Convincing Webmasters to Advertise responsibly

[Simmo!]

Maybe it is obvious for you to expect doing such a homework, but in case somebody is a newcomer (especially in case he/she is a newcomer on using the internet too), they will hardly think about doing a search on which casinoi is honest or not. They simply don't think of this.

Actually I'm not so sure on that. Let's say you want an iPhone and you find Bodgitt & Scarper have one for $50 less than Amazon. You've never heard of them but would you just go and put your credit card in, or would you check they were OK first?

I think most people would check, especially with an online casino. However, I think the problem with newbies is that they don't understand the concept of a casino bonus. They just see the words "free money" and their hungry alter-ego kicks in licking it's lips at a free lunch. So they think, sod the research...let's eat!

 

[GamTrak]

This is soo sooo wrong!

Whatever beef we have with each other does not mean we are allowed to hang someone out to dry.

I am surprised at CM. You know dam well nothing good will come from this thread. Gamtrak has been beat up here over and over. She said she would not promote them anymore!

Robin, you removed GW. If you didn't I can't help you!

Yep, I sure did remove them!

 

[GamTrak]

IMHO, one of the reasons for the extra attention to Gamtrak's relationship with the Virtual Group is because of her attitude in this thread, beginning with post #33 and carrying on for quite a few posts after that one. Post 44 was a real mind blower! It left a bitter taste in many peoples' mouths.




https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/hello.31036/

Are you STILL stalking my $&#*@&^ posts after 8 years? WTF??? Listen up! Leave me alone!

 

[GamTrak]

I had plum forgot about that one.

I'm sure you have forgotten about ALOT of crap! Bryan, you need to research this piece of trash from her ezboard/oyster/p4k days & stop egging her on!

 

[Pinababy69]

this piece of trash

Robin, you are way out of line with that comment. Like I said in my original post, I see no reason to single you out with anything directed at you solely....you are/were merely one webmaster who promoted Virtual. But using terminology such as what's highlighted above is over the top, regardless of past history.

 

[Sassy1]

Are you STILL stalking my $&#*@&^ posts after 8 years? WTF??? Listen up *********! Leave me alone!

I'm an active member here and 98% of my posts have nothing to do with you.

Can a mod please remove my real name from those posts? Gamtrak is well aware that I do not post my private information, like my real name, yet she continues to do so here and at another site she has been stalking me at and each time a moderator has to remove the private information.

 

[The Dude]

I'm sure you have forgotten about ALOT of crap! Bryan, you need to research this piece of trash from her ezboard/oyster/p4k days & stop egging her on!

Hi Gamtrak,

No, I have not forgotten about "ALOT" - but as a reminder, please do not forget about our flaming policy. If you value your membership at Casinomeister, that is.

Sassy1 had only pointed out something I had clearly forgotten about, that I had called you out on promoting GW properties months ago.

The funny thing is, I remember you sitting in on one of my presentations "Concerns of Portal Operators in a Tumultuous Business Environment" two years ago in London. You were clearly receptive to the section on Business Ethics and how to avoid promoting rogue casinos. I really thought that I had "reached" you, I even took a liking to you, and we met up later for the cab ride to the CAP awards (remember?). Maybe it's you who has forgotten "ALOT".

I could tell you stories about the virtual group that would make your head spin and you'd probably never want to venture south of the border again. Seriously - some really nasty stuff. I have no idea why you have chosen to affiliate yourself with these guys. There are so many more deserving casinos out there - I am really disappointed that what I told you in London 2008 had apparently no meaning to you.

But since you seemed to have dropped GW, perhaps this is water under the bridge. I just hope that when choosing a casino group to promote, you'll use a bit more discretion and choose the casinos that are not screwing people over. I don't like seeing you under attack since I think you're a decent person.

And to comment on your comment at GPWA - I have never proclaimed to be "godlike". I'm just trying to provide you with enough information so that you can make some good business decisions. I'm here to give you guidance, not screw you over.

 

[dominique]

Ok, in another thread, the reason why Gamtrak was allowing these guys on her site came out, and I am not surprised at all.

