Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

people can think what they want but so far 41 people have died from getting the Astrazeneca vaccine while 6.3 million people have died from Covid 19. The story about the child going to his father's funeral shortly after the Astrazeneca vaccine is sad but so is this and there are many more stories
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Where does the '41' figure come from if you don't mind me asking?

I think most places stopped using the AZ, certainly for the demographic groups who seemed at risk of these fatal clots.

The point is not just to settle for anything (death from an illness is different from death due to a medicine) actually have some good benchmarks the vaccine must surpass for safety, effectiveness etc... Probably the flu vaccine's overall performance is what you'd want to match at least, and they've been around donkey's years.
 
Person Im in constant close contact with and share a house with got a sore throat n cough for past 2 days, tested positive twice since. They have had 2 shots but not in over 9 months since they decided to not continue with those.
I expected to feel something by now considering we are close 24/7 and this isnt a big house, being not vaccinaterered and all, but I just can't get it.
spoke too soon didn't I, lol. came on with a big headache and hot n cold shivers for half the evening. didn't help that I'd barely slept in 3 days prior though tbqh lol. didnt stop me punting away till 5am either like a boss.
Exact same symptons as my brother down south had recently, though he injects himself with the mystery fluid due to having got a job with nhs just when covid begun.
feek ok today though.
 
spoke too soon didn't I, lol. came on with a big headache and hot n cold shivers for half the evening. didn't help that I'd barely slept in 3 days prior though tbqh lol. didnt stop me punting away till 5am either like a boss.
Exact same symptons as my brother down south had recently, though he injects himself with the mystery fluid due to having got a job with nhs just when covid begun.
feek ok today though.
Having been in a house with bonanza running at the same time as CV-19, i know which was the biggest challenge to overcome.

BTW - up here i Scotland we call the mystery fluid by it's name: heroin :p
 
Where does the '41' figure come from if you don't mind me asking?

I think most places stopped using the AZ, certainly for the demographic groups who seemed at risk of these fatal clots.

The point is not just to settle for anything (death from an illness is different from death due to a medicine) actually have some good benchmarks the vaccine must surpass for safety, effectiveness etc... Probably the flu vaccine's overall performance is what you'd want to match at least, and they've been around donkey's years.

"Flu viruses are constantly mutating, so the vaccine is updated annually based on researchers' best guess of which virus strains will be circulating among people in a given season."

"Several flu viruses are circulating all the time, which is why people may still get the flu despite being vaccinated since the vaccine is specific to one strain."

Source: World Health Organisation

Best guess, eh? So in effect, the flu vaccine we received this year is not the same as the flu vaccine from last year, or the year before, or even the year before that, and doesn't necessarily prevent infection after being vaccinated.

Sounds suspiciously similar to people still getting COVID after being vaccinated, due to the different mutations, such as Delta, Omicron, etc.

BUT, although vaccines are rigorously tested before release, there have been some horrendous incidences of newly released vaccines causing major health issues.

The “Cutter Incident” (1955): The Salk polio vaccine produced by Cutter laboratories actually contained the live poliovirus, resulting in permanent paralysis, even deaths, among not only vaccinated individuals, but also close contacts.

Swine Flu (1976): The large scale vaccinations in the USA resulted resulted in a high number of Guillain-Barré syndrome cases. Although now reportedly the only negative reaction to flu vaccine, and occurring so rarely as to be negligible, rigorous monitoring of the Flu vaccine for this potentially fatal disease is undertaken very year.

Source: National Library of medicine.

As a direct result from both of these incidents, the FDA "now requires extensive testing to evaluate the safety and efficacy of vaccines prior to licensure. After licensure, FDA requires ongoing lot-release testing and manufacturing facility inspections. Additionally, manufacturers are required to conduct post-licensure safety monitoring for their products and report to the FDA."
Source: National Library of Medicine.

So onto the most important question of all, and one which @mack341 rightly has major concerns about. Will all the recently developed COVID vaccines prove to be another Cutter/Swine Flu incident, or have the rigorous development measures taken been enough to ensure vaccine safety?

