- Joined
- Feb 1, 2005
- Location
- Vermont
jetset said:
Any comments yet??
Gambling Federation Malware
- Thread starter jmildstone
- Start date
Any comments yet??
Not that I've seen. They seem to be keeping a low profile on this, and I guess it is pretty embarrassing for both trade associations.
Interestingly, IGN (which belongs to River City Group - Sue Schneider the ex-leader of the IGC who is still involved with them in an advisory capacity) carried a piece which put the blame for the malware insertion into their downloads on the shoulders of this as yet unidentified GFED manager who apparently defected to Royal Dutch Casino and is thought to have taken a copy of the player database with him. (You will recall that RDC was one of the operations aced out by the malware...that might have been a good thing for the players LOL!!!)
That does not exonerate the CEO at GFED, who has now on several occasions admitted publicly that this was wrong and apologised.
Many do not believe this should be so lightly allowed to pass into the bad section of online gambling history. Some strong statements, perhaps even backed by strong exemplative action should be made here as a deterrent to other irresponsible elements.
Interestingly, IGN (which belongs to River City Group - Sue Schneider the ex-leader of the IGC who is still involved with them in an advisory capacity) carried a piece which put the blame for the malware insertion into their downloads on the shoulders of this as yet unidentified GFED manager who apparently defected to Royal Dutch Casino and is thought to have taken a copy of the player database with him. (You will recall that RDC was one of the operations aced out by the malware...that might have been a good thing for the players LOL!!!)
That does not exonerate the CEO at GFED, who has now on several occasions admitted publicly that this was wrong and apologised.
Many do not believe this should be so lightly allowed to pass into the bad section of online gambling history. Some strong statements, perhaps even backed by strong exemplative action should be made here as a deterrent to other irresponsible elements.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2005
- Location
- Vermont
thanks for the info
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Location
- California
Help for a new member with Gfed
I still cant access royal dutch casino - and a lot of other sites too for that matter, and all the malware/spyware stuff is no longer in my pc. I ran spybot and I guess that removed it cause when I looked at the c/program/sys32/host/etc (opened with notepad) it only shows what is supposed to be shown... thanks for that info btw!
Does anyone know what I can do now? Besides having to install my entire system over??? Im on windows 2000 And I am so pissed at GFED for doing this that I too am pretty much speechless. Thanks for any suggestions
I still cant access royal dutch casino - and a lot of other sites too for that matter, and all the malware/spyware stuff is no longer in my pc. I ran spybot and I guess that removed it cause when I looked at the c/program/sys32/host/etc (opened with notepad) it only shows what is supposed to be shown... thanks for that info btw!
Does anyone know what I can do now? Besides having to install my entire system over??? Im on windows 2000 And I am so pissed at GFED for doing this that I too am pretty much speechless. Thanks for any suggestions
Has anyone actually contacted the "iGGBA"? I seem to have mislaid the card I had for the director Wes I got at the ICE with his Email address. There are terms in their Code Of Conduct which this expressly relate to this matter - if they keep them on now it will categorically show that it's all about the dollars.
Not that we don't know that anyway, but at least this'll prove it and add another candidate to the burgeoning list of "seals of approval" industry jokes.
Not that we don't know that anyway, but at least this'll prove it and add another candidate to the burgeoning list of "seals of approval" industry jokes.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2004
- Location
- Sydney
I cant beleive I've been missing such a good juicy thread (..complete with bashings and innuendo.. one of my favourites!).where I could have seriously strirred up some s**t..BUT ..
unbeleivably I have to agree with the (so called) moral majority here!!..this all VERY wrong and the pathetic spin and recovery attempted by the perps..is embarrassing.
"After reviewing the complaints from our players, it become apparent that one of our ex-employees was inappropriately and unethically stealing part of our player list, contacting our players and promoting non-Gambling Federation casinos. .."
what a complete load of total bolloc*s...oldest one in the book..come on guys..you can do better than that!
Name him!..and lets see if he sues.
edited for spelling..and thats all!
unbeleivably I have to agree with the (so called) moral majority here!!..this all VERY wrong and the pathetic spin and recovery attempted by the perps..is embarrassing.
"After reviewing the complaints from our players, it become apparent that one of our ex-employees was inappropriately and unethically stealing part of our player list, contacting our players and promoting non-Gambling Federation casinos. .."
what a complete load of total bolloc*s...oldest one in the book..come on guys..you can do better than that!
Name him!..and lets see if he sues.
edited for spelling..and thats all!
