Casino Complaint Casino Reward Group, be aware of certain terms and conditions

[corrie1946]

Hi everybody,
Here is my story about depositing and withdrawal I experienced short time ago.
Read it if you want, call me an idiot afterwards if you like, up to you, but be warned.
By the way, ofcourse I had some short discussion with Rene before I post this but did not come further than her mentioning read the terms and conditions of our group altough I asked her honest opinion about those terms and conditions. OK, here ite goes :

am a regular player on slotmachines at various internet-casinos, find casinos like Unibet, the Dutch Kroon Casino as well as some other reliable casinos as I may say so. But sometimes you want to try other slotmachines and therefor other casinos.
Got promotional material by post from this CR group, inviting me to start playing at Quatro Casino. Ok, gave it a try.
Received a 25 euro bonus, had to deposit at least 1 euro to get started, registered under my own name and up we go.
Deposited not 1 but 5 euros via Ideal /direct bankaccounting.
Now when you are in the deposit process via Ideal you get the choice from which bankaccountno. you want to pay your deposit.
My wife and I play together and have the same bank, just different bankaccountnumbers.
This time we deposited from my wifes bankaccountnumber. Saw no harm in doing this (my wife neither hehe), and this is really not a problem at all for mentioned casinos like Unibet, Kroon and many others we play. In fact, when it comes to a withdraw later they simply ask you to which bankaccount you want to have transfered your withdrawal.
Made the wagering requirements and requested for 500 euro withdrawal, later sent in the paperwork like DL, utilitybills etc and a copy of the bankaccountnumber-registration, which was my wifes bankaccount..
End of the story : CR Group conviscated the 500 euro (plus they kept 5 euro deposit from my wifes bankaccount lol) because I was the registered player and the deposit was from my wifes bankaccount.
Rene calls this blackmailing, publishing this, but I already informed CR / Riskmanager by mail last week wednesday I dont want to receive the 500 anymore, be happy with it, you will not see me again, I just want to inform players in this business about these terms.
To me a customerfriendly casino should have asked further to a client, from whom was that bankaccount you used or be sportive and act like f.i. Unibet and others mentioned. I am not talking abt the various email offers you get from CR and some others shortly after you asked for a withdrawal, inviting you to play on with more bonuses and meanwhile losing your pending withdrawal,its just this warning about the mentioned terms and conditions. Now go ahead fellow players or who ever, call me an idiot

 

[raj]

No disrespect, and I understaand it's all completely innocent , but ANY casino where you use a payment card in a different name to that on the account is going to cause you problems IMHO.

Raj

 

[vinylweatherman]

Did your wife also use the same offer by making another casino account?

These "deposit 1, get 20 (or 25)" offers seem to be a magnet for multi accounters. I think they should be ditched altogether, rather than have the casino group suffer the bad PR that comes along when things turn sour.

I don't know about this "ideal" deposit method, but in my experience it takes some effort to use someone else's bank details to fund a deposit method. I could understand it if this were a joint account where both parties have the legal right to use it, but when the accounts are separate, the default position taken is that the funds arising do not belong to the player, and that permission has not been granted for their use.

This mistake seems to be down to having both yours and your wife's account selectable on the same conduit. It would be better to completely separate your funding methods such that such mistakes become impossible to make by accident.

The deposit should be returned to where it came from in due course.

Casino Rewards are regulated in the Kahnawake territory, and have recently shown considerable concern in protecting players from wrong decisions made by casinos. An appeal to Kahnawake may be worthwhile.

 

[corrie1946]

Raj, thanks for your reply.
I did not use a card for depositing but Ideal.
Furthermore I wrote already that this is not a problem at reliable casinos like unibet, kroon and others.
Really, my 5 euros are as much as 5 euros from my wifes bankaccount. And only 1 euro was necessary
In case CR would have any doubts if I perhaps stole these 5 euros first from a stranger and then deposited it to them, a clientfriendly casino could have asked more info before conviscating or even placec the amount back on your player account.

 

[corrie1946]

Hi vynilweatherman, no my wife did not have an account at CR , we play fair, together most times and not trying to get double chances.
Thks for your reply.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi vynilweatherman, no my wife did not have an account at CR , we play fair, together most times and not trying to get double chances.
Thks for your reply.

CR have been hit so often by these "double chancers" on this offer that they are likely to assume the worst. Maybe they believe that the "mistake" you made was in not covering your tracks well enough and making that slip-up of using your wife's bank account is what they think "busts" you as a "chancer" who is up to no good.

These other casinos are familiar with you as a player, so are more likely to accept you and your wife sharing and exchanging funding methods, and/or playing the same account. CR do not know you, so your first impression with them has been to do something that looks dodgy, and only try to set the record straight AFTER you win €500.

It is also against the terms of these other "reputable" casinos to do what you have done, but some will allow it by prior arrangement. Had you discussed this in advance with CR they may not have been so harsh, although they may have told you to not do it, or for your wife to register her own account rather than use her bank account to deposit into yours.

You may even be in breach of the terms of use for Ideal, as they may think both accounts belong to you. Other eWallets allow several funding methods, but they must always belong to the account holder. The fact Ideal seem OK with this may be down to them not knowing, rather than approving. This could also be the case with these other casinos that have accepted this arrangement.

 

[Jasminebed]

Sorry you have learnt this lesson the hard way. If you read the casino terms and conditions (and it is the same most places), the method used to fund your account must be in your name. Even with permission from your spouse, this rule is not normally waived.

This rule is in place to protect people who may have had their credit card information either stolen, or misused by someone with access to their card details, like a family or household member.

The $5 deposit should be refunded to the source however. Otherwise there is a failure to protect the card holder who is not the account holder.

I hope either you or Renee can update when the $5 is refunded.

 

[Jasminebed]

I think you would be wise to clarify with the other casinos, and get it in writing, that this shared funding between spouses is acceptable.

Some withdrawals get more review than others. A certain number are audited randomly, sign-up bonuses, and large amounts.

If you don't have it in writing from your other casinos, you might find yourself in a for shock at some future date with a big win, for the exact same reasons as Casino Rewards.

