CasinoCruise refused to pay my £1700 winnings after making withdrawal.

[partyhummel]

player cant remember act of self exclusion?

if the player definetely cannot remember to have self excluded evrymatrix and casino cruise should crosscheck if there was a mistake in database... therefore they also should share the selfexclusion info with the player so the situation can be solved.

 

[fun4all]

Great post Vinylweatherman. Sometimes it feels like casinos are out of control and just make the rules to suit themselves. UK regulation will bring legal consequences for them as well as players should they misbehave.

 

[The_Chef_]

Great post Vinylweatherman. Sometimes it feels like casinos are out of control and just make the rules to suit themselves. UK regulation will bring legal consequences for them as well as players should they misbehave.

This is why I am going to focus my future deposits to the accredited casinos and especially those, who have a "clean registry".
Would be devastating to hit that Big One on not-so-trustworthy casino and fight to get your money.

 

[lotusch]

I can see EM ending up in the rogue pit at some stage.
What an ignorant bunch of crocks.
Think I am gonna be very careful now as well,trying to avoid EM operated casino's.

As for reading this whole thread just this evening,I am 100% with OP.
I think he has a very strong case.
Even though this casino is operated through the EM platform,they still could have been lenient and show a bit more of empathy towards OP and paid him his winnings..After that they still could have parted separate ways by closing OP's account.
But at least I would have had some respect for the casino.
Now I can't help just feeling this whole case stinks.

The big companies raking in millions and millions and deny a 1700 quid win for a customer that had no idea he had done something wrong.

Blegh!

 

[quber]

That was a mistake of mine to write what I did to you without fully checking the situation. I was over motivated to try and help you but as things to turn out - the situation is as I posted above.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do but legally once you have SE the licensee must return your deposit and close your account, which was what happened.

All the best,
Lloyd

So the OP self excluded at another casino and no-one will tell him which one. He should be told the casino and the date then every deposit to an EM casino since that date should be refunded.

The Casinos can not put themselves in a win win situation where only winners get their deposits back and all losing players lose their deposits, this is rogue behaviour and i believe a warning should be stickied on the 1st page

 

[CasinoCruiseRep]

So the OP self excluded at another casino and no-one will tell him which one. He should be told the casino and the date then every deposit to an EM casino since that date should be refunded.

The Casinos can not put themselves in a win win situation where only winners get their deposits back and all losing players lose their deposits, this is rogue behaviour and i believe a warning should be stickied on the 1st page

The Player is in the UK and of course under UK GC regulations and the player knows that he SEed from another EM casino and which one as well. It also states very clearly in our footer that we are running on the EM license.

As soon as EM realised the player was already SEed on their license they closed his account and refunded his deposit. The system in place needs to be automatic, of course, so that the player can't even register at another EM licensed casino during their SE cool down period and this system upgrade is in development at the moment.

UK GC are in fact moving towards setup things so that if a player SEed from any UK licensed casino they will not be able to play at any other UK licensed casino for the cooling off period. Of course, this is just in planning but it shows the UK GC attitude towards SE.

 

[spintee]

The Player is in the UK and of course under UK GC regulations and the player knows that he SEed from another EM casino and which one as well. It also states very clearly in our footer that we are running on the EM license.

As soon as EM realised the player was already SEed on their license they closed his account and refunded his deposit. The system in place needs to be automatic, of course, so that the player can't even register at another EM licensed casino during their SE cool down period and this system upgrade is in development at the moment.

UK GC are in fact moving towards setup things so that if a player SEed from any UK licensed casino they will not be able to play at any other UK licensed casino for the cooling off period. Of course, this is just in planning but it shows the UK GC attitude towards SE.