I had mentioned that one reason that some seasoned affiliates allow this group on their site is that they have been approached with a lot of promises. The group wants to redeem itself, it was under bad management and made many mistakes, but now it is under good management and all players will be taken care of diligently and immediately. They will personally see to it that players get wonderful treatment and the affiliate can ask to have issues settled right away at any time. To please, please give them that second chance, that they will do right by you and your players, that they want to rehabilitate their name and need your help. And so on and so on.

I am sure Bryan has heard this song and dance, as I have repeatedly. If you remember JTodd going to Costa Rica to negotiate the proper payment of all players, that ended up a bust and I assume was based on the same thing.

Gamtrak may be a bit short of temper and have an issue with Sissy that dates years back (you guys really need to let it go!!!) but I have met her repeatedly and she is a nice lady who means well. She believed the promises made to her. If a player had come to her and told her of mistreatment, I am positive she would have done her darndest to fix it.

Gamtrak and I do not see eye to eye on a variety of issues, we are not best friends and we don't usually present a united front, quite the opposite. But I do understand how this group can wear you down to where you want to help and make things better for all. It takes a lot of resilience and sometimes rudeness to resist, and I guess a bit of callousness too. The way these conversations go, you want to believe them. You want to fix things. You want to set it all right.

That's the way it is presented. Like I said, I am quite sure Bryan has heard all this first hand also.

 

[nitro]

However, I think the problem with newbies is that they don't understand the concept of a casino bonus.

I think the problem with casinos is that they don't understand the concept of a newbie.

 

[The Dude]

I think the problem with casinos is that they don't understand the concept of a newbie.

Good point.

Perhaps many new casinos assume that the players they get are seasoned advantage players, so they design bonuses to ensure a profit for the casino.

And then comes Joe Blow who like the free money thing regardless.

 

[triple777s]

I have one more thing to say....

Everyone seems to think "Newbies" to the gaming world are naive and stupid or to trusting and its an affiliates job to guide them...

Well i was also a Newbie gambler at one time...as i am sure alot of you were....and i did not trust anyone...period....I was to scared to deposit so at first it was all free chips for me...

Then when i started to deposit, I DID MY RESEARCH....as i am almost positive most new gamblers will do when its time to deposit there own money.....so to say its an affiliate responsibility to me is unfair and unreasonable

 

[Sassy1]

Then when i started to deposit, I DID MY RESEARCH....as i am almost positive most new gamblers will do when its time to deposit there own money.....so to say its an affiliate responsibility to me is unfair and unreasonable

I think being "positive that most new gamblers do their research first" is a strong statement. I think it probably has to do with how trusting or naive a person is. When I first started gambling online, I thought nothing of depositing my money prior to doing research. A friend I was visiting had deposited money in an online casino and let me play with some of his funds. It was great fun so when I got home I created an account and deposited also. I had no idea there were any websites PERIOD that discussed good and bad places to play. I didn't know about affiliates. When I grew bored with that casino and tried to find other places to play, I bumped into an ezboard gambling site. It was mostly a banner farm with contests. I merrily clicked away thinking nothing of it. It wasn't until I hit something at one of the casinos and wanted to cash out did I figure out it wasn't just like playing at a land casino. I thought I could just click on withdrawal and my money would be back on my credit card that day or the next. I was shocked I needed to fax documents. I was shocked I had to accomplish a play through. I was shocked they took a fee for my winnings or made me wait for my money. It wasn't until I was burned by a casino that I started to do research. I had no idea when I clicked on the banners at gambling sites they were getting revenue from my clicks. There is a ton I didn't know, UNTIL I GOT BURNED, and I'm a fairly intelligent individual!

I'm guessing there are others out there like me who were uninformed and trusting and it took getting hurt to begin the research efforts.

