Fortune Room Steals Money

[fortunelounge]

johnnydemp has been informed that we will be refunding his purchase.

The account will, however, remain locked.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group

 

[thesmacker]

Doesnt this solution to some obvious flaws in their service seem a little upsidedown. They let you make a deposit, risk your own money, then when you win they keep your winnings and send your deposit back. FL just keeps getting sketchier by the day.

I find it hard to believe that the casinomeister backs them with the enormous amount of problems they have caused in the last 6 months. It seems there are more posts with problems with FL then most RTG's.

 

[fortunelounge]

thesmacker

This may seem to be a flaw in our system but in this particular case it is not.

Although we make use of some very sophisticated fraud detection systems, it is not always possible to detect fraud at an early stage. It is also not practical to refuse a player to purchase and play until the verification process has been completed and therefore there will be incidences where accounts will be locked after a player has purchased. We constantly attempt to keep such occurences to a minimum.

I notice that you have only recently signed up with Casinomeister and you may not be aware of previous postings where we have rectified cases where we were indeed wrong. You also do not seem to be aware of the drastic changes in policies and procedures that were implemented as a result of forum postings.

You may well have the perception that Casinomeister backs us. He is as tough on us as he is on anyone else and he does not hesitate to rap us over the knuckles when we are in the wrong.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group

 

[glodge]

fortunelounge,

Heard you have been on vacation for the past few weeks. Just wondering when I would be receiving an e-mail reagarding the matter we have spoke about?

To refresh your memory, you did mention that the operations manager would be in contact with me regarding this matter, the next day; that was 2 - 3 weeks ago.

 

[jetset]

Fortune Lounge, I think a little communication goes a long way - particularly when you are holding up a player's payment or have locked his/her account without an adequate explanation whilst your security looks at real or possible fraud.

Try *talking* to players that you put in this very undesirable position - you will find that the genuine players are less likely to explode into frustrated anger if you are accessible, make sure the delay is as short as humanly possible and explain to them what the hell is going on. Answering their emails in a sensible way can really help.


We all know that casinos can have a tough time with fraudster players and need to protect themselves, but I'm pretty sure the fraudsters are in the minority.

The worst thing you can do is make arbitrary decisions like disqualifying bonuses and winnings without giving the player an acceptable explanation and an opportunity to present his or her side of the case.

Everyone is getting really pissed off with the "you're on a negative database for no particular reason" or "you're a bonus abuser-period" as *reasons* for removing often significant sums of money from player accounts that have been genuinely earned.

If you think someone is a bonus abuser, for God's sake flag him/her, pay them out EVERYTHING you owe them to date and then tell them they are persona non grata and lock their accounts / take 'em off the promo mailing list. That is the correct way to handle these cases and everyone respects your right of admission.

Casino managers of decent operations have been around for long enough, and read enough message board postings to know what is or is not acceptable conduct from the genuine players' point of view.

They don't actually expect that much from you - good customer service, fair games and honest dealings that include timeous payouts.

Don't let your security people throw the baby out with the bathwater by clumsy misjudgements and notifications, and then as the head man ignore or refuse to entertain the player's side of the story.

 

[glodge]

Hi All,

Not trying to derail the thread, but just wanted to say that I have spoken with Wim ( fortunelounge ) and we have successfully addressed the matter of which I refered to in posting in this thread.

IMO now that Wim ( fortunelounge ) has returned from vacation, matters which have been overlooked will hopefully be resolved quickly & in the manner of which one expects from an enterprise such as FL Group.

 

[johnnydemp]

FL VP,

Please enlighten me as to what was wrong with my identification. I sent an email and asked you but recieved no logical response. Just saying that there were discrepencies in the ID is not adequate as the ID had been used to prove my address and identity with numerous other casinos. It would seem that your fraud detection security, as you say is advanced, others would call it mass paranoia because it seems to detect fraud when none has taken place. All I ask for is a valid reason why you seem to beleive there is a problem with my account. Please do not give me the cop out answer that it would sacrafice the measures your security team takes.