I know its out of your control but at least stick a big note up saying do not sign up if excluded from other EM sites,

But this is the problem, People do not no about fourms or use them, I bet there are thousands of players that have excluded from some sites and are carrying on as normal, Without knowing whats going to happen, Even if they see the excluded part about EM than how on earth are they going to know whats sites,

EM and casino's that are running from them are going to get a shock, It will not belong before you are told to refund every players balance back that have excluded from sites and deposit on some after, This is going to run in to thousands of ££££
& all the time,

 

[Jasminebed]

I am not privy to the pms the Casino may have had regarding his other self-exclusion, but his opening post seemed to indicate he didn't know which one, and hence his inquiries. I'm not saying it is so in the OP's case, but I sometimes can't recall what happened at what casino from months ago.

With self-exclusions only being picked up on withdrawals, those players who sincerely do have a gambling addiction and self-excluded somewhere for those reasons, one of the biggest problem many of them face is the lack of ability to stop playing and withdraw. In an unrelated thread in quit gambling, a player posted how they emptied their bank account in a session, and failed to withdraw at one point when they were $300 ahead. Some may never withdraw. A friend tells me her mom regularly plays online, has many time had balances into four figures and has NEVER ONCE made a cashout.

Who holds an Everymatrix licence (or operates under it, whichever is the correct term) changes from time to time as well. Some new ones appear, some like Guts leave to get their own licence.

Those casinos accredited here should have a duty to list them BY NAME in terms and conditions, and keep that list current.

Of course there will still be players fail to read terms, and we can only ask casinos to do so much.

Perhaps every new player should be checked for self-exclusion within 2 business days. If name and birthdate match, that should be enough to trigger further checks, regardless if the player has moved, changed their email or ISP, or bought a new computer.

 

[quber]

You can't self exclude as an alternative for closing your account. If a casino refuses to close your account you can complain on the forums and if that doesn't work you can approach their regulator.

Self exclusion only relates to gambling issues and legally a player that self excludes needs to be treated by the casino licensee as someone with a self confessed gambling problem.

How is a player to know that self exclusion relates only to gambling problems? The below is from your Terms and conditions, there is no mention of gambling issues, all you say is 'take a break', in fact if a player wants to permanently self exclude he has to state his reasons for doing so. A player could self exclude for a year and you haven't asked for a reason and just assumed he has an issue.


29.3 Self-exclusion - Should you need to take a break from gambling, we provide a self-exclusion facility which can be activated by the customer within 'My Account' or by contacting Support. Self-exclusion means that your account will remain closed for a minimum period of 7 days to a maximum period of 1 year, and will not be reactivated under any circumstances during the exclusion period. This is the major difference to a standard account closure request. Should you wish to activate permanent self-exclusion you may do so by contacting Support at support@casinocruise.com stating your reasons and you will be permanently blocked with immediate effect.


There is also no mention that he will be self excluded at any other casinos

 

[asparkes15]

The Player is in the UK and of course under UK GC regulations and the player knows that he SEed from another EM casino and which one as well. It also states very clearly in our footer that we are running on the EM license.

As soon as EM realised the player was already SEed on their license they closed his account and refunded his deposit. The system in place needs to be automatic, of course, so that the player can't even register at another EM licensed casino during their SE cool down period and this system upgrade is in development at the moment.

UK GC are in fact moving towards setup things so that if a player SEed from any UK licensed casino they will not be able to play at any other UK licensed casino for the cooling off period. Of course, this is just in planning but it shows the UK GC attitude towards SE.

It's hilarious how you think this is acceptable behaviour. Let's be honest here, these rules are being made up as they go along to protect CasinoCruise's interests. Interest being money.

 

[CasinoCruiseRep]

It's hilarious how you think this is acceptable behaviour. Let's be honest here, these rules are being made up as they go along to protect CasinoCruise's interests. Interest being money.

Not too sure how to respond to that comment about my integrity

I do agree that the current process is not good but I'm not making things up. That I can promise you.

Cheers

 

[dunover]

The Player is in the UK and of course under UK GC regulations and the player knows that he SEed from another EM casino and which one as well. It also states very clearly in our footer that we are running on the EM license.

As soon as EM realised the player was already SEed on their license they closed his account and refunded his deposit. The system in place needs to be automatic, of course, so that the player can't even register at another EM licensed casino during their SE cool down period and this system upgrade is in development at the moment.

