Licensing Curaçao licensees may have an easy time of it after all

[maxd]

Scouting around for interesting developments I ran across

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

at igamingbusiness.com (iGB). Aside from announcing the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

for new and transitioning licencees there were a few juicy bits that shine some light on what the Curaçao authorities are actually doing regarding licencees, new and old:

The portal has two key functions. The first is processing new applications under the current legislation with the GCB [Gaming Control Board]. The second is the registration of all sublicensees that wish to continue operating uninterrupted when the LOK [The National Ordinance For Games Of Chance] is enacted and the new Curaçao Gaming Authority (CGA) is established.

The primary requirement for registrants is that they be a registered Curaçao company which means they must have a registered Curaçao address and "at least one named director in the country". So what about the other requirements we've heard mentioned, a physical office and staff in Curaçao, etc?

The government process will process all new applicants under existing legislation, in advance of it enacting LOK. The minister of finance and his team has confirmed to iGB that, at this point, there is no requirement for physical offices or local employees.

Aside from submitting the relevant documentation, this is the only significant action that needs to be taken by sublicensees or new operators that are applying for a licence on the portal.

Clearly Curaçao doesn't want to upset their existing casino business too much -- or at all -- in spite of the sabre-rattling that we've seen reported elsewhere. iGB states as much in the article's conclusion:

Operators that want to continue operating as a master licensee or sublicensee under the LOK must register on the portal before the government enact LOK. At that point, the CGA will become the regulator.

Day-to-day operations under all active master licences can continue as normal. However, it is imperative that the new regulator has a record of all current licence holders in the country.

As the days go by it begins to seem as if the real purpose of this license-changing exercise is to shuffle some government departments around, (eventually) take control of licensing, and finally get all Curaçao licensees on the books. If that is the case then the effects that trickle down to the players could be very modest indeed.

 

[dunover]

Was it ever going to be any different......

 

[Webzcas]

So to surmise, business as usual nothing to see here!?

Interesting to see how the Dutch government will view this, there is certainly going to be more twists and turns.

But in the meantime those operators who were looking forward to visiting Anjouan and the subsequent expense claims it would generate, will have to put those plans on ice for the time being!

 

[goatwack]

I thought Curacao had finally got its house in order, and was set to make sweeping legislative changes, whose reverberations would be felt across the iGaming space for years to come.

Literally shaking with anger right now

 

[dunover]

The turd wasn't polished after all. Nay, it wasn't even rolled in glitter. It was left in the middle of the pavement to be trodden in and slowly consumed by blowflies.

 

[Smithyy]

I'm going to be the contrarian here, I think. It's late here now so I have any desire BUT to go digging into Curacao local news sites - but it's worth noting that LOK (the new gambling regulation act that REMAINS to be passed) has already seen several changes. Unfortunately, the decisions from the Finance Minister also appear to hold little weight; they have already backtracked on the "no crypto", for example, although one of his major driving forces behind this whole campaign was all new licenses MUST "have, and maintain a physical business in Curacao with at least one WORKING (not just registered on paper) worker, with the view of directly bringing revenue to the Curacao people.

On a side note, the article that Max's link pulls a lot of is info from is also July 2023 - a date before many of the announced changes were brought in. As expected, it's currently a minefield, and what actually comes in - remains to be seen.

FWIW, the most up-to-date and reliable source of information is from a Curacao news organisation itself - You can find the "best"in , in my opinion,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. For example, on their website, the most recent entry is a statement from the Finance Minister stating - pretty much the opposite.

Sounds like we need to get the Finance Minister in for a Q&A! Although @maxd and I expected this would all be the case until laws are passed. And for me, at least, the news about ML holders receiving a year extension is nothing new - but AFAIK, the latest information is that ANY sublicensee who wants to operate from (I forget the exact date next year) MUST register themselves independently with the new Curacao regulator.

It's just looking more likely that things will be 'delayed' - perhaps they are trying to even get a scope of how many licensees they have! (8,000, according to the aforementioned Curacao news site.)

Of course, it could be that this is simply a case of "ten years later, same events" - for those who were unaware, the last Curacao Government official who brought in serious plans to overhaful the system, was, erm, executed on the beach...

Full of families hanging out to swim, drink and relax on a tropical Sunday afternoon. Suddenly, nine bullets penetrate the body of the most famous politician of the Netherlands Antilles: Helmin Wiels. Just like the contents of his Heineken bottle, his blood also flows into the sand.

