Demo play not the same as real - GameArt slots

[suchfun]

The rules don't state "if the provider says it's ok then it doesn't matter"... the rules state both have to be the same maths and it is the casinos responsibility to ensure this is the case. If they are not, and I think we have proven 100% that it is not, then they are duty bound to pull the game ( the demo version) until they are satisfied it is the same.

If they do nothing, then knowingly keeping the demo live and ignoring player concerns is a serious breach of their licence.

So whilst it is not Dan at fault (he is a rep) he needs to relay to the right people that something is wrong. It won't take long to check and see it's wrong.. it's pretty damn obvious from the get go...

Relax everybody it's Random,they cant control the outcome of games,that would make it far from random

 

[duty_bound]

There is a game called Thunder Bird from GameArt.

...It's always been my understanding that demo mode must pay the same as real mode as a licensing requirement...

Hi,

Videoslots is licensed in Malta, UK and Curacao. I am not sure what the UK regulations state but doesn't matter here since you are not in the UK. So your gameplay is regulated by either Malta or Curacao.

Malta does not impose what RTP 'Play for Fun' games should have. With Curacao forget it they get anywhere near...

In any case, I don't think you played a sufficient amount of spins to draw statistically representative statistics on which to base a conclusion.

 

[Sonict]

I'm sorry to say that we didn't have to, duty_bound. To me it is was very predictable how the gameart games played in Demo mode and I have played many, many slots from providers in "Demo mode" and those all play like how it would if you were doing real money. I even tried it myself since I didn't believe it, but I very, very quickly, I hit bonuses and both times, they were way too good to be "luck" on Gameart slots in Demo mode.

 

[dunover]

I couldn't give a toss whichever licensing area you play the demos from, or like me used a VPN. The fact remains that NO reputable casino would present to ANY visitor misleading and unrealistic demos. Put it this way if the real ones played like these, and we all deposited 1k at VS tonight and played them, VS would be in receivership by tomorrow morning.

 

[goatwack]

Well it's nice to know that several thousands of spins by numerous members later, on page six of this thread, that we're all wrong and all's well with this game.

Phew!

 

[Jasminebed]

Thanks for the bump. Bitstarz never did reply to my PM or to this thread BTW.

At least Videoslots took some action by pulling the game, as well as others from that provider.

 

[shaltar]

Hi,

Videoslots is licensed in Malta, UK and Curacao. I am not sure what the UK regulations state but doesn't matter here since you are not in the UK. So your gameplay is regulated by either Malta or Curacao.

Malta does not impose what RTP 'Play for Fun' games should have. With Curacao forget it they get anywhere near...

In any case, I don't think you played a sufficient amount of spins to draw statistically representative statistics on which to base a conclusion.

Well now Gameart are no longer on Videosltos... Maybe they've seen something was wrong who knows?

 

[SlotGrinder]

I'm not convinced these games are properly tested and continually tested even in real money let alone demo play

 

[ladyhawke]

Thanks for the bump. Bitstarz never did reply to my PM or to this thread BTW.

At least Videoslots took some action by pulling the game, as well as others from that provider.

I also spoke to Bitstarz Support regarding this issue, and linking them to this thread.

Their response? Didn't give a toss and just gave the usual rubbish answer of all our games are based on the principal of 'everything is awesome randomness'.

So I have now closed my account, as there is no way GameArt in Demo plays the same as real. If it did, I would now be looking at winnings of $150k, $90k, $75k etc, and planning on buying my dream McMansion.

With matching Porsche!!!

 

[ladyhawke]

In any case, I don't think you played a sufficient amount of spins to draw statistically representative statistics on which to base a conclusion.

Sorry, but this is such crap.

Even a polar bear in a snow storm could see what is happening here with GameArt demo games.