"Because of the high volume of use, coincidental adverse events including deaths, that are temporally associated with vaccination, do occur. When death occurs shortly following vaccination, loved ones and others might naturally question whether it was related to vaccination."
Source: World Health Organisation

Many instances of the COVID vaccine causing deaths are reported to VAERS, which is then taken as gospel by many people. However, "VAERS is a voluntary reporting system which accepts any submitted report of an adverse event without judging its clinical significance or whether it was caused by a vaccination."
Source: World Health Organisation.

To summarise: Is there really a major issue with the COVID vaccines that is steadily being exposed? Or are most cases due to misunderstanding the VAERS database? Or even - as stated by WHO - a natural tendency to associate deaths immediately after a vaccine to the vaccine itself?

Regrettably, at this point in time, it is impossible to make an informed judgement one way or another. In a few more years, when more information is available, there might prove to be a "Long Vaccine" issue alongside the "Long COVID" issue. Or not.


All any of us can do is to act according to our beliefs. And hopefully, we will all live to tell the tale.

EDIT: Appears as if I am steadily taking over VWM's role in producing wordy (rappinghood) posts.
 
Where does the '41' figure come from if you don't mind me asking?

I think most places stopped using the AZ, certainly for the demographic groups who seemed at risk of these fatal clots.

The point is not just to settle for anything (death from an illness is different from death due to a medicine) actually have some good benchmarks the vaccine must surpass for safety, effectiveness etc... Probably the flu vaccine's overall performance is what you'd want to match at least, and they've been around donkey's years.
the 41 figure comes from google and i realize how flawed it is but it's the only number i could find....even if the numbers were a thousand times higher than this (which i very highly doubt it but let's assume that's the case we're still talking 41 thousand deaths versus millions).

Regardless I didn't get an Astrazanica shot and got the MRNA vaccine instead which seems to be outperforming it anyways.

We're at a point where its obvious we're not stopping its spread anymore so jab or no jab everyone will get it...thankfully the virus seems to have mutated and become "milder" for most but that doesnt mean it isn't dangerous.

my biggest concern now (other than spreading it to a loved one) is the possible long term side effects. my dad is a long hauler and i can tell you I wouldnt want to have the same issues he's been having as I love food (he can't test or smell food anymore since he got Covid 6+ months ago).
 
Even though I'm the pickiest, most plain and boring eater you'd possibly ever meet (had to be bribed to try baked beans as a kid, which I liked, but don't eat butter , cheese, pizza, ketchup, salt, or pretty much anything you freaks of nature put on your burgers and hot dogs, to name a few things) I'd go insane not being able to taste or smell for months on end. Before I came down ill yesterday I found myself not wanting chicken because it smelt and tasted, err, too chicken-e. Almost as if I got an increase with my taste and smell.

My gutt tells me smoking (don't do it kids) might protect the lungs from covid. Perhaps the beautiful layer of tar prevents it from lodging there. Feck knows, but my bro smokes and while he didn't get the bug from around my area, he had it recently and he got the same symptons as I. The person I caught it from however, none smoker, came down with a cough and sore throat, followed by flu type symptoms, sniffing etc. not the shivers or headache we did. And I definately caught it from her..

Anyway(s), was ok for the afternoon but still not fully over it. Mild compared to the first evening but still occasionally getting small episodes of cold shivers and warm sweats.
 
"Flu viruses are constantly mutating, so the vaccine is updated annually based on researchers' best guess of which virus strains will be circulating among people in a given season."

"Several flu viruses are circulating all the time, which is why people may still get the flu despite being vaccinated since the vaccine is specific to one strain."

Source: World Health Organisation

Best guess, eh? So in effect, the flu vaccine we received this year is not the same as the flu vaccine from last year, or the year before, or even the year before that, and doesn't necessarily prevent infection after being vaccinated.

Sounds suspiciously similar to people still getting COVID after being vaccinated, due to the different mutations, such as Delta, Omicron, etc.

BUT, although vaccines are rigorously tested before release, there have been some horrendous incidences of newly released vaccines causing major health issues.

The “Cutter Incident” (1955): The Salk polio vaccine produced by Cutter laboratories actually contained the live poliovirus, resulting in permanent paralysis, even deaths, among not only vaccinated individuals, but also close contacts.

