Casino not paying my 400

[aaron]

Hi, Please help.

First of all, is it best not to mention the casino name here? I notice other complaints here do not mention the casino involved, but they usually involve more money than this one with me. This casino is a well known sportsbook and casino though, they are "a member of European Gaming and Betting Association and Remote Gambling Association" and are "a company incorporated in Malta".

My problem involves a casino/sportsbook that will not pay out 400. I have deposited 320 total with them, played at the casino and also placed a 100 sports bet (which lost). I have received a casino bonus from them, but I think I lost it and I definitely carried on playing anyway. ...I chased some losses a little bit on the site (But I can't log in and check my history, so I can't exactly remember what I've done there).

I think the best thing would be to quote my latest few emails, as they sum up what has happened. This long email, I sent to them after I got a bit angry with them on the phone.

company name edited out of quote:

Dear Sirs,

My ---- user name is: "----"

I am still awaiting a 400 withdrawal that I requested 22 days ago on
the 19/08/08 and also for my account to be unlocked.

Shortly after filling in the withdrawal form, I was requested to send
in some documents (including photographic ID), so I sent you my bank
card, drivers license and account statement via email on August 28. I
received an email stating that your security department were "not
convinced" by my drivers license, so, at your request, I emailed you
my passport on August 29.

I received no contact from you after this email so I phoned a few days
later and was told that you were now "unsatisfied" with my passport as
well, but I was given no explanation as to why or what to do, only
that I would be contacted in a day or so.

I waited 2 Weeks since then, so I have just phoned customer services
at around 5:20 am (BST) on September 10.

As I was still not given any better explanation of why there is a
problem, other than that I will be contacted when you are ready, I
became frustrated. I became further frustrated when the customer
service assistant I spoke to could not help but laugh at my annoyance,
and also told me that my situation was "hopeless".

I repeat what I told the assistant on the phone: Why should I not
believe that "----" is a scam website? ...and that you have no
intention, despite my extended cooporation of you requests, to ever
pay out my withdrawal?

Can you give me any reason to think otherwise? Do you think my
treatment, and lack of explanation, solution, or even contact is a
reasonable way for any trustworthy gaming site to carry out business?

Please bear in mind that I have deposited 320 to unibet and this was
accepted without a problem, it is only when requesting my 400
withdrawal that you have become "unsatisfied".

I'm afraid I have already waited too long, if I do not receive a
satisfactory solution via email by Friday this week (September 12), I
don't feel that I have any choice, other than to recover the full
amount of my deposits to unibet through my bank's (Lloyds) security
department. I believe I have enough evidence of negligent business
practice to pursue such a charge-back without a problem and am hopeful
that any further measures will not be needed.

After my previous phone conversation, let me make it clear that I do
NOT wish any further telephone liaison with you. I request that any
contact you may or may not attempt to make, be written via email.

Regards,

Aaron

Their reply:

Dear Customer,


Thank you for contacting us.

Please note that the documents you sent are not satisfactory and therefore will not be accepted. We are not to reveal as to why they will not be accepted as that would be malpractice.

Your account is to remain blocked and the funds not to be returned unless legitimate documents are received.

Thank you for your cooperation and do not hesitate to contact us once again if you require further assistance.



Best Regards,

----

My reply:

You said: "Your account is to remain blocked and the funds not to be
returned unless legitimate documents are received."...

Please then tell me what other "legitimate documents" I am supposed to send?

The documents I have sent are legitimate They are my drivers license
and passport and I have them with me right now. I used my friend's
scanner, so that the image is large and clear. I cannot see anything
wrong with them at all. Perhaps you have the files confused or mixed
up with a different customers? Perhaps it is because my address has
changed recently?

But as you are not telling me what the problem is, I have nothing I
can do about your request.

Regards,

Aaron

I feel like I've hit a brick wall. What can I do???

Obviously, it would help if I could post my passport and drivers license in question. I don't really mind showing them, but I obviously don't want to post the on to the internet (I'm even beginning to worry about ever sending them to this bookie). But anyway, they are normal UK documents and I sent them large, clear colour scans.

Thanks.

 

[aaron]

P.S: I don't have my own PC at the moment, so I am sorry if I am a bit slow in replying in future.

