[CLOSED] golden tiger withholds money, egocra agrees, CM ignores

[vinylweatherman]

While this lady seems less than honest, the same can be said of Casino Rewards. If Casino Rewards had conducted themselves better in the past, it would be harder to side with a player who appears and claims they have been screwed over.
4000 from the Golden Tiger bonus is easily achieved on the 3 card poker game, I have done it many times because of the streaky nature of the pair+ game. A bet of around 30 to 50 would be enough to ride a decent streak up to 4000 from the 750 bankroll from the SUB - it would also demolish WR pretty quickly too as table pokers are usually weighted 50%.

I can believe that support may have had trouble contacting this player, but when they were given a number, and time to call, did they call when they were told they could, or did they expect this lady to wait by the phone 24/7 until they could be bothered to try the number?

The simplest solution would be for this player to call them and say "I am in now, call me back for verification". They should then call back the number they have, and check it is her. She should make her outbound call from this same number too, they would be suspicious if she didn't.

As for giving casinos landline numbers, it CAN be a problem if other members of the household do not know you play online casinos, and one of these other members happens to take the call. There have been complaints of this in the forum. There is also reliable indication that casinos are careless on occasion with our details that we give them. I receive spam from Casino Rewards, and they have admitted that it comes from "them" in the form of their marketing arm. This has to be a third party, as I am invited to join casinos with the SUB that I already am a member of, and am addressed by name. I have also received postal promotions from a third party for "spcasino", (a Spin Palace redirect), so yet again a casino has passed on my postal details to a marketing company.
The fears that our details will leak outside the casino are real, and advice to give a "different" phone number has been given for some while, as "real" phone numbers can also be sold to telemarketing companies, and I know my phone number has been sold to foreign entities, quite possibly sold by parties that casinos have passed it to. They ignore ALL "do not call" laws in the UK, and being foreign, there is no protection from being scammed by them.

I only ever give my main phone number to reputable casinos, and for others I give a second line that comes bundled with my cable service that I never use because it is far more expensive. It is, however, a "real" number assigned to me, and is therefore NOT giving "false information".
I NEVER EVER give false name and address details, this is one risk that CANNOT be avoided if you want to get paid. Postal "junk" is less irritating than phone calls, as I can ignore it at my leisure, rather than having to respond in case it is an important call.

 

[same_old]

Don't get me started on telemarketers.

 

[sandylady]

hi,

just wanted to answer few questions raised here.

first, the phone number I gave the casino is not a false one. It is a number I just do not use often.

second, I told ecogra (the casino ignores my emails) that 7pm - 10pm GMT is the best time to call and so far I've been waiting for almost a month for the casino to contact me but they didn't.

third, I asked ecogra for the rewards group's phone number, maybe I can contact them. they didn't provide me with such a number.

thanks.

 

[spearmaster]

first, the phone number I gave the casino is not a false one. It is a number I just do not use often.

Didn't mean to imply that you were using a false number - what I was trying to point out is that a cell phone number is easily obtained and discarded and harder to track down - a land line is not.

Thus, for someone who intended to play with multiple accounts, or else hacked into someone else's account, it would be quite easy for them to provide a cell phone number.

Do remember that this is for the player's protection as well.

 

[spearmaster]

maybe its just this younger generation that does not subscribe to the old ways...

Are you meaning to imply that Meister and I are old???



Just teasing. The point is somewhat valid - but again, most people I know have a land line whether they are living with family or on their own. While using a cell phone is way more convenient, it is also less secure, especially when you can now get sim cards without registration as long as they are prepaid.

 

[maxd]

first, the phone number I gave the casino is not a false one. ...

second, I told ecogra (the casino ignores my emails) that 7pm - 10pm GMT is the best time to call ....

No offense but you keep saying the same things over and over, seemingly ignoring our attempts to tell you how that is insufficient to achieve any progress in your case, never mind a resolution. This is rather odd behaviour for someone who claims that all they want is to get their money.

Now I'm not saying that you are or are not on the up and up, but I am saying that you're making it virtually impossible for anyone to help you especially since the casino _and_ eCOGRA say they have reason to suspect you.

