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[CLOSED] golden tiger withholds money, egocra agrees, CM ignores

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by sandylady, Dec 20, 2007.

    Dec 20, 2007
  1. sandylady

    sandylady Dormant account

    Occupation:
    private
    Location:
    united kingdom
    This is my story.

    I played Golden Tiger Casino during September 2007, deposited 500, got a 250 bonus and finished with 4,000GBP after I got quite lucky on the tri card poker.

    After the request for documents the casino ignored me for some days, told me they need my documents again and again eventually I ended up sending them 3 or 4 times, after that they decided to ignore me.

    The casino attitude convinced me to file a complaint with ecogra on October 3rd and it took ecogra 7 weeks to come up with an answer saying my account has been linked to a number of other accounts. (Complete BS)

    so, I kept nagging them and here is their new response:

    Your account was linked to other accounts and the casino tried on a number of occasions to contact you telephonically to try and establish a valid reason for these links. However each time they tried to call it went straight to voicemail.
    There are certain patterns of behaviour that link groups and there are a number of these that you share.
    If you are sure that you are not linked to any group, please provide me with a telephone number where the Casinos Risk Department can contact you and a time that would be convenient to call.

    So I did provide them with a number, I even asked if they want me to contact them, but they just told me they are on their way.
    3 weeks, no phone call, no replay to my emails, nothing.

    PAB?? Well, it seems useless. I PAB 2 months ago, send several reminders but no life sign from Bryan. (hope he is o.k. :))

    Now what?
     
  2. Dec 21, 2007
  3. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Hi, my name is Max Drayman. I've joined Bryan's crew here at Casinomeister.com as the Complaints and PAB Manager.

    Let me begin by thanking you for your kind and gracious post. While I'm sure that you didn't really mean anything critical or dismissive when you typed "CM ignores" and that it was all just an unfortunate mistake, I would like to gently point out that if you want someones help it's poor planning to begin by insulting them. Should you find yourself tempted to repeat this approach here at Casinomeister I feel it only fair to caution you that you might not receive such a warm and understanding reception.

    Now, let me inquire as to the status of your PAB, shall I? After all, you've asked so nicely. ;)

    Regards,
    Max.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Dec 21, 2007
  5. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    If you have a problem with the eCOGRA Fair Gaming Advocate's assessment of your complaint, you can appeal it for further consideration by the board of independent directors.
     
  6. Dec 21, 2007
  7. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I've already checked into this one and she is connected to other players.

    Sandy - I'm not ignoring you. But when I have players who knowingly cheat or break casino's terms and conditions I honestly don't have time for this. I have more important things to deal with.

    You already went through eCOGRA - and they told you what you needed to do. I guess you want me to tell you the same thing.

    You have failed/refused to give the casino correct contact details and you are linked to a fraud ring.
     
  8. Dec 21, 2007
  9. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Ok, given the history and status of this one I'm going to flag it "ON HOLD".

    If and when you can verify that you have spoken to the casino and have complied with their requests we can talk again. Until then the issue is inactive as far as I'm concerned.
     
  10. Jan 2, 2008
  11. Mark583

    Mark583 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Painter
    Location:
    Australia
    This is scary.

    Such a long time being ignored and then linked to other accounts.

    I use the play charts at the wizzard of odds, i guess me and 1000's who also use the same charts are linked.

    I like to play a system (yes i know systems don't work but i have fun playing them) I chip up 1 unit when i lose and chip down 1 unit when i win, i hope no one else uses this system or if i have a big win i could be linked as well :rolleyes:

    :thumbsup: to America for trying to clean up this industry from those who rip off the little guy after a big win and those who cover it up to protect their profits from the links they provide.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jan 2, 2008
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    So what the hell is this supposed to mean?

    This player is connected by indicators that go beyond using some chart from the Wizard. And this player was not ignored - I checked into this as soon as I got this, but found out she's not being as up front as she ought to be. Sorry to be so blunt as to stating I don't have time for this nonsense. That's one of the reasons I have Max on board.