CR have been hit so often by these "double chancers" on this offer that they are likely to assume the worst. Maybe they believe that the "mistake" you made was in not covering your tracks well enough and making that slip-up of using your wife's bank account is what they think "busts" you as a "chancer" who is up to no good.

These other casinos are familiar with you as a player, so are more likely to accept you and your wife sharing and exchanging funding methods, and/or playing the same account. CR do not know you, so your first impression with them has been to do something that looks dodgy, and only try to set the record straight AFTER you win €500.

It is also against the terms of these other "reputable" casinos to do what you have done, but some will allow it by prior arrangement. Had you discussed this in advance with CR they may not have been so harsh, although they may have told you to not do it, or for your wife to register her own account rather than use her bank account to deposit into yours.

You may even be in breach of the terms of use for Ideal, as they may think both accounts belong to you. Other eWallets allow several funding methods, but they must always belong to the account holder. The fact Ideal seem OK with this may be down to them not knowing, rather than approving. This could also be the case with these other casinos that have accepted this arrangement.

 

[homerbert]

one of the worst (is this mean bad?) not sure) MG group in the world. Hate them so much, for their idiotic everyday spam...
Also i believe that casino, that want really will be nice for players, and had nice reputation, should made really good investigation about cases like this. I mean if player really had only 1 account, but deposit from wife acc, casino should pay. Because if player lost, everything ok, and nobody ban player, but when player win, they ban.

 

[Tirilej]

one of the worst (is this mean bad?) not sure) MG group in the world. Hate them so much, for their idiotic everyday spam...
Also i believe that casino, that want really will be nice for players, and had nice reputation, should made really good investigation about cases like this. I mean if player really had only 1 account, but deposit from wife acc, casino should pay. Because if player lost, everything ok, and nobody ban player, but when player win, they ban.

That's because the casino don't know he uses his wife's account until he tries to cash out.

I don't get it really. Why use someone elses account for such a small sum of money?
I don't think it's even legal, at least not here, to use, pay or shop or anything with someone elses money. A couple that share their economy usually have only one that both can use.
I'm sorry if I sounds rough, but this is my thoughts of this issue.

 

[homerbert]

hm, ITS HIS WIFE
he take just 5$, who cares it? Also, if she know it, it cant be problem!

 

[corrie1946]

Jasmine bed, big win ? 500 euros i am talking about which CR conviscated.
Honestly won, beating wagering req. and being lucky above all ofcourse.
If i go to a land based casino nobody is asking me if the 5 euros i deposit are mine or from somebody else and even if they are from somone else , if i win they pay me out. Not that this ever happened to me but you know what i mean.
One step further and the internet casinos want to know how you earned your 5 euros which you deposited , guess why they would ask if you request for a withdrawal.
At least CR did not ask me any question about my deposit from my wifes bankaccount before I requested a withdrawal.
As for me, let me be honest, CR is a cheap company , a bunch of losers. But I may be wrong, find it out yourselve
Same as companies like Platinum etc, offering you more bonuses by mail, whilst pending withdrawals.
Fair gambling is you gamble money and then winning or losing,not having terms and conditions which make it even more difficult with your chances to win. I will keep it on casinos like Unibet, Kroon and some others in the future, not for the winning chances but for the reasonable conditions when you win. I will start a webpage soon, in Holland, about these facts concerning internetcasinos, there must come an end to this. Gambling is your own responsability and maybe not a clever way of doing things but why must we accept to be foold twice or more?
(sorry for my bad english language maybe, i do my best) I wish to end this with wishing good luck to everybody who gambles and congrats when you later receive your earned money.

 

[aceking123]

Jasmine bed, big win ? 500 euros i am talking about which CR conviscated.
Honestly won, beating wagering req. and being lucky above all ofcourse.
If i go to a land based casino nobody is asking me if the 5 euros i deposit are mine or from somebody else and even if they are from somone else , if i win they pay me out. Not that this ever happened to me but you know what i mean.
One step further and the internet casinos want to know how you earned your 5 euros which you deposited , guess why they would ask if you request for a withdrawal.
At least CR did not ask me any question about my deposit from my wifes bankaccount before I requested a withdrawal.
As for me, let me be honest, CR is a cheap company , a bunch of losers. But I may be wrong, find it out yourselve
Same as companies like Platinum etc, offering you more bonuses by mail, whilst pending withdrawals.
Fair gambling is you gamble money and then winning or losing,not having terms and conditions which make it even more difficult with your chances to win. I will keep it on casinos like Unibet, Kroon and some others in the future, not for the winning chances but for the reasonable conditions when you win. I will start a webpage soon, in Holland, about these facts concerning internetcasinos, there must come an end to this. Gambling is your own responsability and maybe not a clever way of doing things but why must we accept to be foold twice or more?
(sorry for my bad english language maybe, i do my best) I wish to end this with wishing good luck to everybody who gambles and congrats when you later receive your earned money.

hi pointless having a moan @ jas the point is that money has indeed come from your wifes account , you should of made sure that the account was in her name then you wouldnt be here moaning about them taking your 500 quid , not your 500 to point out its your wifes 500 quid ) , there far to much fraud online as it is now , yes you both have the same account but you both also have different account numbers there is where the problem is ,you should of been upfront with them take it on the chin move on & dont take it out on meister members here there only giving out a different look & advice & good advice , i see it as youve taken moneys from your wifes account yes it well maybe your moneys but the fact is you should of used the proper account details , best of luck in future & please dont take it the wrong way )

 

[corrie1946]

Homerbert lol. She knew it, was sitting next to me.
As a matter of fact, we only deposited 5 euros , knowing and experienced 9 of 10 of those internetcasinos in the meantime, having pitty with pple who did not experience these kind of internetcasinos and depositing 100, 500 or more.
By the way, am curious for a serious reply on this from casinomeister and or rene, come on rene, call this blackmail in public.
Tell me and readers you find this term / condition fair, whilst at least not sending back the famous 5 euros.:notworthy

 

[Jasminebed]

I do actually find the term fair, the confiscation of the winnings.

I don't find it fair not to refund the money.

When I talked about a big win corrie, I meant if you go and read the terms at the casinos you play at, you will find the exact same term about deposits being from account in your name. And if you don't have authorization from the casino, you might find a large win or a random audit picks it up at some point.