UK GC are in fact moving towards setup things so that if a player SEed from any UK licensed casino they will not be able to play at any other UK licensed casino for the cooling off period. Of course, this is just in planning but it shows the UK GC attitude towards SE.

HOW MANY EFFING TIMES?????????????????

IF YOU GUYS CANNOT PROVIDE A SIMPLE LIST, AS I'VE SAID UNTIL BLUE IN THE FACE, OF LINKED CASINOS THAT WILL/CAN AFFECT A NEW PLAYER WHETHER FOR BONUS OR SE REASONS THEN ALL THIS BS IS DOWN TO YOU!!

This means 'simple' as in the new player doesn't have to conduct a licence search. Funny how your sites sharing the same licence allow SE'd players to sign up (as to be fair you mentioned) with others under the licence and this miraculously isn't noticed until they withdraw any winnings.

If you ask me this is a no-lose scam and it stinks to high heaven.

1. SE'd from linked site-Player is allowed to sign up and play. Loses and maybe shuts/SE's account. You collect money nothing more said.

2. Same player allowed to sign wins. Suddenly it's observed you have a reason not to pay them.

These two scenarios occur firstly because you don't spot player and stop them at sign-up stage and secondly because (notwithstanding the first)you DO NOT specify the sites linked.

Be honest reps:
How times have your casinos in scenario #1 above, contacted a player with the following e-mail:

"Dear Plonker,

We noticed last week you signed up with us at Donkey Bollocks Slots and deposited and lost e350 and then SE'd your account. It has come to our attention that prior to joining us you had been a member of Grunter Games which share a licence with us. You SE'd from Grunter Games therefore according to our terms regarding responsible gaming you were not permitted to play at Donkey Bollocks Slots and all bets, as per the licence terms must be voided. This means we are sending a refund of e350 back to your depositing method forthwith."

Let me guess.........

 

[CasinoCruiseRep]

HOW MANY EFFING TIMES?????????????????

IF YOU GUYS CANNOT PROVIDE A SIMPLE LIST, AS I'VE SAID UNTIL BLUE IN THE FACE, OF LINKED CASINOS THAT WILL/CAN AFFECT A NEW PLAYER WHETHER FOR BONUS OR SE REASONS THEN ALL THIS BS IS DOWN TO YOU!!

This means 'simple' as in the new player doesn't have to conduct a licence search. Funny how your sites sharing the same licence allow SE'd players to sign up (as to be fair you mentioned) with others under the licence and this miraculously isn't noticed until they withdraw any winnings.

If you ask me this is a no-lose scam and it stinks to high heaven.

1. SE'd from linked site-Player is allowed to sign up and play. Loses and maybe shuts/SE's account. You collect money nothing more said.

2. Same player allowed to sign wins. Suddenly it's observed you have a reason not to pay them.

These two scenarios occur firstly because you don't spot player and stop them at sign-up stage and secondly because (notwithstanding the first)you DO NOT specify the sites linked.

Be honest reps:
How times have your casinos in scenario #1 above, contacted a player with the following e-mail:

"Dear Plonker,

We noticed last week you signed up with us at Donkey Bollocks Slots and deposited and lost e350 and then SE'd your account. It has come to our attention that prior to joining us you had been a member of Grunter Games which share a licence with us. You SE'd from Grunter Games therefore according to our terms regarding responsible gaming you were not permitted to play at Donkey Bollocks Slots and all bets, as per the licence terms must be voided. This means we are sending a refund of e350 back to your depositing method forthwith."

Let me guess.........




On our site if you click on the UKGC license logo in our footer you will arrive here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Search for Casino Cruise and you will find EveryMatrix Software Limited > click on that and you will arrive here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You will see the list of white labels there. However, Thrills and Super Lenny now have their own UK GC license. You can check this on the UKGC site and on Super Lenny footer.

Furthermore, our footer clearly says that we are operating under EM license.

We aren't going to start listing other casinos on our site.