 

[Swede]

aaron:

I think it's fine to mention the name of the establishment(and you did ). This doesn't sound like Unibet at all, a well respected bookie/poker/casino in most people's opinion. If you'd like, you can PM me a scan of the documents you sent in(with all vital info blacked out, of course) and I'll tell you if they are good enough or need to be altered.

Swede

 

[aaron]

Thanks mate. Oops! I missed that bit - You've mentioned it to now too, so no point editing it out.

How can I send you the documents? Would I have to upload the documents as pictures to an image-hosting site first? I don't want to have to do that. Maybe a zip file with a password would be better, but I don't know where I could upload a large file like that for free and I don't even know if I'm able to do that either.

What about if you messaged me your email? Then I could send you an exact copy of what I sent to unibet.

 

[kauphy]

?

hi you say u don,t have ur own computer maybe it is the address thing if u were on a friends computer when u went to the casino. try updateing ur lic with the address that u now live at and see if that works or the address that is on ur account

 

[pubjoe]

My names Joe and I'm Aaron's friend and Uncle-in-Law. I know the situation he is in and I feel responsible, but I don't know how to help him.

I feel really awful at the moment as I recommended Aaron to play at unibet. Myself and other friends of mine have played there without any problems and I didn't expect any of this. I also told him to join here for advice.

Aaron can have a bit of a temper, so he got a bit rattled on the phone the other day, so it was me that recommended that he only deal with unibet in writing from now on.

He won't have access to a computer for the rest of tonight. But I can phone him and/or he can take his next step at some point tomorrow.

I regards to the thing above about not having a computer. He has used my computer to access unibet (as have others). I don't really understand what is wrong with that. I am aware of bonuses and the terms and conditions that casinos make about a single ip address and household, but this is not the concern in Aaron's situation. Furthermore, changing his registered address may or may not help, but his account is blocked and unless unibet actually tell him what the specific problem is, how is he supposed to resolve it? So far they have told him that it would be malpractice for them to tell him what exactly is wrong.



He has sent them his full id and they are still not satisfied. I am now having to persuade him to continue to chase this up, he feels ripped off and never wants to return to online gambling again. He sounds very close to considering this a loss and letting them keep his money.

I don't want Aaron to lose money unfairly on my advice ...and I don't like the idea of casinos getting away with that, as I'm sure they do too much already.

 

[Casinomeister]

Well, we're in luck since Unibet's rep signed up in the forum just yesterday.

@aaron - I'm guessing you've broken the casino's terms and conditions by playing on your uncle's computer. Most casinos have strict rules concerning this. I'm sure the rep might be able to look into this for you/us.

 

[aaron]

Thanks for help. I've had another email.

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting us.

We just received the following message from our security department:

Please inform the customer that we have found his passport not to be in standard and probably fake. We need them to send us a genuine document proving their identity and also a Birth Certificate to support their documents.

Best Regards,

So I sent back:

You said: "we have found his passport not to be in standard and probably fake"


It is my passport! I've had it for 3 years. You must have made some
sort of mix up with someone elses document.

Can't you check my serial number? It is:
****************************************

I have attached the file again incase there was a problem with it
getting to you in the first place. This time I have called the file
aaron.jpg so there can be no confusion.

Aaron

This is stupid. They also didn't like my drivers license either, which is why I had to send the passport. Do they not like my face?

If anyone wants to see the document, can you tell me how to send it? We can't figure out how to attach it to a private message here.

 

[pubjoe]

Just thought I'd bump up this thread for Aaron.

He can't be much bothered to keep pursuing this. I don't think he can find his birth certificate. Also, understand that he has come round to use my computer now on almost 10 occasions to email documents and reply to emails from them, while he has work and a young family to worry about.

I completely respect that he is beginning to consider further effort pointless, as so far, contacting the casino has not achieved anything as they will not enter into discussion with him.

I know he has not sent the documents to anyone here yet, but I can assure you his passport and drivers license are both genuine, there is nothing unusual about them. He has short hair on one photo and a shaved head on the other. This is hardly unusual though.

Has no one else here ever had this type of problem? What can he do? Pay to get the documents signed by a lawyer? I have never heard of this bizarre problem before.

In my opinion, the casino does not seem to want to resolve the issue either.

 

[zebedy]

if you dont mind being without your documents for a few weeks maybe you could send them to unibet by registered snail mail, that way they could really give them the once over, just an idea,

 

[pubjoe]

Just thought I'd bump up this thread for Aaron.