The casino cannot see that your wife is sitting right beside you and consents to her account being used. And I don't think they will take her word for it after the fact. People lie all the time to protect their spouses or family.

If it is no problem at your other casinos, I'm sure they will be happy to confirm this for you if you don't already have written exemption. What I am trying to tell you that it might just be they have not noticed if you have not expressly been granted permission.

Now, if you go to a land-based casino, they don't know if you snitched a $20 bill out of your wife's purse. But if you go to the cashier's cage with your wife's Visa card in hand to get a cash advance, they are not going to give you one.

There are many people with gambling addictions who do NOT have their spouses permission to use their money to gamble.

At some point you failed to read and understand the terms and conditions.

 

[Tirilej]

In a way it's maybe blackmailing, but if you go back and read all the answers you have recieved, I can only find one that's agreeing with you, and to be honest, he didn't see your wife sitting next to you either.
We just have your words for it...and you still broke their rules.
Even if I never would play at any of their casinos since I don't like them,I can fully understand why they can't and won't pay you.

It's maybe a good thing that you posted this really, because there are always newbies that don't know about this rule and now we have had a chance to enlighten them

 

[corrie1946]

Hi Mr.Jones, you seem to forget that CR accepted the deposit which was from my wifes bankaccountnummer and she was not the registrated. That appeared not to be a problem. And again, here at home its not a problem, we play together and use our mutual bankaccounts whenever we like to do so.
And as said again, this is not a problem for the most other (relionable) casinos i know of , like unibet etc.
Just tell me, what would be wrong if CR asked me later more info about the deposit before they should pay the withdrawal?
Would that not have been a descent clientfriendly manner?

I do not really care about the 500 euro, told CR already a week ago they can keep it, invested only 5 euro after all which is my loss, my problem and objection is that this is not fair gambling with these terms and conditions of some internetcasinos.
Unless CR is part of a police dept

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Mr.Jones, you seem to forget that CR accepted the deposit which was from my wifes bankaccountnummer and she was not the registrated. That appeared not to be a problem. And again, here at home its not a problem, we play together and use our mutual bankaccounts whenever we like to do so.
And as said again, this is not a problem for the most other (relionable) casinos i know of , like unibet etc.
Just tell me, what would be wrong if CR asked me later more info about the deposit before they should pay the withdrawal?
Would that not have been a descent clientfriendly manner?

I do not really care about the 500 euro, told CR already a week ago they can keep it, invested only 5 euro after all which is my loss, my problem and objection is that this is not fair gambling with these terms and conditions of some internetcasinos.
Unless CR is part of a police dept

Since you mention Unibet;

3.7 An Account Holder can only make a deposit with his personal Card or via his personal account created with one of the Financial Institutions or their licensees.

This is the Unibet term, and is no different to the one at Casino Rewards. Using your wife's bank account at Unibet is just as much a breach of the terms as it was at Casino Rewards. It seems more likely that Unibet haven't spotted it, whereas Casino Rewards have. You are at considerable risk of having a similar problem at these other casinos should you have a noteworthy win that leads to a more thorough audit.

The thorough audit at Casino Rewards is probably because you won from the welcome offer, one that has been hit heavily by chancers and fraudsters, which has meant that CR do a stringent audit of ALL withdrawals from this bonus, which is how they spotted this discrepancy. These thorough audits usually only get done on a withdrawal, so the deposit managed to slip through. They may even have not spotted it had you won from a later deposit from your own account.

It would be best to contact these other casinos at a time when you have no balance or pending withdrawals, and get it in writing that they are happy for you both to continue using this same arrangement.

A better way would be to transfer money between yourselves through your bank, rather than through the online casino payment systems. Casinos would then see the deposits come from your bank in the same way a land casino sees €20 given to you by your wife before you enter the gaming area as coming from your own pocket in play.

As for online casinos wanting to know how you earned your deposit, this has actually happened!!! Although not common, a few online casinos have asked for "proof of employment" or a statement of wealth. Their reasoning is that it helps them spot potential "problem gamblers" who might be getting in too deep.

 

[corrie1946]

Hi Jasmine Bed, you are talking nonsense now.
A landbased cannot see where you have your 5 euro from, internetcasinos do. I mean who pays the deposit.
If it it is not from the registrated person they can refuse the deposit immediately.
But why should they, he.
Unless you have to pay out withdrawals later..
Today I have spoken a lot of persons about this matter, about internetcasinos, terms/conditions etc etc.

To hell with losses and profits, gambling is your own responsability, I made the mistake to start playing at a internetcasino with unreasanable conditions. I only blame myselve and CR.
But really there must come an end to this. With or without Casinomeisters help, and I really appreciate the opportunity from them to get published this item.
I accept that gambling sites create a 50/40 percentage in their advantage, but I will not ever again accept sites like CR.
Up to you readers to act otherwise. And if you do , take care abt bonus terms as well Good luck.

 

[homerbert]

i repeated, if her wife can confirm that she agreed with this transcation, HE SHOULD get winnings. Or casino should block immideatly all transactions like this. I understand, that casino its not so nice, like we all want, but let imagine, you and your wife come to shop, and buy some stuff, you just taking items, your wifes paid for this(you give her all your money, for example). But in the shop told that you are thief, and call police. Funny? Yes. I bellieve that for example 32red or 3dice will see that problem and pay, but CR wont pay, they dont care their reputation. If user fraud, just prove it, and we dont ask any questions! But there is fair play, why dont pay this 500 euro???? User will told his friends, will post on forums, that casino okay! Casino only win with this. I think that we, gamblers, should help another gamblers, and only if we will be together, we can help each other. Casino will fear, and dont cheat players.
Just my opinion.

 

[vinylweatherman]

i repeated, if her wife can confirm that she agreed with this transcation, HE SHOULD get winnings. Or casino should block immideatly all transactions like this. I understand, that casino its not so nice, like we all want, but let imagine, you and your wife come to shop, and buy some stuff, you just taking items, your wifes paid for this(you give her all your money, for example). But in the shop told that you are thief, and call police. Funny? Yes. I bellieve that for example 32red or 3dice will see that problem and pay, but CR wont pay, they dont care their reputation. If user fraud, just prove it, and we dont ask any questions! But there is fair play, why dont pay this 500 euro???? User will told his friends, will post on forums, that casino okay! Casino only win with this. I think that we, gamblers, should help another gamblers, and only if we will be together, we can help each other. Casino will fear, and dont cheat players.
Just my opinion.