From Casinomeister News:
STRANGE SILENCE FROM TRADE ASSOCIATIONS
A deafening silence greets Gambling Federation's malware activities
Players and industry observers alike this week continued to comment on the puzzling silence of the Interactive Gaming Council (IGC) and iGGBA, both trade associations in the industry where Gambling Federation and its CEO Flaviano Fogli are members. In fact in the case of the IGC, Fogli is a Board member, making its silence even more inexplicable.
Readers will recall the shocking admissions by Fogli last week that his company had knowingly included malware in their gambling software download to players over a period of some months in order to grapple with a competitor.
This week an article appeared in I-Gaming News which again admitted the blunder, but this time tried to blame an unidentified GFED employee who had left the group to join competitor Royal Dutch Casino and who was additionally suspected of taking details of the player database with him.
Regrettably this individual was not identified, and Royal Dutch were keeping their heads down.
The general feeling among most online players remains one of indignation that a large company like GFED should have behaved in such an irresponsible and unethical manner, with scant regard for player privacy considerations. The fact that it seems that no-one is being called to account in this matter by responsible trade associations, only makes it more bizarre.
As one player pointed out on the still seething message boards:
*Player information was not kept secure.
*When it was stolen, GF did not inform the affected
players.
*GF obviously considered new players signing up to be
handing over their computers.
*They did this for at *least* half a year.
*They only said something when they were caught.
*Their attitude when caught was not of any contrition,
but excuses, pointing fingers, and lying -- the most
insulting kind of lies: stupid ones.
STRANGE SILENCE FROM TRADE ASSOCIATIONS
A deafening silence greets Gambling Federation's malware activities
Players and industry observers alike this week continued to comment on the puzzling silence of the Interactive Gaming Council (IGC) and iGGBA, both trade associations in the industry where Gambling Federation and its CEO Flaviano Fogli are members. In fact in the case of the IGC, Fogli is a Board member, making its silence even more inexplicable.
Readers will recall the shocking admissions by Fogli last week that his company had knowingly included malware in their gambling software download to players over a period of some months in order to grapple with a competitor.
This week an article appeared in I-Gaming News which again admitted the blunder, but this time tried to blame an unidentified GFED employee who had left the group to join competitor Royal Dutch Casino and who was additionally suspected of taking details of the player database with him.
Regrettably this individual was not identified, and Royal Dutch were keeping their heads down.
The general feeling among most online players remains one of indignation that a large company like GFED should have behaved in such an irresponsible and unethical manner, with scant regard for player privacy considerations. The fact that it seems that no-one is being called to account in this matter by responsible trade associations, only makes it more bizarre.
As one player pointed out on the still seething message boards:
*Player information was not kept secure.
*When it was stolen, GF did not inform the affected
players.
*GF obviously considered new players signing up to be
handing over their computers.
*They did this for at *least* half a year.
*They only said something when they were caught.
*Their attitude when caught was not of any contrition,
but excuses, pointing fingers, and lying -- the most
insulting kind of lies: stupid ones.
swampwitch
ProfessionalUnderachiever
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Location
- Iowa, dammit.
Well now...isn't this interesting? An ex GamFed employee joins Royal Dutch. This person, if he could steal a player database, more than likely knew about the malware that prevented GamFed players from visiting Royal Dutch. Are we to believe that this employee didn't tell Royal Dutch about the malware? Doubtful. So why then didn't Royal Dutch make this public, instead of a couple of players on message boards? One would think that poor, injured RD would have been screaming about this from the git-go....instead of waiting for the news to break from ordinary posters.
Without taking any blame away from GamFed.......Doesn't RD's reaction seem a bit fishy?
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2001
- Location
- Heaven
swampwitch said:
Not likely - the malware was probably installed after this supposed employee left - obviously, there would be no reason to attack RD before such an incident.
Because they didn't know. Simple as that. jmildstone's post was what set all of this in action.
Without taking any blame away from GamFed.......Doesn't RD's reaction seem a bit fishy?
RD's reaction isn't exactly fishy - at least it didn't seem to be unusual until they suddenly started playing the ethical industry operator who would never stoop to or permit such cowardly acts.
Slithery would probably be a better description
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
2) "Probity and trust: All applicable iGGBA members shall pass a corporate fit and proper test as determined by UK government law and regulation. Anyone found in breach of these requirements by the regulatory authority will have their membership terminated in iGGBA."
Potential cop-out: What is the "regulatory authority" that applies to online casinos located in the caribbean? Other than that, I don't see how malware installation would result in anything less than failure to pass the above test.