    As for your statement "America cleaning up this industry". That's a laugh. They are only trying to protect their gambling entities (track betting, landbased casinos, etc) from outside competition which would sweep the sidewalk with the US based casinos if given a chance. Who has suffered the most are US players since they have no protection whatsoever.

    Implying that Casinomeister is covering up something with links?? You make no sense here. I'd appreciate it if you'd get to the point - are you implying that I am making a profit off of this player by covering up something? :what:
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Jan 2, 2008
  15. sandylady

    sandylady Dormant account

    Occupation:
    private
    Location:
    united kingdom
    ho ho ho!

    Well, CM decided for some reasons I'm connected to other players.
    First, I don't understand what does it mean, I didn't see a clause in the T&C defining what kind of connection between players is not allowed.

    What is I have a friend that played at your casino. Does it mean I am connected to other players?

    Second, if he knew it right from the start why does Max keep sending me PMs? why did ecogra send me few emails telling me I have to receive this phone call in order to validate my identity?

    Third, CM says I'm not being as up front as I ought to be.

    Well, I'm sorry but I did not give my private cell number. I do not want casinos calling me on a daily basis. so, I gave them a number I do not use often, they got no replay so they decided I am connected to other players.

    That's what ecogra wrote to me that and I am quite convinced that is all there is.

    So, I told them they can call me 7pm to 10pm GMT. They did not call.
    I asked them for thier phone number, they did not give it.

    Their support is horrible, emails are bouncing and even if you find them you don't get a decent replay.

    Does the CM have secret motives? I'm not sure, I prefer to think he is just taking the short way, putting the blame on the player -> less headaches.
     
  16. Jan 3, 2008
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I gave you the benefit of the doubt - and Max and I are checking into this once more just to be sure. You're pretty much out of line implying that I have "secret" motives.

    Members like you really make me wonder why the hell I put up with this crap.

    Bottom line is that you are connected to a fraudster ring. You deny it so we're double checking.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jan 3, 2008
  19. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    (a) because you keep sending him PMs proclaiming your innocence and asking for help, and
    (b) because it's his job to look into these things on the player's behalf ... rather like you're asking us to do for you now, no?

    I gotta say that you've got a funny way of going about your business. The facts are that the casino believes they have evidence that you are committing fraud and you refuse to make yourself available to them as they require in order for them to confirm your identity details.

    In those circumstances your chances of getting paid are pretty low which, of course, is why you turned to us and asked for help, repeatedly. Then you insult us for not doing something for you and imply that we're somehow in collusion with the casino, or whatever.

    I don't know about you but where I come from if you ask someone for help and then insult them to their face (more than once I might add) then the chances are pretty good that they'll tell you to take a hike.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
    1 person likes this.
  20. Jan 3, 2008
  21. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Here's the key. Can anyone figure out why?
     
  22. Jan 3, 2008
  23. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Quite! If I wanted to get paid I'd do what was necessary to see it done. These concerns about being casinos "calling me on a daily basis" seem a little inexplicable.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Jan 3, 2008
  25. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    My exact thoughts too.
    For 4 grand they could call me every day if necessary!
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jan 3, 2008
  27. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Er,
    I wouldnt give them my cell phone number either because other casinos were probably chasing me for the other 20K that I had disputed as credit card charges.:D:D
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Jan 3, 2008
  29. sandylady

    sandylady Dormant account

    Occupation:
    private
    Location:
    united kingdom
    Hi,

    First, I didn't accuse the CM for secret motives; he raised that issue after mark583 post.

    I am grateful for both CM and Max for taking their time to investigate into it, I just didn't understand why CM publicly accused me of being connected to other players and this is why I got a little mad. Sorry for that ;)

    Second, for 4,000GBP I would give any phone number they want but that's not the issue.

    When you register to a casino you have to give your phone number (a practice I find to be very annoying). At this point you do not know yet that 4,000GBP are on stake.