The problem with online transactions is HOW to prove that it really is the wife confirming permission has been given. Unless they both fly to Australia to confirm this in person, there will always be some doubt. In a shop, even a casino, one can see that there really are two people, and that one has willingly given money to the other for a transaction.

Where this type of thing has been allowed by prior arrangement, it has usually meant both parties sending their documents to the casino, along with a signed consent, all BEFORE the arrangement is used.

A spouse playing on the other's account is more usual for this kind of sharing arrangement, and without a webcam trained on the player, there is no way the casino can tell this is happening. Allowing someone else's account to be used for deposits is an open invitation to fraudsters to take advantage of such arrangements. It is not unknown for one spouse to defraud the other, and in fact it is easier to pull off as they have access to each other's personal information.

 

[homerbert]

The problem with online transactions is HOW to prove that it really is the wife confirming permission has been given. Unless they both fly to Australia to confirm this in person, there will always be some doubt. In a shop, even a casino, one can see that there really are two people, and that one has willingly given money to the other for a transaction.

Where this type of thing has been allowed by prior arrangement, it has usually meant both parties sending their documents to the casino, along with a signed consent, all BEFORE the arrangement is used.

A spouse playing on the other's account is more usual for this kind of sharing arrangement, and without a webcam trained on the player, there is no way the casino can tell this is happening. Allowing someone else's account to be used for deposits is an open invitation to fraudsters to take advantage of such arrangements. It is not unknown for one spouse to defraud the other, and in fact it is easier to pull off as they have access to each other's personal information.

hm, i dont know how its in english, but in russian was one phrase, that only who tell that someone scam, should proove it, just i think using not your own account its carding, when you using absolutely unknown you people money, if its your wife money, its ok, for my opinion.
And also as i think, if MAXd or casinomeister will say to CR that they dont right, they will agree, because from ALL internet forums/sites only this site can do something with casinos
For example, 500 euro in my country is VERY BIG MONEY, because average earn is 300-350$ , so i think, i am repeating, we, gamblers, should help each other, and its only way to keep thing right. If CR show as that this player cheat, have few account, or other, we will agree. But they just take his money. Its bad!

 

[Nifty29]

Homerbert - you're saying we should make exceptions to the rules as its his wife. So when does that stop? cousins? Uncles? Sorry, but you're allowing emotion to cloud your common sense.


Corrie - you didnt READ the terms and conditions, and hence you broke them. You're an idiot (you said twice I could call you that). Move on.

 

[corrie1946]

Hi Nifty, I moved on indeed, played slotmachines at Kroon Casino, won, and guess what.
They will pay my withdrawal and dont ask how I paid my deposit, probably because they accepted my deposit..
Rene, pse dont start about money laundering issues, the deposit was 5 euro, 1 euro was sufficient for your casino

I agree with everybody who says I had to read all terms and conditions, but that still does not make this particular term less crazy.
My opinion is that if a casino accepts your deposit at first, this should not be an issue later on when you request for a withdrawal.
It would not have been a problem for me if CR paid the withdrawal to my wifes account after all.

If a casino acts as I described above, for me it smells like trying to avoid paying profits to their clients.
Just wanted to let other players know this (my) experience with CR about this matter, its up to you to have another opinion ofcourse.
Wish you all good luck with gambling and above all where you prefer to start gambling.

Casinomeister, Rene warned me that you probably would block me from your site when I published this story.
Please give me and other readers your opinion and block me after I had the possibility to read your opinion if you want to do that.
It will not be easy but i can live with it.
In the meantime, thanks for giving me the opportunity to write this item, great site you have !

 

[The Dude]

....
As for me, let me be honest, CR is a cheap company , a bunch of losers. But I may be wrong, find it out yourselve ...

Flaming.

Hi Jasmine Bed, you are talking nonsense now...

Flaming.

...Casinomeister, Rene warned me that you probably would block me from your site when I published this story.
Please give me and other readers your opinion and block me after I had the possibility to read your opinion if you want to do that.
It will not be easy but i can live with it. ..

No, she warned me that you threatened them to use this forum as a way to get paid. It didn't take long. Where've you been?

From corrie1946 to Casino Rewards.

....As said before at all other casinos where we play very regularly this is never a problem.
Personally I see this as an criminal act, a very cheap way of actting, something for losers in your industry.
(by the way, I asked to send the withdrawal to my moneybookers account).
Before I will post this (my story) overhere at Casinomeisyerforum and also on various Dutch Casino forums where i am a member of I would like to know your opinion abt this and am interested to hear from you abt this. Thanks in advance for your reply, I will wait for it before I publish further abt this experience.

1.17 - Exploiting Your Membership Do not threaten casino operations with blackmail. Mentioning that you are a member is fine, but don't try to instill fear in a casino operation by threatening to post bad reviews or roguing them. Leave the roguing to Casinomeister - it's tricky business and not for amateurs.

Ironically, I believe corrie1946 is actually the wife's account in this forum

You broke their terms and conditions. Get over it - move on. Renee told you there was nothing that she could do and referred you to eCOGRA. You could have gone there, or Kahnawake, or even Pitched a Bitch here. But you decided to exploit your membership instead. That's not good.

Give me a reason why I shouldn't shut your account down.

 

[hakapuku]

-------

 

[raj]

I can speak about how I would handle this on my own site, if I discovered the named holder of the account was different from the name of persons payment method funding the account I would lock the account, contact the account holder, and in all likelyhood void all wagers made using the said funds.

I beleive most operators, whether accredited here or not would do exactly the same, and i challenge any igaming rep to post that their operation would handle this situation differently.

This is as much for the PROTECTION of players and their families/friends as anything else.

THE RULES

You register with your own correct details ONCE.
You fund the account using a method which matches the details above.
You play fair and within the rules and meet WR's
You withdraw back to a chosen payment method in your own name/details.

At some point depending on the win or for other security reasons , the casino may require you to supply documentry evidance of any of the above stages.

