Fortune Room Steals Money

[fortunelounge]

johnnydemp has been informed that we will be refunding his purchase.

The account will, however, remain locked.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group

 

[thesmacker]

Doesnt this solution to some obvious flaws in their service seem a little upsidedown. They let you make a deposit, risk your own money, then when you win they keep your winnings and send your deposit back. FL just keeps getting sketchier by the day.

I find it hard to believe that the casinomeister backs them with the enormous amount of problems they have caused in the last 6 months. It seems there are more posts with problems with FL then most RTG's.

 

[fortunelounge]

thesmacker

This may seem to be a flaw in our system but in this particular case it is not.

Although we make use of some very sophisticated fraud detection systems, it is not always possible to detect fraud at an early stage. It is also not practical to refuse a player to purchase and play until the verification process has been completed and therefore there will be incidences where accounts will be locked after a player has purchased. We constantly attempt to keep such occurences to a minimum.

I notice that you have only recently signed up with Casinomeister and you may not be aware of previous postings where we have rectified cases where we were indeed wrong. You also do not seem to be aware of the drastic changes in policies and procedures that were implemented as a result of forum postings.

You may well have the perception that Casinomeister backs us. He is as tough on us as he is on anyone else and he does not hesitate to rap us over the knuckles when we are in the wrong.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group

 

[glodge]

fortunelounge,

Heard you have been on vacation for the past few weeks. Just wondering when I would be receiving an e-mail reagarding the matter we have spoke about?

To refresh your memory, you did mention that the operations manager would be in contact with me regarding this matter, the next day; that was 2 - 3 weeks ago.

 

[jetset]

Fortune Lounge, I think a little communication goes a long way - particularly when you are holding up a player's payment or have locked his/her account without an adequate explanation whilst your security looks at real or possible fraud.

Try *talking* to players that you put in this very undesirable position - you will find that the genuine players are less likely to explode into frustrated anger if you are accessible, make sure the delay is as short as humanly possible and explain to them what the hell is going on. Answering their emails in a sensible way can really help.


We all know that casinos can have a tough time with fraudster players and need to protect themselves, but I'm pretty sure the fraudsters are in the minority.

The worst thing you can do is make arbitrary decisions like disqualifying bonuses and winnings without giving the player an acceptable explanation and an opportunity to present his or her side of the case.

Everyone is getting really pissed off with the "you're on a negative database for no particular reason" or "you're a bonus abuser-period" as *reasons* for removing often significant sums of money from player accounts that have been genuinely earned.

If you think someone is a bonus abuser, for God's sake flag him/her, pay them out EVERYTHING you owe them to date and then tell them they are persona non grata and lock their accounts / take 'em off the promo mailing list. That is the correct way to handle these cases and everyone respects your right of admission.

Casino managers of decent operations have been around for long enough, and read enough message board postings to know what is or is not acceptable conduct from the genuine players' point of view.

They don't actually expect that much from you - good customer service, fair games and honest dealings that include timeous payouts.

Don't let your security people throw the baby out with the bathwater by clumsy misjudgements and notifications, and then as the head man ignore or refuse to entertain the player's side of the story.

 

[glodge]

Hi All,

Not trying to derail the thread, but just wanted to say that I have spoken with Wim ( fortunelounge ) and we have successfully addressed the matter of which I refered to in posting in this thread.

IMO now that Wim ( fortunelounge ) has returned from vacation, matters which have been overlooked will hopefully be resolved quickly & in the manner of which one expects from an enterprise such as FL Group.

 

[johnnydemp]

FL VP,

Please enlighten me as to what was wrong with my identification. I sent an email and asked you but recieved no logical response. Just saying that there were discrepencies in the ID is not adequate as the ID had been used to prove my address and identity with numerous other casinos. It would seem that your fraud detection security, as you say is advanced, others would call it mass paranoia because it seems to detect fraud when none has taken place. All I ask for is a valid reason why you seem to beleive there is a problem with my account. Please do not give me the cop out answer that it would sacrafice the measures your security team takes.

And as for replying to another posters opinion (thesmacker) he is only stating the obvious as it would seem. I myself have not been with the casinomeister long, but follow other boards and see nothing but complaints about your overzelous securtiy department. It should have steered me clear from you guys in the first place. As well I did recieve my deposit to neteller, no winnings though, guess FL is running the win-win for the casinos promotions.