 

[Steviedoo]

Well now Gameart are no longer on Videosltos... Maybe they've seen something was wrong who knows?

but the amatic games are still there....and i play these games a lot...the fun mode is NOT the same as playing with real money...

i just played a round on fun mode...wild sharks....5 spins in i get the bonus...and i am up to 32k. i started with 10k....do you know how many spins ive made on this game and how many spins it takes to get a bonus...average is about 200....

 

[bebo67]

While I do appreciate a speedy reply, there is no way you could have spent any time at all investigating my claim. I realize lucky streaks happen, but day after day to over 1000 - 2800x bet size in short periods of time?

Probably "up" 400,000 in about 6 hours of demo play. Hit frequency for the bonus round on an average of approximately every 25 spins?

I'm hoping a few more players will try this and see if they have similar results.

I've been playing Dragon Shrine in demo mode since last weekend. I play that game all the time in real mode. I know it's not the same game as yours, but I also didnt know that they are suppose to pay the same either. Huge discrepancy in payouts between demo and real.

 

[Casinomeister]

I've just spent a half hour or so playing the play for fun version of the Thunderbird slot at Bitstarz. Started at $500 balance - now it is $14.5k - I think I'll deposit $500, play this game, and get rich!!



I'll see why no one from Bitstarz has made any mention about this in the thread. And see if someone can yank on someone's chain at Gameart.

 

[BitStarz]

There is a game called Thunder Bird from GameArt.

I like the game, played some in real with mixed results.

But the past few days, I've been playing in fun mode at VideoSlots. I've tried both desktop and mobile platforms.

This game in demo mode hits the bonus like crazy. Rare to go fifty spins without one. Less than 10 spins is common. I've only once gone over 100 spins.

Took me less than 1/2 hour today to get my balance, starting with 500 and $10 bets to over 100K, with max bet of $40. The other day it took me nearly an hour

Only once have I lost the initial stake of $500, and I think I started with max bet that time.

I will say that I think the bonus rounds pay similar to real mode, generally being 40 to 150 x bet, with a very few under 20x, and again a very few over 400x.

It's always been my understanding that demo mode must pay the same as real mode as a licensing requirement.

The Game Payouts on the VS pages show a RTP in line with what should be expected.

I'm going to try some of GameArt's other titles in demo mode as well.

Wondering if anyone knows of other casinos running their games? I would not imagine that this is isolated to VS.

I've sent Dan a link to this thread.

Hi Jasmine,

Olle from BitStarz here, just throwing in my five cents. But before I do that, I do recommend you speak
directly to a game provider if you have any questions regarding RTP of a certain game, or if you have any complaints,
but I can defend the fact that demo mode and real money mode have the same RTP.

One thing that needs to be remembered when we're talking about slots is math, and we don't need to dig
very deep to get a pretty good fundamental understanding about RTP in general.

When we're discussing the Return to Player, we need to remember that it's based on a couple of billion game rounds,
and the longer you spin on a game, the closer you're going to reach the theoretic payout of the slot. I like the idea
of using a coin toss to explain it. We all know that it's 50-50 chance to show heads or tails (unless there's some highly skilled coin-toss guy out there),
but it's not impossible to get 4 heads in a row or 4 tails in a row. That doesn't mean the coin-toss is rigged, no, because the longer you
toss the coin, the closer you're gonna get to the 50% tails, 50% heads.

The RTP of a game in demo mode and for real money is absolutely the same, and even if you spun the slots all day,
and compared demo to real money play, I'm sad to say that it doesn't prove anything mathematically. One could
use the same argument for a/b-ing the result of playing 2 slots with the same RTP, math and stakes being the same,
and you get different results. It doesn't mean that one is rigged and pays out more than the other.

Sometimes it's important to zoom out from the individual experience and look at it from a collective, especially
when we're talking about a theory that is based on a large data. Your individual casino RTP varies, players
who play exactly the same games in the casino don't end up with the same RTP for that game, some will
get higher, some will get lower, but it evens out.

I hope that makes a little more sense.