 

[Pinababy69]

I think being "positive that most new gamblers do their research first" is a strong statement. I think it probably has to do with how trusting or naive a person is. When I first started gambling online, I thought nothing of depositing my money prior to doing research. A friend I was visiting had deposited money in an online casino and let me play with some of his funds. It was great fun so when I got home I created an account and deposited also. I had no idea there were any websites PERIOD that discussed good and bad places to play. I didn't know about affiliates. When I grew bored with that casino and tried to find other places to play, I bumped into an ezboard gambling site. It was mostly a banner farm with contests. I merrily clicked away thinking nothing of it. It wasn't until I hit something at one of the casinos and wanted to cash out did I figure out it wasn't just like playing at a land casino. I thought I could just click on withdrawal and my money would be back on my credit card that day or the next. I was shocked I needed to fax documents. I was shocked I had to accomplish a play through. I was shocked they took a fee for my winnings or made me wait for my money. It wasn't until I was burned by a casino that I started to do research. I had no idea when I clicked on the banners at gambling sites they were getting revenue from my clicks. There is a ton I didn't know, UNTIL I GOT BURNED, and I'm a fairly intelligent individual!

I'm guessing there are others out there like me who were uninformed and trusting and it took getting hurt to begin the research efforts.

Spot on the money Sassy!! I could have written almost that exactly...as my own experience when I first discovered online gaming...the EZBoards, all of it. And I really think that IS the true experience of most first time gamblers. Especially when you get these no deposit freebies shoved in your face right off the bat. You don't stop to think I'd better do research on it...you just take it (as a newbie I mean). I remember when I first found CM...what a totally different world even from EZBoard...the dozens of banners and contests flashing in your face. I was amazed there was actually a place that was more concerned with the truth...than with pimping casinos for profit. Well...CM and ECC.

Ahhh...the good old days.

 

[Sassy1]

I remember when I first found CM...what a totally different world even from EZBoard...the dozens of banners and contests flashing in your face. I was amazed there was actually a place that was more concerned with the truth...than with pimping casinos for profit. Well...CM and ECC.

Ahhh...the good old days.

I agree completely Pina! After the casinos burned us and caused us to become angry and do our research, we soon found out that many of those Ezboards were just as unscrupulous and burned us, causing more research which landed us at places like Casinomeister's. This place was quite a different world from the Ezboard banner farms that didn't help educate us and only wanted us to click away so they could quit their day jobs and be full-time webmasters of those banner farms.

When I eventually figured out our clicks generated revenue, I was shocked. I wouldn't have really minded my clicks generating income for the board owners had they provided a service for my click, but most of the Ezboards I saw did not provide a service (i.e. education) like Casinomeister does.

So, newbies out there! Don't click on banners blindly. Make sure the webmaster earns your clicks by providing a service to you, like helping you avoid rogue casinos, offering to help when you have payout problems, etc.

 

[dominique]

I stumbled in to gaming by coincidence - I had a small site with one page of free games I had gathered online. Just any game. That page of free games still exists on the site, with the same ole games. And sometimes I play them still. Among them was a set of casino games to play for free that came from an affiliate program, but at the time I had no idea what an affiliate program was, I just searched free games and found those. I never bothered to read the site, I just signed up and thought they were one of many sites giving away free games. Then after a while I got a check in the mail and figured it all out after a bit.

So I went looking for casinos and affiliate sites to see what it was all about.

What I found first was a site called pig-something-or-other.

It was a banner farm, but at least it had the banners ordered by software.

Just the software name and a dozen banners under it. So I played my way through the softwares to see what I liked, I played purely BJ back then.

Then I started thinking it would be nice to have some more info and started adding to my site, things that I found out or learned, some strategies for BJ and the like.

I still had no idea about rogues and back then a couple could be found on my site. I played there myself without issues, so I figured they must be ok.

It's been a learning process ever since and I have learened that it is very important to continuously research, it's never ever done, things change all the time.

Of course there is no comparison between the info you can find online now and what was there back then. Casinomeister was there then, but it took me some time to find my way in here.

So, I was a fool on all counts, a fool as a player and a fool as an affiliate. Live and learn.