3) "Privacy: iGGBA members will provide customers with privacy and security in accordance with UK and applicable global data protection and privacy laws within the requirements of regulators to gain access to player records."
I can't see any cop-out here. I assume that malware installation is in direct contravention with the above.
14) "Breaches of code: Any proven breach of this code by a member of the iGGBA will result in the termination of the company membership from the association and shall be reported to the UK regulatory authority. To prove any breach the Association shall provide for an investigation into the alleged breach before terminating the membership."
2) "Probity and trust: All applicable iGGBA members shall pass a corporate fit and proper test as determined by UK government law and regulation. Anyone found in breach of these requirements by the regulatory authority will have their membership terminated in iGGBA."
Potential cop-out: What is the "regulatory authority" that applies to online casinos located in the caribbean? Other than that, I don't see how malware installation would result in anything less than failure to pass the above test.
3) "Privacy: iGGBA members will provide customers with privacy and security in accordance with UK and applicable global data protection and privacy laws within the requirements of regulators to gain access to player records."
I can't see any cop-out here. I assume that malware installation is in direct contravention with the above.
14) "Breaches of code: Any proven breach of this code by a member of the iGGBA will result in the termination of the company membership from the association and shall be reported to the UK regulatory authority. To prove any breach the Association shall provide for an investigation into the alleged breach before terminating the membership."
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Location
- Here on Earth
Whate else is lurking on our computers?
Okay, GFed got caught. From a players point of view its fairly innocuous, (although I was, and still am, spitting mad-furious at the invasion) as opposed to the casinos affected by the block. I seriously thought Royal Dutch had folded. How many people still don't know?
However, my main concern now is what else is lurking in my files?
I was not amused when I found out that a microgaming casino was happily downloading files whenever I went on line, whether I wanted those games or not. (I finally found out what the problem was by using Spybot and finding the offensive creature in the start up. This was AFTER I threw my toys out of my cot with the ISP and telephone line provider.)
Now this G-Fed thing, up to now how many people checked their hosts files regularly? Until the 18th I wasn't aware it existed- never mind what its function was.
What can the computer savvy among us suggest I do to check to see exactly what has been put onto my pc after download and install. I've taken to searching for files altered within a set period of time, and if it looks dodgy-out it goes. But I can't help feeling very vulnerable.
Okay, GFed got caught. From a players point of view its fairly innocuous, (although I was, and still am, spitting mad-furious at the invasion) as opposed to the casinos affected by the block. I seriously thought Royal Dutch had folded. How many people still don't know?
However, my main concern now is what else is lurking in my files?
I was not amused when I found out that a microgaming casino was happily downloading files whenever I went on line, whether I wanted those games or not. (I finally found out what the problem was by using Spybot and finding the offensive creature in the start up. This was AFTER I threw my toys out of my cot with the ISP and telephone line provider.)
Now this G-Fed thing, up to now how many people checked their hosts files regularly? Until the 18th I wasn't aware it existed- never mind what its function was.
What can the computer savvy among us suggest I do to check to see exactly what has been put onto my pc after download and install. I've taken to searching for files altered within a set period of time, and if it looks dodgy-out it goes. But I can't help feeling very vulnerable.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2001
- Location
- Heaven
Aldebaran, I'd like to hear more about the Microgaming casino - whether it was downloading regardless of whether you had started the casino up or not, or only if you started the casino... feel free to PM me this info if you don't want to mention publicly.
I already had a word with Microgaming about this last month and I am expecting to hear further developments shortly.
I already had a word with Microgaming about this last month and I am expecting to hear further developments shortly.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2005
- Location
- Melbourne Beach, Florida
Malaware
I have been having alot of trouble with my computer freezing and shuting off
so yesterday I downloaded a Ad/spyware finder and found the following:
Malaware- Mircogaming--Reg Key entry
Reg value/Reg key - 78 entrys by Golden Palace
6 tracking cookies- Golden Palace ( not in Cookies/Temp Internet files)
I quarantined all and my comuter shut off amd would only start in safe mode
and I had to restore thru XP restore.
I have played 60 casinos and those are the only offenders so far.
------------
So many Billion$- so little time
I have been having alot of trouble with my computer freezing and shuting off
so yesterday I downloaded a Ad/spyware finder and found the following:
Malaware- Mircogaming--Reg Key entry
Reg value/Reg key - 78 entrys by Golden Palace
6 tracking cookies- Golden Palace ( not in Cookies/Temp Internet files)
I quarantined all and my comuter shut off amd would only start in safe mode
and I had to restore thru XP restore.
