing though, turn on your vehicle's hazard lights, and slow your speed considerably. It will show the officer your intent. True you will likely be met by multiple police officers because at that point we have to play it safe, just as you're playing it safe. The other thing you should do after those steps, is to contact 911. The call will ping off the nearest station area. Meaning the nearest area with a police dispatch. Ask them if they have a unit attempting to do a traffic stop at the location you're traveling down. Officers are typically required (per their agency's policy...which might be different from place to place) to call out with dispatch for the traffic stop, for safety reasons, as well as accountability. If dispatch is unable to confirm, they will tell you to not pull over until they can confirm, or until they can get one of their units to you. It could be another agency trying to pull you over, so dispatch might not know, but they will send a unit to you.

I'm a big believer in safety first. An Officer with half a brain will understand what you were trying to do. If he does cite you, then as you said, you will likely win in court, unless the judge is also working with less than a full deck.

I'm unsure of an acceptable travel distance. If you're out in the middle of no where so to speak, and are driving to the nearest city, I'm unsure of how far is too far. I would be curious as to hear cpdnd31's thoughts on this, as a women and police officer, or if her agency handles these incidents differently than ours. I can only think of one time I encountered this, and it was on another officers traffic stop. We let the lady go without a citation, after she explained what she was doing.

Sorry for being so long winded. Also keep in mind, once stopped the officers might order you out of the vehicle at gun point. Now is not the time to plead your case. Just follow the instructions, and they will give you the opportunity to explain. Their first concern will be for their own safety, and from their stand point, they are thinking they just had a slow pursuit.

 

[Cleveland]

Is there anyone on this planet who honestly believe that we'd see all this crap if Zimmerman and Martin were both black or both white?

Finally we agree . Took a while but better late than never.

 

[cpdnd31]

Yes Cleveland my husband is a police officer and I was one. There are so many aspects of this case that disturb me as well. I just tried to make it as simple as possible for others to understand there is more to it then what they saw and or heard.

Laurie: If ever you feel it is not a safe area to pull over - call 911 and let them know they will dispatch to police car usually, the key is to reduce speed to let the officers know that you are not trying to evade. Also it is best to pull over at the first well lit area.

For those that don't know dispatch is a police officers best friend. They try to keep us safe as well as you. They do get over whelmed at times and when your answering 5 calls at once and one is someone who you can't understand it gets hectic. I do feel dispatch did fail big time on this Zimmerman case. But who knows what was happening at the time.

 

[cpdnd31]

You know the sad thing this case ain't over it's just beginning. Unreal civil rights violation now. Look Zimmerman is a goof wanna be cop-- and a accident happened however if it was a Chinese kid that got killed would they be filing civil rights suits.. Why must our nations past consistently block our nations future. I just don't get it. Your Black I'm white who cares we are all human ..... why is our justice system being treated this way? It's ridiculous. Let's open the gateway for all to say wait no he wasn't found guilty but the press thinks he is so now we need to do more. It's a sad day in our country....

 

[Cleveland]

You know the sad thing this case ain't over it's just beginning. Unreal civil rights violation now. Look Zimmerman is a goof wanna be cop-- and a accident happened however if it was a Chinese kid that got killed would they be filing civil rights suits.. Why must our nations past consistently block our nations future. I just don't get it. Your Black I'm white who cares we are all human ..... why is our justice system being treated this way? It's ridiculous. Let's open the gateway for all to say wait no he wasn't found guilty but the press thinks he is so now we need to do more. It's a sad day in our country....

I agree. I'm just not sure what it will take to fix it. A great leader would be a start but that's another topic of discussion.

 

[Balthazar]

For those who believe that you should always call the police and not do anything:

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(neither in the US nor Canada). You can't ask people to strictly count on the police to protect themselves nor to hold them accountable when they don't.

So "waiting for the police to come" is a good suggestion but it's only that, a suggestion. You cannot say in court that someone didn't wait for the police and use this against him.

 

[Cleveland]

For those who believe that you should always call the police and not do anything:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(neither in the US nor Canada). You can't ask people to strictly count on the police to protect themselves nor to hold them accountable when they don't.

So "waiting for the police to come" is a good suggestion but it's only that, a suggestion. You cannot say in court that someone didn't wait for the police and use this against him.

You can't use not waiting for police against them, but GZ also doesn't have any legal authority to follow someone. In Texas it's called the first harmful event.

That line of thinking leads to vigilantism. In terms of waiting for police though most here probably already know my stance on it. That applies to your life or someone else being in danger. Martin hadn't committed a crime, he was there legally, and he wasn't in the process of hurting anyone. You wait for the police in that scenario. Someone breaks into your home, you don't hope police arrive to protect you....no....you call them, but then you defend your family and home. We aren't waiting on your street corner, response times vary. Hopefully we will arrive in time.

And we actually are required to act. Might survive a criminal and even civil proceeding, but your agency will still hit you with dereliction of duty, and you would be fired.

Side note: Martin was profiled. I'm not allowed to do it, yet a citizen felt he should be allowed to, which was clear by his commits to the dispatcher. Same citizen would scream bloody murder if he thought I stopped him because he appeared to be a Hispanic in the wrong neighborhood.

The case details can be argued back and forth. I for one will never side with Martin, nor will I side with GZ. The fact remains both did wrong. Both were stupid, and both had bad intentions. Martin could have walked away, he clearly chose poorly. GZ followed, he knew he was armed, which is why he felt secure in getting out of his damn car. He thought Martin was up to no good. He had no articulable pc as to why, and that was made clear in the initial dispatch transcript. Suspicious person has a very solid legal meaning, and what Martin was doing alone wouldn't have gave me reason to detain him. Curfew maybe depending on area, and of course there are always city ordinances or state laws an officer can use to make the stop. Point remains we wouldn't have had good reason to legally detain him, other than the fact we were called. The reasons he used to stop someone, would be reasons an officer would be complained on.

And as has been mentioned GZ record isn't clean, and it paints a bad picture of his mindset. Resisting arrest? Really? Any person who fights an officer is a.....well I'll leave that alone. I've said it before, you fight your case in court, not in the streets. He is lucky to be alive himself.

 

[cpdnd31]

TY again Cleveland for summarizing my thoughts.

Also as police if we see a crime and or act being committed by law we are required to act upon it. They don't care if we have are kids with us or not. The last thing I ever want when I am out with my family is for anyone to know we are the police.

The key point here is imminent danger. If your life is in danger you must do what you need to do to protect yourself. Example ; someone breaks into your home while you are there - you have enough time to call police and the robber confronts you in this situation yes you have a right to defend yourself and your family. Loss of life and or bodily harm gives you that right.

just because you are being followed yes you are scared yes you may be attacked but until the motion of the attack occurs the only thing you can do is call 911 and report it.
(why did he get out of the dam car)

Also Cleveland my favorite way of getting someone when we needed to was license plate lite burnt out -- worked every time . LOL


I hope I explained that the way I wanted too --