I will fix the UK GC logo link to go straight here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[dunover]

On our site if you click on the UKGC license logo in our footer you will arrive here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Search for Casino Cruise and you will find EveryMatrix Software Limited > click on that and you will arrive here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You will see the list of white labels there. However, Thrills and Super Lenny now have their own UK GC license. You can check this on the UKGC site and on Super Lenny footer.

Furthermore, our footer clearly says that we are operating under EM license.

We aren't going to start listing other casinos on our site.

Therein lies the problem....

So the new player is expected to search, without direction or instruction from your site, for UKGC licence information and deduce whether it will affect his play at your site? This is totally at odds (yes Vinyl!) with consumer protection measures in the UK which unfortunately thus far have no cohesion with the UKGC.

Wouldn't it be simpler to directly tell the player as I suggested, which sites are relevant? Why the secrecy and obfuscation? If the information is in the public domain anyway, as you have tried to demonstrate with your dead links, why not provide it yourselves?

Sorry but I believe, for the reasons in my first post, that it is financially beneficial for you (and the other casinos) NOT to make it obvious.

When will we see ANY accredited casino bite the bullet and actually disclose fully in THEIR OWN pages of terms the associated casinos the new player needs to be aware of?

And I ask again, how many (losing) players has your site contacted and refunded when you discovered they wouldn't have been paid due to EM duplicity terms???

 

[spintee]

I am waiting for someone to come by and tell us they have been paid after SE a few times, Than got the the horror story when won big, Only time than more excuse

 

[CasinoCruiseRep]

So the new player is expected to search, without direction or instruction from your site, for UKGC licence information and deduce whether it will affect his play at your site? This is totally at odds (yes Vinyl!) with consumer protection measures in the UK which unfortunately thus far have no cohesion with the UKGC.

What do suggest other than link the UK GC logo to the page that shows the casinos we share the license with? A SE player should ad least want to check this, no?

And I ask again, how many (losing) players has your site contacted and refunded when you discovered they wouldn't have been paid due to EM terms???

We don't close the player accounts as we have no way of even knowing that the player is already SE at another casino on the same license. I will get some stats for you from EM - good question.

 

[dunover]

What do suggest other than link the UK GC logo to the page that shows the casinos we share the license with? A SE player should ad least want to check this, no?

Why would he want to check? As far as he is concerned you are a fresh site he hasn't played at before therefore has little reason to look UNLESS you point him in the right direction and tell him he should at risk of not getting paid if he wins.....

We don't close the player accounts as we have no way of even knowing that the player is already SE at another casino on the same license. I will get some stats for you from EM - good question.

Well that really is a huge failure on the part of EM then isn't it? If it's so important to EM that a player is not SE'd at another EM site then as part of their software and service to their clients like yourself they should bloody well have the systems in place so you DO know!!

Sounds like a half-assed set-up to me that they are in no hurry to improve as it benefits their clients and shafts the players.

P.S. Your idea of a direct link to the UKGC list for the EM licence while well meant is completely pointless as their system requires a search each time and doesn't store results.

P.P.S. My idea! How about you copy the list from the UKGC and stick it in your T&C's. 2 minutes of html editing. Simple as far as I can see, but the casinos affected obviously pale at this outrageous challenge.

 

[spintee]

What do suggest other than link the UK GC logo to the page that shows the casinos we share the license with? A SE player should ad least want to check this, no?



We don't close the player accounts as we have no way of even knowing that the player is already SE at another casino on the same license. I will get some stats for you from EM - good question.

You may well have no way of knowing but soon find out quick enough when it comes to a withdraw (anysite) Maybe to be fair to players do the same checks as to what you do when they withdraw, But do the checks when deposit?

All well and good putting your licence up there but people that do not no about all the SE and getting bared its pretty much useless

 

[asparkes15]

Why not honour the winnings? Are CasinoCruise really that slimy to hold onto the cash that he rightfully won? Rules cannot be made up as you go along, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that people are aware that if they are signed up to a linked site, that signing up to yours may affect them. Otherwise, it's just using a made up rule to con people out of money. Cutting a corner to ensure maximum profit. And that's no better than a con artist.