If you comply with all this you get paid, I don't beleive that bonus abuse, or not in the spirit of the bonus rules are good reasons for not paying, but failing to comply with the basic and logical steps above certainly are good reason not to pay a customer.

Raj

 

[corrie1946]

Casinomeister, I sent an email last week wednesday to the Riskmanager of this Group that as for me they can keep the 500 euro as I dont want anything to do with them anymore.
This I told Rene also.
So why does Rene and now you also accuse me of trying to get my money via this way ?
Even accusing me of blackmail... Maybe I dont understand this word correctly but with blackmail somebody wants something from another person, is it not? I just wanted to publish this story as I find it not correct the way CR handled this.

A police-officer along the road discovers a car with a couple in it, driving too fast and he stops that car.
The woman next to the driver appaers pregnant and the baby is being born almost, they are in a rush on their way to the hospital.
Now the police-officer still can give the driver a ticket for violation of the speedlimit ( according to the RULES and TERMS),
but he can also get in his car, dont give a ticket, and escort the other car to the hospital with sirens on.
I think you will understand where I am getting at, it has to do with customerfriendly acting.

Dear Casinomeister, I like your site, I really do. But I am 59 years old and only member now for 2 months or so.
Dont know how but I managed to live 59 years without your forum. It would be a pity for me but feel free if you decide to block me as a member of your site.
with best regards
corrie1946

 

[bpb]

Casinos are allowed to freeroll here. Deposit and lose, the casino says nothing and hopes there isn't a chargeback. Deposit and win, and the winnings are voided.

It's very simple for the casino to prevent the player from depositing via a method using someone else's name. I think comparing names was possible with punchcards in the 50s. I'm very sure it's within the abilities of the casino software developers today, if they can find time in between cranking out their 2 slot clones/week. It doesn't happen though, because it would cost the casinos revenue.

I don't think accredited casinos (and I know CR isn't one) should allow players to fall into confiscation traps over issues that can be prevented by a simple name comparison. Personal responsibility is all well and good, but why doesn't the casino have some responsibility to implement the most basic of software checks to ensure that their terms aren't accidentally broken?

 

[Tirilej]

Casinos are allowed to freeroll here. Deposit and lose, the casino says nothing and hopes there isn't a chargeback. Deposit and win, and the winnings are voided.

It's very simple for the casino to prevent the player from depositing via a method using someone else's name. I think comparing names was possible with punchcards in the 50s. I'm very sure it's within the abilities of the casino software developers today, if they can find time in between cranking out their 2 slot clones/week. It doesn't happen though, because it would cost the casinos revenue.

I don't think accredited casinos (and I know CR isn't one) should allow players to fall into confiscation traps over issues that can be prevented by a simple name comparison. Personal responsibility is all well and good, but why doesn't the casino have some responsibility to implement the most basic of software checks to ensure that their terms aren't accidentally broken?

I don't agree with you.
I wonder instead why someone would be so stupid and use someone elses name? As others have said, in that case they can chose anyones account.
I always wonder when someone wants to know about casinos that don't require documents, if this is what they have in mind. Don't you?

I believe the casinos would like us to be verified before deposits, because every deposit made of frauds are costing the casinos money.
Why in the world would they like to pay for that? Especially since they have to pay extra to return the money to the real cardowner, or whatever have been used.

The softwaresuppliers could maybe do something, but as long as we are not willing to get verified before we deposit, then it's the casinos rules that must be followed.

 

[bpb]

I wonder instead why someone would be so stupid and use someone elses name? As others have said, in that case they can chose anyones account.

Since when was intelligence a prerequisite to gamble online? I'm pretty sure casinos would prefer to have morons chomping at the bit to get a chance to piss away their money on games with 5%+ house edges. Instead, those casinos seem to want lawyers adept at reading every inch of the sites T&C.

If you presented your wife's credit card at a B&M casino and asked for a cash advance, would they give it to you, and then wait until you've won and tried to cash in your chips before confiscating them? No ... they would hand you back the card right away and tell you that you can't use someone else's card. The online places can easily check that you're depositing with your own card before ever charging it. They choose not to because it gives them an opportunity to keep losses and confiscate winnings.

That 98% of the people on this board support this is not surprising, but it is disheartening.

 

[Tirilej]

I know it's as many rogue casinos as there are frauds out there, but the ones I play in I try to believe they are honest normal people trying to do a good job. Like any other salesman.
I don't think it's that easy.

My wife's creditcard? Maybe my husband's, but never my wife's

 

[corrie1946]

It seems to me there is also a misunderstanding about my way of paying the deposit. Me and my wife always use Ideal.
Its a direct banktransfersystem.
I believe this system is not so familiar / well known, but it is very poular overhere in Holland.
I did not use a creditcard of my wife, i try to explain in my best english...

we have the same bank, only different bankaccountnumbers. when you want to pay via Ideal this Ideal site redirects you straight with your chosen bank (I believe 7 or 8 banks in Holland work with this system). After you have chosen your bankname you have the opportunity to fill out from which bankaccount you want to pay, so my wife can pay bills (or deposits in this case) from her and my account and vice versa, we have one code for this Ideal system which we can use both.
Now sometimes we pay from her accountnumber and sometimes from mine,we know this from eachother and is not an issue for us.
So therefor you maybe understand better and believe me we had no bad purpose at all, the more as we do this also at other casinos mentioned before and this is never been a problem up till now. Not with depositing and not with withdrawals.
Can be other casinos like unibet have the same terms and condtions as one commenter wrote, but I can assure you from my own experiences that they dont use this as an escape not to pay withdrawals. I call THAT customerfriendly.
In other cases we sometimes experienced that an internetcasino only wanted to pay withdrawal to the same account as where the deposit came from, this is also not a problem for us.

 

[corrie1946]

Dear Casinomeister,
Yesterday and also today I checked your site several times, to find your answer to my question here above: why does Rene and you accuse me of trying to get the 500 euros won with this posting?
Now I fully understand you have more things to do, you must be a very busy man.
Allow me to mention this, if you want written proof of the email conversations between that Risk manager of last week wednesday and me, if you want written proof of the email conversations between Rene and me, all this before I started this topic and confirming also to Rene that it is not my intention to still receive the 500 euro, in fact I did not want to receive it anymore, just let me know.
That is to say , if Rene agrees ofcourse to let you have copies of our private messages.
If you dont want to receive, if you dont appreciate it, then please give me your opinion about the message you seem to have received from Rene about me / my intentions.
I simply contacted Rene by mail first to ask her honest opinion about this all, is that not what you recommend ? Contact the person in charge first.
Why not a PAB? I dont want the money won and you are a busy man.
I am a very patient person, so I hope you will find the time somewhere in due course to give me your reply here, dont hurry. Let say I will check again in a few weeks after today, unless ofcourse you blocked me before that moment.
PS: i have read today that article about the Pirate and his million.
Correct me if I am wrong, but was it you who wrote ( something like this) :
dont cheat me with false info. Did you read that article also Rene?

 

[datch]

.

just want to say that i play at CR-Group for years, had deposits and lots of withdrawals and they never ever asked me for any documents. i made the WR for the same promotion like the OP (at quatro and also at nostalgia) and cashed out without any problems or questions for documents. maybe i am just a lucky one...

 

[vinylweatherman]

The Ideal system must show the merchant (casino) the account details used to fund a purchase, otherwise CR would have no way of knowing the deposit came from your wife's account. The problem is that the underlying accounts are still separate, rather than joint, even though they are with the same bank. The other casinos may not have noticed this because of the deposits having come via Ideal. One day some other casino will notice, even one that currently has not, and void a further win.

The best way forward is to ONLY use your own account when depositing via Ideal, and where necessary, get your wife to transfer the money to you via your bank (online banking?) rather than making the deposit directly from your wife's account.

The next best is to obtain prior WRITTEN approval from the casino that they will accept both you and your wife funding and playing the same household casino account. Some casinos WILL accept such an arrangement if asked beforehand. Usually, they will need documents from both persons involved in such an arrangement, perhaps including a declaration from your wife that she gives permission for her bank account as well as yours being used to fund the deposits.

It is not just CR that will take exception to this practice, most other operators will. The exception may well be those casinos you are currently playing at, and this is your first taste of what is considered normal practice within the industry. Luckily €500 is not a massive loss, it could have been a progressive payout that got voided, which would have been a very expensive way to learn this lesson.

 

[corrie1946]

thanks vinylweatherman

Sorry for my late reply, havent been able to read (problem with my eyes) anything for abt 2 months, just this morning i saw your comment.
I guess you are right and thanks for your comment.
Anyhow, as for the gambling I keep it on the 2 sites mentioned. Fast pay outs, no problems for 2 years now, no silly cheques or spam mails.
Asked Unibet abt my story with CR, did not tell it happened and or with which casino, they told me that they would have asked first more info before voiding. If its true, I dont know.

Casinomeister, thank you also for giving me your opinion abt that warning from Rene even before I started this topic.

Dont bother any further for one reason not to block me as a member, its your not-giving a reply on my question here above plus the fact that in the past I had some very nasty experiences with both Platinum (still continuing, spam mails from this group) and seeing the fact just recently I had to wait 14 days for a withdrawal from 32Red,(and they had our docs from earlier withdrawals) both accredited casinos, that convinces me being a member here is totally worhtless :notworthy
Will save you the trouble, you wont see me posting or logging in again.

To everybody, wish you lots of succes and many many jackpots in the future !

 

[Nifty29]

Sorry for my late reply, havent been able to read (problem with my eyes) anything for abt 2 months, just this morning i saw your comment.
I guess you are right and thanks for your comment.
Anyhow, as for the gambling I keep it on the 2 sites mentioned. Fast pay outs, no problems for 2 years now, no silly cheques or spam mails.
Asked Unibet abt my story with CR, did not tell it happened and or with which casino, they told me that they would have asked first more info before voiding. If its true, I dont know.

Casinomeister, thank you also for giving me your opinion abt that warning from Rene even before I started this topic.

Dont bother any further for one reason not to block me as a member, its your not-giving a reply on my question here above plus the fact that in the past I had some very nasty experiences with both Platinum (still continuing, spam mails from this group) and seeing the fact just recently I had to wait 14 days for a withdrawal from 32Red,(and they had our docs from earlier withdrawals) both accredited casinos, that convinces me being a member here is totally worhtless :notworthy
Will save you the trouble, you wont see me posting or logging in again.

To everybody, wish you lots of succes and many many jackpots in the future !

Seeya.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out now

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry for my late reply, havent been able to read (problem with my eyes) anything for abt 2 months, just this morning i saw your comment.
I guess you are right and thanks for your comment.
Anyhow, as for the gambling I keep it on the 2 sites mentioned. Fast pay outs, no problems for 2 years now, no silly cheques or spam mails.
Asked Unibet abt my story with CR, did not tell it happened and or with which casino, they told me that they would have asked first more info before voiding. If its true, I dont know.

Casinomeister, thank you also for giving me your opinion abt that warning from Rene even before I started this topic.

Dont bother any further for one reason not to block me as a member, its your not-giving a reply on my question here above plus the fact that in the past I had some very nasty experiences with both Platinum (still continuing, spam mails from this group) and seeing the fact just recently I had to wait 14 days for a withdrawal from 32Red,(and they had our docs from earlier withdrawals) both accredited casinos, that convinces me being a member here is totally worhtless :notworthy
Will save you the trouble, you wont see me posting or logging in again.

To everybody, wish you lots of succes and many many jackpots in the future !

These other problems should be telling you that this arrangement is NOT acceptable to operators. 32Red took 14 days to decide it was OK to pay you. This is a very BAD sign that you should stop considering this arrangement as being OK just because a casino has not yet objected to it. It is almost certain it is a case of them not having spotted it, rather than them considering it OK.

Far from being "worthless", this site has given you advice that could prevent you having wins voided in the future because of this arrangement. If Unibet are fine with it, it is because you asked first, not because it is OK in general.

 

[The Dude]

Dear Casinomeister, I like your site, I really do. But I am 59 years old and only member now for 2 months or so.
Dont know how but I managed to live 59 years without your forum. It would be a pity for me but feel free if you decide to block me as a member of your site.
with best regards
corrie1946

Umm - you're 5 years older than me. Is that supposed to mean anything? I don't get it.