I have played 60 casinos and those are the only offenders so far.
------------
So many Billion$- so little time
Last edited:
GrandMaster
Dormant account
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2004
- Location
- UK
Don't mess with the registry unless you know what you are doing. Anti-spyware programs are not perfect. Ad-Aware will flag the Microgaming registry key as a spyware and any Playtech as Golden Palace. There is a PTech registry key containing some serial number, which you can delete without any problems I think. The Microgaming key contains lots of information, including your user names and settings for each casino. If you delete it, your computer won't recognise the Microgaming casinos.BigBill said:
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
- Location
- The Boonies
I agree with Grandmaster. Be careful in the registry.
All the items you mentioned are harmless, including the one your spyware remover found.
They are all to make life online easier for you - they allow the casinos to remember you and let you in.
Lately the spyware removers have gotten very competitive and are flagging things that are harmless, to outdo the next guy. They all use the number of items they recognize as advertising tool - bad idea. The microgaming and playtech entries are definitely not malware.
All the items you mentioned are harmless, including the one your spyware remover found.
They are all to make life online easier for you - they allow the casinos to remember you and let you in.
Lately the spyware removers have gotten very competitive and are flagging things that are harmless, to outdo the next guy. They all use the number of items they recognize as advertising tool - bad idea. The microgaming and playtech entries are definitely not malware.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2004
- Location
- Montreal
Just a note: despite deleting the lines in the host file about casinoxo and blackjacktable, Hijack This has just found them again. I guess deleting those lines wasn't enough.
Max
Max
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2004
- Location
- San Jose Costa Rica
Casino Meister Members,
We want to thank you for the opportunity to show our point of view in the Gambling Federation Malware Issue.
We had never put heads down but We won't use this forum to attack or judge the actions of Gambling Federation or
Mr. Fogli. We will deal with it in a different field.
We just want to make clear that We haven't bought any player databases, this practice is abusive and unethical
against the company of origin (disloyal competition) and individual (player integrity security) and the industry in
general.
Affiliates are more than welcome to distribute Royal Dutch Casino banners and links through out the net.
Royal Dutch Casino have a strong anti-spam policy, we don't encourage this practice in
any way shape or form. Actually if an affiliate spam, affiliate relationship will be terminated, referrals will be
wiped clean from our system and the affiliate in question will be forever banned from Royal Dutch Casino.
Since our first day of operations on january 5th, 2005, We haven't been contacted or notified by no one regarding
this affiliate/spammer that is supposedly spamming with a stolen player database. Otherwise we would taken proper
actions against the perpetrator.
Respectfully,
Angelo Vitorino
PR Manager
RoyalDutchCasino.com
We want to thank you for the opportunity to show our point of view in the Gambling Federation Malware Issue.
We had never put heads down but We won't use this forum to attack or judge the actions of Gambling Federation or
Mr. Fogli. We will deal with it in a different field.
We just want to make clear that We haven't bought any player databases, this practice is abusive and unethical
against the company of origin (disloyal competition) and individual (player integrity security) and the industry in
general.
Affiliates are more than welcome to distribute Royal Dutch Casino banners and links through out the net.
Royal Dutch Casino have a strong anti-spam policy, we don't encourage this practice in
any way shape or form. Actually if an affiliate spam, affiliate relationship will be terminated, referrals will be
wiped clean from our system and the affiliate in question will be forever banned from Royal Dutch Casino.
Since our first day of operations on january 5th, 2005, We haven't been contacted or notified by no one regarding
this affiliate/spammer that is supposedly spamming with a stolen player database. Otherwise we would taken proper
actions against the perpetrator.
Respectfully,
Angelo Vitorino
PR Manager
RoyalDutchCasino.com
Royal Dutch Casino - always good for a laugh, LOL!
More seriously, that was a good find, Caruso. Particularly "14) "Breaches of code: Any proven breach of this code by a member of the GGBA will result in the termination of the company membership from the association and shall be reported to the UK regulatory authority. To prove any breach the Association shall provide for an investigation into the alleged breach before terminating the membership."
That is pretty specific, and Fogli's admissions would seem to put GFED squarely in line for dismissal. The silence from the trade associations is still very conspicuous.
More seriously, that was a good find, Caruso. Particularly "14) "Breaches of code: Any proven breach of this code by a member of the GGBA will result in the termination of the company membership from the association and shall be reported to the UK regulatory authority. To prove any breach the Association shall provide for an investigation into the alleged breach before terminating the membership."
