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faxback form for neteller deposit/frustration of I.D. checks...

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by funky_seagull, Feb 7, 2009.

    Feb 7, 2009
  1. funky_seagull

    funky_seagull Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed, on incapacity benefit.
    Location:
    scotland
    I just joined Alladins Gold casino. My experiences so far have been good.

    Except I phoned support to ask about sending in I.D. documents. They advised me I need to sign a faxback form. I deposited using Neteller and I don't believe it is necessary to sign a faxback form for a neteller deposit.

    However my problem is I don't have a fax machine, and there is nowhere in my location where I am going to find access to one. I live in a remote place.

    I also don't have a printer either, but could access one by going to my local library, which will be a mission. But I could forward the email to another email address. Print out the email at the library, which will cost me 10p, sign it, photo it and send this photo of the signed faxback frorm as an email attachment along with I.D. documents. However I was given the impression this wasn't good enough and it would need to be faxed... which seems a bit unfair. I am in a conundrum, there is no way I am going to find access to a fax machine, so don't know what to do.

    I hate casino I.D. checks they are so frustrating. There must be a better way to do this. I am also probably going to get hassle because the only photo I.D. I possess is an expired passport. I nearly always get hassle about this. Eventually I do pass the checks, but it can takes weeks of frustrating emails and phonecalls to get resolved. I can't afford to renew my passport, and have no desire/need to renew it, as due to disability I will not be travelling abroad anymore. I also don't drive due to disability, so I don't own a driver's license.

    I wish casinos would do all these stupid checks before a deposit is accepted, instead of after, that way if you fail or can't do them, you can save yourself a lot of hassle. Having money stuck in a casino which you can't get back cause you can't pass the I.D. checks is head doing ...:mad:

    and is it really necessary to sign a faxback form for a neteller deposit?

    Why has the world become so impossible to prove you are who you are?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  2. Feb 7, 2009
  3. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    i have the same problems as you re,driving licence and passport, so now i enquire about what documents i need and send what i have before i deposit, it saves alot of hassle in the long run, if they accept them i get it in writing then i dont get any problems, (so far,fingers crossed)
    i thought the faxback forms were only required when depositing with credit cards, and it is a pain the the ### when they make you send them back after depositing with neteller or moneybookers,
    this probably isnt a good idea and ill probably get blasted for it but it has worked for me in the past. i used the paint app to fill it in, i cant see why it should cause a problem instead of signing it with a pen and ink i use the mouse, there isnt any difference in my book but it seems some casinos dont like it,



     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Feb 7, 2009
  5. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    funky, why don't you ask them if they would be willing to accept your digital signature on the email or the form they sent you ?? It's worth a shot and PM Tom with ClubWorld to see if he can help you out too.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Feb 8, 2009
  7. slafs

    slafs Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Professional computer geek
    Location:
    ˈnɔrweɪ
    Same here, there should be no need for a faxback form when using eWallets such as NETeller? At least not when you deposit and withdraw from the same account? I can understand the need for proper identification though.

    Depositing from my NETeller account, I actually sent Aladdins the faxback form, a utility bill, a copy of my drivers license and even a blurred out VISA card just to be on the safe side. Their response: send us a copy of the backside of the drivers license! :what:

    Still waiting for the first cashout..
     
    2 people like this.
  8. Feb 8, 2009
  9. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Although I can understand online casinos need to have some form of recall if a player uses a Credit Card then does a charge back. I like others am still perplexed why casinos require proof of ID docs when a player deposits via a Web Wallet.

    I hold accounts with click2pay, Neteller, Moneybookers and also a Payspark account. All of these payment mechanisms require identity verifications. EG - Drivers Licence & Utility Bill. Most also phone your home number to confirm these details. Whilst some (depending on the deposit method used) will not allow you to deposit until your confirm a small amount deposited to either your bank account or Credit Card.

    All this IMHO makes it pretty damn hard not to be the person you claim to be.

    I don't see why this process is repeated by online casinos when a players ID has been scrutinised by a Web Wallet?

    If it's a BIG issue then send the first cash-out in a FedEx cheque (check) to the registered players address in the registers players name.

    If that's an issue then wire it to a player banks account. In Australia you require 100 points (some acceptable ID are - DL, credit card, bank account, utility bill, Medicare card, passport) to open a bank account.

    Honestly it's got to the point where I can obtaining a gun license far easier than a withdrawal from playing at a new online casino.

