Fortune Room Steals Money

[jinnia]

Crushgrove,

Keep this link :Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

til I hear back from them. I'll post what I find out, I do know they investigate within USA AND abroad. Not sure if not paying an online casino player constitutes fraud, I would think so, it's done online and it is a form of fraud.

Waiting to hear back from FBI about this.

May not hurt sending an email to Fortune Group telling them this is not satisfactory with you, and you'll be letting the Internet Fraud Center ... which is the FBI...investigate, just to see if you get a response at all from them.

It's WAY past time to take it to the top with these casino's whose actions are that of a thief and a liar.

 

[glodge]

crushgrove,

Hmmm very interesting, thanks for posting the e-mail. May I ask when the date/s of when you were locked out of your account?

From your first post, is it right of me to assume you have not received any of your deposited money back?

 

[linda7]

Crushgrove,
You did state in your earlier post that they will not even refund your deposit of $1000 is that correct? If so, I wonder why Wim emailed me personally and told that the FL groups do refund the original deposits if they suspect fraudulent activity. Wim, you seemed to be very proud of this fact...care to comment?

 

[glodge]

jinnia,

I can understand your motivation, people who break the law should be accountable. However IMO unless some type of class action was taken out against a company, I doubt that the FBI would get involved.

Back in 2001 an ezboard Forum Owner attempted to blackmail me into providing a sum of money, in exchange for the retraction of their lies posted to their forum, regarding a site I was operating at the time. As I live in Australia, I contacted the AFP & also the FBI. Unfortunely in both cases, although it was deemed extortion, the amount was to little to worry about in their regard.

Civil proceedings were suggested.

This may be the same case here.


IMO a casino simply can't lock an account & then not return the players money, that's BS!
And it is my view if the casino locks an account & then will not unlock it, the casino should pay back ALL the money this player has deposited, from the date they first opened the account.

This payment should be processed within 24 hours.

 

[jinnia]

This info may already be posted here somewhere, but going to post it now for any one new here:

Warning if you download casino software and its icon looks like the following, Attach Removed (Old not found) it is part of the Virtual Casino Group.

List of clone casino's owned by Virtual Casino Group
Software provider: Real Time Gaming

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May be only a partial list for they tend to pop up as fast as rabbits breed, and some may not operate now, but just keep watch for that icon and avoid these casino's at all cost.

EXTREME CAUTION

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&

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are fronts for Virtual Casino Group

If I'm wrong, or this is old information, correct me and I apologize.

 

[linda7]

Jinna,
I agree with you regarding land based casinos.
Just to give you a heads up regarding the taxes involved, this is what you do. If possible, never let them deduct the taxes from the winnings upon paying you. I am assuming you use your casino card everytime you gamble at the casino. This allows the casino to keep track of each and every bet you make while playing at the casino. At the end of the year, request a "Win/loss statement" for both table play and slots. Request this from every land based casino you played at during that year. While you may have won at one casino, the losings (if any) from other casinos, allow you to cancel out your jackpots and then you owe nothing to the IRS. This is perfectly legal, since you only pay taxes on "winnings" of all your casino play combined.

Sorry for going off topic everyone, I just wanted to help Jinna.

 

[glodge]

jinnia,

I can understand your motivation, people who break the law should be accountable. However IMO unless some type of class action was taken out against a company, I doubt that the FBI would get involved.

Back in 2001 an ezboard Forum Owner attempted to blackmail me into providing a sum of money, in exchange for the retraction of their lies posted to their forum, regarding a site I was operating at the time. As I live in Australia, I contacted the AFP & also the FBI. Unfortunely in both cases, although it was deemed extortion, the amount was to little to worry about in their regard.

Civil proceedings were suggested.

This may be the same case here.


IMO a casino simply can't lock an account & then not return the players money, that's BS!
And it is my view if the casino locks an account & then will not unlock it, the casino should pay back ALL the money this player has deposited, from the date they first opened the account.

This payment should be processed within 24 hours.

 

[jinnia]

True, I know nothing of this sort, but not afraid to ask questions at any place I find that seems they may be able to help... below is what is said on the site::

----------
How It Works

The IFCC is based in Morgantown, West Virginia, where the National White Collar Crime Center is also located. Hosted on a secure server, the fraud complaint site allows victims to describe the fraud they are reporting.

The IFCC will analyze the complaints to determine jurisdiction, conduct analytical and investigative work, and disseminate the information to the appropriate local, state or federal law enforcement agencies for criminal, civil or administrative action. The IFCC will also try to track down perpetrators in the United States and abroad, the FBI said.

