Crystal Palace Probation?

[The Dude]

As most of you know, I have had my dealings with Warren Cloud in the past, (the operator of Crystal Palace, etc.), and these "dealings" have been mostly abrasive communications concerning player disputes and what-not. But over the past several months - we have been a bit more cordial, speaking directly over the phone, and WC has been taking care of any complaint that I have forwarded to him expediently and fairly.

One thing to note: many of the complaints that have been lodged against the WC casinos in the past have been fraudulent. Recently (last week) I had "two" different players lodge a complaint against CP (the player is a member of this forum BTW), and it was traced to one account - one person - and this is bullshit - but this is beside the point.

The point is is that Warren has requested to have his casinos removed from the rogue section and placed on probation. He feels that he has turned over a new leaf, and he feels that he has earned recognition for paying his players. Probation means that if the casino keeps its act together for six months - they are removed from the rogue section. If they ef up - they are thrown back in.

Well, why am I considering this? Mainly in the attempt to be fair - this is my main concern. If an operator requests that I should review his situation - then I will. Most of the time I will make the decision on my own - but this situation is different since so many people have been involved or affected.

Operator's reasons for probation:
All legitimate winnings are being paid. The casino has the right to deny bonuses to "advantage" players. But if a player is deemed a bonus abuser they are paid their winnings + deposits and allowed back in without a bonus.

Fraudulent players are given their deposits back but forfeit their winnings.

The operator has claimed to have turned over a new leaf.

My reason for consideration:
There have been hardly any complaints for the past several months - publicly or privately through the Pitch a Bitch. I'm trying to be as objective as possible, and in my honest opinion - when casinos have been making efforts in keeping their shit together - I need to look at this at this objectively.

But like I implied before, this is a complex matter that I think should be addressed by anyone who feels affected.

What I want from members of the Casinomeister's forum:
I want your input. Some of you are players at WC casinos, and have no problem with them. On the other hand, some of you have had your share of difficulties with these casinos. Now is the time to be heard. What I don't want are stupid rants and emotional outbursts. What I do want are facts and thoughtful opinions.

If anyone here has a complaint (new or old) on the following casinos, I have set up a special "Pitch a Bitch" section to address these. If you had an old issue that you felt was handled unfairly, please feel free to fill out the form as well.

Claims for the following casinos will be considered and reviewed:
Old URL
Crystal Palace
High Rollers Lounge
My Online Casino
Vegas Riches
Casino Zeal
Bigbonus-casino.biz
Freemoney-casino.biz
Gaming-money.biz
July-casino.biz
Lets-play-today.biz
My-casino-offer.biz
Partyime-casino.biz
Raining-money.biz
Summertime-casino.biz
Uno-casino.biz
Unreal-casino.biz

Since July 2003
Cleopatras Casino
Americas Online Casino
ClubMardiGras
Club Regal

Since July 2004
Lucky Coin
Luck Coin
Lucky Pyramid
Golden Nile
American Grand
Royal Circus
American Circus
Past associations:
Rated Player Casino

I will be absent from my place of duty from late tomorrow until the 5th of September. I will review everything submitted and make a decision on what course to take after then.

A final note: being on probation is a far cry from endorsement, please don't get this confused. I just want to keep things as objective and fair as possible at Casinomeister.

 

[caruso]

It's heartening to see rogues evidently affected by public opinion. This is at odds with the claim that "bad press is good for business" - Grand Banks and Virtual - and apparently also at odds with Cloud's own previous opinion, based on those memorable remarks from that earlier exchange.

Absolutely no redemption. This fellow set out his stall at Rated Player (LOL, before my time), continued the same line at Extreme (THE most notorious RTG back in the day, before Virtual v.1 / Prism came along), apparently eventually got kicked out and moved on to CP where he was locking accounts and causing general player stress from day one - I can personally testify to that. It sends out TOTALLY the wrong message to the rest of the RTG rogue stable if people like this, with this kind of a history, are allowed off the hook. There are plenty of good RTGs currently, and absolutely NO reason for players to be encouraged to patronize operations like this.

Sorry, Warren / Richard / Oliver / Donald - no.

 

[bethug]

If they paid all players. It cool with me. Just let him know if he goes back bam he back up. People and companies do change.