Sorry for my late reply, havent been able to read (problem with my eyes) anything for abt 2 months, just this morning i saw your comment.
I guess you are right and thanks for your comment.
Anyhow, as for the gambling I keep it on the 2 sites mentioned. Fast pay outs, no problems for 2 years now, no silly cheques or spam mails.
Asked Unibet abt my story with CR, did not tell it happened and or with which casino, they told me that they would have asked first more info before voiding. If its true, I dont know.

Casinomeister, thank you also for giving me your opinion abt that warning from Rene even before I started this topic.

Dont bother any further for one reason not to block me as a member, its your not-giving a reply on my question here above plus the fact that in the past I had some very nasty experiences with both Platinum (still continuing, spam mails from this group) and seeing the fact just recently I had to wait 14 days for a withdrawal from 32Red,(and they had our docs from earlier withdrawals) both accredited casinos, that convinces me being a member here is totally worhtless :notworthy
Will save you the trouble, you wont see me posting or logging in again.

To everybody, wish you lots of succes and many many jackpots in the future !

I think your problem is how you are communicating. You don't communicate well. Many of your posts are incriminating and full of mistakes. I understand English is not your first language, but if you are going to label people as thieves, crooks, and make accusatory comments, make sure you are making good use of dictionaries and grammar/punctuation rules. Either that or get someone to help you. Many of your posts come across as rude.

I have no idea what your complaining about, but if you don't want to come back here then fine.

 

[griffon51]

my tuppence worth....

and thats probably over valuated.
Y'all can see that I am new in here and I dont post much,in fact over this there is a banner from casinomeisterland inviting me to take a few moments to get more involved, so here goes.
I have read thru' many threads in here trying to get the feel of it and the experience that gave me is that there is a great deal of grievance against the gambling houses of this world for taking our hard won cash and keeping it, seems like a business plan to me.
Most of the complaints seem to stem from, to put it politely,people who think they can retrospectively rewrite the rules to suit the way thy view the outcome of their own shortcomings.
There can be no doubt that some of these casino businesses are rougish and CM and its members have doubtless done a remarkable job in no other way than bringing their activities to all our attentions and thereby allowing us to make our own judgement as to whether we want to engage with them,and if some went under along the way then thats good too.The general concensus would seem to suggest that most do a good job and can be trusted to play fair and uphold their side of the bargain.
The bargain seems to fall apart when someone out in the world either in ignorance or with malicious intent tries to pull the wool over the eyes of a member of an industry that has been spotting wool pullers ever since way back when... They provide a service that is required by all in here and many more besides, is it too hard to adhere to the rules they have, and despite the different words they are basically all the same.
A disclaimer(cos someone is going to say it)I dont work in the business I am just a punter like the rest of you,that appreciates the fact that I can indulge in gambling activities in the comfort of my own environment at my own free will and like the rest of you I like to win and when I do I like to be paid and up till now thats all gone very smoothly simply because I read the terms and conditions I checked their credentials,I would add that when I lose that goes smoothly too and I never had any complaints from the casino either.
I cant get into the philosophy,I go with the notion that you put your money down and thats probably going to be the last you see of it,its gambling. THE pleasant surprise,and it should be is when you win and knowing when to stick it in your pocket and do something else.I dont really understand making a withdraw and cancelling it to play on,My own thinking and it is just that, is you just drew attention to yourself and someone wants their money back.
My apologies in advance if this post does not quite fit in the parameters of this thread but these are some of my thoughts prompted from reading a lot of posts that stem from the same origin.
The very best of good fortune to you all....Grif

 

[dreamguardian1]

No disrespect, and I understaand it's all completely innocent , but ANY casino where you use a payment card in a different name to that on the account is going to cause you problems IMHO.

Raj

This is a problem anywhere you go and I have it sometimes because I had a court ordered legal name change due to Victim of Domestic Violence. Bank account, credit cards still under birth name, BUT they all statements have AKA on them, are sent to me securely so i just send them securely a copy of the bank statement and court order showing both names allowed and problem resolved. You can usually beat them to the punch if you know this issue is going to come up by telling them and sending the documents in advance this way they have notice.

 

[michielm1]

this was so easy to avoid. if you just open a skrill (moneybookers) account in your name, deposit there with ideal, doesnt matter whose ideal this is, and from YOUR skrill account you deposit on YOUR casino account.

easy , legal , fast and you can also play in casino's where you cant deposit with ideal.

without verification you can transfer total 1000 euro with Skrill.
if you have your bank account (you dont have to deposit with your bank account, if you only withdraw to your account, thats ok), id and utility bill verified, you have a transaction limit of 21K for any 90 day period.

dus de volgende keer weet je het. bovendien, een heel aantal casino's vragen niet om al je documenten meer, als je een volledig geverifieerde Skrill moneybookers account hebt.

greets michiel

 

[michielm1]

oh enne IDEAL is alleen voor Nederlanders te gebruiken. vaak heb je casino's die ideal via skrill moneybookers aanbieden.

(translation: oh and ideal is only 4 Dutch people/banks. often you have casino's that offer Ideal deposits, but then you're re routed to moneybookers, where you can pay with ideal)

 

[corrie1946]

michielm1

Casinomeister, could you pse stop sending me emails ? Just a request, thanks in advance.
You asked me for giving you 1 reason not to ban me from your site, I tried to explain you that I am 59 years old, 58 years of it I managed to survive without being a member of your site, so dont ask for me a reason to ban me, just do it, am almost certain it will not influence the rest of my life

Thanks Michielm1 for your comments, just read it because of the invitation-mails i still receive from Casinomeister (in my mails) to read new private messages.

I know I could have avoided it, like others wrote earlier. Read TCs ...
I have a Moneybookers /Skrill account already for some years, using it , but at that time when I had this problem with CR group I used the direct Ideal possibility without Moneybookers , I just did not expect a problem because of the low necessary deposit obligation of only 1 or 2 euros.
Plus, as said before, we did the same many times before with Unibet and Kroon f.e. , never was a problem and we did not ask on beforehand if it was o.k. for them.
32Red is a nice casino , nice pple but no, the delayed payment which I received from them last time had nothing to do with this same problem. They just paid slow, slower than before. But these things can happen, no problem. Later on I got paid as usual, fast.
My grieve with CR was, and I stay to my opinion, a customerfriendly casino would have asked info before winnings and deposits became void. Thats all, and thats the way I started this topic, for no other reason as you can read above.