Swine Flu (1976): The large scale vaccinations in the USA resulted resulted in a high number of Guillain-Barré syndrome cases. Although now reportedly the only negative reaction to flu vaccine, and occurring so rarely as to be negligible, rigorous monitoring of the Flu vaccine for this potentially fatal disease is undertaken very year.

Source: National Library of medicine.

As a direct result from both of these incidents, the FDA "now requires extensive testing to evaluate the safety and efficacy of vaccines prior to licensure. After licensure, FDA requires ongoing lot-release testing and manufacturing facility inspections. Additionally, manufacturers are required to conduct post-licensure safety monitoring for their products and report to the FDA."
Source: National Library of Medicine.

So onto the most important question of all, and one which @mack341 rightly has major concerns about. Will all the recently developed COVID vaccines prove to be another Cutter/Swine Flu incident, or have the rigorous development measures taken been enough to ensure vaccine safety?

"Because of the high volume of use, coincidental adverse events including deaths, that are temporally associated with vaccination, do occur. When death occurs shortly following vaccination, loved ones and others might naturally question whether it was related to vaccination."
Source: World Health Organisation

Many instances of the COVID vaccine causing deaths are reported to VAERS, which is then taken as gospel by many people. However, "VAERS is a voluntary reporting system which accepts any submitted report of an adverse event without judging its clinical significance or whether it was caused by a vaccination."
Source: World Health Organisation.

To summarise: Is there really a major issue with the COVID vaccines that is steadily being exposed? Or are most cases due to misunderstanding the VAERS database? Or even - as stated by WHO - a natural tendency to associate deaths immediately after a vaccine to the vaccine itself?

Regrettably, at this point in time, it is impossible to make an informed judgement one way or another. In a few more years, when more information is available, there might prove to be a "Long Vaccine" issue alongside the "Long COVID" issue. Or not.


All any of us can do is to act according to our beliefs. And hopefully, we will all live to tell the tale.

EDIT: Appears as if I am steadily taking over VWM's role in producing wordy (rappinghood) posts.

I was going to add provided the strain is a good match but the overall point wouldn't change, I don't think there has been more than a few fatal reactions to the flu jab over 3 decades, since the vaers came in - I could be wrong there but sure I read that somewhere.

To date not one person/family has received compensation for a covid vaccine injury/death in the uk, even though there is a [old] compensation process for vaccine injury, it's not exactly near the top of the 'to do' list it seems.
 
I was going to add provided the strain is a good match but the overall point wouldn't change, I don't think there has been more than a few fatal reactions to the flu jab over 3 decades, since the vaers came in - I could be wrong there but sure I read that somewhere.
Being lazy, so I am not going to check for exact figures from the WHO, but I recall it being less than 1 death per x million vaccines, if even that.

Apparently, it is far more likely to actually die from the Flu than it is from the Flu vaccine, as the Flu can still cause high death rates in many countries. Must admit, I was quite surprised to read that, probably because I have always assumed the Flu to be no more than sniffles, aching bones and a bit of a temperature..
 
Being lazy, so I am not going to check for exact figures from the WHO, but I recall it being less than 1 death per x million vaccines, if even that.

Apparently, it is far more likely to actually die from the Flu than it is from the Flu vaccine, as the Flu can still cause high death rates in many countries. Must admit, I was quite surprised to read that, probably because I have always assumed the Flu to be no more than sniffles, aching bones and a bit of a temperature..
Oh believe me, the flu is HORRENDOUS. I’ve had it twice, once in Feb 2007 and again in Sept 2009 (swine flu).

The first one knocked me completely off my feet for a week solid. I couldn’t eat, couldn’t keep my head up, couldn’t get up to go the toilet, nothing. I spent most of my time either asleep or wishing that the grim reaper would take me…I felt THAT ill.

Second time wasn’t quite as bad. Still felt utterly lousy but was prescribed tamiflu pretty promptly which cut recuperation time.
 