Normally, in that circumstance you would have to cooperate 100% with the casino and go out of your way to establish your legitimacy in order to have any reasonable hope of getting paid. As I've said you are not doing that, and repeating your "I'm only accepting calls between 7 and 10 ... I don't give out my home number" business is never going to help the situation. At this point YOU are the primary obstacle to any progress ever happening, in spite of everyone's attempts to explain to you what you need to do to help yourself.

There's no doubt that your situation is regrettable, especially if your claims are true, but you're not doing a thing to help yourself and because of the casino's evidence against you this makes your situation much much worse.

If you won't do what the casino asks of you -- and yes that would mean giving them your land line number and being available outside of your preferred hours -- then how can you possibly expect anyone else to do it for you? Your behaviour is not that of someone who is working hard to get their money, it is rather more like someone who wants other people to work hard to get you your money. Under the circumstances even you must see that that is highly suspect.

FWIW, I can't say I blame the casino for their ruling against you because you are, in affect, wasting everyone's time with your refusal to cooperate and make the necessary efforts. At this point I don't see what we can possibly do to help you any further. Case closed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, perhaps this lady actually WORKS for a living, and it is therefore perfectly reasonable to require the casino to call her when she is at home, assuming this "rarely used" number is indeed her home landline, whereas she mostly uses her mobile phone during the day.

IF the casino has not been arsed to even TRY to make contact between 7 and 10, they are deliberately putting obstacles in the way of this player proving herself. I do not trust Casino Rewards, they even played these games with ME before - am I a "fraudster" as well?

There is no need to worry about the number for Casino Rewards, for Golden Tiger it is 0800 917 1545

One problem is that they are based in Australia, so their "day" is our "night", and they are not prepared, in my experience, to take into account timezones when they deal with players beyond first level support. They may insist on calling her from their security office, which may mean accepting the call between 10pm and 6am, at any time, and on any random date they can be bothered to call.
I suspect they are INTENTIONALLY calling outside the times given, just to catch this lady out, as they know she will be there between 7 and 10pm, but they want to ensure she lives at the address, and is not using a friend's landline AND address with which to play the casino - and this is most likely what Golden Tiger and eCogra believe she has done, and that she probably has done this before to get more than one SUB (different friends' phones and addresses - a very common fraud).

It would be best for sandylady to give her most used number, and IF it subsequently begins to receive telemarketing as a result, report Casino Rewards to the Australian government (their people are there), Kahwanake, and the UK Data Protection office. For 4K, it would be worth it, perhaps not for a lesser amount.

Perhaps if we REALLY get tough with those casinos that pass on our info for profit, such as for spam, then players will be less afraid to give out their full contact details over and above their name and address. eCogra have to do more about it's own members that are shown to be using such dubious tactics, such as spam and passing/selling our details on as "interested in casinos" to third party marketing sites.

The aforementioned (in other threads) "Spin Palace spammer" is still going strong, and nothing seems to have been done to stop it. eCogra are also not acting with any urgency on the matter, and it has been the best part of three months. It seems that Casino Rewards do indeed pass on our contact details, as I get invites from their marketing firm for accounts I already have.

 

[lojo]

Someone owes me 4k and wakes me up at 2am to answer a couple of questions on the phone? No problem. I have to buy a $300 plane ticket and hop onboard with documents to meet them at their offices for 4k? No problem. Walk on my lips over broken glass to prove to the world I'm not a fraudster? Maybe not, but anyone intelligent enough to deposit and play (especially with a bonus) is smart enough to make themselves available to be paid. Doncha think?

 

[chuchu59]

Are you meaning to imply that Meister and I are old???



Just teasing. The point is somewhat valid - but again, most people I know have a land line whether they are living with family or on their own. While using a cell phone is way more convenient, it is also less secure, especially when you can now get sim cards without registration as long as they are prepaid.

When we were kids we thought that anyone who had moustache and a beard were old. Maybe changing your avatars would help.

 

[chuchu59]

Maxd,

I am at a loss as to why the OP didnt cooperate to her fullest. However, did the casino actually offer to telephone her at a specific time of their choice and ask the player to make herself available. Otherwise, the casino seems to be making life difficult for her. Unless security measures also mean that telephone calls to the player's home is randomly set which could mean midnight or even dawn, they should be able to agree on a mutually set time.

 

[lojo]

Regardless of the outcome, there are lessons here.