Olle, BitStarz

 

[jonquil]

Really??? Gameart has gone because of this thread?
Amatic, Merkur and Gamomat went pretty much same time- for Aus anyway. Was bit of a mass exodus, and of course I'm right back to feeling same as end of last year when we didn't know whether we were coming or going, and kept getting- no next week is the last week... oh no end of next month.... actually in seven days, and you cant move money around anymore. arrrggghh
And I really really miss Knights Life already. : (

The discrepancy between demo and real mode may be hugely important and illegal and everything else- but I honestly just thought that that is just the way it is. Across the board. Maybe some more than other providers, but really??? no one was thinking 'err bullshit' every time someone said 'no the demo and real modes pay out the same', anyone??

 

[jonquil]

Hmmmmm, did we really need a lesson on how RTP is a global rather than an individual thing?

 

[goatwack]

God god we di'nt just get the copy and paste back of the hand answer did we? The one where we're a bunch of spazzy fantasists who have nothing better to do with our time

I dunno about you lot but I'm off to play this for another 12 billion spins. Then I can say for sure if fun mode is same as real. Unlike you posers

 

[Tirilej]

Hi Jasmine,

Olle from BitStarz here, just throwing in my five cents. But before I do that, I do recommend you speak
directly to a game provider if you have any questions regarding RTP of a certain game, or if you have any complaints,
but I can defend the fact that demo mode and real money mode have the same RTP.

One thing that needs to be remembered when we're talking about slots is math, and we don't need to dig
very deep to get a pretty good fundamental understanding about RTP in general.

When we're discussing the Return to Player, we need to remember that it's based on a couple of billion game rounds,
and the longer you spin on a game, the closer you're going to reach the theoretic payout of the slot. I like the idea
of using a coin toss to explain it. We all know that it's 50-50 chance to show heads or tails (unless there's some highly skilled coin-toss guy out there),
but it's not impossible to get 4 heads in a row or 4 tails in a row. That doesn't mean the coin-toss is rigged, no, because the longer you
toss the coin, the closer you're gonna get to the 50% tails, 50% heads.

The RTP of a game in demo mode and for real money is absolutely the same, and even if you spun the slots all day,
and compared demo to real money play, I'm sad to say that it doesn't prove anything mathematically. One could
use the same argument for a/b-ing the result of playing 2 slots with the same RTP, math and stakes being the same,
and you get different results. It doesn't mean that one is rigged and pays out more than the other.

Sometimes it's important to zoom out from the individual experience and look at it from a collective, especially
when we're talking about a theory that is based on a large data. Your individual casino RTP varies, players
who play exactly the same games in the casino don't end up with the same RTP for that game, some will
get higher, some will get lower, but it evens out.

I hope that makes a little more sense.

Olle, BitStarz

I believe it would be really wise of you to actually read this thread again and understand what the members are saying, and to take it serious.
You should also apologize for treating the membership here like they are stupid.

In this case I must say your post is very childish.

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi Jasmine,

Olle from BitStarz here, just throwing in my five cents. But before I do that, I do recommend you speak
directly to a game provider if you have any questions regarding RTP of a certain game, or if you have any complaints,
but I can defend the fact that demo mode and real money mode have the same RTP.
...

Olle, BitStarz

I think the members here are quite well versed with RTP and what's expected and what's not. I would suggest that you contact your software provider (GameArt) letting them know that the play for fun is not correct. And I would recommend killing the links for the "play for fun" mode until you receive a informed and proper answer from them. You are presenting these games - you should be contacting your supplier - not us.

 

[TheAddict]

God god we di'nt just get the copy and paste back of the hand answer did we? The one where we're a bunch of spazzy fantasists who have nothing better to do with our time

I dunno about you lot but I'm off to play this for another 12 billion spins. Then I can say for sure if fun mode is same as real. Unlike you posers

Please do mate. Post a pic after cause Id be interested to see how the balance is displayed when it hits 15 figures

 

[goatwack]

Please do mate. Post a pic after cause Id be interested to see how the balance is displayed when it hits 15 figures

Yes, that's quadrillions technically. I'll get a feel for the game and attempt it in real mode, well, because Bitstars' rep says it's fine!