The subsequent "investigation" (cover ups) are well-detailed here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[dunover]

I'm going to be the contrarian here, I think. It's late here now so I have any desire BUT to go digging into Curacao local news sites - but it's worth noting that LOK (the new gambling regulation act that REMAINS to be passed) has already seen several changes. Unfortunately, the decisions from the Finance Minister also appear to hold little weight; they have already backtracked on the "no crypto", for example, although one of his major driving forces behind this whole campaign was all new licenses MUST "have, and maintain a physical business in Curacao with at least one WORKING (not just registered on paper) worker, with the view of directly bringing revenue to the Curacao people.

On a side note, the article that Max's link pulls a lot of is info from is also July 2023 - a date before many of the announced changes were brought in. As expected, it's currently a minefield, and what actually comes in - remains to be seen.

FWIW, the most up-to-date and reliable source of information is from a Curacao news organisation itself - You can find the "best"in , in my opinion,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. For example, on their website, the most recent entry is a statement from the Finance Minister stating - pretty much the opposite.

Sounds like we need to get the Finance Minister in for a Q&A! Although @maxd and I expected this would all be the case until laws are passed. And for me, at least, the news about ML holders receiving a year extension is nothing new - but AFAIK, the latest information is that ANY sublicensee who wants to operate from (I forget the exact date next year) MUST register themselves independently with the new Curacao regulator.

It's just looking more likely that things will be 'delayed' - perhaps they are trying to even get a scope of how many licensees they have! (8,000, according to the aforementioned Curacao news site.)

Of course, it could be that this is simply a case of "ten years later, same events" - for those who were unaware, the last Curacao Government official who brought in serious plans to overhaful the system, was, erm, executed on the beach...



The subsequent "investigation" (cover ups) are well-detailed here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Doesn't that just give you overwhelming confidence in the corrupt banana republic. It seems the bribery administration & distribution position Finance Minister post has lesser life expectancy than a drummer in Spinal Tap.

 

[Smithyy]

Doesn't that just give you overwhelming confidence in the corrupt banana republic. It seems the bribery administration & distribution position Finance Minister post has lesser life expectancy than a drummer in Spinal Tap.

Bribery administration? You seem to be getting confused with the Hunter Biden administration - easy mistake to mistake.

Curacao, on the other hand would never commit such egregious acts.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

These clear arguments come from an alert judge in Sint Maarten in an interim judgment dated January 11, 2022, when the Italian mafia boss Francesco Corallo in Sint Maarten again saw the opportunity to bribe a minister to issue a 'master license' in order to get himself a 'master license'. sublicense' to allow sharing under other types of misleading terms. Here that Playmaster vs Atlantis World Group interim judgment.

 

[slot_zombie]

Literally shaking with anger right now

Ye have no ? in this :machinegunner: Goatie, relax mate. The fog around the nebulous offshore gaming regulations will clear before we know it. Blue skies ahead.

You may yet get your wish, and all of us, including the "streamers", will be reduced to clustering around the tuppenny pushers in Coral Island, pockets full of shrapnel, scrapping over the packet of Parma Violets that's getting within a £10 "investment" of dropping over the precipice - all the while dodging plain clothes UKGC agents clutching SOW forms.

 

[goatwack]

Ye have no ? in this :machinegunner: Goatie, relax mate. The fog around the nebulous offshore gaming regulations will clear before we know it. Blue skies ahead.

You may yet get your wish, and all of us, including the "streamers", will be reduced to clustering around the tuppenny pushers in Coral Island, pockets full of shrapnel, scrapping over the packet of Parma Violets that's getting within a £10 "investment" of dropping over the precipice - all the while dodging plain clothes UKGC agents clutching SOW forms.

Trust me, I'd like nothing more than for the UKGC to pull its finger out and actively make slotting/ gambling better for UK punters, as opposed to their euthanizing the pastime.

I'd love a return to when slotting was actually great too. After all, the UKGC did appear to make subtle, pro-player changes here and there.....up until they didn't, and have led players to seek their kicks elsewhere (as we knew would happen).

I'm as impassioned about the state we find ourselves in, as any other player gaslit by their poor decisions, and would welcome the hobby to become viable again. Nor do I want or like players getting shafted when defecting to other jurisdictions, when they ought to be able to gamble here without a hitch.

So punters lining up in stealth mode whilst evading meddling SoW-wielding jobsworths is about the furthest thing one could call my wish, believe it or not

 

[Mattue]

All I know is the day 3Dice requires me to take a selfie holding my passport in my left hand, drivers license in my right, while standing on one leg, then I'm done for good.