In addition to giving consumers a place to lodge their complaints, the IFCC will give law enforcement agencies at the local, state and federal level a central place to look up pending cases, get statistics on Internet fraud, and find information on fraud patterns and trends.
--------------

For now, I'm waiting to hear back from them and if what has been done to me, fraudulant debits and theft by deceit over the internet constitutes Internet Fraud, I'm filing!! And all who has been had by an online casino, do the same!!

From what I read on the site, they are trying to locate and prosecute businesses of any kind that is showing a pattern of sorts that may be terrorism funding and racketeering. So hopefully it'll be looked into, closely!

 

[jinnia]

linda7,

I don't file taxes any way, I'm exempt from them.

And if a casino wants to take out money from my winnings for their State tax, that's fine, TIL, they try taking it all, then a fight is on .. grin...

But thank you very much for the information, I do have a friend I'll relay it to.

 

[glodge]

jinnia,

" I don't file taxes any way, I'm exempt from them. "

How did you manage this?

 

[glodge]

linda7,

The IRS thing and land based casino taxes, does the IRS allow this for online casino's also?

 

[jinnia]

glodge,

Actually two reasons, I draw a disability check for now, don't file on the monies from, and hmmmmm, ok, will tell, I'm also a Reverend ...smile...

 

[glodge]

jimmia,

Hmmm a gambling Reverend, now that's got to be a first? No disrespect intended

To bad to hear you on a disability allowance now though.



(Message edited by glodge on July 19, 2003)

 

[crushgrove]

Yes all, I have recieved no deposit back and was told I would not recieve one.

Does anyone have the email of the Vice prez guy that appeared on this thread as I wouldnt mind emailing him because their general customer service would appear to be a dead end.

 

[jinnia]

From what I have read on the online casino Rules/Policy, etc. It states it is the players sole responsibility to report winnings to their IRS ---whoever governs taxes...

so I would guess that would be the loses also. If not illegal to gamble online where you live.

But unless someone turns you in, how are they going to find out if you gamble online or not? ---shrug...

 

[jinnia]

glodge,

now why would that surprise you? Look at the history of Reverends, Ministers, Preachers, whatever they are. Swaggert, Baker and a few others, at least I'm not doing those things...smile...

Though I can perform marriages, do what a Reverend can do, I practice more along the line, as to do right, and help stop wrong doings that hurt others, and listen when someone is hurting and needs to talk.

Thank you... the disability stems from chronic migraines, not a day goes by without having at least two that kicks my behind.

 

[glodge]

jinnia,

Hey that's cool, just can't say I've met a lot of Ministers who openly admit to a vice such as gambling.

I'm sure you do a grand job all the same

You take it easy ok!

( see what a six pack does to your grammer - to instead of do )

(Message edited by glodge on July 19, 2003)

 

[jamesdean]

So now we have another player being ripped of by FL. This is crazy, why dont those cheap skates accept the fact that people can win with their bonuses and do the right thing and pay up. Why do they insist on doing such obviously sketchy things and incurring such bad press. Guess FL isnt to bright.

 

[jamesdean]

BTW getting the FBI involved in these casinos defrauding players and acting as if they are a real legit business should be unnessecary. I thought casinos that appear on the Casinomeisters reputable list were suppose to be just that. Perhaps when the meister gets back he will have some work to do defending his own reputation since he seems to back casinos which seem to be not so reputable.

 

[jinnia]

I don't think the meister defends these casino's, he only has them listed here. And no one knows if a casino is a good one or not til people play there and they get burned, then make it known. If only a few players complain, that's normal, but when it tends to be a mounting amount of players being burned, then yes, it's time to rogue them.

 

[jinnia]

glodge,

copy/paste: jinnia,

Hey that's cool, just can't say I've met a lot of Ministers who openly admit to a vice such as gambling.

I'm sure you do a grand job all the same

You take it easy ok!

( see what a six pack does to your grammer - to instead of do )

It's my own money, and don't hurt no one playing the slots, well, except my own self >,the bank account that is), and I'm honest, so couldn't lie about what I do.

I sound like Daffy Duck after a six pack .. lol

Actually, I don't like beer, but, I do go out once in a great while, sit back, listen to country music, might do a two step and have a Strawberry Daquari >,sp?<,.