When I make that 4 quadrillion withdrawal at the cashier though, things may get a bit tricky when it comes to the old source of wealth

 

[dunover]

Hi Jasmine,

Olle from BitStarz here, just throwing in my five cents. But before I do that, I do recommend you speak
directly to a game provider if you have any questions regarding RTP of a certain game, or if you have any complaints,
but I can defend the fact that demo mode and real money mode have the same RTP.

One thing that needs to be remembered when we're talking about slots is math, and we don't need to dig
very deep to get a pretty good fundamental understanding about RTP in general.

When we're discussing the Return to Player, we need to remember that it's based on a couple of billion game rounds,
and the longer you spin on a game, the closer you're going to reach the theoretic payout of the slot. I like the idea
of using a coin toss to explain it. We all know that it's 50-50 chance to show heads or tails (unless there's some highly skilled coin-toss guy out there),
but it's not impossible to get 4 heads in a row or 4 tails in a row. That doesn't mean the coin-toss is rigged, no, because the longer you
toss the coin, the closer you're gonna get to the 50% tails, 50% heads.

The RTP of a game in demo mode and for real money is absolutely the same, and even if you spun the slots all day,
and compared demo to real money play, I'm sad to say that it doesn't prove anything mathematically. One could
use the same argument for a/b-ing the result of playing 2 slots with the same RTP, math and stakes being the same,
and you get different results. It doesn't mean that one is rigged and pays out more than the other.

Sometimes it's important to zoom out from the individual experience and look at it from a collective, especially
when we're talking about a theory that is based on a large data. Your individual casino RTP varies, players
who play exactly the same games in the casino don't end up with the same RTP for that game, some will
get higher, some will get lower, but it evens out.

I hope that makes a little more sense.

Olle, BitStarz

I analyse data for thousands of new slots per year, and make video reviews of hundreds. I am telling you categorically that when opening a GameArt demo you are getting enhanced feature-rich play, EVERY TIME!

ALL of us that have tested them have said the same thing: you simply cannot lose in demo mode, so if these were the same in real-play your casino and others that offer them would be bankrupt overnight!

The demo games are in a developer mode and are not the same as the real versions.

Please listen as I'm worried you actually believe the BS you just typed.

THEY'RE AS BENT AS A BARRYMORE POOL PARTY!

 

[goatwack]

I analyse data for thousands of new slots per year, and make video reviews of hundreds. I am telling you categorically that when opening a GameArt demo you are getting enhanced feature-rich play, EVERY TIME!

ALL of us that have tested them have said the same thing: you simply cannot lose in demo mode, so if these were the same in real-play your casino and others that offer them would be bankrupt overnight!

The demo games are in a developer mode and are not the same as the real versions.

Please listen as I'm worried you actually believe the BS you just typed.

THEY'RE AS BENT AS A BARRYMORE POOL PARTY!

 

[Steviedoo]

If only there were a way to let us play in fun mode for real money for 5 minutes.... if what he says is true they have nothing to worry about.

 

[theapple]

Hi Jasmine,
We all know that it's 50-50 chance to show heads or tails (unless there's some highly skilled coin-toss guy out there),
but it's not impossible to get 4 heads in a row or 4 tails in a row. That doesn't mean the coin-toss is rigged, no, because the longer you
toss the coin, the closer you're gonna get to the 50% tails, 50% heads.



I hope that makes a little more sense.

Olle, BitStarz

It would if it werent for everyone in this thread tossing head 9/10 times. And more we play closer to 90% head toss we are.

I honestly dont believe you played their demo versions on your site, and most definitely havent checked this thread because if anything, its nowhere 50%-50%. As you said rtp is individual and can very greatly. Thats the thing, here it doesnt vary at all, everyone is winning. Not sure how can you say thats exactly same how normal game plays?