 

[Smithyy]

All I know is the day 3Dice requires me to take a selfie holding my passport in my left hand, drivers license in my right, while standing on one leg, then I'm done for good.

Lol, we joke, but this is actually one of (in my opinion) the worst case scenarios; either Curacao DOES get its act together, and players are forced away to non-licensed casinos where rogue operators will operate with impunity - or Curacao does a "clean up", and the reputable sites currently operating there are brought up to higher KYC standards - while smaller, rogue operators continue to accept players (just this time, perhaps, they'll be shut down quicker) - leading to players losing more money to scam operations.

 

[Smithyy]

Scouting around for interesting developments I ran across

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

at igamingbusiness.com (iGB). Aside from announcing the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

for new and transitioning licencees there were a few juicy bits that shine some light on what the Curaçao authorities are actually doing regarding licencees, new and old:



The primary requirement for registrants is that they be a registered Curaçao company which means they must have a registered Curaçao address and "at least one named director in the country". So what about the other requirements we've heard mentioned, a physical office and staff in Curaçao, etc?



Clearly Curaçao doesn't want to upset their existing casino business too much -- or at all -- in spite of the sabre-rattling that we've seen reported elsewhere. iGB states as much in the article's conclusion:


As the days go by it begins to seem as if the real purpose of this license-changing exercise is to shuffle some government departments around, (eventually) take control of licensing, and finally get all Curaçao licensees on the books. If that is the case then the effects that trickle down to the players could be very modest indeed.

To my knowledge, the new and updated rules for companies wanting a Curacao license weren't readily available before (a few days ago?) - I found them just now. They are

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

Note: As many have pointed out, how these new rules look on paper, and how they're enforced (if things ever do change) remains to be seen. However, there do appear to be some notable changes in the new license conditions, mainly:

1. The licensee must hold a segregated account for player deposits and winnings.

2. The licensee must have a process to verify the identity of players who are using its services. (no further information provided.)

3. Players must be given the opportunity for self-exclusion and to indicate the limits of their gambling behavior in terms of (deposit limits, etc.)

4. Virtual currencies used by the licensee must be tradeable on internationally licensed virtual currency exchanges - so it looks like crypto is good to go.

Aside from that, however, the rules are incredibly bland; for example, it doesn't even state any remote gambling specifications for machines - just that they need to be "tested for information security by an independent qualified entity approved by the GCB."

However, it does state that regarldess of whether an online gambling business will remain under a Master License or not, they are required to register as a sub-license.

Yes. All registrants and applicants must have an account on this portal. The account is unique to every operator and cannot be shared with other applications or registrations.

It seems as though they will begin accepting registrations on the 15th November - so I imagine that's when we'll need to wait until to see what's really going to change.

 

[satchnz]

Trust me, I'd like nothing more than for the UKGC to pull its finger out and actively make slotting/ gambling better for UK punters, as opposed to their euthanizing the pastime.

Yes but we all know this is but a pipe dream, right?

I'd love a return to when slotting was actually great too. After all, the UKGC did appear to make subtle, pro-player changes here and there.....up until they didn't, and have led players to seek their kicks elsewhere (as we knew would happen).

This is exactly why a bunch of us have ventured off shore. Those who don’t do their homework first are opening themselves to get burnt - as with anything in life. But it’s not a treacherous out there as some might think.

 

[dunover]

Cup-o-cocoa is to gambling as to what Chinese electronics are to online consumers - they may look the same, place bogus standards numbers and CE marks and may even fulfil their role for a period but you would never want to leave them plugged in overnight or while away.

 

[Webzcas]

Not to thread jack, but a lot of the world's biggest and most well known companies choose to manufacture their products in China, due to labour costs and the infrastructure that they have in place.

Apple for one. Just saying

 

[maxd]

Cup-o-cocoa is to gambling as to what Chinese electronics are to online consumers ...

Your analogy is more accurate than you may realize. SOME Chinese-made electronics are bin fodder, absolutely true, but some -- as Webzcas points out -- are quite excellent. Same story with Curaçao licensees: many are utter crap, but a fair few are among the best casinos out there run by some truly dedicated and conscientious people.

To the man with a big hammer there is a tendency for everything to look like a nail.

