Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[bamberfishcake]

I'll....put this out there.
I comment on US politics. Why?
Let's put aside they are our neighbours, and our major cities border their major cities.
Personally, I've travelled the US. I've lived there. Worked there, Ran a company there.
I'm ENTITLED.

Do you know what I don't do?
Jump in the UK election threads, Brexit, etc
Because I havent a dog in the fight.
Oh, I may jump in with a bit of jocularity.

But still, funny, people seem to think, well, let's defend the Canadians when really, we are just fine defending ourselves

But i done saw it on Fox, my local paper, the Daily Mail etc etc
Seriously, if you cant listen to what the ACTUAL Canadians say in this thread, what are you fighing for? Just....cuz....you want to o fight?

I am listening, doesn't mean I have to agree, and just because I don't live there, doesn't mean I can't have an opinion or the right to a voice - are you Trudeau in disguise?

p.s. I don't see you as the enemy in this fiasco, but you're making it hard to have a discussion with a 'shut up your not Canadian' approach. Said before, if you don't like the candour in the thread, jog on

p.p.s. This a Covid thread and a discussion about the effect on the world. It just so happens Canada is the central focus at the minute because of what's happening. I think what's happening in Canada is a prerequisite, maybe a social trial, to what will be rolled out across America and then the UK.

 

[dionysus]

I am listening, doesn't mean I have to agree, and just because I don't live there, doesn't mean I can't have an opinion or the right to a voice - are you Trudeau in disguise?

I really cant say it much more, if you arent willing to listen or read
I enjoy ALL opinions
I'd just rather, they come from an educated, balanced POV

Cant be JT in disguise. I'm 6'1 and blonde and as white as driven snow

 

[goatwack]

Anyone think the Castro pic on right has a touch of the Liam Neeson about it? No? A sort of 'jovial' version?

Ah c'mon, it's right there!

 

[dionysus]

Anyone think the Castro pic on right has a touch of the Liam Neeson about it? No? A sort of 'jovial' version?

Ah c'mon, it's right there!

shit, if he's Liam blood, he's gonna kill the whole room

 

[bamberfishcake]

I really cant say it much more, if you arent willing to listen or read

What planet are you on Dion? I've read all your posts and answered all your points.

You have selectively picked out things to respond to.

I'm willing to listen, and I read my fair share, doesn't mean I have to agree, I have an opinion.

 

[paul7388]

I could search the internet for the answer to my question. But can i believe what i read.

So this freedom convoy or whatever it is. Are the trucks actually blocking off roads etc. and causing disruption?

 

[dionysus]

What planet are you on Dion? I've read all your posts and answered all your points.

You have selectively picked out things to respond to.

I'm willing to listen, and I read my fair share, doesn't mean I have to agree, I have an opinion.

I picked out the post because you quoted several people; i selected the one according to me.
And, well Earth, I'd have thought was obvious

 

[dionysus]

I could search the internet for the answer to my question. But can i believe what i read.

So this freedom convoy or whatever it is. Are the trucks actually blocking off roads etc. and causing disruption?

Were. Not so much. They are being herded off

 

[goatwack]

If everyone could kindly just comment on their country's news and not others', that'd be appreciated, thankyou.

This includes Brexit, Biden, Trump or anything else outside one's jurisdiction. And if not actually there, in person, witnessing the event, or a proven expert in whatever field being discussed, then kindly bugger off. We don't like no people with their proletariat opinions round these 'ere parts, oohh arrrr

 

[dionysus]

What planet are you on Dion? I've read all your posts and answered all your points.

You have selectively picked out things to respond to.

I'm willing to listen, and I read my fair share, doesn't mean I have to agree, I have an opinion.

gosh...that...was a selectivve post

 

[paul7388]

Were. Not so much. They are being herded off

As if they are blocking roads then the Canadians have more patience than most.

People can say what they want about right to protest and freedom of speech etc.

But fact is. Yes i can actually call this fact as it happens. Not just an opinion.

If it was in any other country they might have their protest for a day or two. After that using what ever means necessary the protest would be dismantled.

See a lot of UK opinions in here. Lets say we had a freedom convoy that went in and blocked all main roads in London. Might be there for a day or two. But does anybody seriously think they would be allowed to carry on for weeks. It would get broke up long before that.

Other European countries and countries around the world would go in with whatever force necessary and remove it even quicker.

 

[geordiecolin]

An old women with a walker has reportedly been trampled by the police horses and has died

 

[paul7388]

If everyone could kindly just comment on their country's news and not others', that'd be appreciated, thankyou.