 

[RobWin]

Are you meaning to imply that Meister and I are old???

Not at all....gene-rationally challenged maybe....:notworthy

but my kids think I am too...

 

[GaryWatson]

Regardless of the outcome, there are lessons here.

Ive skipped the thread & just went with the title. I dont know much about casino sites but all I can say is stick to the big ones. major outlets like ladbrokes, william hills, victor chandler. They are all held accountable and any scams would be national news. They wont go bust. Bonus incentives are secondary.

 

[1819]

Someone owes me 4k and wakes me up at 2am to answer a couple of questions on the phone? No problem. I have to buy a $300 plane ticket and hop onboard with documents to meet them at their offices for 4k? No problem. Walk on my lips over broken glass to prove to the world I'm not a fraudster? Maybe not, but anyone intelligent enough to deposit and play (especially with a bonus) is smart enough to make themselves available to be paid. Doncha think?

while i kinda see your point it should not have to be this way. they accept a deposit and wont question where it comes from. they should not question when paying out. this is the main reason i do not play anymore. i have 3 homes in 3 states. one state is still in the "safe" zone. the other 2 are "evil". i have 1 land phone between the 3. i use only cell phones and never give out the numbers. i have 1 drivers license with only my nj addy. my credit card info has 1 billing addy. they would have a field day with me if i played in ny, with a jersey d.l. from an account registered to my florida addy. it would be no problem for them to take my deposits but no chance of paying out. do some kind of security check BEFORE you take the money if it is so important to protect the "player".

 

[maxd]

... did the casino actually offer to telephone her at a specific time of their choice and ask the player to make herself available.

Yes, several times as I understand it. But look at the problem here: she says "no they didn't, but I only want calls between these specific hours on a phone that is not the phone number I used when I registered." The casino, and eCOGRA let's not forget, say "yes we did, and besides all this phone this number, phone that number, nobody ever answers and it all goes to answering machines business is a classic technique of fraud rings."

So who is right? Where do you draw the line? Where does compassion for what could be an innocent lady's difficult situation end and understanding of the casino's necessity to protect themselves and their fully legit customers from fraud begin?

Well, guess what, there is no "line." I, you, eCOGRA, the casino, and of course the player all have to try and make the best of a difficult situation. I respectfully suggest that giving the casino a valid number where they can reach the person directly is not an unreasonable request. And remember that all of this is taking place while the woman is under suspicion of being a fraudulent player.

Sooner or later you've got to cut through the excuses and say "cooperate or piss off" and I think that point was passed some time ago. Certainly the casino and eCOGRA think so and I can't find a good reason to disagree with them.

If this person really is innocent then (a) they've (hopefully) learned a difficult lesson insofar as cooperating with the casino when there's a major problem on the table, (b) I think we've given this issue it's due attention and effort and it's time to move on, and (c) at least they got their deposit back which is more than most fraud suspects get.

If on the other hand this person really is a fraud then (a) they've certainly learned how to pull everyone's chain, (b) they've been given far more time and effort than they deserve and (c) they got their bleedin' deposit back which has got to be a sweet stroke of luck!

All in all I remain convinced that "Closed" is what this issue is and ought to be.

 

[sandylady]

Hi again,

First, I believe that max has been misinformed by the casino.
He says that "but I only want calls between these specific hours on a phone that is not the phone number I used when I registered"

Please note that it IS the same phone number. You can check the emails I sent ecogra and compare it with the phone number on the casino database.

I now have a proof the casino is not saying the truth on one occasion and I wouldn't be surprised to see it on others...

Second, since I see there is no other way, I am willing to give the casino my home phone number. I will email it to them now, also to ecogra and a PM to max. I will also call them tonight (morning time at Australia, right?) to the phone number MunchkinMeister gave. Btw, thanks for that, shame I don't have enough points to thank you officially

Please note that the casino did not send me even one email regarding the entire issue. They didnt ask to talk to me over the phone, didnt mention any problem with my cashout, nothing. They just returned my deposit and ignored my emails.

Will keep you posted...

 

[chuchu59]

Sandylady,

If this issue is still open, I suggest that you try to agree with the casino on a mutually agreeable time frame where they will telephone you. Frankly, I cannot understand how this has evolved to such a stalemate. Good luck with claiming your winnings.

