Gamstop, operators refusing to re-open accounts when self-exclusion ends

[CasinoNinja]

So if I have deposit limits put on my account you call me a problem gambler? It's called a responsible gambler more than anything. Gamble with only funds you can afford to lose and putting limits on your account is a great tool to help you do this so you don't go overboard.

Do you never budget? I would say its the same way, just put a limit on the spending and you know you won't go over your budget.
Same could be said for having a break for 6 months, you know you are saving for something or whatever and you self exclude for 6 months, not because you might have gambled all that potential money away but you have the ease of mind that you won't be able to, should you attempt to do it.

 

[Aryol]

I would love to see some research supporting your claim that nearly all players have a gambling problem, as this simply goes against all research I've seen. And certainly against my experience as a player and from the industry.

I want to clarify my view, I look at this like any other addiction. The base of them is mostly the endorphins while gambling / ... this is also the reason some player increasing their stake for a "better" feeling. And the UKGC made a health report (2016) and identified 0.7 % of the English population / 1.2 % of gamblers as problem gamblers. Of course, their numbers are not wrong, if we get deeper into the report we can even tell that every tenth man has a little gambling problem (womens tend to play more careful).

But still, I stay to my statement that nearly all or at least a big part has gambling problems. They can be really small and are not being identified as a problem. But when someone deposits 20 € and he initially wanted deposit 10 €, then this is a problem gambler - even if he is not at the same stage with someone who gambled his house away (this is my view!)

I am honest, I see myself as a problem gambler. Never in debt, can pay my bills and have enough for good food and weekend trips. Still I deposit 2-3 times in a row if nothing comes, I do not believe that this is the behaviour I would have in my early days. Earlier I deposited 5 € and 20 € was a jackpot for me. I only know a few people who still deposit low amounts, many raised it at least to 20 € deposits.

Some can hold it down better and maybe never stake over 0,40 € per spin. And other players raising it pretty fast to 1-2 € per spin. And then real crazy ones playing 20+ € per spin...

 

[trancemonkey]

What Is Problem Gambling

Not all people who gamble excessively are alike, nor are the problems they face. People with gambling problems are found in all age groups, income groups, cultures and jobs. Some people develop gambling problems suddenly, others over many years.

There are many reasons why a gambling problem may develop. For example, some people develop problems when they try to win back money they have lost, or because they like to be “in the action.” Others have many life stresses that make gambling a welcome relief.

Problem gambling is not just about losing money. Gambling problems can affect a person’s whole life.
Gambling is a problem when it:

• Gets in the way of work, school or other activities
• Harms your mental or physical health
• Hurts you financially
• Damages your reputation
• Causes problems with your family or friends

I don't think depositing 20 instead of 10 is a definition of a problem gambler, unless that extra 10 causes them financial problems.
If i deposit 10 quid in to Betfair, bet on Birmingham City - and they lose. So i deposit another tenner (which i didn't WANT to do, cos i hoped they would win) you're suggesting that makes me a problem gambler? That's just ridiculous...

 

[Halvor]

I don't think depositing 20 instead of 10 is a definition of a problem gambler, unless that extra 10 causes them financial problems.
If i deposit 10 quid in to Betfair, bet on Birmingham City - and they lose. So i deposit another tenner (which i didn't WANT to do, cos i hoped they would win) you're suggesting that makes me a problem gambler? That's just ridiculous...

Exactly. Just as bet sizes cant be used to determine if someone got a gambling issue.

Player A might have a budget that justifies betting €0.20 per spin. While for player Crazy a €20 bet per spin actually have less of an impact on their life and finances.

 

[Borgie]

FREE ONLINE SELF-EXCLUSION
GAMSTOP lets you put controls in place to restrict your online gambling activities.

You will be prevented from using gambling websites and apps run by companies licensed in Great Britain, for a period of your choosing.

This is what Gamstop says so surely this is what it should do no more no less ?

 

[trancemonkey]

FREE ONLINE SELF-EXCLUSION
GAMSTOP lets you put controls in place to restrict your online gambling activities.

You will be prevented from using gambling websites and apps run by companies licensed in Great Britain, for a period of your choosing.

This is what Gamstop says so surely this is what it should do no more no less ?