This includes Brexit, Biden, Trump or anything else outside one's jurisdiction. And if not actually there, in person, witnessing the event, or a proven expert in whatever field being discussed, then kindly bugger off. We don't like no people with their proletariat opinions round these 'ere parts, oohh arrrr

Thats a bit unfair as you have a few interesting countries to choose from.

I only have UK.

 

[dionysus]

As if they are blocking roads then the Canadians have more patience than most.

People can say what they want about right to protest and freedom of speech etc.

But fact is. Yes i can actually call this fact as it happens. Not just an opinion.

If it was in any other country they might have their protest for a day or two. After that using what ever means necessary the protest would be dismantled.

See a lot of UK opinions in here. Lets say we had a freedom convoy that went in and blocked all main roads in London. Might be there for a day or two. But does anybody seriously think they would be allowed to carry on for weeks. It would get broke up long before that.

Other European countries and countries around the world would go in with whatever force necessary and remove it even quicker.

We're...pretty mellow. Let it run its course, a few weeks, now, stamping down
Dunno why people say, gosh, despotic.
Christ, we allowed it and now, saying, cheers, move along (or well, ef off)

 

[goatwack]

As if they are blocking roads then the Canadians have more patience than most.

People can say what they want about right to protest and freedom of speech etc.

But fact is. Yes i can actually call this fact as it happens. Not just an opinion.

If it was in any other country they might have their protest for a day or two. After that using what ever means necessary the protest would be dismantled.

See a lot of UK opinions in here. Lets say we had a freedom convoy that went in and blocked all main roads in London. Might be there for a day or two. But does anybody seriously think they would be allowed to carry on for weeks. It would get broke up long before that.

Other European countries and countries around the world would go in with whatever force necessary and remove it even quicker.

You mean like Insulate Britain did for weeks?

 

[dionysus]

You mean like Insulate Britain did for weeks?

yes, but without the asbestos

 

[paul7388]

You mean like Insulate Britain did for weeks?

Yes. Those nutters had many protests for weeks.

Difference is they never blocked motorways for weeks on end. Many roads blocked were cleared in hours.

Or do you really think if they blocked all the roads in to london they would just be left to do it until they felt like leaving, They would be cleared.

 

[interlog]

wouldn’t say dullard. the facts speak for themselves. his mother and father where known swingers also where on a extended honeymoon in the caribbean just happens it was 9 months before little castro was born they also loved castro . he is the absolute spitting image of castro too. sometimes you need to think outside the box. everything is a lie anyway and trudeau is a scum bag of the highest order. i thought the uk was like north korea but canada is another level

You are comparing the UK with North Korea? Please tell me you are not serious.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Nobody is allowed to mention North Korea because we have not visited nor lived there

 

[dionysus]

You are comparing the UK with North Korea? Please tell me you are not serious.

Hell look back, Canada was compared to Nazi Germany

 

[goatwack]

Yes. Those nutters had many protests for weeks.

Difference is they never blocked motorways for weeks on end. Many roads blocked were cleared in hours.

Or do you really think if they blocked all the roads in to london they would just be left to do it until they felt like leaving, They would be cleared.

Maybe we watched differing news reports on it, and so my version is probably wrong, but when I saw it they were sat in the middle of main motorways causing untold disruption for hours at a time, as the police didn't want to remove them?

They'd also co-ordinate their protests and select locations based on causing the most disruption. Then, when arrested, 'that lot' would simply......do it all over again!

So yes, it's comparable, yes trade routes were blocked for days and yes lives were lost no doubt

 

[interlog]

Hell look back, Canada was compared to Nazi Germany

Well that is bad too.

The only comparison between the UK and North Korea is the choice of hair style the leaders are sporting.

 

[bamberfishcake]

The fuel strikes caused a fair bit of disruption in the UK also, and the government backed down, for a few months before they hiked prices again anyway.

 

[interlog]

Maybe we watched differing news reports on it, and so my version is probably wrong, but when I saw it they were sat in the middle of main motorways causing untold disruption for hours at a time, as the police didn't want to remove them?

They'd also co-ordinate their protests and select locations based on causing the most disruption. Then, when arrested, 'that lot' would simply......do it all over again!

So yes, it's comparable, yes trade routes were blocked for days and yes lives were lost no doubt

Well I guess that the police has to way up the right of a peaceful protest and offences being committed. Not a decision that you can take lightly considering all and sundry are watching.

 

[paul7388]

Maybe we watched differing news reports on it, and so my version is probably wrong, but when I saw it they were sat in the middle of main motorways causing untold disruption for hours at a time, as the police didn't want to remove them?