 

[Sassy1]

Thanks Dom, it is interesting to read all of the stories about 'back then' and I agree, times sure were different then. I'll bet some of those early banner farms were big cash cows and maybe still are from our clicks 8-10 years ago. Had I known then that every time I deposited the board owners whose affiliate tag it was linked to got some money, I would have done a lot more research as to where I clicked.

I saw so many things that turned me off. Contest cheating (board owners signing up fake names and winning their own contests), rigged contests, etc. And then to top it off, Ezboard had those treasure chests for members to click on to help pay board costs and many of us did that thinking those poor board owners that were giving us that gambling forum experience at their own expense, even maybe at a loss, we helped pay those fees not knowing at the time the board owners were already getting revenue from us from having clicked on their banners and should have paid their own board fees with that revenue.

 

[WagerWitch]

Thanks Dom, it is interesting to read all of the stories about 'back then' and I agree, times sure were different then. I'll bet some of those early banner farms were big cash cows and maybe still are from our clicks 8-10 years ago. Had I known then that every time I deposited the board owners whose affiliate tag it was linked to got some money, I would have done a lot more research as to where I clicked.

I saw so many things that turned me off. Contest cheating (board owners signing up fake names and winning their own contests), rigged contests, etc. And then to top it off, Ezboard had those treasure chests for members to click on to help pay board costs and many of us did that thinking those poor board owners that were giving us that gambling forum experience at their own expense, even maybe at a loss, we helped pay those fees not knowing at the time the board owners were already getting revenue from us from having clicked on their banners and should have paid their own board fees with that revenue.

NO KIDDING.... No freaking kidding.


Edited to add: There were some good boards out there - and some of them WERE honest - and some of them had decent folks - so hate to lump them all together. BUT - BUT --- You need to know - there were some REALLY FREAKING bad bad bad ones.... And I know what you speak of... LOL!

 

[AussieDave]

there were some REALLY FREAKING bad bad bad ones

Could not resist - P4K!

The good ol days, hey

What I found first was a site called pig-something-or-other.

Think you mean the Pig Post...oink oink...lol



Cheers



Dave

 

[cameronlove4]

Hi,

I don't wanna be a part of this fight but still I can't resist myself in saying that shameless advertising is not a good task In fact, in the online world, shameless advertising is known as Spam. So, please don't spam the board.

Thanks,
Cameron

 

[AussieDave]

shameless advertising is known as Spam. So, please don't spam the board.

You've lost me with the purpose of this statement

Care to explain?


Cheers



Dave

 

[TOC]

JMO- The entire thread is nothing more than someone that lost $250.00 because a casino went rouge or casino group and now their blaming the affiliate. Come on.. Yes I do think that affiliates should keep up with who they advertise but FBI and ISP reporting, give me a break. Go after the online casino that you feel ripped you off and ask the affiliate to stop advertising them before you go crazy inside a forum!! Now if the affiliate doesn't stop I see your point but it's the casino that ripped you off and not the affiliate, correct? I'm beginning to wonder if this site should be for Players only, not affiliates or casino's. I've had to defend myself many times and I have an accredited casino on my affiliate site so I feel for the ones advertising rouge casino's and maybe without knowledge. BTW- It takes time to delete casino's and links posted on the Internet, it's not a overnight thing. I also see abuse to online casino management trying to help players, or explain procedure all the time and they're abused by many members. Again I think CasinoMeister should be a player site and affiliates and casino's should move on because it's a losing battle, JMP. Personally I'm out of here, get a grip people.. This thread has opened my eyes, BYE!!:

 

[jetset]

Whilst it is true that on occasion some - and a minority imo - of the members here can go a little OTT, I believe your own reaction is excessive and that you should reconsider your decision to depart in favour of staying on, TOC.

In my opinion Casinomeister is all about balance, and to achieve that we need to have a diverse number of opinions on a range of issues that are of common interest. That way we get other perspectives and valuable information from different sides of a debate or discussion.

Sometimes affiliates are dominant in a particular conversation and players might be forgiven for thinking that the forum has been taken over by that sector; on other issues the dominant parties in a conversation may belong to another interest group...but all are welcome to participate provided they behave like adults.

