Crown Vegas is trying to steal my winnings on a 4k royal

[vtrac]

I have been playing online for 2-3 years. I know how certain online casinos act, and I know to check all the terms and conditions forwards and backwards. I had actually thought how I liked that Crown Vegas was completely upfront with their T&Cs, by stating everything out with each promo emailed, unlike most casinos. However, that doesn't seem to matter much when CV changes the terms after you cashout a big win and tries to steal your money.

 

[linda7]

With regard to the coupon promotions sent out by Crown Vegas, I have a question and need some help please. I just read their promotional coupon that was sent to me on Sunday. It was $100 for 100% bonus. As I read their rules that related to this particular offer, it said "Maximun cashout is 15x the deposit, after that all winnings will be voided". So does this mean that if I had used that promotion, the most I would be allowed to win would be $1500.00? If so, what would happen if I were to hit a Jackpot or something big? If these bonuses do in fact limit how much you can win, why bother playing at all? If you can lose your drawers without question, how dare they limt how much you can win? Is this a common deal with all online casinos? If someone would be kind enough to help me with these questions, I would be most grateful.

 

[Casinomeister]

<hr size=0>quote:<p>Maximun cashout is 15x the deposit, after that all winnings will be voided<hr size=0>​

This sounds more like Virtual Casino than CV's. That's an excellent question, what happens if you hit a jackpot. It's voided? C'mon now! I hope that CV will offer an explanation on this condition.

Back to the original issue though, are there any other affiliates (or players) out there who received this same promo?

And that's another thing, I'm spammed every day with "first time bonues" for casinos I'm already a member of. Most of these are from portals who have collected my email addresses in one way or another, so they haven't got a clue.

 

[theshys]

Ok, I must reply and use the bad words Virtual City. Before i found this wonderful site (casinomeister) I used a coupon at the horrible casino and in fact won $4000. I was only able to receive $200. So yes, you cannot keep all the winnings.

 

[jpm]

I thought it was also interesting that the link provided by CV in this thread pointed to some apparently anonymous server where they posted the T&C of the disputed coupon. Did anyone else notice this? If you go to the root of this URL, its not the CV homepage or anything else, its an under construction page. If you substitute

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

in place of the ip address in the URL, you don't see the T&C page either. Very odd I thought, this could explain the recent date stamp that someone else mentioned. I even checked the web 'wayback machine' to see if there were any history of the link provided and there was none.

Yes linda, that little clause in the T&C does mean if you hit the jackpot, you lose even though you win. A sneaky little trick I think to limit their free money losses, though I can't say as I blame them too much for putting a limit on it. I probably would too if I ran a casino.

Bryan, the signup emails I was talking about actually came from the casinos, not from affiliates (though I get a ton of them too). That's what really pissed me off. They KNOW I'm already a member and still send me these offers, and admit it when I complain.

 

[jyde]

It's quite common to place banners and stuff like that on a seperate server/IP.
The casino has to protect itself from spamming affiliates. If an affiliate is spamming and the casinos URL or IP is in the mail it will cause problems for the casino if it's reported. Instead they use a different, more or less anonymous site for clickthroughs.

 

[spearmaster]

Can't be Virtual City, theshys, because they do not use coupons (they use Microgaming). Virtual, yes, but not Virtual City.

 

[bobbiep]

I am rather surprised at the concept that you cannot keep winnings received during play on bonus money. Last year I won $10,000 (a giant shock to me) while playing dueces and jokers wild poker at the Golden Palace, while playing on their bonus offer for new players. It took lots of arguing and emails, and excuses for not sending me the money, and extra charges for preparation of checks, no larger than $3000 each, but finally after 30 days of constant communication, I received my money. Not once did they mention I was not eligible because of winning on a bonus. I waw new to online gaming at that time and have learned about "rogue" casinos, including the Golden Palace, so I consider myself lucky I ever received the money. By the way, the checks were handwritten, on a bank in Canada, and didn't even look real, but they flew without any problems.