They'd also co-ordinate their protests and select locations based on causing the most disruption. Then, when arrested, 'that lot' would simply......do it all over again!

So yes, it's comparable, yes trade routes were blocked for days and yes lives were lost no doubt

You said it your self. Hours.

Big difference in having a disruptive protest that lasts a few hours or a day than one that runs constantly for weeks.

Police never want to remove people until they have to as they do not want to risk violence.

Same reason as when Rangers won league last year their fans took over City Centre for whole day. Was a disruptive and illegal gathering but police would not move in as it was safer to let it happen. Until things started getting out of hand late at night and they were forced to break it up.

Protests and marches that are disruptive take place all the time. People have a right to protest. But all protests will get broke up before they last weeks if they are causing disruption.

But then again maybe news is reported different up here.

 

[Kroffe]

Well that is bad too.

The only comparison between the UK and North Korea is the choice of hair style the leaders are sporting.

 

[goatwack]

You said it your self. Hours.

Big difference in having a disruptive protest that lasts a few hours or a day than one that runs constantly for weeks.

Police never want to remove people until they have to as they do not want to risk violence.

Same reason as when Rangers won league last year their fans took over City Centre for whole day. Was a disruptive and illegal gathering but police would not move in as it was safer to let it happen. Until things started getting out of hand late at night and they were forced to break it up.

Protests and marches that are disruptive take place all the time. People have a right to protest. But all protests will get broke up before they last weeks if they are causing disruption.

But then again maybe news is reported different up here.

Yes, well, it's a shame Priti Patel didn't share your vision. They caused untold damage over many hours per day for many weeks, same difference.

They too claimed to be protesting peacefully, and yet began to throw demands out like terrorists if those weren't met. They'd gaslight all and sundry and would openly dismiss blocking ambulances and so forth as, well, casualties of war I guess.

Lest we forget 'police' even asking the protestors if they needed anything, cups of tea etc.

I have no doubt other European countries would give any type of protestors short shrift. Just to claim it would never happen in the UK/ London is a falsehood, as it already has, and the damage wrought by them pretty high....

 

[paul7388]

Yes, well, it's a shame Priti Patel didn't share your vision. They caused untold damage over many hours per day for many weeks, same difference.

They too claimed to be protesting peacefully, and yet began to throw demands out like terrorists if those weren't met. They'd gaslight all and sundry and would openly dismiss blocking ambulances and so forth as, well, casualties of war I guess.

Lest we forget 'police' even asking the protestors if they needed anything, cups of tea etc.

I have no doubt other European countries would give any type of protestors short shrift. Just to claim it would never happen in the UK/ London is a falsehood, as it already has, and the damage wrought by them pretty high....

Lol okay if you really believe seperate protests that are unstoppable lasting for a few hours no matter how disruptive would have been left for weeks constant without getting broken up that is your opinion.

Obviously noone can stop protesters keeping doing same protests. But they would get stopped each time not left to run for weeks on end. But if you cannot see difference between protests getting stopped. Protesters getting moved on before coming back again and a disruptive protest that would be allowed to carry on for weeks with no action then guess it is just the way we view things differently.

 

[interlog]

Yes, well, it's a shame Priti Patel didn't share your vision. They caused untold damage over many hours per day for many weeks, same difference.

They too claimed to be protesting peacefully, and yet began to throw demands out like terrorists if those weren't met. They'd gaslight all and sundry and would openly dismiss blocking ambulances and so forth as, well, casualties of war I guess.

Lest we forget 'police' even asking the protestors if they needed anything, cups of tea etc.

I have no doubt other European countries would give any type of protestors short shrift. Just to claim it would never happen in the UK/ London is a falsehood, as it already has, and the damage wrought by them pretty high....

Big difference between UK and European policing. The UK version is the snow flake version whilst the Europen version is the let's get the water cannons out version when it comes to demonstrations that look like they are getting out of hand.

Just look at the way the UK police dealt with the 2011 riots. Wouldn't have happend in the Netherlands, France, Germany or Spain.

 

[goatwack]

Lol okay if you really believe seperate protests that are unstoppable lasting for a few hours no matter how disruptive would have been left for weeks constant without getting broken up that is your opinion.

Obviously noone can stop protesters keeping doing same protests. But they would get stopped each time not left to run for weeks on end. But if you cannot see difference between protests getting stopped. Protesters getting moved on before coming back again and a disruptive protest that would be allowed to carry on for weeks with no action then guess it is just the way we view things differently.

But....but....you mean like they were allowed to protest for weeks, even though you're saying that scenario wouldn't be allowed to happen

You're talking about what the police should have done and prevented, before it escalates, against what actually transpired ?