 

[glodge]

IMO give the industry another 12 months & I think we may all find us saying, sh#t I'd never have thought that casino would have done this or that.

To many casino's to much competition, something has to give or break somewhere.

 

[jamesdean]

Jinnia, how can the meister not defend these casinos, it is through his opinion that a casino is labelled reputable with players trusting his opinion. If he does not stand behind his choices then the reputable section has absolutely no accountability. He has seen a number of complaints with FL over the past 5 months yet they still remain as reputable, to me this is a gross error and I dont even deal with FL anymore due to their lack of commitment to quality customer service. They cant even handle making a payment to the choice which you gave them. To me this group is totally incompetent and has a propensity to cry fraud whenever they dont feel like paying someone. Perhaps if they put as much time into customer service as they do for their fraud happy security they could run a quality operation.

 

[The Dude]

Jeezus! I go away for a few days and everyone goes bonkers. Yes, when I get back (next week) I'll be lookng nto this. I've been n contact wth FL whle I have been gone, and I agree that the casino has detected fraud. It may be that johnnydemp s yankng your chains here. Upon my return, I'll see if he would like to forward me the IDs and credit cards. I'll have a looksee myself.

The FL group s perhaps the largest casino group ouot there. With the amount of customer servce ssues that are processed daly, they would make your head spn. I'll see about gettng some stats on this upon my return as well.

Perhaps seeing this n one big picture, some of you won't have the knee jerk reaction that you've had. I consder ths group of casinos to be one of the better crowd. When they make mstakes, they admit it. When players are banned, they state why. They aren't cheaters. They aren't crooks. I think some of you are letting your emotions gettng the best of you.

More on this upon my return.

 

[linda7]

Hi glodge,
No, unfortunately we cannot claim losses from online casinos, atleast not here in the US.
It is illegal gambling in the eyes of the US. Kind of like gambling with your neighborhood bookie..lol. Also, since we do not pay taxes on online winnings, we cannot claim the losses.

Linda

 

[johnnydemp]

Please casinomeister, enlighten me as to why you feel the casino has detected fraud. Because they say so? If you would like a copy of the ID I sent I would be happy to send it. Eventhough you are not an expert on the issue of fake ID, are you? For one the experts at FL could not even decipher that I had sent back and front of my bank card not a visa. They must be real experts if they cant even differentiate between the two. The fact that you are siding with the casino with no proof puts you in the same position as the people who have written that the casino is in the wrong. I assure you the ID is not fake, and eventhough you are not an authority on the subject (excuse me if you are) I will send it to you if you give me your email address.

 

[cipher]

No offense to you Bryan but, anytime that an organization such as FL who purports to be as large as they would have everyone believe they are. Should have the ability to employ more than one person that can respond factually and with reliable information to a player's inquiry without going dead silent to multiple emails, phone calls and repeated posts.

I'm not relying on anything that's been said by anyone other than WIM himself.

If it "proves-out" that Johnnydemp as well now another person with the exact same problem are wrong then so be it. But the absolute lack of professionalism as demonstrated by this FL group is nothing short of abhorrent and should not be condoned and/or sanctioned in any shape matter or form.

Recently, you mentioned in another instance that "where there is smoke there is generally fire" or words to that effect. This latest issue as well as other issues related to the FL group of not even a month ago certainly have created a great deal of smoke again.

 

[jinnia]

jamesdean,

defending and advertising someone or something are two different things.

I'm sure as soon as the meister gets back from his vacation, he'll help get to the bottom of it, or at least try his best to do so.

 

[pokeraddict]

I agree with Johnnydemp, just because FL says this is fraud doesnt make it fact. Going to back the incident with firepay, why was it me that scammed them? Bryan took the side in an instant citing emails they forwarded to him that i wrote before i got to the bottom of it. That was fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion and i never thought any less of him for it, i find the site to be much more informative the the petty $$ they were trying to get me to pay twice. FL never for a second would consider the error (if there really was one)was somewhere else. Once all the checks cleared there was always a check # missing of $120 but the combined amount claimed to be owed was over $400 with FL claiming #'s all over the place from $120-$290. With more then enough $$ in my money market/stock portofolio to make a 25% down payment on my house in this account i bounced a ACH that both my bank and firepay say cleared? I even forwarded the firepay email that said "Your account is in good standing" twice with the contact name even though firepay would never answer my phone calls. It was just assumed i was a crook EVEN after i offered to meet them somewhere in the middle and wire to them immediately since it seemed the fault may not have been either one of us. They even had the nerve to call my old house at 6:30am, a clear violation of fair debt collecting practices in my country, they were 1 more phone call from having authorites notified of their behavior. After the second forward of the firepay email i never heard from them about this but now over the next few months all these complaints about non payment and bounced checks make me realize it was all it may have been a scam to begin with. I sure am glad they insisted i send full amount they claim i owed, which i refused to do because it was generous enough of me to offer to meet them halfway, because if i had met them halfway i would feel totally ripped of now.