    Cheers
    T
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Feb 8, 2009
  11. ballysdb

    ballysdb Dormant account

    Occupation:
    automotive biller
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    In the USA we have ID cards for people who don't drive. Do they have them where you live? Maybe that would help.
    BTW...do all casinos require you to fill out these forms when withdrawing to Quicktender and the like?
     
  12. Feb 8, 2009
  13. funky_seagull

    funky_seagull Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed, on incapacity benefit.
    Location:
    scotland
    No, in the UK we aren't required to carry I.D. cards. Not yet, and hopefully not for a very long time...

    To be honest Alladdins gold is the first casino I've joined that has requested a faxback form for a neteller deposit. I've been asked for I.D. documents before, but never a faxback form for a neteller deposit, which seems a bit over the top to me...

    I will try Zebedy's and Robwins advice and send a digital signature....

    However I now have a new problem in that I don't seem to be recieving their faxback form via email. I have checked my spam filters but it isn't there. I was informed by customer support yesterday on the phone that I needed to send them a faxback form, but when I check my email it isn't there... GGRRRrrrrrr

    Will see if I can change my email address, which will be a royal pain in the arse as the email address I currently have registered is the same one registered with neteller. I am starting to wish I had never joined...

    In future I think I will follow Zebedy's advice and check what is required when I join a casino before I deposit and get it in writing and avoid this headache.

    It is a shame as I like playing at Alladins gold and it is an accredited RTG. I wanted to play in a different software than what I'm used to, as I haven't played that much on RTG before. I am glad I did, as so far I have enjoyed the playing experience, and the paytables on videopoker are excellent. But this I.D. Check and faxback stuff is really doing my head in.
     
  14. Feb 8, 2009
  15. mistye81

    mistye81 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    mother
    Location:
    Kansas
    I recently made a deposit using quicktender at the new Gold Rock casino, and was required to send back a faxback form even though I deposited using quicktender. I don't understand it, but I sent it in anyway, along with my other security documents.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Feb 8, 2009
  17. funky_seagull

    funky_seagull Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed, on incapacity benefit.
    Location:
    scotland
    I think what casinos should do is to request I.D. documents and faxback forms for credit/debit card deposits only. And they should do this at the time of deposit, not at withdrawal. Doing it at time of withdrawal seems pointless.

    From a personal experience of being the victim of card fraud. Someone stole my card details once and used them to deposit in a casino, the bastard stole all the money from my bank account, completely cleaned me out in one night, leaving me with dire bank charges and no money for 2 weeks, because it took that long to get my money back, due to me having to sign forms saying I hadn't done the transactions and the lengthy time it seemed to take my bank to finally credit the money back to my account. If the casino had done these checks at the time of deposit, the transaction would have been denied and the money would have stayed in my account and I wouldn't have suffered like I did.

    I also think that doing checks at time of withdrawal would save the casinos a lot of hassle as it would reduce the amount of chargebacks due to credit/debit card fraud.

    I think if an e-wallet is used they should just process the deposit and withdrawal instantly without the need for any security checks, as people who use e-wallets have already been subjected to these security/I.D. checks by the e-wallet they are using. Having to jump through the hoops again with the casino seems bizarre and unnecessary.

    If they had a policy of security checks for credit/debit card users at time of deposit. And no security checks for e-wallet users, it would help combat fraud more efficiently, avoid angst when it comes to checks and reduce player complaints I think. If a player wants to deposit and play instantly without waiting days for security checks they should use an e-wallet, and those that want to use cards will have to wait till the checks have been done before they deposit. Simple.

    But then I don't make the rules.... :(
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  18. Feb 8, 2009
  19. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    funky try the folowing link it takes you straight to there faxback form :thumbsup:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Feb 9, 2009
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem here is the arrogant stupidity of businesses. CUSTOMERS are not running a business (mostly) and are unlikely to have fax machines knocking about on the off-chance. Faxes are out of date nowdays, with a big problem being that they can easily be unclear at the recipients end.
    Digital documentation is now what is normally used, and the fact that the form itself is available in PDF format shows the casino recognises this.

    For players that cannot drive or travel, the casino industry needs to ensure they can be catered to. In fact, there could be an offence under the disability discrimination act being committed since it is not possible for someone who is deemed as medically unfit to drive to possess a driving licence, even for ID purposes, and no alternative is currently offered here that includes a photo, except for a few local council schemes aimed at the 18-25 age range for proving ID in shops, pubs, and clubs. Someone, though, needs to make the first case of discrimination due to disability in this respect. A complaint to the UK Gambling commission on this general principle might help, even though this is not a casino they regulate.