It took weeks before injunctions were taken out against them, because they were openly flouting the law, and even if arrested, they'd be back on the tarmac before you could say 'cretinous hippies'

Police enabling them, rather than arresting them, for weeks on end. Only doing the bare minimum to allay drivers' fears.

I guess drivers just 'chose' to carry some of these protestors away for shits and giggles, not out of sheer exasperation at the police's failure to do their job...

Throw in them gluing themselves to roads and the Government's sloth- like response, yes, it would 'never' be allowed to happen. I guess I must have gone all Stevie Wonder when seeing their deeds for all them weeks!

 

[interlog]

Just an example as to how the police in the Netherlands deals with stuff if you don't listen. It was a warning shot right at the beginning. We used to get taught at school (appreciate that this is some 30 odd years ago) that when you try to run away from the police a warning shot will follow, if you then continue to run away, expect to be shot.

 

[paul7388]

But....but....you mean like they were allowed to protest for weeks, even though you're saying that scenario wouldn't be allowed to happen

You're talking about what the police should have done and prevented, before it escalates, against what actually transpired ?

It took weeks before injunctions were taken out against them, because they were openly flouting the law, and even if arrested, they'd be back on the tarmac before you could say 'cretinous hippies'

Police enabling them, rather than arresting them, for weeks on end. Only doing the bare minimum to allay drivers' fears.

I guess drivers just 'chose' to carry some of these protestors away for shits and giggles, not out of sheer exasperation at the police's failure to do their job...

Throw in them gluing themselves to roads and the Government's sloth- like response, yes, it would 'never' be allowed to happen. I guess I must have gone all Stevie Wonder when seeing their deeds for all them weeks!

Again you are twisting the narrative to fit your needs so no point to this.

Yes not much can be done if protests take place in different locations daily for weeks. But hell of a big difference from a disruptive protest blocking motorways into London today. And those roads getting left unblocked and those protestors still sitting there 3 weeks from now with Motorways still blocked and having not been reopened at all.

But okay maybe you are right. A disruptive protest could go and block of Downing street just now. And in 3 weeks it will still be running with no action took.

Maybe if you have gone all Stevie Wonder be a good time for an opticians appointment .

Anyway out of all your posts not one has even answered my original comment.

Do you really think a non stop disruptive protest lasting weeks with out a break would just be left. I hardly think so. And all your examples have nothing at all to do with that scenario.

 

[goatwack]

Again you are twisting the narrative to fit your needs so no point to this.

Yes not much can be done if protests take place in different locations daily for weeks. But hell of a big difference from a disruptive protest blocking motorways into London today. And those roads getting left unblocked and those protestors still sitting there 3 weeks from now with Motorways still blocked and having not been reopened at all.

But okay maybe you are right. A disruptive protest could go and block of Downing street just now. And in 3 weeks it will still be running with no action took.

Maybe if you have gone all Stevie Wonder be a good time for an opticians appointment .

What narrative? What exactly are you talking about?

You said these types of protests wouldn't be allowed to happen here as they'd be cleared in a day or two. I cited a recent example of that not being the case, I take it you're happy to minimize Insulate Britain's nutjob carnage to make your point. A lot of people in the UK didn't think so....

And the opticians thing - good one. That's a good one

 

[paul7388]

What narrative? What exactly are you talking about?

You said these types of protests wouldn't be allowed to happen here as they'd be cleared in a day or two. I cited a recent example of that not being the case, I take it you're happy to minimize Insulate Britain's nutjob carnage to make your point. A lot of people in the UK didn't think so....

And the opticians thing - good one. That's a good one

Lol but your example is different. They might have been for same cause but different protests and locations.

But okay give me one example from your insulate Britain that was disruptive and lasted weeks on ened without getting stopped. Not talking different protests i am talking one single protest in one location that was allowed to go on for as long as they wanted.

No one could stop groups of protestors coming every day and blocking the same road. Be impossible . But pretty sure original protestors blocking the road would not still be their weeks later without the road having opened at all.

But guess i am wrong. So basically you are saying that in Britain a group of 100 hundred protestors could go to every Motorway in Britain. Block them and have every road shut for weeks as they would never be moved.

 

[goatwack]

Lol but your example is different. They might have been for same cause but different protests and locations.

But okay give me one example from your insulate Britain that was disruptive and lasted weeks on ened without getting stopped. Not talking different protests i am talking one single protest in one location that was allowed to go on for as long as they wanted.

No one could stop groups of protestors coming every day and blocking the same road. Be impossible . But pretty sure original protestors blocking the road would not still be their weeks later without the road having opened at all.