I think some flu strains are worse than others, the term 'man flu' has probably undermined fear of real flu. My worst ever illness to date was flu, waves of nausea, headaches and fever for a week. As Mr Slot5 said, you want to die, and the time goes so slow.

They used to say migrating birds bring the flu here from the far east, and it felt like an illness from that region if that makes sense, where the temperature etc and conditions create more serious viruses than a typical uk cold.
 
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The Medical world was left stunned today when a local brodude, a middle-age guy known as Adam the Addict, disclosed the cure to Covid-19.

Health authorities were seen scrambling to administer Cuban cigars to the elderly, and talks ongoing as to whether give under-12s Red Stripe or Lambert & Butler.

A minister stated: "We are now seeing the tide turn in our fight against Covid, and I'd urge those not balls-deep in smoking to consider doing so. We're all in this together. And if running low on doses, blow-backs are encouraged, especially amongst the 18-35 age group. Let's beat this thing!

Hands > Face > Toke"
 
They told you the 3 jabs (not a vaccine) would stop you catching and stop the spread of the "killer pandemic" all 100% disinfomation, so when are they all arrested?

..and yet they now want babies and 5 year olds etc jabbed?!?!?!?! yet they know of side effects too...

these WEF leaders are the biggest criminals in history and the covid farce is the biggest transfer of wealth with that just the first chapter, now fuel and energy...food shortage and power cuts to come next, all planned of course.

oh yes and I never had one jab, got "covid" just like usual cold/flu yet I see the millions saying thank god i got the jabs or i would have been dead....haha gullible idiots.
 
They told you the 3 jabs (not a vaccine) would stop you catching and stop the spread of the "killer pandemic" all 100% disinfomation, so when are they all arrested?

..and yet they now want babies and 5 year olds etc jabbed?!?!?!?! yet they know of side effects too...

these WEF leaders are the biggest criminals in history and the covid farce is the biggest transfer of wealth with that just the first chapter, now fuel and energy...food shortage and power cuts to come next, all planned of course.

oh yes and I never had one jab, got "covid" just like usual cold/flu yet I see the millions saying thank god i got the jabs or i would have been dead....haha gullible idiots.

I don't think anybody said that the vaccines would stop you getting Covid. It was always said that it hopes to reduce the effects of it
 
Lest we forget the CDP, those purveyors of comedy and fear-mongering, approving the vaccination of 6-month olds and above with the Moderna vaccine!

.....a tool, like the first inoculations for adults, for restoring their lives to a sense of normalcy. During a public comment period for the hearing Friday, parents shared stories of kids who haven’t been able to visit grandparents or spoke aspirationally about doing basic things they read about in books, like going to the aquarium....:laugh:

F*** off. Leave the kids alone
 
I don't think anybody said that the vaccines would stop you getting Covid. It was always said that it hopes to reduce the effects of it
They did in spring 2021, certainly the US President Biden, the cdc lady iirc, tv presenters etc.. They are not saying it now obviously

Edit:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday walked back controversial comments made by its director, Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky, suggesting that people who are vaccinated against the coronavirus never become infected or transmit the virus to others.

In a television interview with MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, Dr. Walensky referred to data published by the C.D.C. showing that one dose of the Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 80 percent effective at preventing infection, and two doses were 90 percent effective.

That certainly suggested that transmission from vaccinated people might be unlikely, but Dr. Walensky’s comments hinted that protection was complete. “Our data from the C.D.C. today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick,” she said. “And that it’s not just in the clinical trials, it’s also in real-world data.
 
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Interesting article, that "may" explain the reason that vaccinated people tend to catch covid more than the unjabbed.

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In my circle of family and friends (30), every single person jabbed has had covid at least once(all 20), most twice(14), two have had it 3 times and one four times.

Those not jabbed (10) have either had covid once (6), or not had it at all (4).

And those who declined the jab, I can with certainty say also ignored social distancing/LD rules way more than those jabbed.

This article sort of saying similar, and if they are correct it doesnt look good to me.

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Im not saying they are correct, but they are worthy of discussion by our country's health experts and journalists, but they seem to dismiss and ignore anything unfavourable about the jabs, and scream "disinformation" "antivaxxer"
 
Interesting article, that "may" explain the reason that vaccinated people tend to catch covid more than the unjabbed.