    Ironically, although you cannot get a real licence due to disability, a fake one is easy to come by through the networks that support the crime of "people trafficing". A recent TV program showed just how easy this was, and indeed another showed how easy it was to obtain a GENUINE Driving licence with stolen details, and the case they chose for demonstration was Mr Blunkett, who was BLIND, yet DVLA went ahead and issued the licence without anyone spotting the "bleedin' obvious".

    Technology HAS the answer though, and it is the fingerprint scanner, now available as a USB device for the PC, and will prove to be a far better way to ID someone at the other end of an online transaction. The device is being incorporated into some PCs already, and it only needs the businessess involved in online transactions to start using this technology. Anyone with fingers can participate, unlike with the current system where you need to be fairly healthy to obtain the necessary proxy ID documents needed.

    I am ALMOST in the same boat (which is why I am so damn FORCEFUL when this issue crops up). I was put on a "medical" drivers licence, which has to be reissued every three years. Had DVLA decided not to issue this, I would have found myself in the same position in not being able to prove my ID, and facing having to forfeit my winnings, or having such a struggle to get them that the industry would be forever rogue in my books.
    It was only in 2006 that I got a passport, after winning a trip to Germany. This is the ONLY photo based ID available to all, but it is VERY expensive now, and requires attendance at an interview (no wonder the OP finds this not feasable). It is, however, actually ILLEGAL to send a copy of this to ANYONE, unless it is in Black and White - so when a casino requests a COLOUR copy of a player's passport here in the UK, they are asking them to commit an offence. This is all detailed in Home Office guidance, and is under the same guidance that tells us that it is also illegal for a hotel to take custody of a passport (which some try on to hold "ransom" in the event of a dispute). The reason behind this is technology, a colour image can be used to generate a creditable fake pasport than will pass most human scrutiny.
     
    5 people like this.
  22. Feb 10, 2009
  23. ballysdb

    ballysdb Dormant account

    Occupation:
    automotive biller
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    Sloto asked me to scan back the form to them. I explained I did not have a scanner and I did not want to use the fax machine at work for obvious reasons.

    I also don't have a printer at home and cannot receive emails at work unless they are intercompany.

    They suggested I copy it word for word and send it snail mail. A little annoying but at least they are working with me.
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Feb 10, 2009
  25. Marie2473

    Marie2473 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Operator
    Location:
    Sweden
    I dont have either a prinetr, a scanner or a fax-machine. Sloto asked me if i had a digital camera and that I do.
    So they asked me to take a photo of the faxbackform and email it.
    I did and it got approved =)
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Feb 10, 2009
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is what I have been doing since my PC stopped communicating with my scanner. The scanner is not the problem, it is fine, but no matter what I do, the PC refuses to communicate with it. It is outdated, and the company that supplied the interface did it as a "one off" for Epson, and there is no continuing support.

    When internet was all dial-up, the internal modems often had fax emulation software included, making it possible to send a fax without ever having a hard copy. Oddly enough, most internet now is broadband, and it is about time casinos dragged themselves into the 21st century and offered these alternative solutions in FAQ, rather than leaving it for players to hunt them down.

    Talking of documents, Red Flush asked me for documents for my SECOND withdrawal yesterday, after I have been with them for a couple of months, and seem to be some kind of VIP. I sent them 2 emails, but JESUS they are slow - I have not heard back in 24 hours, and have not been paid.:mad:
    I don't believe they bothered with documents the first time, but I have only ever used Neteller, and previously this has been enough for most casinos.

    This ID crap is getting beyond a joke, and there needs to be a knocking together of heads in order to get a solution that works for PLAYERS, yet still offers casinos a way of ensuring the right person is operating the account, and in their own name.

    Red Flush CLAIM to only have a 12 hour pending period, but seem to make up for it by the slowness of their finance department. My patience has worn wafer thin with MGS in particular, and if it ends up that I am being "jerked around" with this documents lark when it was OK without documents for my FIRST withdrawal, when I was a NEW player, my hard drive will lose yet another MGS casino.

    I have noticed more of this on my accounts of late, a steady INCREASE in the delay between making a withdrawal and receiving payment, and these withdrawals are mostly back to Neteller, so all the delay is at the casino end.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Feb 11, 2009
  29. mistye81

    mistye81 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    mother
    Location:
    Kansas
    It sounds like Slotocash is willing to work with people in order for them to receive their withdrawals. Why can't the rest of the casinos do the same?
     
  30. Feb 11, 2009
  31. funky_seagull

    funky_seagull Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed, on incapacity benefit.
    Location:
    scotland
    Same thing happened with me, on my first withdrawal from Redflush I never got asked for I.D. but they asked me for I.D. on my second withdrawal. Both times I used Neteller.