On a side note I should mention that I've ordered many items through Aliexpress -- an online retail service based in China made up of small businesses in China and other locations, such as Singapore -- and have had exceptionally good results, albeit true that I've only ordered one electronics item (which has been fine). And all at prices between 1/4 and 1/2 what I would have to pay through "regular" channels like Amazon and Ebay. So IMO one would be wise to check the propensity to scoff at "nasty foreign crap" as a matter of course.

 

[dunover]

Not to thread jack, but a lot of the world's biggest and most well known companies choose to manufacture their products in China, due to labour costs and the infrastructure that they have in place.

Apple for one. Just saying

Of what relevance is that? You refer to western companies using Chinese labour to manufacture their products to their standards. I was clearly referring to imitations, with fake kitemark numbers, CE stickers etc.

@maxd Again, I stated that some may indeed fulfil their function OK but the bottom line is that they are mostly cheap uncertified crap and it's pot luck as to whether they will a) work and b) not be dangerous. That was my (IMO quite appropriate) analogy. Maybe call this category 365 or 8048/JAZ

Take e-scooter chargers where numerous house fires and deaths have been recorded because the current and regulator settings are wrong and have as a result turned batteries into incendiary devices. Call this the Chinese electronics equivalent of 1668/JAZ.

 

[Webzcas]

You were referring to the companies that clone goods then? However, there are many decent Chinese owned manufacturers based in China too.

I vape, all the vaping products I use are Chinese companies, eLeaf and Innokin to name two.

So yes, my point is very relevant.

 

[maxd]

@dunover it's not "pot luck" because the good ones have been good for years -- decades in some cases -- so their reputation is well known to anyone that cares to look. Frankly I've had some pretty shite service and products here in Jolly Old Britain but you don't hear me saying "everything British is shit" do you? Obviously there is an issue of scale here but the point remains.

And it's not "some may indeed fulfil their function OK". No, absolutely not the case. I've said it before and there's copious proof to show that it's much more like "some perform their function admirably and totally reliably". Recognize it or don't, obviously your choice, but you're ignoring real evidence for the sake of your preconceived notions. I'm sorry to say that your endless campaign of hostility and belittlement against Curaçao as a whole is often simply unjustified.

When you relentlessly tar everything Curaçao with the same sh*tty brush it becomes more about you than it is about them. Serious criticism of Curaçao is perfectly justified to an extent but when you slag them all off out of hand and as a matter of course you have to accept that there is going to be a little, perfectly justified, push-back.

- Max

 

[dunover]

@dunover it's not "pot luck" because the good ones have been good for years -- decades in some cases -- so their reputation is well known to anyone that cares to look. Frankly I've had some pretty shite service and products here in Jolly Old Britain but you don't hear me saying "everything British is shit" do you? Obviously there is an issue of scale here but the point remains.

And it's not "some may indeed fulfil their function OK". No, absolutely not the case. I've said it before and there's copious proof to show that it's much more like "some perform their function admirably and totally reliably". Recognize it or don't, obviously your choice, but you're ignoring real evidence for the sake of your preconceived notions. I'm sorry to say that your endless campaign of hostility and belittlement against Curaçao as a whole is often simply unjustified.

When you relentlessly tar everything Curaçao with the same sh*tty brush it becomes more about you than it is about them. Serious criticism of Curaçao is perfectly justified to an extent but when you slag them all off out of hand and as a matter of course you have to accept that there is going to be a little, perfectly justified, push-back.

- Max

Maybe. The feted Videoslots even had Cure-a-cow licence when I first played there, so yes I accept there are good actors as well as bad ones under their umbrella.

But the bottom line is, my fundamental observation, is that a jurisdiction with little or no proper gambling infrastructure and one that doesn't actually coerce its licensees into ethical behaviour with enforceable and often punitive sanctions and relies upon voluntary good conduct is flawed, fraught with potential issues. And so it has proved to be.

I understand CM may be transitioning to a more 'amenable' opinion of their jurisdiction for pragmatic and commercial reasons due to the way the industry has shifted in recent years but my attitude will remain one of doubt and suspicion.

You know I love my analogies so imagine a car you used breaking down continually and being unreliable. The garage takes it in and tells you it has carried out a major overhaul. Next week you are due to pack the luggage and family into it, embarking on a long trip - how confident do you feel about driving it?

 

[Webzcas]

I understand CM may be transitioning to a more 'amenable' opinion of their jurisdiction for pragmatic and commercial reasons due to the way the industry has shifted in recent years but my attitude will remain one of doubt and suspicion.

What, seriously wtf?

So by stating that there happen to be SOME upstanding operators that are 'licensed' in Curacao means Casinomeister the site is shifting its stance for commercial reasons, to support and promote properties there?

Give me a break Dunover.

So are you saying that the Jackpot Capital Group of casinos are rogue warriors? Or how about the Legend group of casinos which also operate under a master licence there?

We all know that the vast majority of online casinos and gambling sites operating under a Curacao licence are rogue as they come. But don't start painting every operator with the same brush.

How about UKGC operators? After all the UKGC is supposedly regarded as an upstanding licensing jurisdiction. 888.com anyone?

 

[dunover]

What, seriously wtf?

So by stating that there happen to be SOME upstanding operators that are 'licensed' in Curacao means Casinomeister the site is shifting its stance for commercial reasons, to support and promote properties there?

Give me a break Dunover.

So are you saying that the Jackpot Capital Group of casinos are rogue warriors? Or how about the Legend group of casinos which also operate under a master licence there?

We all know that the vast majority of online casinos and gambling sites operating under a Curacao licence are rogue as they come. But don't start painting every operator with the same brush.

How about UKGC operators? After all the UKGC is supposedly regarded as an upstanding licensing jurisdiction. 888.com anyone?

So you picked a couple of good actors. Hardly representative. Perhaps I should paste my list of scammers under it that I compiled over the years, outnumbering them 10-1. Ask @maxd, I sent him the document a while ago.

For an entity as badly damaged as Cure-a-cow you cannot begin to take them seriously without the 3 R's - not Liebore's 3 R's but Reform, Restitution and Recognition.

Please don't try and twist my meaning here - I clearly said in the post you quoted there were GOOD actors there, the issue is that they are not compelled to be good and that's where all the issues and scams were born.

 

[goatwack]

I do believe it to be an issue of scale when looking at the greater picture - we know that many reputable brands are dependent on Chinese components. I'm sure these are held to a higher standard when representing that company.

Yet for every one of those there'll be a slew of unchecked, counterfeit, 'rogue' and outright dangerous products and components brought onto the market, with no recourse of any kind. And so it falls to the customer to make that choice, like with anything.

I don't think anyone believes that there aren't good Chinese products in amongst that, but from sheer quantity of goods available, there are far fewer of those than 'somewhat suspect' ones, and so yes, "Made in China" is and always has been treated with a hint of suspicion.

So then we have Curacao, a jurisdiction relentlessly mocked when things were 'rosier' in Europe and elsewhere and pilloried for years, falling into that same bracket.

We also see Curacao become the New World of online slotting whilst retaining a lot of their Old World habits - changes we may see at some point, but seemingly not likely, as the can gets kicked further down the road, and players get lost in among the unscrupulous operators.

I'll respect the casinos that do operate with integrity down there, and we've seen that some do. Yet that doesn't negate the fact that Curacao is anything but safe to the vast majority of players, other than relying on luck, goodwill and hearsay

 

[The Dude]

I step out for a few minutes to bake a cake, and look what happens, staff members having a barroom brawl .

Maybe. The feted Videoslots even had Cure-a-cow licence when I first played there, so yes I accept there are good actors as well as bad ones under their umbrella.

They also had forum shills that got shut down right away and I verbally reprimanded the casino rep back then at the Meister meeting in 2010 for doing such a thing. LOL

I understand CM may be transitioning to a more 'amenable' opinion of their jurisdiction for pragmatic and commercial reasons due to the way the industry has shifted in recent years but my attitude will remain one of doubt and suspicion.

No transition here at all. The thing is - licensing is interesting for us and the community benefits from these discussions - the "new and improved" Curacao licensing is something worth talking about.

Please bear in mind, I have taken all licensing with a grain of salt since the majority of licensing entities have not a clue on what they are doing when it comes to player/customer relations. Please go back in time and you will see that I have criticisms on all these jurisdictions - to include Kahnawake.

Kahnawake is once of the best run, hands on, licensing jurisdictions out there. And we have given them a ton of praise over the past ten years or so. But there was a time when Kahnawake was one of the worst jurisdictions ever. Just check out the Casinomeister awards in the early 2000s

I am not comparing Curacao and Kahnawake at all - don't get me wrong. Curacao will NEVER be as stellar as Kahnawake, but this is a dynamic industry - it always has been. And I think we are doing the community a massive service on discussing these things since us "happy few" have bucket loads of experince when it comes to dealing with understanding this playing field of online casinos.