Marching off in a huff because you perceive incorrectly that affiliates are reviled here is not the way to go.

 

[GamTrak]

I have to disagree with you on this one jetset. TOC is EXACTLY on the money with that statement.

The thugs and thugetts are allowed to do as they will while I get my PM priviledges taken because I ask someone to leave me the hell alone? Let some of this stuff happen to YOU or those "thanking" you and your experience at Casinomeister would be much different!

They even spit threads and place your brand name in the subject in order to sit back watch and even participate in the attack (which Bryan did with Sassy)! That was some Bull$shit!

I've already been banned for 7 days in the past while defending myself during the CAP attack and at this rate they will have to 'Color me Red' soon because I won't kiss any butt as well speak my mind at ALL times!

He is quick to warn some check here where I'm accused of hijacking a thread! LOL Why not split it out (like this thread) and leave it be?

 

[bb28]

JMO- The entire thread is nothing more than someone that lost $250.00 because a casino went rouge or casino group and now their blaming the affiliate. Come on.. Yes I do think that affiliates should keep up with who they advertise but FBI and ISP reporting, give me a break. Go after the online casino that you feel ripped you off and ask the affiliate to stop advertising them before you go crazy inside a forum!! Now if the affiliate doesn't stop I see your point but it's the casino that ripped you off and not the affiliate, correct? I'm beginning to wonder if this site should be for Players only, not affiliates or casino's. I've had to defend myself many times and I have an accredited casino on my affiliate site so I feel for the ones advertising rouge casino's and maybe without knowledge. BTW- It takes time to delete casino's and links posted on the Internet, it's not a overnight thing. I also see abuse to online casino management trying to help players, or explain procedure all the time and they're abused by many members. Again I think CasinoMeister should be a player site and affiliates and casino's should move on because it's a losing battle, JMP. Personally I'm out of here, get a grip people.. This thread has opened my eyes, BYE!!:

Are you saying you are going to get a balanced view at sites that are geared toward the affiliates and the casino reps?

Things do get a bit unbalanced here at times but if you take the time to read all the responses instead of just the ones you feel are bashing what ever particular side you are leaning on, you would see that things are usually brought into check pretty quickly. Was the original poster over the top......yes, but that doesn't negate all the rest of it, just because you didn't like it.

Perhaps you need to get a grip on reality and try to see things from both sides instead of seeing it as personal attack on your livelihood. There might be a day down the road when players become a lot more picky about just who their affiliates are.

 

[bb28]

I have to disagree with you on this one jetset. TOC is EXACTLY on the money with that statement.

The thugs and thugetts are allowed to do as they will while I get my PM priviledges taken because I ask someone to leave me the hell alone? Let some of this stuff happen to YOU or those "thanking" you and your experience at Casinomeister would be much different!

They even spit threads and place your brand name in the subject in order to sit back watch and even participate in the attack (which Bryan did with Sassy)! That was some Bull$shit!

I've already been banned for 7 days in the past while defending myself during the CAP attack and at this rate they will have to 'Color me Red' soon because I won't kiss any butt as well speak my mind at ALL times!

He is quick to warn some check here where I'm accused of hijacking a thread! LOL Why not split it out (like this thread) and leave it be?

GamTrak.......I don't know you, hardly know anything about you other than what I've seen you post here at CM. You come across as arrogant, defensive and downright mean to someone who dares disagree with your view of things. Your postings here say volumes about you, like it or not and it ain't a pretty picture.

 

[AussieDave]

Let some of this stuff happen to YOU or those "thanking" you and your experience at Casinomeister would be much different!

You really are unbelievable.

You take total umbrage by throwing unsubstituted accusations at me personally at the GPWA, over a post that had no malice directed nor remotely aimed at you.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

No apology of course. That only becomes another issue for you if you feel slighted. Where the broken victim record is played over and over again

Now I find you here, taking another pot shot at me. All because I agree and thanked jetset who holds a similar opinion.

What gets me though and makes your accusations even less plausible, is Bryan (CM) was the first person who advised you to Trademark the GamTrak brand. And went on to encourage you further to follow his suggestion.