And as for replying to another posters opinion (thesmacker) he is only stating the obvious as it would seem. I myself have not been with the casinomeister long, but follow other boards and see nothing but complaints about your overzelous securtiy department. It should have steered me clear from you guys in the first place. As well I did recieve my deposit to neteller, no winnings though, guess FL is running the win-win for the casinos promotions.

 

[fortunelounge]

johnnydemp

I will contact you directly regarding your request as it is not possible to publish the exact findings of our investigation.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group

 

[spearmaster]

If you think someone is a bonus abuser, for God's sake flag him/her, pay them out EVERYTHING you owe them to date and then tell them they are persona non grata and lock their accounts / take 'em off the promo mailing list. That is the correct way to handle these cases and everyone respects your right of admission.

Jetset hit the nail on the head here. Unfortunately, the casino managers do not appear to comprehend this - I myself have been telling them this for ages but sometimes I'd swear it was going in one ear and out the other.

 

[linda7]

HI Jetset,
Excellent Post!!!! Maybe, just maybe, casinos will understand that we players are thier bread and butter...and no, we do not ask for much, as stated by you.

Spearmaster, good to see you!!!!

 

[linda7]

FortuneLounge, while "thesmacker" may be new with casinomeister, I, am not. As a player, and no, I am not with your group, I am so sick and tired of ALL the nonsense when it comes to paying a player. You have a real chance here to make a difference in this frustrating and crooked industry.

What exactly happened with you people that gives you the confidence to think you have the right to investigate us players? You, yourself, admitted that you allow ANYONE to deposit and play, and the verification process does not take place until someone wants to cash-out, (While this is not an actual quote, this is what you implied).
It seems to me, that most online casinos, find a way to halt/hold/delay/or just not pay players, and you use the most ridiculous of all reasons to justify your actions.

Has it ever occured to any of you casino owners, that if we players made a concerted effort, we would definitely find that 99% of you have atleast one server located in the United States, and that would be enough to shut you down? While, we players have not done this as a group yet, I think it is something you should file in the back of your mind.

In closing, why not do what Jetset suggested. Pay JohnnyDean (and all the other players) the money you owe them, close their accounts and move on. Imagine a casino group actually doing the "right" thing. You would impress the hell out of me and earn some respect.

 

[linda7]

Dear Johnnydemp...please forgive me for misspelling your name in my above post. I hope that FL does right by you, as you have many supporters here at casinomeister.

Linda

 

[murder1]

Linda, AGREED 100%!!!!

 

[murder1]

Me Personally I would fool with FL its just another side kick of MicroGaming. I played at Fortune Lounge and wouldn't Dare stick one red cent into it again. I mainly play Sunny Groups Playtech. They are iffy at times. But never had a problem getting paid. BTW I had 4 of a kind in Let'em Ride on a $30 bet and won $1300 yesterday :<,). But lost $400 back play BJ Switch. It seems like their computer started to take over. So I called it quits!!!

 

[linda7]

WTGGGGG murder1 on your 4 of a kind...I love to hear when someone wins. I am glad you quit when you saw the luck change and hope you enjoy the balance of your win. Here's wishing you many more wins on your game of choice. :yes:

Linda

 

[johnnydemp]

"johnnydemp

I will contact you directly regarding your request as it is not possible to publish the exact findings of our investigation.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group"

Just to updaye everyone, since the FL VP posted this I have recieved NO response at all.
I guess they feel it is alright to steal my winnings if they pay back my deposit. Just to let the FL group know, this is not ok and I will continue to express my displeasure with them at every online forum I can find. It is important that players band together and avoid playing at casinos which find these actions acceptable so that they will realize that it is NOT ok to mistreat players.
I also recieved no apology for being so rudely treated over the phone by their support.
So until I either recieve a legitimate reason for them not paying me my winnings (for which I am sure they dont have), or recieve my winnings I will continue to let other players know of the terrible way which FL operates their business.

As well I would like to thank all the posters whom support my position. Perhaps together our voice will become loud enough that FL will be compelled to do the right thing and pay up what they owe me, and improve their awful service for future players.

 

[linda7]

JohnnyDemp,
This is definitely unacceptable behavior. I thought FL would atleast have the common decency to contact you with their reason for not paying you. I will continue to voice my displeasure with you. FL, if you read these posts, know that you are upsetting players more and more as time goes by. Communication with the players that you refuse to pay is the LEAST YOU CAN DO!!!!!

Wim, I am very disappointed in your group!

 

[fortunelounge]

We have already replied to johnnydemp this morning and the reason for the delay is that I had his documentation re-evaluated by an expert panel to verify our own conclusions.

Unfortunately the status quo remains.

He also received an apology for the "rude treatment" he received while speaking to one of our support staff. It is important for players to ensure that, when they speak to anyone, in any service department, anywhere, they always obtain the name of the person who handles the enquiry or complaint. This makes it easier for any manager to deal with the individual concerned.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group

 

[glodge]

Wim has contacted johnnydemp and stated why his account is flagged. However without actually seeing the e-mail everyone is jumping on the bash FL bandwagon.

With no recourse & unable to discuss the exact reason/s, Wim really can't say much can he.

This is starting to take on the atmosphere of WOL!

 

[glodge]

I do however believe that some form of resposibility lays with FL.

When I had some hassle's with PCS I would open an account & within a matter of hours ( 1 or 2 ) my account would be locked.

Now obviously security measures are in place, why was johnnydemp account not locked this quickly?
Why has it taken this long to sort this mess out?

As far as the CSR attiude, why does this not surprise me?

If FL was not prepared to accept his bets after they discovered the so call security issue/s, then FL should have credited back his deposit/s with in 24 hours.

 

[linda7]

Glodge, directly above your post, FL posted themselves that they contacted johnnydemp. Why you felt the need to reiterate the post is beyond me. While I am sure that Wim is grateful for your protective display of FL, as well as his reputation, my post was not FL bashing. I simply expect EVERY online casino to "play by the rules",as is DEMANDED by us players.
Have a nice day.

 

[glodge]

linda7,

I'm sorry was your name in my last post, I don't think so. In your words " Why you felt the need to reiterate the post is beyond me." I could express the same thought.

And in regards to your sarcastic remarks, haven't you been told, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour ( humor )

However just as your entitled to your opinion/s, so am I.

So far as casino's playing by the rules, I agree totally. Though obviously you have never been on the other side of the fence? have you!

Without going into the semantics, the high number of players trying to pull scams & fruad on a daily basis, is one of the main reasons the industry is so paraniod.

To many charge backs for instance & the casino gets penalized at $1,000US a hit, multiply that by 20 or so chargebacks a month, & you may start to realise what I'm talking about.

You have nice day also!

 

[jyde]

Are you saying they get penalized $1000 a hit - or $1000 a hit once they reach a certain level of chargebacks?
If that was true it would be good business for the cc-processor - and it would have no interest in fraudscreening before processing deposits.

A casino can have it's merchant account suspended/restricted because of a high number of rejected transactions or chargebacks. But the $1000 fine I find very unlikely. Who told you that?

 

[glodge]

jyde,

A $1,000US a transaction once they hit a % of chargebacks per month.

This practice of issuing a penalty for a chargeback is worn by any online business accepting CC transactions, though the fees & percentages of such remain on what type of online business it is & the risk factor of such a business. Also factored in, the length of time at which the business has been operational.

In fact Micki the CEO of eTrident Group & I were discussing this very subject a matter of a few weeks ago.

I've also experienced this first hand, I think that qualifies my knowledge.

May I suggest you research current chargeback protocols, pertaining to Visa & Mastercard in reflection to online businesses & their processing companies. This may bring you up to speed on this subject.

Added in answer to :
" If that was true it would be good business for the cc-processor - and it would have no interest in fraudscreening before processing deposits."

The processor gets hit with the chargeback who passes this onto the casino or business.

(Message edited by glodge on July 18, 2003)

 

[jyde]

Who is collecting the fine? VISA/Mastercard or the processor? Where do I find the relevant protocols so I can get "up to speed"?