 

[fortunelounge]

johnnydemp

I will contact you directly regarding your request as it is not possible to publish the exact findings of our investigation.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group

 

[spearmaster]

If you think someone is a bonus abuser, for God's sake flag him/her, pay them out EVERYTHING you owe them to date and then tell them they are persona non grata and lock their accounts / take 'em off the promo mailing list. That is the correct way to handle these cases and everyone respects your right of admission.

Jetset hit the nail on the head here. Unfortunately, the casino managers do not appear to comprehend this - I myself have been telling them this for ages but sometimes I'd swear it was going in one ear and out the other.

 

[linda7]

HI Jetset,
Excellent Post!!!! Maybe, just maybe, casinos will understand that we players are thier bread and butter...and no, we do not ask for much, as stated by you.

Spearmaster, good to see you!!!!

 

[linda7]

FortuneLounge, while "thesmacker" may be new with casinomeister, I, am not. As a player, and no, I am not with your group, I am so sick and tired of ALL the nonsense when it comes to paying a player. You have a real chance here to make a difference in this frustrating and crooked industry.

What exactly happened with you people that gives you the confidence to think you have the right to investigate us players? You, yourself, admitted that you allow ANYONE to deposit and play, and the verification process does not take place until someone wants to cash-out, (While this is not an actual quote, this is what you implied).
It seems to me, that most online casinos, find a way to halt/hold/delay/or just not pay players, and you use the most ridiculous of all reasons to justify your actions.

Has it ever occured to any of you casino owners, that if we players made a concerted effort, we would definitely find that 99% of you have atleast one server located in the United States, and that would be enough to shut you down? While, we players have not done this as a group yet, I think it is something you should file in the back of your mind.

In closing, why not do what Jetset suggested. Pay JohnnyDean (and all the other players) the money you owe them, close their accounts and move on. Imagine a casino group actually doing the "right" thing. You would impress the hell out of me and earn some respect.

 

[linda7]

Dear Johnnydemp...please forgive me for misspelling your name in my above post. I hope that FL does right by you, as you have many supporters here at casinomeister.

Linda

 

[murder1]

Linda, AGREED 100%!!!!

 

[murder1]

Me Personally I would fool with FL its just another side kick of MicroGaming. I played at Fortune Lounge and wouldn't Dare stick one red cent into it again. I mainly play Sunny Groups Playtech. They are iffy at times. But never had a problem getting paid. BTW I had 4 of a kind in Let'em Ride on a $30 bet and won $1300 yesterday :<,). But lost $400 back play BJ Switch. It seems like their computer started to take over. So I called it quits!!!

 

[linda7]

WTGGGGG murder1 on your 4 of a kind...I love to hear when someone wins. I am glad you quit when you saw the luck change and hope you enjoy the balance of your win. Here's wishing you many more wins on your game of choice. :yes:

Linda

 

[johnnydemp]

"johnnydemp

I will contact you directly regarding your request as it is not possible to publish the exact findings of our investigation.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group"

Just to updaye everyone, since the FL VP posted this I have recieved NO response at all.
I guess they feel it is alright to steal my winnings if they pay back my deposit. Just to let the FL group know, this is not ok and I will continue to express my displeasure with them at every online forum I can find. It is important that players band together and avoid playing at casinos which find these actions acceptable so that they will realize that it is NOT ok to mistreat players.
I also recieved no apology for being so rudely treated over the phone by their support.
So until I either recieve a legitimate reason for them not paying me my winnings (for which I am sure they dont have), or recieve my winnings I will continue to let other players know of the terrible way which FL operates their business.

As well I would like to thank all the posters whom support my position. Perhaps together our voice will become loud enough that FL will be compelled to do the right thing and pay up what they owe me, and improve their awful service for future players.

 

[linda7]

JohnnyDemp,
This is definitely unacceptable behavior. I thought FL would atleast have the common decency to contact you with their reason for not paying you. I will continue to voice my displeasure with you. FL, if you read these posts, know that you are upsetting players more and more as time goes by. Communication with the players that you refuse to pay is the LEAST YOU CAN DO!!!!!

Wim, I am very disappointed in your group!