But guess i am wrong. So basically you are saying that in Britain a group of 100 hundred protestors could go to every Motorway in Britain. Block them and have every road shut for weeks as they would never be moved.

Semantics, and childish reasoning. What difference does it make if one protestor hogs a road for six hours, then gets arrested, released, and resumes the protests. Or did you expect them to super glue themselves to the roads for weeks and be hand- fed by their friends, until there's just a skeletal husk left

It doesn't matter as to their preferred methods, the resultant chaos was the same, causing untold disruption among emergency services, trade links and whatever else, unabated for weeks. But yes, it's in no way comparable to what's happening in Canada. Sorry I mentioned it!

 

[Steviedoo]

trudeau just like his father castro

Hi father would have got rid of the truckers on the very first day.

Not like Castro but like Trudeau.

 

[paul7388]

Semantics, and childish reasoning. What difference does it make if one protestor hogs a road for six hours, then gets arrested, released, and resumes the protests. Or did you expect them to super glue themselves to the roads for weeks and be hand- fed by their friends, until there's just a skeletal husk left

It doesn't matter as to their preferred methods, the resultant chaos was the same, causing untold disruption among emergency services, trade links and whatever else, unabated for weeks. But yes, it's in no way comparable to what's happening in Canada. Sorry I mentioned it!

Oh laughing at the childish reasoning bit. From the one that has to have last word . But again i will let you have it as can not be arsed.

I will let you have as many examples as you wish. None of which change the fact a protest blocking a road non stop would get dismantled with in weeks. Whether they choose to reblock it is irrelevant lol.

 

[geordiecolin]

 

[Steviedoo]

There is no sliding scale for oppression, sorry if you don't like the terminology, I didn't post it to offend, I say as I see, but just because another country is clearly more oppressed, doesn't mean the cap doesn't fit.







If all of the above is true, why drop the mandates for political gain, wouldn't that make the parties less popular? Also, the Canadian government website states a lower figure than 90% vaccinated.



Getting a third of votes is not meaningless in a democracy, it means two-thirds support others

The point is that this how we win elections in Canada. With just a little more than one third of the vote. 36% and up you’re in. So Trudeau getting 32 or 33% of the vote and making it sound that wow only one third of the vote is bad. No leader/government ever gets more than 36-39% of the vote. We have five parties and our votes get split into those five parties.

So saying he got one third of the vote and making it sound like no one wanted him is misleading. Saying he didn’t get two thirds of the vote also not so black and white.

 

[bamberfishcake]

@paul7388 I could be wrong, but I believe the Canadian Truckers did/have blocked the roads.

There was a lot of pressure from the US because cross-border trade suffered.

 

[bamberfishcake]

The point is that this how we win elections in Canada. With just a little more than one third of the vote. 36% and up you’re in. So Trudeau getting 32 or 33% of the vote and making it sound that wow only one third of the vote is bad. No leader/government ever gets more than 36-39% of the vote. We have five parties and our votes get split into those five parties.

So saying he got one third of the vote and making it sound like no one wanted him is misleading. Saying he didn’t get two thirds of the vote also not so black and white.

I see, so whereas in the UK, the majority of votes go to two parties, you guys have more front runners.

Thank you for helping me have a better understanding.

 

[Steviedoo]

An old women with a walker has reportedly been trampled by the police horses and has died

Fake news.
Please check your sources.

 

[goatwack]

So that's how the voting works. Still doesn't explain how Trudeau got in

 

[paul7388]

I see, so whereas in the UK, the majority of votes go to two parties, you guys have more front runners.

Thank you for helping me have a better understanding.

It is a bit like the voting in Scotland.

SNP wins just about every seat.

But actual votes for SNP are way less than 50%. They get all the seats as the rest of the votes are split between Labour , Conservative and to lesser extent Liberal Democrats and Green party.

So SNP win just about all areas but in total they have more votes against them than for them.

 

[geordiecolin]

Fake news.
Please check your sources.

"reportedly"

 

[Steviedoo]

So that's how the voting works. Still doesn't explain how Trudeau got in

He has nice hair.

 

[Kroffe]

He has nice hair.

Its alright, but not what i would call PM-worthy hair.

This is what i expect from a Prime minister, hair perfection aka hairfection.

 

[Steviedoo]

"reportedly"

Not reportedly.
No one died.

 

[geordiecolin]

Not reportedly.
No one died.

You said Fake news check your sources. I said reportedly in that post. Check your dictionary

 

[geordiecolin]

They welcomed the opportunity to implement the changes so now they can freeze bank accounts and crypto of anyone they see fit to in the future.

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