Jetset was one of he peeps to suggest a class action. He even posted some help and suggestions on that for you too.

Hell I stuck up for you, and coped a right grilling over the AU fiasco, which all came to head because of that clip joint casino (Cool Cat) you were promoting.

But for what ever reason, you throw all this help to curb. You dish people, make wild accusations and basically piss people off to no extent.

Then after you've done all this, and not even bothering to apologise to anyone for GETTING IT WRONG, you then turnaround and accuse people of not giving you a fair go...Sheesh

The thugs and thugetts

The only bully boy, gangster like actions I witness are coming out of your venomous cake hole, when someone doesn't agree with you.

Even here you have a go at bonusstreak about a post she made here at CM

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I'm done helping you.

As of now your on my ignore list. Here, at the GPWA and anywhere else we co-exist. Because frankly IMHO you do more harm to affiliates and their causes than any other issue I've ever seen.



Dave

 

[jetset]

I have to disagree with you on this one jetset. TOC is EXACTLY on the money with that statement.

The thugs and thugetts are allowed to do as they will while I get my PM priviledges taken because I ask someone to leave me the hell alone? Let some of this stuff happen to YOU or those "thanking" you and your experience at Casinomeister would be much different!

They even spit threads and place your brand name in the subject in order to sit back watch and even participate in the attack (which Bryan did with Sassy)! That was some Bull$shit!

I've already been banned for 7 days in the past while defending myself during the CAP attack and at this rate they will have to 'Color me Red' soon because I won't kiss any butt as well speak my mind at ALL times!

He is quick to warn some check here where I'm accused of hijacking a thread! LOL Why not split it out (like this thread) and leave it be?

Gamtrak, my comments on why balance is important on this forum and how we might achieve it were of a general nature, yet you have managed to divert them into a personal grumble on what you perceive to be personal nastiness directed at you by our host and other forum members.

I don't see that, I'm afraid.

I'll say it again: affiliates, the same as anyone else here, make their own posting reputations by the manner in which they conduct themselves and the value of their contributions; they are treated no better - or worse - than other members and polite, useful content in their posts is always welcome.

 

[The Dude]

Too damn annoying

Well, enough is enough. I've shown Robin the door because she's just too damn annoying.

I have assisted this woman a number of times - more recently a PAB where an affiliate payment had gone missing. Max and I solved this problem - and we received not even a thank you.

But that's par for the course with this lady.

She's a drama queen. She tends to over dramatize most everything she involves herself with; most recently the GP fiasco. Even though GP is in the rogue section - even though I have warned players and webmasters about GP's effed up management for years - she attacks me because I'm not bailing affiliates out of their mess:

This part of the article is priceless and very telling when it comes to just how much 'help' Bailey will be for affiliates!

I thought casinomeister was stepping his foot in the 'affiliate' ring with his webmaster section blah blah blah.

I guess because Grand Prive was on the CasinoGod's table/scroll for years we are banished to ScrewYouVille! He is clearly on some bull$hit as well as the others!

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

For Robin's information: the webmaster section of the forum is almost as old as the GPWA itself. I don't know what "ring" she's implying I'm stepping into. And what more are affiliates expecting me to do? Perform my own audit?

Sheesh! This is one of the reasons I hate dealing with affiliate issues, too many self-serving affiliates who will only start barking when they don't get paid. They send players off to the slaughter-house, that's fine for them - the players can get screwed all they want. That's cool. But if that affy check doesn't come in - whoa! let's have a public hissy fit!

Perhaps she'd feel more comfortable as a permanent guest of the Jerry Springer show.

As for me, I've had enough of her childish rants. Bye Robin.

 

[AussieDave]

Well, enough is enough. I've shown Robin the door because she's just too damn annoying.

On par with that squeak in a car you can never find but ends up annoying the begebbers out of you every time you drive it.

Thanks CM you've saved more that a few peoples sanity with that call



Cheers



Dave

 

[suzecat]

As for me, I've had enough of her childish rants. Bye Robin.

Thank you BB! Why did it take so long? oke: