Crystal Palace Probation?

Should the Crystal Palace Group be placed on Probation?

  • Yes, they have turned over a new leaf and are okay.

    Votes: 8 15.4%
  • No, I believe they do not deserve it.

    Votes: 36 69.2%
  • I don't care what you do or say. It's the FREE MONEY that I want.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I abstain.

    Votes: 8 15.4%

  • Total voters
    52

LRDell

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Location
East Coast, USA
Never had a problem

I have always been one of the few supporters of CP on this forum. I understand that several people have had issues with CP and with Warren Cloud specifically, but Bryan asked for input from all who have had experiences with them.

I have made several nice cashouts (most recently for $4000) and never had a problem other than the waiting period. I have handled some small customer service issues with Oliver, and he has always been a gentleman and very helpful.

If Bryan feels that that there is evidence of a change in policies on Warren Clouds end, I believe probation might be a workable solution. The very concept of probation is to be under warning. Bryan could establish some very tight guidelines under which they immediately become rogue again if they cross the line.

And it might just have to cost WC a lot of $$$$ to clear up these old legitimate claims, and maybe probation wouldn't become effective until they are resolved.
 

Tester

Quit Gambling
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Location
Israel
I am owed

804. Have PM you the details.
Please let me know if you need more details or whatever.
 

rod729

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Vegas Strip

After a year of run-around, Warren told me flat out that I would not be paid. Only after I hired a lawyer, did I and a group of other cheated people see any of our money. Let him pay our lawyer's fee of 10% if he really wants to make amends and explain to us his actions. There are plenty of sites that will give you a fair game. Save taking a chance on the gambling, not on the cash-out.
Rod729
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
rod729 said:
After a year of run-around, Warren told me flat out that I would not be paid. Only after I hired a lawyer, did I and a group of other cheated people see any of our money. Let him pay our lawyer's fee of 10% if he really wants to make amends and explain to us his actions. There are plenty of sites that will give you a fair game. Save taking a chance on the gambling, not on the cash-out.
Rod729
You hired a lawyer?
Did your group get all your monies less the attorneys fee?
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
I'm not sure if this is the same group, but if you search Casinomeister News there was a report not long ago of players getting their money by setting a lawyer onto Cloud - it gave the lawyer's address and I believe he was prepared to work on a contingency basis.
 

kpthomas

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
He's gotta pay up first

The Crystal Palace casinos, plus Cleopatra's and America's online, owe me thousands of dollars. It is not enough for him to say he has turned over a new leaf.

Moreover, labeling someone as a "bonus abuser" when that person has followed all the T&C is unacceptable.

I say NO WAY until he pays off all the people he has screwed.
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
rod729 said:
Only after I hired a lawyer, did I and a group of other cheated people see any of our money.
That must have been a hell of a big cashout for a lawyer to accept just 10% to take the case. Why did you not first go down the "traditional", cheaper complaints route (mediator / Montana, etc etc)? This deserved more attention than it got. It seems everybody, including me, had forgotten all about it - which should never have happened, and would NOT have happened if it had been more in the public eye.

So Cloud casinos settle all claims as long as the claimant can afford to hire a lawyer to go after him on the basis of a five / six figure cashout? And this is "one of the most successful RTG operators", and the single BIGGEST one, with TWENTY FIVE casinos?? And this is the operator who aspires to probation from "rogue" status?? On what basis? "We pay if you can afford to pay a lawyer to collect"??

The OC industry continues to disgust me on a daily basis.

I would love to know why this law suit was kept so low-key. At the very least it should have been posted prominently on all the boards after the resolution was achieved, and I've no idea why the involved parties didn't start with a more traditional form of affiliate mediation, the failure and subsequent publishing of the details of which would have been an excellent red flag to any uninformed players still patronising the Cloud operations.
 

Freudian

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Location
europe
As long as a casino plays fair with their customers I have no problem with them being removed from the rogue section. After all the goal should be to have as many good operators as possible. If someone realized it's better business to behave well, I don't think past sins should be held against them forever. Actions speak louder than words.

Personally I feel there are enough good casinos so I won't go near any of his casinos. Not even if he had an immaculate conception and was sainted by the Vatican. But that is just how I am.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
jpm said:
BUMP

So what do you think Bryan?
I'm still a bit undecided on what route to take here. I still have some catching up to do, and a number of things to consider.

I'm a bit disappointed in the voting turnout in this thread - only 45 votes so far and this forum gets quite a bit of traffic. But this may go to show that there are a lot of newbies out there who are not privy to many of the incidents that surround the Warren Cloud casinos - and this whole thing is a non-issue.

There have only been a handful of unresolved complaints that are being addressed at the moment - as soon as I get caught up, I'll see which route to take on this.
 