I had another large winning with Lucky Nugget and they couldn't have been more helpful and efficient and that money was in my account with 3 days of winning.

I guess that's why they call it "gambling". :lol:

BobbieP

 

[vtrac]

Bryan, have you recieved any more mailers from the affils from around that time?

 

[jpm]

BobbieP,

The concept of limiting winnings won with bonus money is a rather new one, and so far I've only seen it done on a few RTG casinos. Not all of them are doing it, but that's why you have to scour the T&Cs before you start playing. I'd hate to hit major millions after getting a $50 or $100 bonus only to find out I can only take home $1500.

 

[Antonia1953]

Recently, I attended an open discussion luncheon with Senator Trent Lott, who is involved with a major effort to eliminate onling gaming. Their main thrust of reason were the scams, slow payouts, limited payouts, etc. Unfortunately, the online casinos lack of regulation is doing the most damage, yet they refuse to maintain higher standards.

 

[vtrac]

Well, I'm quite desparate now. If anyone can turn up a copy of the promo email that leads to me getting paid what is honestly my winnings, I will paypal/check/MO (your choice) $500.

 

[ionizer]

Bryan is an absolute Liar! He acts like this something new.

I won over 14,000 at crown vegas off accidentally playing 5$ slots instead of 1$ and he ruled against me that 20 x depost and bonus when deposit and bonus are 100 is 2,100 not 4000. He knows very well crown vegas does this.

Why is he lying and acting like he hasn't a clue? He ruled against me costing me thousands on top fo the 10,000 i had to eat for winning the jackpot on the slot.

He made them offer no explanations just flat out told me to piss off.

 

[linda7]

This is a copy and paste of the email I received from Crown Vegas for this past Sunday, 6/1/03. Please note that is says nothing at all about first time depositors. Also, Bryan as you can see you are only allowed to win 15x your deposit, all other winnings will be void. I think this is terrible. Bryan, if you would like I can forward the email to you.

Subj: 100% match this Sunday only!!
Date: 6/1/03 2:35:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: peter@crownvegas.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)


(in this space is the CV logo, for some reason I could not copy and paste it)


Match Bonus Sunday @ Crown Vegas Casino

Deposit $100 get $100 FREE!!!

Receive $100 FREE on your next deposit of $100 for play on Slots, Keno and Let em Ride.

Use coupon code: HRW7F

Terms & Conditions apply:
*This bonus is only valid for Sunday 06/01/03 EST time.
*This entire $100 bonus + $100 deposit can only be played on SLOTS, KENO and LET EM RIDE: all illegal
play will void all winnings.
*Other bonuses cannot be used in conjunction with this offer!
*Play through is 15x both the deposit and the Bonus.
*Danish players 30x both the deposit and the Bonus.
*Max Cash out 15x Deposit, excess winnings will be voided.
*No further deposits may be introduced until play-through requirements have been met.
Failure to comply will result in your entire winnings (including those made prior to the
new deposit) being made null & void.
*Please see our Website for our Full Terms and Conditions

 

[linda7]

TO IONIZER:

While I am very sympathetic about your monetary loss, that does not give you the right to call anyone a liar, especially Bryan! He is a man of integrity, honesty, decency and breaks his ass to try and keep this industry regulated.

How ironic that you ran to Bryan for help, and when you were wrong, instead of accepting responsibility for your own actions, you attack Bryan. The play through rules are quite simple...
you deposited 100, got 100 bonus...this equals $200 correct? Now you have to play this $200 TWENTY times before you have met the wagering requirements. $200 x 20 = $4,000. If you did not wager atleast $4,000 you cannot cash out, it really is that simple.

Therefore, please do not irritate me and attack Bryan's character. He is much more of a person than you will ever hope to be.

 

[Casinomeister]

Dear ionizer,

For one thing, watch your mouth. Next, here was your problem:

The bonus ionizer played:
[color=0000ff]Hi &gt;,&gt;,firstname&lt;,&lt;,,

Don't miss out on our MASSIVE 100% match bonus on SLOTS and KENO Play TODAY!