(Message edited by Pokeraddict on July 20, 2003)

 

[The Dude]

Yeah, let me get back to this when I get home At the moment, the casino has detailed to me what they felt was wrong with the documentation. I am proposing that johnnydemp provide for me the same things, thus I can see where what went askew

There was also an ncedent where colincastor provided a casino with what they claimed was fraudulent ID stuff. I convinced them that he exists. His winnngs were awarded after that

Turksh keyboards suck! I have to guess where half of the keys are!

Anyway, please wait until I get home (mddle of next week) Johnnydemp, you may send whatever you sent to the casino to my adress n the forum Thanks!

 

[crushgrove]

Hi Mr Meister, I think I have a similar claim as the one which originally began this thread. I was wondering if you could help me to get my money back, I am currently owed 1500$ which includes a 1000$ deposit. I hope you are able to help me out.
Thank you

 

[fortunelounge]

I am currently investigating why chrushgrove's account was locked and will report back later during the day.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[fortunelounge]

After personally re-assessing the documentation crushgrove supplied, I had his account re-opened and the cash-in is currently being processed.

Although I can understand why the decision was made to lock the account, it has now prompted me to implement a process where I will personally evaluate every account that is locked in order to ensure that we do not have a situation such as this again.

Again, we regard comments and complaints in this forum in a very serious light and will investigate each and every issue. If we are wrong, we are wrong and we will not deny it. On the other hand, when we act and react as in the case of johnnydemp, it is with absolute conviction and proof.

As mentioned before, we accept the fact that we do make mistakes and that it is not possible to live up to every player's expectations. We are, however, putting in an enormous effort to improve.

I, again, invite any player who has had an unsatisfactory experience with us to contact me directly and I will personally deal with the issue.

I have sent a letter of apology to crushgrove.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[murder1]

Hey, Mr./Mrs. Fortune Lounge you are so full of -- naughty words have been deleted.

(Message edited by admin on July 24, 2003)

 

[glodge]

murder1,

I think most of here have at one time or another been involved in a account dispute & or payment drama with an online casino. It's frustration, very much so.

However I don't think reverting to name calling is going to win you any respect or popularity prizes.

If anything FL is IMO trying to fix the problem/s. I've seen other casino's turn there back & exit forums, because of name calling and bashing. Would you prefer that FL did the same here!

Man take a chill pill & relax.

 

[jpm]

I second that glodge, murder1 has to tone it down a bit, he's really over the top here.

Good for FL for taking another look at crushgrove's account and finding the problem, and for reopening his account and sending his money. I hope he'll let us know if he's happy with this outcome.

Good for you to Wim for personally reviewing each locked account, I think that is a necessary step when banning someone, since that is the ultimate punishment.

I think people don't realize just how many fraudsters there are out here who are trying to rape the casinos with fake addresses & IDs. The anonimity of the internet makes this SO easy, far easier than in land based casinos. In land based casinos, you are on camera as soon as you walk in the door and rarely if ever out of sight of one. They know who you are if you are a regular or scammer, etc and will boot you out as soon as the recognize you if you are persona-non-grata. Doesn't matter what name you're using that day, they look at your face. Something that can't be done on the internet (yet), so they have to use other methods to root out the bad guys.

This unfortunately means that some innocent people will be judged guilty sometime, but if you are polite and don't fly off the handle right away, you can most likely straighten out the discrepancy and get your account unlocked. I can speak from experience on this because it happened to me more than once.

A person living in the same state with the same name as mine charged back to Riverbelle flash casino a year or so ago. Immediately, they assumed we were the same person and locked ALL of my casino accounts that were processed by Proccyber. This was probably in the range of 15-20 accounts, some of which had $$ in them. I called the casino who had me call proccyber. I explained to them that I'd never played at a flash casino at that point and never done a chargeback. They looked at my address, d.o.b., and credit cards and decided that we were indeed 2 different people. My accounts were unlocked shortly thereafter. Had we been at a land based casino, it wouldn't have happened since we'd presumably look totally different.