Simmo!

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
casinomeister said:
I'm a bit disappointed in the voting turnout in this thread - only 45 votes so far and this forum gets quite a bit of traffic. But this may go to show that there are a lot of newbies out there who are not privy to many of the incidents that surround the Warren Cloud casinos - and this whole thing is a non-issue.
Actually, i have an opinion Bryan but do not feel qualified to vote. Due to plenty of issues/advice/gripes raised on these boards previously, i have simply avoided all RTG casinos so i can't say i have direct experience of CP etc being bad/good or otherwise - thus it would be unfair to sway the vote on reputation alone.

Blackjack21 said:
Do a search for CP and see how many of the problems do not involve bonuses, I would wager not too many.
Blackjack21 has the most relevant point on this thread IMHO. If BJ21 is correct, then I'd have some sympathy with WC. In my mind, anyone who is moaning and griping about "freebies" should have more sense. Its like getting a call from a Timeshare company to say you'd won a holiday then moaning they were trying to sell you something all along! No such thing as a free lunch and bonuses are the starter you have to eat 35 times over before you move onto the main course. Bonuses are for the gullible IMHO. Period.

Complaints about withdrawals against legitimate deposits however are a different kettle of fish. If this has been a problem with WC casinos in the past then i'd not be impressed.

So in essence Bryan, if was my decision, i'd look at it this way. If past problems are "bonus" related then I'd give him one final chance by removing CP from all lists (probation/rogue AND recommended) letting players decide for themselves. If they are taking liberties with legit players then the goose is well-and-truly cooked. I don't believe a leaopard changes its spots. It may improve and try a bit harder but one Pirate(C21) comes along and its back to Plan A!
 
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jpm

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
Thanks Bryan. What about my idea of having him come here to explain his rogue behavior?
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
jpm said:
Thanks Bryan. What about my idea of having him come here to explain his rogue behavior?
That's something that he has decided not to do. The problem is that there are a few disgruntled players that hate Crystal Palace and will use the forum as a way to spew their anger. True, there are the disgruntled few that can control their emotions, but there are a number of players who can become rather verbally abusive. This is one of the reasons why I've been a bit of a hard ass when it comes to players jumping in stating a casinos sucks or whatever. You aren't going to get very far with that.
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
PABnonaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Location
Haverhill
I played at Cleopatra's two months ago. Claimed a bonus, met the WR, but received only the deposit back ... minus $100 or so in winnings. Emails to support were completely ignored.

I don't know when they turned over this new leaf, but it must be within the past 2 months. I'd like to see them adhering to the T+C of their bonuses for a lot longer than that before taking them off the rogue list.
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
The problem is that there are a few disgruntled players that hate Crystal Palace and will use the forum as a way to spew their anger.
With all due respect, Casinomeister, it does appear to be quite a few more disgruntled players than you many think.
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
PABnonaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Location
Haverhill
Simmo! said:
Bonuses are for the gullible IMHO. Period.
My 5K+ in bonus aided winnings doesn't agree with you. :D

kpthomas said:
Moreover, labeling someone as a "bonus abuser" when that person has followed all the T&C is unacceptable.
But I'll agree with this.

Getting the increased traffic from offering a nice bonus, but not having to pay off some of the advantage players it inherently brings seems kind of crap-o-riffic. Did Warren Clouds group return the deposits of the advantage players who fell on the wrong side of SD and lost their initial deposits?
 

Stanford

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
USA
casinomeister said:
That's something that he has decided not to do.
That makes it hard to vote. So I guess you can pass on our concern.

If WC can say that his casino will exemplify the best in behavior then yes. If not, then no. Since we can't talk to him, if he will commit to the eCOGRA standards then fine. If not, which would he object to?

There are lots who have been awarded the seal. That shouldn't be to big a pill to swallow.

Thanks for asking for our input. Have you ever thought about doing that on the other side? Allowing a player to nominate a casino for the warning list.

Stanford
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Participating in eCOGRA is a sort of tandem affair, Stanford - it involves not only the casino, but the software provider as well, because there are many shared operational interactions where the eGAPs apply. As far as I know RTG have not committed to the eCOGRA initiative and this would make it difficult if not impossible for one of their licensees like the Cloud group to join. More positively, the software providers involvement side is looking promising, I gather - several negotiations are apparently well advanced.
 

jinnia

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
Bite, ME
I've learned to not come right out and say this casino or that one is a crook, a liar, a thief, whatever word comes to mind, even though it may be fitting.

I'll start my first post with, 'my experience with , so and so casino, has left me with the opinion of them being..... then state my experience/problem.

As time goes on and the- so and so casino -keeps showing what I've stated about them is true, then I WILL use the fitting word in the rest of what I say about the issue/casino.
 

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