He can't be much bothered to keep pursuing this. I don't think he can find his birth certificate. Also, understand that he has come round to use my computer now on almost 10 occasions to email documents and reply to emails from them, while he has work and a young family to worry about.

I completely respect that he is beginning to consider further effort pointless, as so far, contacting the casino has not achieved anything as they will not enter into discussion with him.

I know he has not sent the documents to anyone here yet, but I can assure you his passport and drivers license are both genuine, there is nothing unusual about them. He has short hair on one photo and a shaved head on the other. This is hardly unusual though.

Has no one else here ever had this type of problem? What can he do? Pay to get the documents signed by a lawyer? I have never heard of this bizarre problem before.

In my opinion, the casino does not seem to want to resolve the issue either.

if you dont mind being without your documents for a few weeks maybe you could send them to unibet by registered snail mail, that way they could really give them the once over, just an idea,

Thanks.

I will suggest that to Aaron (I can't get through to him at the moment). Not sure if he's going to like the idea of trusting them with his documents though, given his experience so far. The scans are good clear copies anyway.

 

[Jasminebed]

if you dont mind being without your documents for a few weeks maybe you could send them to unibet by registered snail mail, that way they could really give them the once over, just an idea,

Well, I trust you were being droll Troll . You usually give sage advice, and that is the last route I would take. It would be hard to deny notorized copies. And if you are a passport holder, you should be able to swear an affidavit as to his identify as well.

It seems quite probable that if OP played from your computer, that could be a problem, but it does not seem to be the basis of Unibet's denial of his claim.

 

[aodat2]

if you dont mind being without your documents for a few weeks maybe you could send them to unibet by registered snail mail, that way they could really give them the once over, just an idea,

This is by far the absolute worst thing that anyone could ever be asked to do. If I was Unibet, I would have not even cared to look at it and sent the thing back without even touching it. They could be sued without end for taking your passport and etc. No way would any company want your real passport without you being there to show it to them.

Anyways, a Notarized copy would be a very good thing for them. Also if they would refuse that as well then get a copy of your passport and get the someone of authority to endorse it. That way, they wouldn't be able to say no to it definitely.

This would be the best way to prove that the passport is yours instead of sending them pictures and etc, just send them the original copy with the stamp and signature of the person who endorse it.

Hope this helps you get your money from them. I'm sure that it's something wrong with the picture, just get it notarized or soemthing and send it to them and I'm sure they will get it sorted out.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This is HIGHLY irregular. Unibet seem to have explained that the passport was a fake, and to the PLAYER!!!!

This does not usually happen, what normally happens is that a notarised copy is requested.

pubjoe comes on to say that many other people have come over to "use his computer" to play at Unibet. Well, expect PLENTY of problems with this, as you have been spectacularly lucky so far for this NOT to have caused a problem. Perhaps aaron has been the first to attempt to cash out from all those who have used this computer. Unibet would have a real mess to audit, with there seeming to be a multitude of players all seming to be at this one house, yet all having different details. The documents are probably NOT fake, the problem is down to them seeing one story from their back end audit, and another from the player's documents. Something can't be right, so they have to believe the documents are faked.

Something VERY odd is going on here, and when someone says

.....I am aware of bonuses and the terms and conditions that casinos make about a single ip address and household, but this is not the concern in Aaron's situation......

but goes on to let all their friends play from his computer and is then surprised when the trouble starts

I have to suspect a serious case of carelessness, and I expect the casino suspects a serious case of a player using several identities and multiple accounts.

 

[pubjoe]

Aaron's case was that he is not claiming winnings from a bonus. He has lost and won and redeposited at the casino beyond any bonuses.

Personally, I have allways been a frequent gambler for entertainment. I have a few friends that do the same. When I said "as have others", I meant that other people have also gambled online at my house, as I have at theirs (not usually at unibet). Nothing wrong with that is there? I can't be the only one who doesn't gamble alone.

Vinylweatherman, I said I understood that the ip address thing only comes into play for bonus abuse. I'm not aware that it is anything more serious than that. Has Aaron or myself done anything wrong exactly?

[edit]Fwiw, I consider myself a very good customer to the casinos I regularly play at (I probably wish I wasn't such a "good customer" - but there you go) and yes, I am surprised if there are any problems with me referring friends... In the past I've talked to a casinos CS on the phone about referring a friend and they merely said that he might not get a bonus if he uses your computer ...Fine.