That is pretty specific, and Fogli's admissions would seem to put GFED squarely in line for dismissal. The silence from the trade associations is still very conspicuous.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Dutch said:
Hi Dutch,
Please don't use this Malware issue to try and drum up some traffic and to show how benevelant your casino is. It's not. There was no mention of "buying" a database - just public implications that it was stolen. I know GamFed's CEO and have spoken to him over the phone about this. Sure, he made a stupid mistake - and he's paying the price for a major screw-up - but to think that Royal Dutch is going to walk away from this unscathed - I have some unpleasant news for you - it's going to expose the unethical underbelly of your establishment even more.
Please continue to post your propoganda. It's quite amusing.
I hope Dutch don't unwittingly derail this thread by shifting focus onto their own dirty dealings.
No mistake, Bryan - this was malicious and intentional. Their "mistake" was thinking they'd get away with it.
The rapist makes a "mistake" when he gets caught on a security camera.
casinomeister said:
No mistake, Bryan - this was malicious and intentional. Their "mistake" was thinking they'd get away with it.
The rapist makes a "mistake" when he gets caught on a security camera.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
- Location
- Hou, Tx. USA
players information not secure with GFED
QUOTE -- "After reviewing the complaints from our players, it become apparent that one of our ex-employees was inappropriately and unethically stealing part of our player list, contacting our players and promoting non-Gambling Federation casinos. .."--UNQUOTE
How can players feel confident in the future sharing their personal and financial information with GFed if ones information can so easily be obtained by casino employees and used without players' knowledge or consent? If GFed didn't have anything to hide, their customers should have immediately been notified that players information had been compromised and forewarned of this alleged theft. And how is GFed's player information now being secured from future theft by employees? Will GFed seek prosecution for the theft of their property? Or will it be left up to Royal Dutch taking the appropriate legal action against Gfed?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
BS
QUOTE -- "After reviewing the complaints from our players, it become apparent that one of our ex-employees was inappropriately and unethically stealing part of our player list, contacting our players and promoting non-Gambling Federation casinos. .."--UNQUOTE
How can players feel confident in the future sharing their personal and financial information with GFed if ones information can so easily be obtained by casino employees and used without players' knowledge or consent? If GFed didn't have anything to hide, their customers should have immediately been notified that players information had been compromised and forewarned of this alleged theft. And how is GFed's player information now being secured from future theft by employees? Will GFed seek prosecution for the theft of their property? Or will it be left up to Royal Dutch taking the appropriate legal action against Gfed?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
BS
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2004
- Location
- Woman lives in London
Online Gaming Regulators keep quiet about scandal
I am sorry to re-hash this one, but I am wondering if SOMEONE is going to let us know if there were any consequences for the going-on here?
I cannot believe that it flared up, and suddenly everyone is ignoring it or have lost interest. Not I I want to know what the hell is going to happen and who is going to make it happen?
----------------------**
Online Gaming Regulators Keep Quiet Regarding Malware Scandal
1 March 2005
The CEO of Gambling Federation (GFED) Flaviano Fogli recently shocked the online gaming world upon admitting that the company had consciously included malware in its casino software downloads over several months in order to defeat a competitor. Although expressing their regret over this procedure, GFED ultimately pinned the blame on a former employee who left the company for competitor Royal Dutch Casino, allegedly taking with him customer database information.
Since the announcement, online gambling regulator organizations, including the Interactive Gaming Council (IGC) and the iGGBA, seem to have turned a blind eye, keeping relatively silent regarding the scandal. This silence is puzzling, particularly regarding IGC, which boasts Flaviano Fogli as a board member.
I am sorry to re-hash this one, but I am wondering if SOMEONE is going to let us know if there were any consequences for the going-on here?
I cannot believe that it flared up, and suddenly everyone is ignoring it or have lost interest. Not I I want to know what the hell is going to happen and who is going to make it happen?
----------------------**
Online Gaming Regulators Keep Quiet Regarding Malware Scandal
1 March 2005
The CEO of Gambling Federation (GFED) Flaviano Fogli recently shocked the online gaming world upon admitting that the company had consciously included malware in its casino software downloads over several months in order to defeat a competitor. Although expressing their regret over this procedure, GFED ultimately pinned the blame on a former employee who left the company for competitor Royal Dutch Casino, allegedly taking with him customer database information.