Half of this thread makes no sense - and is going around in circles.
GamStop is NOT permanent. It's for 6 months, 1 year or 5 years currently, i believe.
If a player is having a problem with GamStop, they should contact GamStop. Simple as that.
There is clearly an error somewhere either with the GamStop system, or Virgin.
As someone else quite rightly pointed out, has the OP tried any other accounts with other groups? That would likely show where the fault was.
Going round in circles making false accusations about what GamStop is / isn't benefits no-one.

There really isn't much to discuss here over and above what has been said.

 

[trancemonkey]

Exactly. Just as bet sizes cant be used to determine if someone got a gambling issue.

Player A might have a budget that justifies betting €0.20 per spin. While for player Crazy a €20 bet per spin actually have less of an impact on their life and finances.

Changes in Bet Size can... but agree, normal bet sizes can't.

 

[Halvor]

Changes in Bet Size can... but agree, normal bet sizes can't.

Yes of course, a player betting €0.10 one day and €5 is obviously a potential problem.

To clarify, a customer gradually over years going from lets say a €0.10 bet to €1 bet. Can alone not be used as an indicator

 

[goatwack]

Gamstop is a last resort for self-admitted problem gamblers, though it ought to really be called Gamstop Lite for all the good it does. Using it is like witnessing a game of Chinese Whispers, player requests one thing, casinos half-arsedly implement the info, and the end result is something quite different

I agree most have some form of gambling 'issues', but the likes of Deposit Limits & TABs I see more as impulse controls. But the fact remains that a player SEing across the board and thinking they're cured via Gamstop, then actively hunting down any type of casino that'll have 'em, needs to take accountability

 

[mack341]

I don't think depositing 20 instead of 10 is a definition of a problem gambler, unless that extra 10 causes them financial problems.
If i deposit 10 quid in to Betfair, bet on Birmingham City - and they lose. So i deposit another tenner (which i didn't WANT to do, cos i hoped they would win) you're suggesting that makes me a problem gambler? That's just ridiculous...

I agree, but who was suggesting this? It's been a bit tricky following this thread, kind of see both sides to the argument but to be successful, Gamstop has to got to have a flexible approach and be for use by anybody not just those seeking to stop permanently. I suppose casinos are frightened of fines though for having any potential problem gamblers using their products

Edit: no need to answer now, just seen it was in aryol's post. I suppose it could be the beginning of problems but no one's got such an iron will that they won't be tempted to do an extra £10 bet, it's too high a standard for a definition of a problem gambler.

 

[Aryol]

What Is Problem Gambling

Not all people who gamble excessively are alike, nor are the problems they face. People with gambling problems are found in all age groups, income groups, cultures and jobs. Some people develop gambling problems suddenly, others over many years.

There are many reasons why a gambling problem may develop. For example, some people develop problems when they try to win back money they have lost, or because they like to be “in the action.” Others have many life stresses that make gambling a welcome relief.

Problem gambling is not just about losing money. Gambling problems can affect a person’s whole life.
Gambling is a problem when it:

• Gets in the way of work, school or other activities
• Harms your mental or physical health
• Hurts you financially
• Damages your reputation
• Causes problems with your family or friends

I don't think depositing 20 instead of 10 is a definition of a problem gambler, unless that extra 10 causes them financial problems.
If i deposit 10 quid in to Betfair, bet on Birmingham City - and they lose. So i deposit another tenner (which i didn't WANT to do, cos i hoped they would win) you're suggesting that makes me a problem gambler? That's just ridiculous...

It was one example and the message was not the "extra 10", the message was that the gambler initially wanted to spend a lower amount. And writing headlines in big red makes you not more important.

And it was also the increase of stake over time, not just 0,1 € or 1,0 €. This is how addictions ... but you can make a nice red post to that topic too

 

[mack341]

I want to clarify my view, I look at this like any other addiction. The base of them is mostly the endorphins while gambling / ... this is also the reason some player increasing their stake for a "better" feeling. And the UKGC made a health report (2016) and identified 0.7 % of the English population / 1.2 % of gamblers as problem gamblers. Of course, their numbers are not wrong, if we get deeper into the report we can even tell that every tenth man has a little gambling problem (womens tend to play more careful).

But still, I stay to my statement that nearly all or at least a big part has gambling problems. They can be really small and are not being identified as a problem. But when someone deposits 20 € and he initially wanted deposit 10 €, then this is a problem gambler - even if he is not at the same stage with someone who gambled his house away (this is my view!)

I am honest, I see myself as a problem gambler. Never in debt, can pay my bills and have enough for good food and weekend trips. Still I deposit 2-3 times in a row if nothing comes, I do not believe that this is the behaviour I would have in my early days. Earlier I deposited 5 € and 20 € was a jackpot for me. I only know a few people who still deposit low amounts, many raised it at least to 20 € deposits.

Some can hold it down better and maybe never stake over 0,40 € per spin. And other players raising it pretty fast to 1-2 € per spin. And then real crazy ones playing 20+ € per spin...

I agree that a person's gambling behaviour tends to change with time, getting more involved, longer time playing, possibly higher stakes, more redepositing etc...

"Earlier I deposited 5 € and 20 € was a jackpot for me."

totally agree, was thinking this myself the other day, was on cloud nine winning £10 a few years ago but now its just more grist to the mill for playing on longer and trying to win a higher amount. I still play at minimum stakes but not sure this is always the sensible thing to do as you do end up playing longer but have less chance of winning something large enough to be worthwhile withdrawing.

 

[trancemonkey]

It was one example and the message was not the "extra 10", the message was that the gambler initially wanted to spend a lower amount. And writing headlines in big red makes you not more important.

And it was also the increase of stake over time, not just 0,1 € or 1,0 €. This is how addictions ... but you can make a nice red post to that topic too

It was in red as it was a quote. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Aryol]

It was in red as it was a quote. Nothing more nothing less.

Then I am sorry for attacking you on this point. I just know some people using red colors to make it look important and I expected a Quote in "" or in a box, so this was something new for me.

 

[trancemonkey]

Then I am sorry for attacking you on this point. I just know some people using red colors to make it look important and I expected a Quote in "" or in a box, so this was something new for me.

Well, I copied it as was from a website. So the format was like that

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. I changed it to red to make it different to my comment underneath. I certainly don't need to make what I say look more important... it already is super important anyway.

 

[dionysus]

I certainly don't need to make what I say look more important... it already is super important anyway.

you misspelled impotent

 

[TheAddict]

this thread is ceartinly quite a read. just went through it, and as someone who opened it late and consumed all the information at once, i think i can summarise it as;


Yes.
No.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
No.

;p

was thinking this myself the other day, was on cloud nine winning £10 a few years ago but now its just more grist to the mill for playing on longer and trying to win a higher amount. i still plat at minimum stakes..

not even enough for 20 B&H Gold smokes these days, would have to settle for B&H blue or take the gamble..
aren't taxes and inflation the most beautiful of gifts ;p

agree with the feeling though, and is one reason i still only play min bets online, as i don't want to become used to higher stakes and the buzz of seeing bigger hits when online, only to become bored if going back to lower stakes and so possibly spending more on average in the long run.


Anyway, please excuse my daily irrelevant contribution. i can agree with most comments here to some extent fwiw.

 

[mac72]

I don’t think wanting to exclude for a period of time after which you wish to return is any sign of addiction at all. Various things happen in people’s lives , death of a loved one, separation/divorce or loss of a job when your “hobby” is probably not a good idea for a while. Gambling can be a way to remove yourself from your problems and as such can be dangerous during periods like these and if you realise that these are all useful tools. You just accept your in a place in your life where gambling/drinking etc are not a good idea at that time but you know the “danger period” will pass with time . Just my thoughts on the subject

 

[zreb]

I still play at minimum stakes but not sure this is always the sensible thing to do as you do end up playing longer but have less chance of winning something large enough to be worthwhile withdrawing.

It really depends what your goal is, play time or a chance to win big? If you want play time, smaller bets are better. Chance to come out with a big win ahead of the casino, big bets are better - but you have to prepared to lose your deposit fast if luck isn't on your side.

Due to that last part, bigger bets are harder to responsibly manage. If your discipline slips, big bets just mean you are spending money at a faster rate (since the casino always has the advantage, whether you bet big or small), and you may lose more than you originally planned to - in the worse cases, enough for someone to harm their financial health.

Most are probably better off with small bets, even if that means you will never in your lifetime hit that $10,000+ miracle win. It's easier not to chase losses if you lose your deposit over an hour instead of 5 minutes. Though as others in this thread have said, they find it hard to go back to small bets once they've gotten used to the big ones. So in the long term, those big bets don't really become a chance to hit that big win and run off as a winner - they just become bigger deposits. So bigger wins once in a while, but bigger losses in total.

But everyone is different and has to find their own preferences and their own balance. Some people just enjoy the experience of playing the games and are quite happy with a $25-$50 win, some would rather take big risks to go for those $1000+ scores. Some want a relaxing hour in front of the slots, some want to win big and they want it right now.

If you feel the need to push towards higher stakes and bigger wins to get the same thrill and enjoyment from the slots that you once did, I'd recommend to try taking a break for a week or two, come back, and try playing the smaller stakes again/calling it a day with a more modest win. I can't say it works for everyone, but it's usually worked for me (usually cutting back after a big loss or string of losses).

 

[mack341]

It really depends what your goal is, play time or a chance to win big? If you want play time, smaller bets are better. Chance to come out with a big win ahead of the casino, big bets are better - but you have to prepared to lose your deposit fast if luck isn't on your side.

Due to that last part, bigger bets are harder to responsibly manage. If your discipline slips, big bets just mean you are spending money at a faster rate (since the casino always has the advantage, whether you bet big or small), and you may lose more than you originally planned to - in the worse cases, enough for someone to harm their financial health.

Most are probably better off with small bets, even if that means you will never in your lifetime hit that $10,000+ miracle win. It's easier not to chase losses if you lose your deposit over an hour instead of 5 minutes. Though as others in this thread have said, they find it hard to go back to small bets once they've gotten used to the big ones. So in the long term, those big bets don't really become a chance to hit that big win and run off as a winner - they just become bigger deposits. So bigger wins once in a while, but bigger losses in total.

But everyone is different and has to find their own preferences and their own balance. Some people just enjoy the experience of playing the games and are quite happy with a $25-$50 win, some would rather take big risks to go for those $1000+ scores. Some want a relaxing hour in front of the slots, some want to win big and they want it right now.

If you feel the need to push towards higher stakes and bigger wins to get the same thrill and enjoyment from the slots that you once did, I'd recommend to try taking a break for a week or two, come back, and try playing the smaller stakes again/calling it a day with a more modest win. I can't say it works for everyone, but it's usually worked for me (usually cutting back after a big loss or string of losses).

Thanks Zreb that's sound advice all round, and the psychology is a big part of sensible slotting; I've realised a bit late in the day that actually for my bankroll and outlook 40p is high stakes and can rinse you of £200+ for not much back in terms of entertainment or wins

I get caught up chasing losses, redepositing etc.. and trying to get, at least, a break even session, but accepting a loss is more sensible, darn hard to do but over the long run will save me money.

 

[trancemonkey]

Thanks Zreb that's sound advice all round, and the psychology is a big part of sensible slotting; I've realised a bit late in the day that actually for my bankroll and outlook 40p is high stakes and can rinse you of £200+ for not much back in terms of entertainment or wins

I get caught up chasing losses, redepositing etc.. and trying to get, at least, a break even session, but accepting a loss is more sensible, darn hard to do but over the long run will save me money.

Chasing losses is a prime example of a bad gambling addiction... be careful.

 

[mack341]

Chasing losses is a prime example of a bad gambling addiction... be careful.

I must admit I do do it, but at a certain point my sensible mindset kicks back in and says 'that's enough', and at the stakes I tend to play 20/40p- there's only so much you can lose in say 5 hours . But I do need to sort this out as it's a slippery slope to self inflicted penury.

 

[Playford7]

Well said, you summed up my thoughts.... especially those towards Playford7, who somehow seems to think that any player that uses any form of control to limit their gambling is a problem gambler, which is quite clearly untrue.

Why use a tool to prevent you gambling If gambling wasn’t a problem in the first place..
Simple dimples pal

 

[Tirilej]

Why use a tool to prevent you gambling If gambling wasn’t a problem in the first place..
Simple dimples pal

To prevent it from becoming a problem of course. Simple

 

[dionysus]

I guess you could look at it like a condom. It's a preventative measure, not always 100% but nice to have Doesnt mean I have an issue with STDs or spitting out babies - but I'd like to help make sure I don't