    This whole I.D. thing is bizarre.

    Also I don't know about anyone else, but I don't like sending I.D. documents by email, fax or any other electronic media, it doesn't feel secure, you don't know who will read them, and my personal details being stored on someone's database in a country that may not have strict DPA rules as here, gives me the chills. There really has to be a better way of doing this.

    I think people who use e-wallets should be exempt from I.D. Checks....

    I also think people who use credit/debits cards, should maybe use the visa/mastercard securecode, the one where you are transferred to an external securecode site and then key in a secret password/pin that only the cardholder would know to authorize the transaction... if you don't key in the correct password the transaction is denied. Simple.

    This whole sending in of personal sensitive I.D. documents and the front and back of card etc is ridiculous. When you shop on Amazon, or any online store, you aren't asked to send in these details before they ship your goods.

    The whole casino thing is bizarre.

    If you deposit with an e-wallet like neteller, you've already passed through I.D. checks and shown you are who you are, so it seems unnecessary to do it all over again with a casino.

    It does seem to me that it is used at times as a way to stall withdrawals, and avoid paying players...
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Feb 11, 2009
  33. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    I recently received a free chip for $5 from Vegas Sun. I had downloaded the casino quite some time ago, but the $1000 freespins wouldn't play, so I just left things alone. I cleaned out ALL my mg casinos, since many were downloaded at a time that each casino had it's own folder with all the files. I met the WR, and cashed out $50...paid to my Moneybookers, no questions asked, no ID request, there after the Reverse Withdrawal period had passed. Now, if a casino can do this for a non-depositing customer, why do places where you have often deposited and lost quite a number of times make you jump through such hoops?

    They will be getting a deposit from me at some future date. Incidently, the free chip had no max cashout, but the minimum for the withdrawal was $50, so I felt I better run while the getting was good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  34. Feb 11, 2009
  35. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    i had a similar experience at another rtg casino a few weeks ago, i had always used neteller to make my deposits but i changed to moneybookers, so when i cashed out i was asked to fill in a faxback form because it was a new depositing method for me at this casino, ok i filled it in sent it back and was in the process of checking my email when i noticed one from moneybookers saying that i had already been paid, so they received my faxback form and processed my cashout and sent it to moneybookers in 2 minutes, wow what fast service :D
    the fact was they didnt need it in the first place and just made me fill it in to piss me off(thats what it felt like:mad:)

    i guess they was having a bad day they overpaid me by $500
    :lolup: i did return the extra payment btw but now i wish i had taken off $50 for time wasted in making me fill in the ######ing form:mad:
     
  36. Feb 13, 2009
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Perhaps this is policy at Red Flush, maybe a certain total amount triggers the request and we both happened to reach this on the second withdrawal. I had the documents prepared and ready, as you do nowdays, however I have to agree that sometimes it does not look like casinos are particularly adept at handling such sensitive information. The forum is littered with stories from players who have to send documents in more than once, first being told by CS YES, got it, and then later being told the documentation is nowhere to be found, and they can't have sent it. It is clear that these files ARE BEING REGULARLY MISPLACED by casino CS departments, and THIS is the risk, they are not being handled in accordance with strict procedures as would be required in a country with strong data protection laws. It is this that leads to ID fraud, documents are NEVER truly "lost", they are somewhere they should not be, and if the casino does not know where they are, they clearly cannot ensure they are not available to unauthorised persons. The danger is also present because the casinos insist on so MUCH material, such that there is more than enough present for an unscrupulous person to complete a full ID hijack with only a few additional steps, and all the key information needed is present in a full set of ID documents sent to a casino.

    One further thing, why a photo:confused: WTF does it matter whether the document has one or not, surely all that matters is the credibility of the organisation that issued it, and they always insist on this being at the level of a government body. Casinos online NEVER see your face as you enter, they see your IP address. It this insistence on a photo that causes much of the trouble, and this is because it is far more EXPENSIVE for the government to issue a photo document than a non-photo one, so naturally, most government documents are of the non-photo type. Only 2 in the UK are photo documents, and WE pay, not the government, and these are both voluntary, and even legally unavailable for some residents of the UK.

    The casinos have this attitude of "come on, EVERYBODY drives, if you claim not to, you are probably lying as a way to commit fraud by avoiding sending the licence that will prove it". Strangely enough, even the UK Government have similar views, they are "EVERYONE has a television", and they harrass ANYONE who has the nerve to claim they don't have one in the house.
     

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