DEPOSIT $100 and get $100 FREE for the next 24 hours only.

Use Coupon Code: RN6E6

Please note that this entire $100 bonus+$100 deposit can only be played on
SLOTS and KENO: all illegal play will void all winnings.

*Please note these bonuses can only be taken up once only!
*Other bonuses cannot be used in conjunction with this offer!
*Play through is 20x both the deposit and the Bonus.
*Danish players 40x please see Website for Terms & Conditions.
*Max Cashout 20x Deposit + Bonus.
*Please see our Website for our Full Terms and Conditions!

I hope to see you at CrownVegas soon.

Good Luck and enjoy playing at Crown Vegas Casino!

[/color]

The casino contacted me for advice after receiving this email (from whom I'm guessing is ionizer):

[color=0000ff]Hello.

I have viewed your terms and conditions.

Please show me where is says that i cannot deposit
before finishing wagering requirements?

I deposited more only for the reason that the max
cashout is 20xdeposit. My deposits totaled 1100.

Also 20 x deposit + bonus appears to be 4000.00, that
is very misleading. I would never have played at your
casino with a limit like the. The whole point of slots
is winnings big. Why would anyone else play? If it
appeared to be 2,100 i wouldn't have played or i
would've played nickel slots. You definitely are not
encouraging gamblers to play at your casino.

I am horribly upset about this matter. I think it is
being handled poorly on your side.

The whole idea of all these hidden rules and sticky
terms is quite akin to the likes of prism casino. I
usually play at inetbet but i figured i'd try you out
awhile back since casinomeister said you were a
quality shop but i am extremely let down. I hope we
can resolve this. If it continues to become a problem
i would ask that bryan who runs the casinomeister site
step in about this matter if that is ok with you.

[/color]
Here is what the casino emailed to me:
[color=0000ff]Hi Bryan

I wonder if you can help on an issue where we have a problem with a player regarding a
slots only promotion.This is pre-emptive as he has said he would take this up with you.

The situation is as follows:
We ran a promotion offering a $100 Bonus for $100 deposit.
Wagering was a $4000 playthrough before cashout.
Maximum Cashout was 20 x Deposit + Bonus

Where the problem comes in is that the player won $10 280 on the slots
after wagering $1065.00. At this point he introduced a $1000 and continued
to play and won a further $2865.

The rules of the promotion required him to playthrough $4000 on the promotion.
He then introduced the $1000 hoping to confuse the issue regarding playthrough.
He then proceeded to request a cashout which was denied due to the fact he had
not played through on the original promotion amount.

In order to complete the promotion playthrough, we reset his account just prior
to him making the $1000 deposit and returned the $1000 to his bank account. We requested
him to complete his wagering playthrough of $2935 in order for him to cashout.

The other issue was that the maximum cashout was capped @ $2100 which was stated
in the promo email as 20x Deposit + Bonus. He saw this as being $4000 as opposed
to $2100. If you see below, you will notice that the Playthrough wording uses both the
deposit and bonus whereas the max cashout only uses 20x Deposit($100) + Bonus($100)
which translates to: 20x100+100=$2100

*Play through is 20x both the deposit and the Bonus.
*Max Cashout 20x Deposit + Bonus.

The reason we cap it and it is common practice is because of the continuous high
bonuses we are giving to existing players. We have this rule only on 100%+ bonuses.
(Not sign up bonuses)

All we want this player to do is playthrough and once completed to cashout and receive
his winnings. We are of the opinion that he knew full well what the restrictions were
and that his attempt to introduce another $1000 when he was already up $10 280 seems
fraudulent. According to our terms and conditions, any form of fraud will disqualify
a player from any winnings. We just want this guy to play fair and get what is due
to him once he has completed his playthrough.

I would really appreciate your help in this matter.