Casinomeister, as requested before, pse stop sending me email-messages, or do I have to ask Nifty for this to arrange?:notworthy
Man, your defence also with the Betfred /Finsoft case.... makes me crying.
A casino , at least not tested a game which they present, not paying back everybody who lost money with this rigged game, only paying back some pple over a certain period, but you keep them accredited...
Dont you understand it does not matter who published this? I would have said thank you to even a serial killer, thank you for the warning.
You do understand but without a doubt you have other interests. Bye and good luck with your site.

 

[bsilva028]

Casinomeister, could you pse stop sending me emails ? Just a request, thanks in advance.
You asked me for giving you 1 reason not to ban me from your site, I tried to explain you that I am 59 years old, 58 years of it I managed to survive without being a member of your site, so dont ask for me a reason to ban me, just do it, am almost certain it will not influence the rest of my life

Thanks Michielm1 for your comments, just read it because of the invitation-mails i still receive from Casinomeister (in my mails) to read new private messages.

I know I could have avoided it, like others wrote earlier. Read TCs ...
I have a Moneybookers /Skrill account already for some years, using it , but at that time when I had this problem with CR group I used the direct Ideal possibility without Moneybookers , I just did not expect a problem because of the low necessary deposit obligation of only 1 or 2 euros.
Plus, as said before, we did the same many times before with Unibet and Kroon f.e. , never was a problem and we did not ask on beforehand if it was o.k. for them.
32Red is a nice casino , nice pple but no, the delayed payment which I received from them last time had nothing to do with this same problem. They just paid slow, slower than before. But these things can happen, no problem. Later on I got paid as usual, fast.
My grieve with CR was, and I stay to my opinion, a customerfriendly casino would have asked info before winnings and deposits became void. Thats all, and thats the way I started this topic, for no other reason as you can read above.

Casinomeister, as requested before, pse stop sending me email-messages, or do I have to ask Nifty for this to arrange?:notworthy
Man, your defence also with the Betfred /Finsoft case.... makes me crying.
A casino , at least not tested a game which they present, not paying back everybody who lost money with this rigged game, only paying back some pple over a certain period, but you keep them accredited...
Dont you understand it does not matter who published this? I would have said thank you to even a serial killer, thank you for the warning.
You do understand but without a doubt you have other interests. Bye and good luck with your site.

the e-mails you are receving is only to read your private messages? i so, and if you dont wanna read it or be on the site
just close the account

 

[corrie1946]

bsilva028

Thanks for your advice:notworthy . I did not know that was also possible...
Dear bsilva028, I still log-in here sometimes, except from the friendly invitations of Casinomeister, because there are some pple, members, which opinion about various problems with internet casinos get my attention and respect,.Especially the ones who dont shout abt TCs in the first place to tell you what you did wrong, but see the unfairness in them first.
After all , when I decide to deposit money to a casino I know that my chance to win is a bit less than losing money.
No problem with that and to hell with all who try try to cheat any casino but it works both ways.
Ever read TCs ? Most of them have TCs which enable them to refuse a withdrawal because you have 2 eyes and 2 legs.
Fuck off with CR, deposit of 1 euro was obliged. If I ever wanted to cheat them, why should I (we) deposit 5 ?

1 euro was also one of their TC's at that time. I did read that one:notworthy

So , because of this all, and having read the right opinion of someone here above who mentioned this a free-roll for the casino, when you lose you will hear nothing, when you win you are in trouble and the casino dont even send the deposit money back to someone who was not allowed to play, you know enough.
You know what ? Nobody is asking you to start an internet-casino . If you do, do it with fair TCs and pay pple immediately or in a few days, when they deposit their money and win. At least communicate with pple instead of voiding first, when something goes wrong.
It was my warning about this CR group, nothing more or less.

 

[Nifty29]

Thanks for your advice:notworthy . I did not know that was also possible...
Dear bsilva028, I still log-in here sometimes, except from the friendly invitations of Casinomeister, because there are some pple, members, which opinion about various problems with internet casinos get my attention and respect,.Especially the ones who dont shout abt TCs in the first place to tell you what you did wrong, but see the unfairness in them first.
After all , when I decide to deposit money to a casino I know that my chance to win is a bit less than losing money.
No problem with that and to hell with all who try try to cheat any casino but it works both ways.
Ever read TCs ? Most of them have TCs which enable them to refuse a withdrawal because you have 2 eyes and 2 legs.
Fuck off with CR, deposit of 1 euro was obliged. If I ever wanted to cheat them, why should I (we) deposit 5 ?

1 euro was also one of their TC's at that time. I did read that one:notworthy

So , because of this all, and having read the right opinion of someone here above who mentioned this a free-roll for the casino, when you lose you will hear nothing, when you win you are in trouble and the casino dont even send the deposit money back to someone who was not allowed to play, you know enough.
You know what ? Nobody is asking you to start an internet-casino . If you do, do it with fair TCs and pay pple immediately or in a few days, when they deposit their money and win. At least communicate with pple instead of voiding first, when something goes wrong.
It was my warning about this CR group, nothing more or less.

I know English is not your first language, but it is clear enough for me to know that you don't have a clue.....about how to conduct yourself using online casinos, and how to behave in public fora.

I'm sure Casinomeister will attend to your BS, just as soon as he is finished doing far more important things, like shaving and sweeping the front path.

It's good to see karma at work here.....you didn't get your money.

 

[The Dude]

Hi Corrie,

Perhaps if you would snap out of your delusional fog, you would have realized I haven't defended anything but fairness. Also, if you don't want to recived any PMs from the administrator (moi), you can make that selcetion in your settings. But since you are unable to figure that out - amongst other things, I'd gladly close your account.

 

[michielm1]

Hi Corrie,

Perhaps if you would snap out of your delusional fog, you would have realized I haven't defended anything but fairness. Also, if you don't want to recived any PMs from the administrator (moi), you can make that selcetion in your settings. But since you are unable to figure that out - amongst other things, I'd gladly close your account.

took you long enough