 

[interlog]

I too would be interested to know how many depositors that lost money and were self excluded at another casino operating under the same license have been refunded their deposit without having to ask.

As Dunover said, this is a no lose situation for the casino. Take, take, take but when it comes to giving, it suddenly becomes an issue.

It really is simple isn't it. Once a new player signs up, the account gets audited at the end of the day. If it is then established the player is self excluded at another casino, the account is blocked and monies are refunded (if applicable) minus a reasonable administration charge.

Not difficult isn't it.

 

[fun4all]

Funny thing is I bet they do check accounts on sign up where it benefits them. Theres no way they just allow people to make multi accounts or something and carry on playing after sign up. Just my opinion but this thread sure makes it seem like they only check what suits them.

The worst problem gamblers will never withdraw either, so its an ultimate win for the casino if one of them signs up after self exclusion somewhere else under EM licence. CasinoCruise would never stop them playing.

 

[Jory]

I too would be interested to know how many depositors that lost money and were self excluded at another casino operating under the same license have been refunded their deposit without having to ask.

Probably no one.

I was excluded at both Next and Lucky casino when I joined Casino Cruise and I didn't get my deposit refunded even after asking. They said it's because "I lost" and at the time I had deposited back in March, EMs policy was to not refund deposits of players who were self excluded and lost. Basically I deposited $100 and the best possible outcome was having my deposit refunded only if I managed to reach the withdrawal stage.

They seem to be trying to blame the player for not doing their homework before joining a new casino, but in my case I contacted them directly and told them that I was excluded at two of their casinos, but they said it "should not be a problem".

 

[cncas2123]

Probably no one.

I was excluded at both Next and Lucky casino when I joined Casino Cruise and I didn't get my deposit refunded even after asking. They said it's because "I lost" and at the time I had deposited back in March, EMs policy was to not refund deposits of players who were self excluded and lost. Basically I deposited $100 and the best possible outcome was having my deposit refunded only if I managed to reach the withdrawal stage.

They seem to be trying to blame the player for not doing their homework before joining a new casino, but in my case I contacted them directly and told them that I was excluded at two of their casinos, but they said it "should not be a problem".

By not refunding your deposit when you had excluded from an EM site means that they are breaching the licensing rules of the UKGC - how many times has it been posted when someone has won that the reason the winnings cant be paid is because it states in the UKGC terms that an excluded player must be returned to the position he was in prior to depositing??? So Casino Cruise are feeding you a lot of BS, its not an EM policy its the UKGC terms for issuing a license and I would love to see what the rep has to say about this.

 

[fun4all]

By not refunding your deposit when you had excluded from an EM site means that they are breaching the licensing rules of the UKGC

I don't know where "Jory" is from, perhaps they are not from UK in which case they would not fall under the UKGC regulation in casinocruises eyes. They have a maltese licence from everymatrix as well.

I look at some casinos and they usually have dual licences - UKGC and another (say malta for example). Usually I read stuff like "we are licenced by the UKGC for players in the united kingdom". Maybe that sort of thing is at work here and Jory is not from the UK.

 

[Tirilej]

I don't know where "Jory" is from, perhaps they are not from UK in which case they would not fall under the UKGC regulation in casinocruises eyes. They have a maltese licence from everymatrix as well.

I look at some casinos and they usually have dual licences - UKGC and another (say malta for example). Usually I read stuff like "we are licenced by the UKGC for players in the united kingdom". Maybe that sort of thing is at work here and Jory is not from the UK.

He is from the uk.

I remember this well because he was scared of where he could play. There were all these discussions in threads back then, and even though he got the green light from live chat he asked the rep here.
It took him one month to answer. One month, where both I and Jory reminded him. The final reply was that no, he wasn't allowed to play and his money would not be refunded. It has bothered me since then because he really wanted to do the right thing. Not all players are like that.