Crown Vegas is trying to steal my winnings on a 4k royal

[vtrac]

Last week I recieved an email from Crown Vegas with a coupon code. They send out 1-2 coupon codes a week, which I usually ignore, but I decided to play coupon QM7CA, which is a 33% bonus up to $330 free. So I deposit $990 and recieved approximately $327 in bonus money instantly. The email had the following rules attached to the email, which I read over to make sure that I qualified:
_________________________________________________
33% BONUS! Up To $330 FREE!!! - Coupon Code: QM7CA

*Max cash out = 10x your deposit. All excess winnings will be voided
*Please note these bonuses can only be taken up once !
*Other bonuses, comp points or any free money(manager deposit) cannot be used in conjunction with this offer!
*No further deposits may be introduced until play-through requirements have been met. Failure to comply will result in your entire winnings (including those made prior to the new deposit) being made null & void.
*Bonuses may NOT be played first or used on Pontoon, Baccarat, Craps and Roulette until the bonus wagering requirements have been met. All illegal play will void winnings and bonuses.
*Bonuses must be played out one at a time and each bonus requires a new deposit.
*Play-through is 15x both the deposit and the Bonus.(All Blackjack and Video Poker games = 20x play-through on your deposit and bonus for this promotion only.)
Example: play-through 15x $200(deposit $100 + bonus $100) = $3000 play-through required.
*Danish players play-through is 30x both the deposit and the Bonus.(All Blackjack games = 40x play-through on your deposit and bonus for this

PM _020403
_________________________________________________


I wagered at least $10k over the minimum, and in doing so I managed to hit a $4k royal playing Jacks or Better. I was very excited, and requested a withdrawl of $5176 via ACH. Today I check my email and got this:

_________________________________________________
Dear Victor

I am writing to you with regards to your withdrawal request of $5176. Unfortunately your withdrawal has been denied due to the fact that you played on a "first time depositors bonus" , when you have already deposited and taken up a coupon in the casino. According to the rules for this bonus, the winnings have been made void, however we have refunded your $990 deposit into your casino account.

I apologize for any inconvenience caused and thank-you for your understanding.

Should you have any queries please don't hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards

Nikki Marriott
VIP Manager
Crown Vegas Online Casino
Get the Royal Treatment!

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

_________________________________________________


While playing, I was down at one point to only a $350 or so. I had managed to climb back up to ~$750 or so when I hit my royal.

Crown Vegas had several days from the time I entered the coupon to the day I hit the royal to inform me that I used an invalid coupon code. I am certain that had I cashed out a net loss, they would not have refunded my $990 because of the "coupon" issue. However, I cash out a large win, and this is what happens. As you can clearly see by reading the rules of the coupon, there is NOTHING that states this is a new player bonus.

This is ridiculous! Deceptive practices like this by Crown Vegas and the likes at RTG are a curse to the industry. Any honorable casino would not have allowed me to use this coupon in the first place, and even if this "mistake" was made, they would simply just remove the bonus amount from my winnings. Voiding my winnings is nothing more than simple theft.

Avoid Crown Vegas! (and the rest of RTG for that matter)

 

[vtrac]

Any advice as to what I can do to get my winnings would greatly be appreciated.

 

[jpm]

I know that Bryan has said he will handle no more complaints about RTGs due to their abysmal record.

Did you actually get this coupon in one of their many weekly emails? I get those all the time too, but didn't see this one. If in fact this was a new player bonus, then what they did was to turn the clock back on your play and make it seem like the whole thing never occurred.

 

[nikkicv]

Please see below the Rules for the coupon QM7CA :