 

[Edward D. Wood]

well no thread without my 2 cents.
i don`t want to throw more oil into the fire and this is a bit out off "something" but.....i can`t remember which casino it excatly was "lucky emporer, mondial or tiger"....i had an issue with them and i spoke with someone from the support via chat.

the chatguy told me to stay online so that will get contacted.
after at leat 45 min. i called them again....i got the answer..."yes we tried contacting you, several times but you didn`t answer."

exactly, this was an utter lie!!! i stayed online - all the time - in front of my stupid pc. the telephone beside me. they never ever tried to contact me.
so - maybe it was a misunderstanding or they had problems to get a connection to, whatever....but the casino isn`t always right.
its like the parcelguy - throwing in a card in your mailbox "we couldn`t reached you - get your parcel at the office...strangely - when you were on vacation the same day and stayed at home.

i don`t want to hold the flag for the girl here, its all been said - but as always - the are two sides of the story!

greetings

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi again,

First, I believe that max has been misinformed by the casino.
He says that "but I only want calls between these specific hours on a phone that is not the phone number I used when I registered"

Please note that it IS the same phone number. You can check the emails I sent ecogra and compare it with the phone number on the casino database.

I now have a proof the casino is not saying the truth on one occasion and I wouldn't be surprised to see it on others...

Second, since I see there is no other way, I am willing to give the casino my home phone number. I will email it to them now, also to ecogra and a PM to max. I will also call them tonight (morning time at Australia, right?) to the phone number MunchkinMeister gave. Btw, thanks for that, shame I don't have enough points to thank you officially

Please note that the casino did not send me even one email regarding the entire issue. They didnt ask to talk to me over the phone, didnt mention any problem with my cashout, nothing. They just returned my deposit and ignored my emails.

Will keep you posted...

If you really can PROVE that the phone number IS the same one as you registered, AND the same as the one given to eCogra, the casino, and max to make this contact, then you can prove the casino have lied/misinformed max & eCogra about what efforts they have made.

Depending on who provides the service to this number, you might be able to get your telecoms provider to check to see whether there was indeed an attempt to contact you.

The casino also say it went to an "answerphone". Are they sure? Could this "answerphone" actually be a spoken call failure message?, for example, on BT, when I tried to phone my Niece over Christmas I could not get past the "answerphone" at the exchange because I was considered a telemarketing company because I had hidden the incoming number from the caller display/accept service. If this number has any such service on it, the casino will be unable to make contact because they are calling from a call centre, just the place that telemarketers call from to scam unsuspecting customers. To test this, get a friend to dial this number, and then once again but adding the prefix "1470". If only one call gets through, you have such a service active on that line, and the casino will only ever get a message blocking the call at the exchange. If both get through, there must be another reason. The most likely is that the casino is misdialing by not using the correct country and area codes, and is, in fact, continually calling someone else.

For example, if you lived in Southampton, your area code would be 023 followed by your number, but the casino would have to dial +44 23 followed by your number (assuming that Australia use the recognised 44 code for the UK). If they dialled a different country code, they may well get an equivalent local number in another country. If they left in the "0" they may well get a "answerphone message" from the UK end when trying to allocate the call.
The casino should be asked to give the actual text or recording of this message they keep getting.
Edward's tale shows how potentially incompetent casinos can be, they claim to have contacted him with no reply, yet he sat next to his phone for the whole 45 minutes. Whoever they DID try to contact, it wasn't who they were supposed to be contacting.

It might help to explain exactly WHERE this rarely used number is, such as is it your parent's place, your bedroom at home. Please clarify as to why you have asked that they call between 7pm and 10pm, and not at any other time.

For 4K it is well worth the effort, even if this takes alot of time to pursue.
You have to convince Max and eCogra that it is the casino that is wrong, and not that you have set up this phone line for the express purpose of answering verification calls.