Since the announcement, online gambling regulator organizations, including the Interactive Gaming Council (IGC) and the iGGBA, seem to have turned a blind eye, keeping relatively silent regarding the scandal. This silence is puzzling, particularly regarding IGC, which boasts Flaviano Fogli as a board member.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Actually, I've been patient, perhaps too patient. I too would like to know what the plan is etc. I guess it's time to find out.
Casinomeister News carried the story for two weeks running, and there are still many in this industry who want to see public action - and are pushing for it in their own ways.
It is disappointing that some of the more high profile online news media in the industry have also been guilty of ignoring this disgraceful behaviour despite having been alerted to it.
If there is any thought of sweeping this quietly under the carpet I don't think that is going to happen.
It is disappointing that some of the more high profile online news media in the industry have also been guilty of ignoring this disgraceful behaviour despite having been alerted to it.
If there is any thought of sweeping this quietly under the carpet I don't think that is going to happen.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Here maybe? Outdated URL (Invalid)jetset said:
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2004
- Location
- Woman lives in London
jetset said:
** I did a search on google news, and this was ALL that I could find! I know it is somebodies rebuttle over this whole thing, but it said exactly what I was thinking. Yeah Bryan, you are right, that was EXACTLY where I got it from! **
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2005
- Location
- Vermont
bumpcaruso said:
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2005
- Location
- Vermont
IGC we are waiting for your resolution.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
No need to bump, since I'll be making periodical postings here; and there are enough happy campers (not) who I'm sure will be contributing to this thread every day or so until the smoke clearsjmildstone said:
The smoke hasn't cleared yet.
I've been in contact wiht the IGC - they are meeting this week to discus this. I've also been in touch with the iGGBA and they have just been made aware of this (perhaps by my email), and they are delving into this as well.
Like you, I would like some answers too.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2004
- Location
- Woman lives in London
What is to happen?
** Hey everyone. It is good to see that some of the troops don't mind venturing out of the woods. I have asked this before,and would like to ask again:
It would seem very hard to come up with a suitable punishment for the GFED as a whole or even for The MISTER FAV himself. What (if anything) do you think should happen - and to whom? Ultimately, I am battling to come to a conslusion as to who really is responsible - let alone as to what would be a suitable punishment! ANy ideas? **
** Hey everyone. It is good to see that some of the troops don't mind venturing out of the woods. I have asked this before,and would like to ask again:
It would seem very hard to come up with a suitable punishment for the GFED as a whole or even for The MISTER FAV himself. What (if anything) do you think should happen - and to whom? Ultimately, I am battling to come to a conslusion as to who really is responsible - let alone as to what would be a suitable punishment! ANy ideas? **
I believe Petunia asks a relevant question.
In a reputable company with a concerned Board of Directors the guy would probably fall on his sword. It happened on his watch, it is a very serious matter that brings the company into disrepute and probably harms its business and if he did not offer his resignation, it may be demanded.
After that a considerable house-cleaning would be in order, although how you would try and placate your players in this sort of really bad scenario I am not entirely sure.
Looking outside the company to its membership of outfits like iGGBA and IGC (and Fogli is a Board member at IGC) I would imagine there is the obvious choice of booting GFED out of the body, or of demanding some sort of atonement in monetary terms to go to GA or someone like that, accompanied by some serious inspection to satisfy the Board that all evil has been expunged from the GFED systems.
The powers of the body to do these things would be dependent on its Constitution, of course.
Concerning Fogli's involvement with the IGC as a director, I would say that the same options apply as at his company - he should tender his resignation or have his ass fired following an appropriate enquiry that should perhaps involve independents for credibility.
I would not imagine there is a criminal sanction available here, although there could be civil actions from those affected and - here's a thought - players could even mount a class action and go after GFED for damages.
Fogli's reputation in the industry has sustained severe damage, and that will have a personal cost for him, I'm sure. His judgement, and even his business ethics and efficiency have been shown to be flawed i.m.o. and that will not be easily forgotten.
In a reputable company with a concerned Board of Directors the guy would probably fall on his sword. It happened on his watch, it is a very serious matter that brings the company into disrepute and probably harms its business and if he did not offer his resignation, it may be demanded.
After that a considerable house-cleaning would be in order, although how you would try and placate your players in this sort of really bad scenario I am not entirely sure.
Looking outside the company to its membership of outfits like iGGBA and IGC (and Fogli is a Board member at IGC) I would imagine there is the obvious choice of booting GFED out of the body, or of demanding some sort of atonement in monetary terms to go to GA or someone like that, accompanied by some serious inspection to satisfy the Board that all evil has been expunged from the GFED systems.