 

[fortunelounge]

We have already replied to johnnydemp this morning and the reason for the delay is that I had his documentation re-evaluated by an expert panel to verify our own conclusions.

Unfortunately the status quo remains.

He also received an apology for the "rude treatment" he received while speaking to one of our support staff. It is important for players to ensure that, when they speak to anyone, in any service department, anywhere, they always obtain the name of the person who handles the enquiry or complaint. This makes it easier for any manager to deal with the individual concerned.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group

 

[glodge]

Wim has contacted johnnydemp and stated why his account is flagged. However without actually seeing the e-mail everyone is jumping on the bash FL bandwagon.

With no recourse & unable to discuss the exact reason/s, Wim really can't say much can he.

This is starting to take on the atmosphere of WOL!

 

[glodge]

I do however believe that some form of resposibility lays with FL.

When I had some hassle's with PCS I would open an account & within a matter of hours ( 1 or 2 ) my account would be locked.

Now obviously security measures are in place, why was johnnydemp account not locked this quickly?
Why has it taken this long to sort this mess out?

As far as the CSR attiude, why does this not surprise me?

If FL was not prepared to accept his bets after they discovered the so call security issue/s, then FL should have credited back his deposit/s with in 24 hours.

 

[linda7]

Glodge, directly above your post, FL posted themselves that they contacted johnnydemp. Why you felt the need to reiterate the post is beyond me. While I am sure that Wim is grateful for your protective display of FL, as well as his reputation, my post was not FL bashing. I simply expect EVERY online casino to "play by the rules",as is DEMANDED by us players.
Have a nice day.

 

[glodge]

linda7,

I'm sorry was your name in my last post, I don't think so. In your words " Why you felt the need to reiterate the post is beyond me." I could express the same thought.

And in regards to your sarcastic remarks, haven't you been told, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour ( humor )

However just as your entitled to your opinion/s, so am I.

So far as casino's playing by the rules, I agree totally. Though obviously you have never been on the other side of the fence? have you!

Without going into the semantics, the high number of players trying to pull scams & fruad on a daily basis, is one of the main reasons the industry is so paraniod.

To many charge backs for instance & the casino gets penalized at $1,000US a hit, multiply that by 20 or so chargebacks a month, & you may start to realise what I'm talking about.

You have nice day also!

 

[jyde]

Are you saying they get penalized $1000 a hit - or $1000 a hit once they reach a certain level of chargebacks?
If that was true it would be good business for the cc-processor - and it would have no interest in fraudscreening before processing deposits.

A casino can have it's merchant account suspended/restricted because of a high number of rejected transactions or chargebacks. But the $1000 fine I find very unlikely. Who told you that?

 

[glodge]

jyde,

A $1,000US a transaction once they hit a % of chargebacks per month.

This practice of issuing a penalty for a chargeback is worn by any online business accepting CC transactions, though the fees & percentages of such remain on what type of online business it is & the risk factor of such a business. Also factored in, the length of time at which the business has been operational.

In fact Micki the CEO of eTrident Group & I were discussing this very subject a matter of a few weeks ago.

I've also experienced this first hand, I think that qualifies my knowledge.

May I suggest you research current chargeback protocols, pertaining to Visa & Mastercard in reflection to online businesses & their processing companies. This may bring you up to speed on this subject.

Added in answer to :
" If that was true it would be good business for the cc-processor - and it would have no interest in fraudscreening before processing deposits."

The processor gets hit with the chargeback who passes this onto the casino or business.

(Message edited by glodge on July 18, 2003)

 

[jyde]

Who is collecting the fine? VISA/Mastercard or the processor? Where do I find the relevant protocols so I can get "up to speed"?

 

[linda7]

glodge, I was not sarcastic in my post, I was honest. If the truth is seen by you as sarcasm, then that would be your problem not mine. Additionally, no I never heard that sarcasm was the lowest form of humour (humor). Is that why your opening line was SARCASTICALLY directed at me? Kindly let me know what casinos you are affiliated with, this way I make certain to NEVER patronize them. An additional heads up for you,
Wim and I communicate via email, as well. However, I do not feel the need to protect the FL group. If they are honest, they can take care of themselves. Apparently, you and I agree on one thing and one thing only, charge backs are wrong acts to commit, as it ruins gambling for the honorable player and does hurt online casinos.
Lastly, my post was being typed after I read your first post, and by the time I posted you had entered your second post. As much as I hate to be nice to you at this given moment, I will admit that had I read your second posting, I would have never bothered with mine. Your second post reflects the concerns of the player, which is what I thought this forum was all about. Protecting each other from crooked casinos.

 

[jpm]

I'd like to ask johnnydemp, now that he knows the reasons for his banishment from FL, if he'd like to share that with all of us in this thread? FL for obvious reasons cannot discuss the particulars any further. He's really the only one who can explain it without violating player confidentiality, since he is the player.

It sounds to me like it was something that the usual PCS checks wouldn't catch, as they really only deal with the payment side of things. And it may shed some light on why he was treated the way he was. Without knowing the reason behind the banishment, we really can't fairly judge FL's treatment of him.


(Message edited by jpm on July 18, 2003)

 

[glodge]

jpm,

I second that one, would be just as interested in finding out the details contained in THAT e-mail.

 

[cipher]

The only reason that FL would be even come close to the % of chargebacks level that would incur a $1,000US chargeback ultimately has to do with the way these people are doing business and in the way they are treating their clients. That is no ones fault other than FL.

All this secrecy "BS" is simply designed so as to deflect attention away from the real problem and that is FL's inability to deal in an honest and forthright manner.

Moreover it appears to me that this is the type of business practice that seems to be suggested as well as condoned by Micrograming itself.

Cipher

 

[glodge]

linda7,

Yes we are here to protect players, and hopefully guide them through our own experiences, to casino's who have integrity & hold a the respect for honesty in their business dealings.

However, just because a play yells foul, it does not mean it's the casino's fault everytime.

Situations such as this can & do get out of normal reasoning at times; myself included,
I'm not void of blame or fault either.

I do hold a strong sense of passion towards this industry and would simply like to see all good casino's prevail, whilst watching the rogues kicked to the kirb.

My concern & reason for standing up for Wim ( FL ) was in essence based on my beliefs.

I'm sorry for allowing my emotions boil over.

(Message edited by glodge on July 18, 2003)

 

[linda7]

Hi Glodge,
I also am sorry for getting emotional. If I offended or upset you, please accept my apology. We are both hoping for the same things with regard to the gambling industry, and I am in total agreement with wanting only the good casinos to exist. Once again, please excuse me if I hurt your feelings or angered you in any way, that was never my intention.

Linda

 

[johnnydemp]

"My apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

On evaluation of the documents you provided as verification of your account
and purchases, 5 points of obvious and serious discrepancy were identified
on the copy of your credit card that cannot allow us to keep your accounts
open with us. Also, the very obvious difference between the photograph on
your driver's license and your student card adds to the suspicion.

In order to be absolutely certain that we are not reacting incorrectly, I
had your documentation assessed again by a panel of experts and the outcome
remained the same.

During your play with us, you purchased and amount of $1 000, received
bonuses to the amount of $400, and cashed in $1 230.

We have already refunded your purchase of $ 1 000 which you did not mention
in any of your postings. It is not our policy to pay any winnings when
evident fraud has been committed and the casino reserves the right of
admission to ensure that legitimate player interests are protected..

I notice that you make mention of rude service you experienced from our Call
Center and for that I apologize. I will address the issue in general with my
staff but due to the lack of a specific name, I am not able to deal with the
individual who was responsible for this.

Regards

Wim
VP Operations
Fortune Lounge"

Firstly, if this explanation doesnt seem too out there for you take in these facts,

1) I have used this ID and recieved no problems at Golden Palace, Casino Tropez, Captain Cooks Casino, Casino Kingdom, Slots casino, Sun Palace, and these are just the ones of the top of my head, and I have NEVER been questioned on it before.
2) I used the very same ID to have my neteller account certified.

Therefore, how can the ID be accepted by so many other people except for Fortune Room casino? Are their experts that more far advanced then all these other places? And since the ID is real anyhow why do they make themselves look so moronic unnessecarily?

Also, my student card and Drivers liscence look exactly the same, and even if they dont, do people within the FL group not have changes in appearance from year to year? I guess time stands still from where there from.

I hope others now see that these guys are simply running a scam, withholding my winnings from me with such weak excuses is so criminal its not even funny.

 

[kidgamer]

"had your documentation assessed by a panel of experts"



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

what a bunch of BS.
Thanks for the posting FL's reply, johnnydepp. Biggest laugh I've had in a week.

 

[murder1]

Man FUG MicroGaming they are CROOKS. Fortune Lounge is MicroGaming they are CROOKS. I wouldn't stick one red cent into another MicroGaming rigged System if It was the only online gaming on the NET. You deserve to get paid. You paid them and they accepted it. If you would have lost. You couldn't get your money back. They couldn't careless about your ID then. Fug them MuthaFuckas they are supporting Terrorism from what Im hearing. And there maybe a Bin Laden connection with this group. Scums is what they are. Scums! FL, pay the man his got damn money. And be through with it. Or face a mass boycott against your service. People play Sunny Group Casinos. They pay fair and Square. None of this ID Bull$hit. Before you fugging know it. MicroGaming will want your finger Print, Hair Sample, Chip in your hand, and Face Scan. Just to receive your winnings. You Muthafuckas are SCUMS! Cheating people out of their money.

 

[jinnia]

uummmm, just a question here, does the nic murder1 have anything to do with the personality?

just kidding ..

you are right, FL is in the wrong, in my opinion anyway, they need to stop the BS and just pay, they already have our money, so why don't they do what is right and just pay when someone wins?

Gambling is a game of chance, that's for the player AND the casino, we pay up front to play. Why not give the player the credits to play with, and let the casino wait for the player to send the monies to them?

 

[thesmacker]

That is one of the weaker excuses for not paying someone. I hope the people who read this thread abandon this group. As I understand it, when I sent ID FL only asked for a utility bill and passport or drivers liscence, so saying that his credit card and student card are illegitimate is irrelevent. The way I see it, this player sent far beyond what they were asking for and is being penalized for it. It seems more like a case of FL simply not wanting to pay. Disgraceful IMO.

 

[pokeraddict]

I've had a public forum about 2 complaints ive had about this group, once they locked me out cause i was a bonus abuser or something after a small win, then after a firepay screw up (not FL's fault cause paradise had same issue) i had another issue so ive tried to stay out of this but this is TOTAL BS. If the email that was posted is exactly as FL wrote it then this cannot be excused. I know there are some loyal players and backers in casinomeister so i can only assume that they have done a good job over the years but as ive read several threads on several portals about bouncing checks they stopped payment on "for security reason" its a joke. Issue a check, mail it, then stop payment. Sorry, ive watched others say their opinion so it was my turn, especially with the bad experience i had. :axeman2: BASH THEM

(Message edited by Pokeraddict on July 19, 2003)

 

[gramsey]

which ones are sunny group casinos?

 

[murder1]

goto Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) for list of sunny group casinos and signup bonuses

 

[gramsey]

Thanks.. murder1

 

[glodge]

jinnia,

" Gambling is a game of chance, that's for the player AND the casino, we pay up front to play. Why not give the player the credits to play
with, and let the casino wait for the player to send the monies to them? "

This would make for an interesting experience, one that many casino's may learn from. Imagine their ( the casino's ) protest, if a player reported to follow :

Since receiving my credits, I have since learned that your credentials are not of an agreeable standard of which one would expect from this industry. Hence your payment for the credits will not be sent.




(Message edited by glodge on July 19, 2003)

 

[jinnia]

Exactly glodge! Wouldn't that be nice, let them see how it is on the other end. --fantasy world--

--Real world-- in my opinion from playing online casino's over the last 12 months, they all are crooks. Fair Play?? Not at all, unless the meaning to that is, ' ALL players lose', so it's fair play for all.

I've got one casino left installed on my system. And after this morning, that one will be gone also, finally made a trip to a land casino the other day, after many months of helping support the crooks online, I forgot just how much I love the land casino's, so it's back to them now.

I always come home a winner, maybe not in money, but a winner for getting out of the house, meeting new people and most times making a new friend, out and about LIVING not sitting online and letting life pass me by. That's a winning experience. Though I do come home with more money than I take Attach Removed (Old not found)

 

[glodge]

jinnia,

Unforuntely the way online gambling is setup, the player is always going be at the mercy of the gambling venue.