One possibility I expect is being considered is that you have registered and played under the identity of a friend or family member, or maybe even done this several times. By giving such restrictions on when you can be contacted you raise the suspicion that this is due to you having to arrange to be at this friends/family home that evening just to take the call.
This is a kind of fraud that is common in places such as universities. Most people would never play online, however, to someone who is a "bonus seeker" and can extract long term value from new player bonuses, their details are of value. Just one set of details "rented from a friend" can double the opportunity for taking down bonuses. Some players have "rented" dozens of identities for this purpose. Innocent players also get tangled up where they just happen to live in an area where this has been taking place, and has just been discovered by the casino.
If you DO give the casino a "rarely used" number, it is at least expected that the number belongs to you, and not a friend. If the casino were clever enough, they could check whether the phone number you gave them was registered to the same address you registered with your account. If they found it wasn't, they would be able to say you gave "false information".
There might be an argument about this, as it does not actually say the number has to be yours, just one you can be contacted on.
The more peculiar your circumstances, the less likely it is that you will be paid the 4K, and casinos are not answerable to scrutiny as would be a UK company that accused a customer of fraud. THEY would have to prove it, NOT the customer prove innocence as in the world of online casinos.

 

[GaryWatson]

Customer service wise, the best site I have ever dealt with is Paddypower. I rarely call sites but any time I have called Paddies, they have been great. 100% customer service. I have done crap at the site but they are my favorite, for that reason

 

[Casinomeister]

...first, the phone number I gave the casino is not a false one. It is a number I just do not use often...

The first number you gave was being forwarded to voicemail. There were also indicators that I'm not a liberty to discuss that connect you to other players. You recieved your deposit back, so you are not out of pocket in any case.

Max said this case is closed - it's closed. Don't waste his time, please. End of discussion.

 

[sandylady]

an update

Hi everyone,

A small update on my case

I have been of the forum for several weeks trying to solve the matter directly with the casino.

I managed to talk over the phone with Jon from the risk department and it seems the casino doesn't take me for a fraudster.
Actually, they were a little upset about me publishing my story on this forum

Anway, they wanted to verify my identity (fine with me), then they asked for more documents (a little bit of a hassle but I guess that's the rules) and after they got everything they asked for - they disappeared again.

I don't know what to say, they got all the information they asked for and are still holding my money for no good reason.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi everyone,

A small update on my case

I have been of the forum for several weeks trying to solve the matter directly with the casino.

I managed to talk over the phone with Jon from the risk department and it seems the casino doesn't take me for a fraudster.
Actually, they were a little upset about me publishing my story on this forum

Anway, they wanted to verify my identity (fine with me), then they asked for more documents (a little bit of a hassle but I guess that's the rules) and after they got everything they asked for - they disappeared again.

I don't know what to say, they got all the information they asked for and are still holding my money for no good reason.

If the casino do NOT suspect you of fraud, then WTF do they think they are playing at!!!
If you are indeed innocent of any wrong doing, then it follows that the casino is guilty of a big screwup, and must also have misrepresented the issue to eCogra.
Currently, the forum only has your word for this latest development, do you have anything in writing that shows the casino do not believe fraud is involved, and that they are prepared to pay you once they have the documents.
If this is NOT a fraud issue, then this should have been sorted out a long time ago, but there again, this is CASINO REWARDS, known for poor service and an oversized corporate ego that makes them believe they can ignore forums, even this one, as not important enough to bother having a rep from the casino participate.

 

[paul02085]

The first number you gave was being forwarded to voicemail. There were also indicators that I'm not a liberty to discuss that connect you to other players. You recieved your deposit back, so you are not out of pocket in any case.

Max said this case is closed - it's closed. Don't waste his time, please. End of discussion.

Sandylady, i noticed in you post yesterday that you did not address Casinomeisters saying that there are indicators connecting you to other players. Do you have anything to say about that? Sounds pretty serious to me.

 

[sandylady]

Hi there,

Thanks for your interest

On my phone call with the casino I was told that no fraud is suspected, no "indicators connecting you to other players bla bla bla story", but rather that the only reason I didn't receive my money so far was that they couldn't contact me over the phone.

They said that once we make this phone call (which we did) and further documents are received (done that) I will get my money.

About the casinomeister "indicators connecting you to other players" - it's complete rubbish.
I am sorry I am using this word but what can I say? I am chasing my 3,500GBP (the 500 deposit was returned) for almost 6 months now, made the phone call they wanted, gave them a land line phone number as well, sent all the documents, had to wait ages for them to call me (which they didn't), got suspected or better said convicted by the casinomeister as a fraudster.

How much can a woman suffer