The powers of the body to do these things would be dependent on its Constitution, of course.
Concerning Fogli's involvement with the IGC as a director, I would say that the same options apply as at his company - he should tender his resignation or have his ass fired following an appropriate enquiry that should perhaps involve independents for credibility.
I would not imagine there is a criminal sanction available here, although there could be civil actions from those affected and - here's a thought - players could even mount a class action and go after GFED for damages.
Fogli's reputation in the industry has sustained severe damage, and that will have a personal cost for him, I'm sure. His judgement, and even his business ethics and efficiency have been shown to be flawed i.m.o. and that will not be easily forgotten.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2004
- Location
- Woman lives in London
Jetset, very well said mate! The problem with the Class Action as per your suggestion is that pple do not want to get involved. I do agree with what you are saying - and how can one not when it is put in such a well-written manner! I guess we will not know what is going on behind closed doors (Gfed's) until someone let slip. Having looked at some, information the way I see it is as follows:
Is Mr Flav the only one to blame in this saga?
See, SOMEONE had to come up with the Idea, SOMEONE had to approve the Idea, SOMEONE had to developed this lot, SOMEONE had to be given permission to deploy this, and SOMEONE had to implement it, SOMEONE had to silence the lot, then Flav was 'caught!'
Now, how long ago did the person leave the company? How long have they known that this person had the data? Something like this takes planning - and then some. Considering that it took a good while before they were fingered, and considering that development would take no less than a month.. This was planned to the "T" - Does the time-span check out - from when the person left and this was implemented.
Now was he the SOMEONE in all of this, or was he acting upon instruction by someone else? - This is where I think your suggestion of an external and independent party should investigate on this. Although Flav admitted to GFED doing it, he might only be part to blame. Either way, they should make a public report available on who/what/when things are happening - I hope GFED would drop in a FYI soon!
Thanks again for that well put opinion jetset! **
EDIT: Spelling mistakes! *grin*
Is Mr Flav the only one to blame in this saga?
See, SOMEONE had to come up with the Idea, SOMEONE had to approve the Idea, SOMEONE had to developed this lot, SOMEONE had to be given permission to deploy this, and SOMEONE had to implement it, SOMEONE had to silence the lot, then Flav was 'caught!'
Now, how long ago did the person leave the company? How long have they known that this person had the data? Something like this takes planning - and then some. Considering that it took a good while before they were fingered, and considering that development would take no less than a month.. This was planned to the "T" - Does the time-span check out - from when the person left and this was implemented.
Now was he the SOMEONE in all of this, or was he acting upon instruction by someone else? - This is where I think your suggestion of an external and independent party should investigate on this. Although Flav admitted to GFED doing it, he might only be part to blame. Either way, they should make a public report available on who/what/when things are happening - I hope GFED would drop in a FYI soon!
Thanks again for that well put opinion jetset! **
EDIT: Spelling mistakes! *grin*
Last edited:
Much will now depend on the real integrity of the Boards of Directors involved in this matter, because it must be clear to everyone that this is not going to simply go away - feelings are running too high.
From what I see here, GFED hasn't really produced a solid case for this implication that their customer relations manager defected to Royal Dutch and is suspected of taking player database information. So we have their word, or rather *suspicions* for it, and the fact that it could be seen as a competitively motivated tactic - an unethical, dishonest and unacceptable thing to do notwithstanding that.
The way I see this, the boss (Fogli) knew it was happening and therefore presumably condoned it and he is therefore ultimately responsible. If he didn't know about it (and his statements suggest he DID know what was happening) then the mind boggles at the sort of corporate scenario that such behaviour might suggest, and he should go anyway.
From what I see here, GFED hasn't really produced a solid case for this implication that their customer relations manager defected to Royal Dutch and is suspected of taking player database information. So we have their word, or rather *suspicions* for it, and the fact that it could be seen as a competitively motivated tactic - an unethical, dishonest and unacceptable thing to do notwithstanding that.
The way I see this, the boss (Fogli) knew it was happening and therefore presumably condoned it and he is therefore ultimately responsible. If he didn't know about it (and his statements suggest he DID know what was happening) then the mind boggles at the sort of corporate scenario that such behaviour might suggest, and he should go anyway.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2000
If GFed were operating in a regulated jurisdiction, the gaming commission involved would require all executives and employees with knowledge to be fired/let go, fine the company as an entity, and allow the cleaned up company to continue business.
You can see on GFed's web site a lot of statements about "integrity" and "trust" and supporting regulation. All this while knowingly using malware.