So give the online casinos a little slack when they lock you out, and above all be polite or at least professional when dealing with them to try to clear it up. The good ones will even give you a bonus to make up for the inconvenience (which is something FL did for me).

 

[jetset]

Well said, jpm.

 

[jpm]

Thanks jetset. Hey, look at that, I graduated to 'Meister Member'! Woohoo!

 

[glodge]

jpm,

Congrats on achieving the next level :yes:

I'll have a :beer: for you!

 

[crushgrove]

I would just like to report that Th VP from Fortune Lounge contacted my and I requested the cash out to neteller once again, I'll tell everyone when I recieve it. I was also rewarded a bonus 20$ for the trouble but lost it at JOB
. Thanks FL for righting this problem.

 

[jpm]

LOL, thanks! Have 2, I'm buying.

:beer:

:beer:

 

[pokeraddict]

Although my opinion of this group might not be the same as Bryan's i must agree with him, it takes alot of balls for a casino to come into an open forum when you've been wrong and admit openly to it. Maybe they can start catching the mistakes now before they get to this point, bringing lockouts to the top before locking is a good start.

 

[The Dude]

murder1's account has been suspended until he promises to behave himself.

Name calling and insulting behaviour will not be tolerated in this forum.

 

[linda7]

Hi Bryan,

Hope you had a great vacation. I am sure it was much needed. Glad you and the family are back, safe and sound.

Sincerely, Linda7

 

[The Dude]

Thanks! It was surprisingly nice, but not stress-free since the kids were there.

Johnnydemp--I was hoping by now you would have forwarded me the same documents that you sent the casino. This would give me the chance to compare notes. If you don't want my assistance. That's your perogative.

Please be assured that any specific information given to me will be kept private CC#s etc.

 

[The Dude]

Johnydemp has forwarded me the stuff.

Just to keep everyone updated.

 

[murder1]

This is my 2 cents. Meister I hope that you are able to get Johnnydemp his money. The only reason I can see not paying him his winnings. Is that he used a stolen or fraudulent Credit Card. But if the Credit Card hasn't come up missing or Stolen. I feel he is entitled to his winnings. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

He has the right to his own privacy. This sending in personal documents and SS# has gone too far. If someone would make a purchase on the Internet. Like Ebay, Amazon, or whatever...they don't ask you to send in a picture id and private documents. Even though you are buying goods via Credit Card. JohnnyDemp I am standing by you 100% as long as you made the purchase from a legit source. The rest is total BS!

 

[The Dude]

Hi Murder1,

What about identity theft or falsification of IDs? This is a VERY common occurance, and this is something that most casinos are really cracking down on. I see it quite often, and I've also seen instances where vigilant casinos have thought they were being defrauded, when they weren't.

Also, the online casino business is an International one. Most of the operators are not American, and many of the players aren't as well, to include Johnnydemp. SSN# was never an issue and the IV ammendment doesn't really apply here.

Oh and by the way, Murder1 has agreed not to call anyone any more naughty names.

 

[johnnydemp]

Murder1, thanks for the support.

The crazy thing is that I made the deposit with neteller and the so called visa their experts are in conflict with was actually a bank card since I dont have a visa.

As well this is the same ID i had to provide neteller with in order to certify my neteller account.

They felt the ID was sufficient.

My hands are in the air on this one.

 

[thesmacker]

This simply seems like a case now of the casino trying to maintain that they are right sometimes and wrong sometimes by paying one of the disgruntled players and maintaining a firm stance that the other is in the wrong. They want to keep up the credibility of their security features by holding firm that johnnydemp is fraudulent even if they know he is not. This is unfortunate for johnnydemp, the more vocal of the 2 players, crushgrove being the other, and because of this he seems to be getting punished.

FL definitely has some work to do with their service. I made a cashout a while back, filled out their form asking to be paid to neteller and recieved a cheque. Other people I know have the same problem. If they cannot even perform such a simple task as paying a player to the account he requested I shudder to think of what other shortcomings they have. I now only play at 3 casinos, supervegas, the riverbelle, and golden palace. For some reason they give players very little in the way of hassles and are able to pay me when and where I want to be paid. For such a supposedly large and professional operation FL sure does cause a lot of problems with their players. Why is it that supervegas is such a huge operation with a large number of players and you dont see threads on them on a weekly basis with players bitching about something like you do with FL? Makes you wonder.