I will say however, that there still are a number of high class establishments, that operate their enterprises with the same integrity as one would expect from any international land based conterpart.

Although at the end of the day, if you go to a land based casino, your not subjected to BS online casino dramas. If you win, you walk out with your cash in hand.

 

[jinnia]

That is correct glodge. hit a jackpot, they are right there handing you the money, no questions asked, unless you hit a very big one playing max coins, then it's your name and ss# for tax purposes, but takes only a few minutes to do so.

OnLuck and FiveRoses are the only two I've had loaded and playing online, FiveRose got uninstalled last night, too TOO high progressives. OnLuck will be out of system later this day.

Then will have money to go land based and have fun while doing it with no Attach Removed (Old not found)

 

[glodge]

jinnia,

Do you have to supply your SS# when you hit a big win at a land based casino?

I'm in Australia & was with a friend at Crown Casino ( http://www.crownltd.com.au )who hit $18,768AUD, the only thing they were asked is if they wanted it all in a cheque, all in cash or spilt up between both.

Suppling the SS# has to suck, does it?

(Message edited by glodge on July 19, 2003)

 

[jinnia]

glodge,

yes, if you hit a jackpot using the max coins, they take your name and SS# number for tax purposes, they withhold the State tax out right then, hmm, come to think about it, Tunica Mississippi done this, but Boonville Missouri didn't...!??

Hit one in Mississippi about 2 years ago, Missouri was just last year, but Missouri has passed a law stating it is now illegal to ask for someones SS#, so may be why when hit in Boonville, Missouri, they didn't ask for it.. gawd, have no idea.. I will find out the though.

It may differ from state to State, don't know.

No, I have no problem giving out my SS#, but, don't ask for it ...grin..

 

[jetset]

Jeez, Murder 1 - get a grip!

"...they are supporting Terrorism from what Im hearing. And there maybe a Bin Laden connection
with this group." ??????????

Where did that come from - care to elaborate?

And try and control your language just a little for God's sake - do you behave like this in public?

I agree that FL is not playing the game squarely here, and this unwise decision reeks of a cover-up for an unreasonable disqualification.

This is very, very disappointing, Wim and you need to get hold of this problem and sort it out properly and soon.

 

[crushgrove]

Hello Casinomeister members,

I was talking to one of my chat room friends the other day about online casinos and mentioned a casino not paying me for some very strange reasons.

I explained to her and she is a member at this site and remarkably told me that she has been following a forum with a player who is currently in the same situation as me at the exact same casino.

She told me to come here and state my case, as some of the members, and the "casinomeister" himself could help me retrieve my money.

This was a great relief as it is quite a bit of money that I had written off due to the fact that I was getting nowhere with emails and phone calls with Fortune Room casino.

Amazingly enough I was sent an email saying that my identification including my drivers liscence, visa, and 2 utilitiy bills was found to be fraudulent.

This was such a surprise to me because I know the identification is real and same as johnnydemp I have used it at a number of different casinos.

The unbeleivable thing is that in talking to the support at Fortune Room they do not budge on their position and say that I will be recieving no money back from them which includes a 1000$ deposit.

Can anyone help me, that Vice President of FL is there anyway to contact him to help sort this out?

 

[glodge]

crushgrove,

Would really be interested in sighting the e-mail you received from FL. Could you post it here?
Obviously remove e-mail contacts from the e-mail before posting it here.

 

[crushgrove]

After questioning why my account had been locked and my cashin not processed this is the response I got,

Hi ABCXD,

I have liased with the casinos security department regarding your casino
account and was advised that the reason for the locked account is due to the
fact that the casinos billing department had picked up a few discrepancies
with the details that you have registered with the casino. For these reasons
the casino accounts will remain locked.

Please understand that due to security reasons we are not at liberty to
disclose our security routines on how certain accounts are locked out. This
is purely to protect the casino and the players that we have with us. By
bridging this conduct we are therefore clearly enclosing information that
can be used by fraudulent players to hurt us.

I trust that you will understand what I mean by this.

Sincerely

Zen
Customer Care Consultant


This answer is not satisfactory in my books, is there anyone who can help me get my cash back, I see that I cannot pitch a bitch because the "casinomeister" is on holidays.