Obviously they would have continued to do so until caught. People with this attitude "The rules don't apply to me" can't be in this industry. If the leading organizations don't send a strong message of condemnation, you can expect to see a lot more of it in the future.
You can see on GFed's web site a lot of statements about "integrity" and "trust" and supporting regulation. All this while knowingly using malware.
Obviously they would have continued to do so until caught. People with this attitude "The rules don't apply to me" can't be in this industry. If the leading organizations don't send a strong message of condemnation, you can expect to see a lot more of it in the future.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2004
- Location
- europe
So their excuse for modifiying system files is that they couldn't keep their players information safe in the first place?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2000
Freudian said:So their excuse for modifiying system files is that they couldn't keep their players information safe in the first place?
You are my new best friend. :notworthy
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2004
- Location
- europe
Btw. When I run adaware I find malware from Microgaming also (must have come from a Prima poker room since I don't have any casinos installed on this computer). So it's not like Gaming Federation is alone in the belief they have the right to install more than the gambling software on thier customers computer.
I didn't bother to check what Microgaming installed. I suspect its tracking cookies or something similar. Didn't matter much to me since the Prima pokerroom got uninstalled in an instant. When there are great pokerrooms available that have bigger respect for my privacy the choice is simple.
I didn't bother to check what Microgaming installed. I suspect its tracking cookies or something similar. Didn't matter much to me since the Prima pokerroom got uninstalled in an instant. When there are great pokerrooms available that have bigger respect for my privacy the choice is simple.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2000
I need to do more research about this Microgaming thingie. I do know that many Microgaming casinos use Gator for marketing, i.e., Gator tracks the user's surfing and Gator throws popup ads.
I've read that what Ad Aware is flagging in a Microgaming download and installation is not malware but Ad Aware goofing up somehow.
This deifnitely needs clarification. Ideally, Microgaming and Ad Aware would come to some resolution on this.
I've read that what Ad Aware is flagging in a Microgaming download and installation is not malware but Ad Aware goofing up somehow.
This deifnitely needs clarification. Ideally, Microgaming and Ad Aware would come to some resolution on this.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2004
- Location
- europe
jetset said:
I re-installed it again (this is Expekt's poker room www.expekt.com). And the same warning was flagged in ad-aware. Anyway, attatching some screenshots from ad-aware. I don't know exactly what the warning is about. It is of course possible that it is harmless, I'll leave that to those with more knowledge than me to determine. It could be something as basic as the auto-login while starting the pokerroom.
Btw. If any casino installs Gator or GAIN on my computer I consider it a much more serious violation than the modifications to the host-file that GFED did.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2004
- Location
- Earth
Ad-Aware flags a remembered username as spyware. Nothing to be concerned about,
bagofmaggots said:
Good point. I think we have to be careful about what is truly offensive and dangerous MALware in the context of this particular thread, although my personal opinion is that nothing should be installed on your computer without your knowledge and permission.
Nevertheless, I will communicate Freudian's find to the people concerned.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Hi Freudian,
Like nafanny29 stated in another thread: "Adaware will find "spyware" in nearly all microgaming sites but its not spyware, its a cookie that remembers your log in details. If you let adaware delete it, next time you log in you have to manually adjust all your user settings again."
I've deleted this a couple of times and regretted it - I have to dig through emails for my account numbers and try to remember passwords to log back in MG casinos.
Looks like the only leading organization that has stepped up to the plate and voiced their disproval is eCOGRA. The IGC as far as I know is meeting this week - and iGGBA is aware of the situation - but nothing.
Talk about sending a "real" message to the players. I am very, very diappointed.
Like nafanny29 stated in another thread: "Adaware will find "spyware" in nearly all microgaming sites but its not spyware, its a cookie that remembers your log in details. If you let adaware delete it, next time you log in you have to manually adjust all your user settings again."
I've deleted this a couple of times and regretted it - I have to dig through emails for my account numbers and try to remember passwords to log back in MG casinos.
Just an admin note that GFed are "regulated" in Belize (what have I said about Belize?) Oh yeah, "Don't play at sites licensed in Belize, Venezuela, Eastern Europe."mary said:
I'm still having a difficult time getting over the stupidity of this whole thing. It was only a matter of time before one would be busted out. Blows my mind.mary said:
Looks like the only leading organization that has stepped up to the plate and voiced their disproval is eCOGRA. The IGC as far as I know is meeting this week - and iGGBA is aware of the situation - but nothing.
Talk about sending a "real" message to the players. I am very, very diappointed.