Kind regards,
CV[/color]
My reply:

[color=0000ff]
This is a toughie. I had my wife look at this (she used to teach Linguistics at San Diego State University), since the wording did seem a little ambiguous in the bonus terms. Most people read "and" and "+" as identically the same thing. But if you understand mathematical equations, you would know that 20 x 100 + 100 = 2100 not 4000 since the numbers are calculated left to right. So you are correct with the terms and conditions, but you may want to make this clearer by giving examples.

Sincerely,

Bryan
[/color]
So, why the hostility? And with your fucked up attitude, why should I even bother to assist you even more? Did you ever contact me on this? Or are you just having your jollies posting a bunch of crap in my board.

I take the time out to assist you, and this is your response. Why don't you go play at 1CNP casino and then go play out in the traffic when you're done.

 

[Casinomeister]

<hr size=0>quote:<p>He made them offer no explanations just flat out told me to piss off.
<hr size=0>​

I did no such thing, and I'm not going to let this thread digress into a "I hate Casinomeister" tirade. If you can't back up these half-baked comments with some sort of tangible evidence, then go waste someone else's bandwidth, and not mine.

 

[Casinomeister]

<hr size=0>quote:<p>*Max Cash out 15x Deposit, excess winnings will be voided. <hr size=0>​

WTFIT? :wtf:

I'll see if the casino will care to respond to this.

Maybe this serves as a lesson not to play bonuses.

As for vtrac, sheesh! I'm sorry! The only affilliate flyers I'm getting only provide a link to the T&C page. If I get any additional time this week, I'll check into it a bit more.

 

[jetset]

WHOA! This certainly does require a full explanation imo:

"quote:*Max Cash out 15x Deposit, excess winnings will be voided.
WTFIT?"

 

[Antonia1953]

I hate it that you have missed out on your winnings-it would be killing me too, but I've seen this stipulation a lot. I tell you, it just doesn't pay to play bonuses. It seems like they always turn into problems of one kind or another.

I honestly do not understand why you became so hostile at Bryan. He spends a lot of time working as intercessor for folks and has come through when everything else has failed.

 

[linda7]

Hi Bryan and Jetset,

I copied and pasted the most recent promotional email sent to me and that is what it says "Max cashout 15x deposit, excess winnings will be voided. I still have the original email if either of you would like to see it.

 

[jetset]

That seems quite unequivocal to me, Linda 7...Bryan you have better comms with CV than I, how about asking Steve (?) about this?

 

[jpm]

I'm confused about something. What's the big deal about the max cashout = 15x deposit? I mean, why aren't you as worked up about the 20x deposit plus 1x bonus max cashout? They're both restricting your winnings if you take the bonus, but 15x or 20x is pretty much the same diff to me. I'll either take them up on their bonus offer, knowing that I'm limited on how much I can take them for, or I won't bother with the bonus and take all of what I win with me. As long as I know going in, that's what counts.

 

[linda7]

Hi JPM,
Would you please explain the difference to me between the two max cash out restrictions. I do
not mean to sound stupid, I just assumed they were pretty much the same thing. You are always kind and informative, so if you could help me I would be very grateful. Thank you.

 

[jpm]

Hi Linda,

They pretty much are the same thing. Since they are both based on deposits of $100, then the 15x max cashout would mean that the most you could withdraw after getting this bonus and playing thru the required number of times, would be $1500 regardless of how much you won. So if you won a $100,000 progressive, you get $1500 and the rest is just removed from your account like it didn't exist.

For the 20x + 1x, that means the max cashout is 20x the bonus ($2000), plus 1x the bonus amount ($100) for a total of $2100. So like in the above example, anything above $2100 is just wiped out when you cashin.

Bottom line is, if you accept a bonus like this, don't play a progressive type game where you could win more than the max cashout amount. If you do, then that will be the time you'll get it and there won't be a thing you can do to get it. And no whining allowed if you decide to play a progressive anyway and win it. If you want to do that, then don't accept the bonus!