33% BONUS! Up To $330 FREE!!! - Coupon Code: QM7CA

*Please note these bonuses are for first time depositors only!
*Max cash out = 10x your deposit. All excess winnings will be voided
*Please note these bonuses can only be taken up once !
*Other bonuses, comp points or any free money(manager deposit) cannot be used in conjunction with this offer!
*No further deposits may be introduced until play-through requirements have been met. Failure to comply will result in your entire winnings (including those made prior to the new deposit) being made null & void.
*Bonuses may NOT be played first or used on Pontoon, Baccarat, Craps and Roulette until the bonus wagering requirements have been met. All illegal play will void winnings and bonuses.
*Bonuses must be played out one at a time and each bonus requires a new deposit.
*Play-through is 15x both the deposit and the Bonus.(All Blackjack and Video Poker games = 20x play-through on your deposit and bonus for this promotion only.)
Example: play-through 15x $200(deposit $100 + bonus $100) = $3000 play-through required.
*Danish players play-through is 30x both the deposit and the Bonus.(All Blackjack games = 40x play-through on your deposit and bonus for this

I have also included the link directly to these rules for anyone to have a look at.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

As you can clearly see the rules show that this is a first time depositors bonus.

Vtrac won a very nice sum of money on his first signup bonus and Crown Vegas paid him out without any hassle and in a very timeous manner.

I feel that Crown Vegas has been fair in sticking to the rules for our promos.

If anyone has any queries regarding this issue or any of the promo rules, please address them to disputes@crownvegas.com

Nikki Marriott
Crown Vegas Casino

 

[jyde]

So - you're saying vtrac changed the terms before posting.

vtrac?

 

[The Dude]

Vtrac, do you have an original email copy you can send to me? Did anyone else receive this?

 

[jyde]

For the record - the page nikkicv linked was modified on Mon, 19 May 2003 10:22:09 GMT - so I'd really like to see a copy of the email from vtrac

 

[amandajm]

How can you tell that jyde please?

 

[jyde]

I'm a psychic haser:

Some browsers can tell - and if you're a linuxfreak (which I'm not) you can look it up.

 

[amandajm]

What is a psychic please?
What is a browser please?
What is a linuxfreak please?

Seriously though it would be a decent trick to know how to check like you have.

More to the point..An error or misunderstanding cannot be the final excuse if it is proven they changed that page to suit.

 

[jyde]

A psychic is like a medium - someone who "see things". Internet Explorer and Netscape are browsers. Mozilla is a browser that can show when pages where changed. Linux is an operating system like Windows. If you know your Linux you can look up when a page was changed - don't ask me how.

I'm not saying they changed the page to suit - I'm just saying you can't use it as "evidence" since it was changed recently.

 

[The Dude]

Actually, I believe it shows when the page was last uploaded. And being uploaded doesn't necessarily mean a change of the text.

I've been forwarded a copy of the email from the casino. It was an affiliate deal sent to affiliates to send to their players. There should be many more out there.

 

[jyde]

I agree - however uploaded/changed basically describes the same thing. But you have to agree that if the date had been 1 to 1 weeks ago there wouldn't have been much to discuss.

 

[jpm]

Still, it is interesting that the only difference in the two is the missing first line, which is key to the whole dispute.

If it was an affiliate (aka f'ing spammer), then that could explain why he got it if he was already a member of the casino. I'm a member there too and get 2 or 3 a week, but have never seen this one.

 

[vtrac]

First of all, I'm shocked at a casino that would stoop to this level. The terms were obviously changed AFTER I made my cashout. That is as unprofessional as you can get.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the email anymore. I copied and pasted the terms, AS THEY WERE, to a text document and deleted the email. My hotmail account has since emptied my deleted emails.

Nikki, I still can't believe your actions. Do you really think I would change the terms before posting them here, and then INVITE YOU to participate in this thread? I wanted for CV (and you) to have a discussion of this matter and now you come here, basically calling me a liar. I'm dumbfounded.

 

[jyde]

How come the system allows existing players to claim new user bonuses? It's not the first time this turns out to be a problem.

 

[The Dude]

Perhaps a few more affiliates can come forward with the same email that was forwarded to me. That should settle it.

And I agree with jyde, this has been a problem before.
[color=ff0000](warning--long thread)[/color]

 

[jyde]

I find it strange that the casino keep handing new user bonuses out to existing players. I find it hard to believe the system can't tell one from another. I find it even stranger that players can play with this bonus for DAYS without problems. Judging from the old complaints it appears they're waiting for people to bust out or win big - so they can screw them over. The new user coupon from the old complaints (from the magazine) was claimed by SEVERAL existing players - most of them got paid in full except for those who won big.