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In my circle of family and friends (30), every single person jabbed has had covid at least once(all 20), most twice(14), two have had it 3 times and one four times.

Those not jabbed (10) have either had covid once (6), or not had it at all (4).

And those who declined the jab, I can with certainty say also ignored social distancing/LD rules way more than those jabbed.

This article sort of saying similar, and if they are correct it doesnt look good to me.

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Im not saying they are correct, but they are worthy of discussion by our country's health experts and journalists, but they seem to dismiss and ignore anything unfavourable about the jabs, and scream "disinformation" "antivaxxer"

I had two jabs and so had my wife. Neither of us have caught the Covid virus.
 
Interesting article, that "may" explain the reason that vaccinated people tend to catch covid more than the unjabbed.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


In my circle of family and friends (30), every single person jabbed has had covid at least once(all 20), most twice(14), two have had it 3 times and one four times.

Those not jabbed (10) have either had covid once (6), or not had it at all (4).

And those who declined the jab, I can with certainty say also ignored social distancing/LD rules way more than those jabbed.

This article sort of saying similar, and if they are correct it doesnt look good to me.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Im not saying they are correct, but they are worthy of discussion by our country's health experts and journalists, but they seem to dismiss and ignore anything unfavourable about the jabs, and scream "disinformation" "antivaxxer"

A pic from that same substack but a different article. IMO Big pharma prefers the 'subscription model', much more profitable if the 'protection' has to be obtained every 6-12 months, perhaps it was impossible for them to create a 1 jab lifetime immunity but I doubt they'd be looking hard in that direction in the first place from a profitability/business point of view

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IMO Big pharma prefers the 'subscription model', much more profitable if the 'protection' has to be obtained every 6-12 months, perhaps it was impossible for them to create a 1 jab lifetime immunity but I doubt they'd be looking hard in that direction in the first place from a profitability/business point of view
Depends on whether it is a "live" vaccine or an inactivated one.

Some "Live" vaccines can offer lifetime protection, whereas others (measles, mumps, chickenpox) require a second dose, albeit within a short timeframe.

"Inactivated" vaccines usually require ongoing doses every ten years or so, e.g. tetanus, yellow fever. However others, such as flu vaccinations, are required annually.

Again, who knows how the COVID vaccines will eventually be classified, but until it stops mutating, I have a horrible feeling we are going to be human pincushions for a long time to come.

Note: With the Yellow Fever vaccine, usually one shot is enough to give lifelong protection, unless going into affected areas regularly, then every ten years is recommended. And yes, I have personal experience of receiving this vaccine 3 times over 25 years. All I can say is...I am not scared of needles in any way, shape or form, but the size of the needle used to give the Yellow Fever vaccine puts the fear of God into me, as it is BIG!
 
I don't think anybody said that the vaccines would stop you getting Covid. It was always said that it hopes to reduce the effects of it
omfg its exactly what they said! from Biden to Boris, Macron to Trudeaux, all the build back better WEF bullshitters, changed their tune months after when obv people were seeing it was rubbish, to you wont get the effects as bad, hahah thats not a vaccine!
 
I remember the initial Covid response by our graph-peddling experts and leaders, where the message was most certainly one of "One and you're done", whereby people could have it administered and live life to the fullest.

I think a lot of people went under that premise and soon realized that that was indeed not the case. There's also a large contingent that'd had the initial shot and booster and decided that's where to draw the line, never mind the appointments pencilled in for future 'boosters'
 
I remember the initial Covid response by our graph-peddling experts and leaders, where the message was most certainly one of "One and you're done", whereby people could have it administered and live life to the fullest.

I think a lot of people went under that premise and soon realized that that was indeed not the case. There's also a large contingent that'd had the initial shot and booster and decided that's where to draw the line, never mind the appointments pencilled in for future 'boosters'
This was a new virus and people were learning as we went....and are still learning to this day as it mutates and as we learn more about long covid. I wouldn't be shocked if we learned something new in 5 year's time but hopefully by then people won't care because it's impact will be negligible
 

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