    If you give all the casinos your real number - you are in trouble.
    If you give them a number you do not use often and then you tell them you have another phone number - you are in a bigger trouble.
    Now they have a proof you submitted false info and you can forget about the money.
     
  30. Jan 3, 2008
  31. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Actually, what is the issue here? Even if the OP is part of a 'gang' who frequently uses bonuses to acquire winnings, she is still risking her own funds unless she is betting on a multi-player game on roulette/baccarat and the players bet against each other. Shouldnt the focus be on whether she has committed any fraud instead of simply denying her winnings because she is connected to fraudsters. If her play had been fair and square the casino should have to prove that she gained a considerable advantage in play by being connected with the group. Incidentally, having connections with fraudsters does not necessarily mean that she was part of the gang.

    Meanwhile, I hope that Sandylady can tone down her comments a bit. When things are not going your way, you dont simply bash those who are trying to help you but have doubts they wish to clear. Why should they assist you if you continue with that.
     
    3 people like this.
  32. Jan 3, 2008
  33. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    I started doing a bunch of quotes to track the history of accusations and innuendos in this thread but it comes down to this:

    If sandylady wants help from us she should understand a few things:

    (1) this is a free service we're offering here and we do the best we can. If she thinks that insults about how our services are "useless" and so forth is going to help anything at all she is dead wrong. The end result of such behavior will likely be the exact opposite of what she says she wants.

    (2) if the casino says "give us a number where we can reach you" and she does not make herself available then she is not cooperating with the casino and they have no obligation to send out search parties to find her. She _must_ allow them to get in touch with her, by whatever means necessary, or she might as well close the book on this and walk away.

    (3) if the casino thinks she's connected to fraudsters then it's up to her to prove her good intentions to the casino and cooperate with them in resolving the issue. No cooperation = no resolution, plain and simple. She, or anyone else, disagrees with the casino's accusations? Tough! They've got a right to protect their interests. Now if anyone can demonstrate that the casino has been unreasonable -- which no one has -- then maybe it's a different issue. So far that's not the case here.

    Finally, consider the case from our point of view:
    - player asks for help and then repeatedly insults and berates us as we attempt to do what she asked.
    - casino tries to contact the player but player is not available. Instead of doing whatever needs to be done to make it happen player comes here and behaves as above.
    - overall we spent no small amount of time dealing with this and all we get is s**t and abuse from the player.

    Now ask yourself: what incentive do we have to continue helping this player? At this point it comes down to CM's good nature, my desire to do a good job here and our general sense of giving the player a fair shake, whether they deserve it or not.

    I STRONGLY suggest that the player be thankful for the help they are getting and cooperate with us and the casino to the best of their ability. Failure to do so is likely going to result in doors being closed that might otherwise have been open to her.

    Lastly, I have changed the title of the thread to reflect (a) the fact that we are waiting to hear back from the casino and/or rep, and (b) that "steals" is inappropriate here.
     
    7 people like this.
  34. Jan 3, 2008
  35. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Short answer - anyone can give a cell number and pretend to be someone else. This is why they want your land line.
     
  36. Jan 3, 2008
  37. oldtrvlagt

    oldtrvlagt Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Self Employed Travel Agent
    Location:
    Iowa
    This is the "poster child" for casinos wanting documents...sandy for $4000 or pounds I'd give them my land line, my cell phone, my husband's cell, etc.(do you get the picture?). Then maybe the rest of us could cash out $100 once in a while without "feeling" like we've done something wrong...get a grip..it's a &*&^ pile of money!:eek:
     
  38. Jan 3, 2008
  39. ternur

    ternur A damn fine cup of coffee CAG webby mm3

    Occupation:
    Lawyer
    Location:
    Finland
    Someone still uses land lines? I've ran into this headache in the past myself. Haven't used one for years, still some casinos seem to insist this as a reliable piece of information about your identity.

    Accepting deposits from a verified source should be enough. Who cares where you live or if you use a phone.

     
    5 people like this.

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