 

[DeMango]

Casinomeister;
I have bypassed some juicy email bonus offers from American Grand in the past several months with all the warnings from this site. With the new ownership and the apparant detente with WC, are we able to peruse these offers with some degree of confidence or is this thread for Crystal Palace only?

 

[jerseyguy11]

I abstained. If they keep paying all their players thats a good thing. The power a casino has to label a player an "advantage player" is very troubling. But if this only affects the ability for a player to get a bonus AND HAS NO EFFECT ON PAYING OUT WINNINGS OR DEPOSITS, then maybe they can be redeemed, slowly.

 

[jpm]

Wow, this is a tough one Bryan. I think I would vote for a totally different option:

I'd like for Warren to come here and explain his rogue behavior and the reasons for it to all of us before we even consider letting him off the hook. Once you put them on probation, he just has to behave for 6 months and he's un-rogued (dis-rogued?). I think that's too easy for one with such a reputation for bad behavior. Lets have him here explaining why he behaved so badly and answer questions from the players (reasonable questions, not personal attacks). Then we can decide if he has EARNED probation.

 

[lanidar]

I didn't trust Warren / Richard / Oliver / Donald years ago and I don't trust him now. PERIOD.
His casinos must be losing money. Most likely, thanks to Casinomeister, no one is registering at his casinos.
I TRULY believe that this is a ploy to bring in business!
I guess you all know how I voted.

 

[Medusa]

I would like to see Warren explain this as well. And pay all the players due money from his casinos, myself included from getting stiffed at Golden Nile. (yes, I pitched a bitch)

 

[lanidar]

I would like to see Warren explain this as well. And pay all the players due money from his casinos, myself included from getting stiffed at Golden Nile. (yes, I pitched a bitch)

"SO WOULD I"

 

[caruso]

From the newsletter: "But if a player is deemed a bonus abuser they are paid their winnings + deposits and allowed back in without a bonus."

I have an account at HRL. I played there ONCE, when it opened, and lost. It was locked immediately.

I have another at Crystal Palace. Ditto above, but here I won (balancing the above loss). I was paid, and locked immediately.

I have an account at Cleopatra's. I've NEVER used it. It was in good standing. It's now locked. I Emailed Cloud / Curran / Brooks / Fortune about this. Never got a reply.

I am spammed weekly or twice weekly with promo Emails for ALL the above casinos.

Also in the NL: "He operates over 25 casinos and some of these are RTG's most successful operations."

What an awful state of affairs, that the worst operator in terms of player abuse is also the most successful. What kind of a message does this send out to crook licensees, both current and future?

 

[cipher]

"SO WOULD I"

I'd hav't to join in with Medusa and Lanidar on this one, but with one caveat.

There should be a way in which there could be a live feed set-up whereby Warren Cloud could present himself live here on the Casinomeister website while members of the Casinomeister forum ask Warren Cloud a myriad of questions. That way we would get a more true flavor as to his answers.

Who knows he may even be able to acquit himself. But anything short of that type of arrangement would not prompt my vote for a grant of probation.

Compared to even a couple of years ago this industry has done remarkably well in cleaning itself up through no help of the likes of Warren Cloud.

To give Warren Cloud even a chance to further muck things up would be a huge step backwards.

 

[grabherp]

I played at cleopatras casino with the 20$ and won 70$. That was 3 months ago. I asked for withdrawel 3 times, but it was rejected without a reason. No answer to all my emails. And suddenly my account there was closed this is really a disgrace! I want MY money WARREN NOW!!!!!!!!

If you read this my casino ID WAS: grabherp

cheers
grabherp

 

[nafanny29]

I have voted no after looking back at some of the old threads!! It is a very rare leopard that changes his spots!!

 

[Black21Jack]

Funny thing is that I play at many of the casinos owned by this group including CP and I never have any problems with them. Their customer service responds to all inquiries I have within 30 minutes, and are very friendly and helpful. Hmm I wonder why this could be? Do a search for CP and see how many of the problems do not involve bonuses, I would wager not too many. It still does not make it right, and if they have such problems with bonus abusers they should not offer them. But like I said before 100% of casinos will pay based on a deposit only cashout, why not save yourself these headaches? I am still baffled. So my vote on the poll was "YES" based on the fact that businesses do change, and if someone is willing to step up and admit they were wrong in the past they should be forgiven. Being on probation means that one mess up and they are gone so no one loses.