 

[rainfall]

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack

Let's go over how crown vegas works

They have stolen money... We know this
They haven't even paid me my winnings without a bonus and my refunded my deposit so i can pay bryan back which i will.

I still do not believe that the advertisement he got scanned had those terms as well. It would be SOOOO easy to add them in. It's called photoshop. I have no way to prove this but let me move on as this is irrelevant to this case

------------------------------------------------


Let me tell you what crown does.

They send an email from PETER - CLIENT LIASON to you even if you are an existing user offering you new user bonuses. The thing is "Peter" also sends out existing user bonuses. So if you did not check things out 100% every time. Let's say you got in the regular pattern of playing peter's promotions. You just put the coupon in and played. Over and Over. Eventually you would just stop checking terms and assuming they are the same. Regardless of what bryan will probably say this is how most online gamblers work. They get into patterns or habits. Which yes is their ignorance and does allow them to be screwed, but bryan is on complicit in these crimes.

So it would be very easy to play a deal that you might assume was existing because crown vegas sends you and email from the same guy who sends you your normal weekly/weekend promos and if you didn't check EVERY SINGLE term and condition.

Crown works like this quite often, and bryan CONTINUES to support them. I have seem as many complaints against them as prism

For example the guy who posted on WOL that he got jacked by them because crown said max cashout was

20 x deposit + bonus

Yes in the world of PEMDAS this is only (20d)+b But in the world of casinos loosely writing everything this is 20(d+b).

If i had complained here that a casino told me to wager 20 x d + b and i wagered (20d)+b instead of 20(d+b) bryan would have said. "Cmon you moron, wouldn't you assume its d+b as thats the way it is everywhere".

Apparently Bryan ruled in favor of crown vegas again in the matter and the guy got screwed out of over 2000.00 thanks to bryan.

It's amazing how traitors of the people can sleep at night. But then again, He does live in germany, and we know they have a background of being able to sleep after their wrongdoings..

But then again what do you expect from a guy who completely plagiarizes Ben Franklin. (NOTE : See NYTIMES columnist for reference to what should happen to plagiarists and liars)

 

[The Dude]

Rainfall is banned from the board. I won't tolerate his obnoxious hateful behaviour anymore.

His statements are racist, demented, insulting, and just plain bullshit. I won't waste time with this idiot.

Moving on...

 

[jetset]

This guy is in urgent need of counselling - of the psychiatric kind.

 

[gamblinboi]

All I can say is - again?

Why is it that InetBet has no problem keeping track of their various coupons and making sure existing users can't get new user promos?

RTG is great software, and I hear their backend is very good. It should be trivial to set certain coupons to be applicable to first deposits only, and yet Crown Vegas doesn't do this.

I got caught up in this sort of scandal before, and all I can say is - fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on YOU. The casino should bite the bullet, if it can't handle its coupons it should pay for the bets.

 

[jpm]

Geez Bryan, it took you a whole 16 minutes to give rainfall the boot. What took you so long?

There's a simple way to avoid the pitfalls in the multiple offers per week he describes: READ THE TERMS & CONDITIONS. No matter how seasoned a gambler you are, that should be the first thing you read after the part that says how much they are offering you for 'free'.

Personally, nothing pisses me off more than getting email offers of huge bonuses from casinos I'm already a customer of, only to find out they are for first time deposits only. I've told more than one casino to piss off after they did this more than once to me. First though, I pester them to find out how I can claim the bonus they are offering me (knowing full well I can't) then rip them a new one when they tell me it is for first time deposits only.

 

[gamblinboi]

jpm,

i believe the person in question did read the terms and conditions - they did not include that the bonus was for new users only. Crown Vegas has done this before, and I now believe it is intentional. It easily allows them to void the play of winners, and the losers... too bad... How many people who lost on that last coupon that this occured on got their money back?

 

[jpm]

I was referring to rainfall's post gamblinboi, not vtrac. Specifically because he says "Eventually you would just stop checking terms and assuming they are the same." BIG MISTAKE. Never ever assume anything when it comes to online gambling. Always read the rules forwards & backwards and then as the casino directly if there is still any question in your mind.