 

[thesmacker]

I cant even beleive this is a real poll. If the masterminds of the suicide bombers from the World Trade Center asked for a second chance would you grant them one?

This is the most devious, underhanded casino operator ever to disgrace the internet. He represents all that is wrong with this industry, the way he so calously handles situations with such arrogance and dismay. He is a cancer on this industry and instead of being given a second chance, should be removed like a tumor.
Cheers

 

[Sorcerak]

This is the most devious, underhanded casino operator ever to disgrace the internet. He represents all that is wrong with this industry, the way he so calously handles situations with such arrogance and dismay. He is a cancer on this industry and instead of being given a second chance, should be removed like a tumor.

Now.. tell us how you REALLY feel about them

 

[jpm]

There should be a way in which there could be a live feed set-up whereby Warren Cloud could present himself live here on the Casinomeister website while members of the Casinomeister forum ask Warren Cloud a myriad of questions. That way we would get a more true flavor as to his answers.

Oh, an even better idea Cipher. This can be VERY easily done thru Webex. He could setup a webex session for all involved and use a webcam to present himself. Its all browser based, so anyone interested should have no problem joining in.

 

[cipher]

Oh, an even better idea Cipher. This can be VERY easily done thru Webex. He could setup a webex session for all involved and use a webcam to present himself. Its all browser based, so anyone interested should have no problem joining in.

Thanks for the technical assist JPM. Maybe we should be posting a poll on that suggestion. I don't know what I'm doing in setting up these polls but I'm all for it. Thanks again and have a good one.

 

[zaphod42]

Wait a minute Bryan, let me get this straight:

For a casino to be deemed reputable it has to have a full year of clean operating history...

So why then can a nasty habitual rogue get himself redeemed with only 6 months of good behavior? It should be at least as long as it takes for a new casino to get your nod, should it not? And in the case of a serious repeat offender, I think it shoiuld probably take even longer...

At least, that's how I would handle it, but Casinomeister is much friendlier than me :notworthy

 

[largeeyes]

Wouldn't a reputable casino not be spamming like crazy? If so, why was my work email, with no relation whatsoever to casinos, bombarded with Casino Zeal ads?

 

[LRDell]

Never had a problem

I have always been one of the few supporters of CP on this forum. I understand that several people have had issues with CP and with Warren Cloud specifically, but Bryan asked for input from all who have had experiences with them.

I have made several nice cashouts (most recently for $4000) and never had a problem other than the waiting period. I have handled some small customer service issues with Oliver, and he has always been a gentleman and very helpful.

If Bryan feels that that there is evidence of a change in policies on Warren Clouds end, I believe probation might be a workable solution. The very concept of probation is to be under warning. Bryan could establish some very tight guidelines under which they immediately become rogue again if they cross the line.

And it might just have to cost WC a lot of $$$$ to clear up these old legitimate claims, and maybe probation wouldn't become effective until they are resolved.

 

[Tester]

I am owed

804. Have PM you the details.
Please let me know if you need more details or whatever.

 

[rod729]

Vegas Strip

After a year of run-around, Warren told me flat out that I would not be paid. Only after I hired a lawyer, did I and a group of other cheated people see any of our money. Let him pay our lawyer's fee of 10% if he really wants to make amends and explain to us his actions. There are plenty of sites that will give you a fair game. Save taking a chance on the gambling, not on the cash-out.
Rod729

 

[lanidar]

After a year of run-around, Warren told me flat out that I would not be paid. Only after I hired a lawyer, did I and a group of other cheated people see any of our money. Let him pay our lawyer's fee of 10% if he really wants to make amends and explain to us his actions. There are plenty of sites that will give you a fair game. Save taking a chance on the gambling, not on the cash-out.
Rod729

You hired a lawyer?
Did your group get all your monies less the attorneys fee?

 

[jetset]

I'm not sure if this is the same group, but if you search Casinomeister News there was a report not long ago of players getting their money by setting a lawyer onto Cloud - it gave the lawyer's address and I believe he was prepared to work on a contingency basis.