Anyway, unibet have so far claimed his passport to be fake. I sincerely hope I have not caused problems for Aaron by his use of my computer. But I can't see the connection and I still can't see why it should be a problem.

 

[Casinomeister]

....But I can't see the connection and I still can't see why it should be a problem.

If someone sends in a fake passport, then there is obviously something wrong. Perhaps it is not two people - but one person who is using his computer and pretending to be more than one person.

You and Aaron share a computer, and he sends in a fake ID. Why isn't Aaron posting in the forum except for the first couple of posts? I'd like to hear more from Aaron and why he sent a faked ID to Unibet.

At least they are giving him a chance to scrounge up a real one.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Aaron's case was that he is not claiming winnings from a bonus. He has lost and won and redeposited at the casino beyond any bonuses.

Personally, I have allways been a frequent gambler for entertainment. I have a few friends that do the same. When I said "as have others", I meant that other people have also gambled online at my house, as I have at theirs (not usually at unibet). Nothing wrong with that is there? I can't be the only one who doesn't gamble alone.

Vinylweatherman, I said I understood that the ip address thing only comes into play for bonus abuse. I'm not aware that it is anything more serious than that. Has Aaron or myself done anything wrong exactly?

[edit]Fwiw, I consider myself a very good customer to the casinos I regularly play at (I probably wish I wasn't such a "good customer" - but there you go) and yes, I am surprised if there are any problems with me referring friends... In the past I've talked to a casinos CS on the phone about referring a friend and they merely said that he might not get a bonus if he uses your computer ...Fine.

Anyway, unibet have so far claimed his passport to be fake. I sincerely hope I have not caused problems for Aaron by his use of my computer. But I can't see the connection and I still can't see why it should be a problem.

You may not be doing anything wrong, but the casino only sees what comes down the internet to them. They can't come round your house and see all of you gambling together over a few beers

This kind of PC sharing causes no end of problems, and not just for the friends, but for YOU as well. NO experienced online gambler would EVER give their friends free reign to gamble from their internet connection without FIRST checking the position thoroughly with EACH CASINO involved BEFOREHAND.

While aaron may have lost overall, Unibet may be seeing that ALL the accounts at the house are ahead overall, and have between them used many bonuses that are intended as "one per household, computer, etc...".

At this stage, they ALREADY suspect something is going on, and any ID documents they request from these account holders are going to undergo thorough scrutiny.

What is surprising is that they simply say the passport is fake, rather than saying the documents do not match the details registered. For aaron to simply send in a different passport is NOT going to work, as it will only confirm that the first one was fake, and that therefore the account was fraudulent.

The other friends are storing up problems for the future, and these will come to light at the point of making withdrawals, as sadly, the casinos will take the deposits for YEARS on these accounts, even though a simple audit at withdrawal will raise a whole bunch of flags for them.

False ID has nothing to do with "bonus abuse", it is a matter of security, and the risk that the funds are "laundered money" being passed around through casino accounts, and especially sportsbook accounts.

 

[pubjoe]

Aaron posted here on my advice, as I wanted to help him receive good advice about what he could do next.

He set up an account and detailed his problem. I will remind him to post again when he's next here, but frankly, I can't see him being able to make a special trip for it at this moment, so it might be a little while.

I don't really think I should continue discussing ip addresses and online gambling parties on his thread, as I feel like we've derailed it now somewhat. But I am very interested, so I think I might like to start a new topic on the matter myself.

Aaron's situation is that he has sent in all the id they requested, none of it fake, yet he is being accused by unibet that his passport is fake. I don't see the point in speculating what the secret underlying problem that unibet haven't told him yet is.

I'm hoping, with your help here, to gather advice and encouragement for him.

My idea is that if he has his documents verified by a 3rd party (Myself as a passport holder? Or a paid Lawyer?), then unibet will have to agree that they are fine and pay him out, seeing as the one complaint that unibet have made to him, questions the validity of his document(s).

Is this not a good idea? Or can you foresee Aaron spending money on a lawers signature, only to have unibet then turn around and say "We've made our minds up now, we're happy with your passport, but we're now not paying up because of the location you connected to our website from."?

 

[Casinomeister]

Why can't Aaron access a computer BTW?

I'd like to hear from him - the player with a problem.

 

[pubjoe]

Why can't Aaron access a computer BTW?

I'd like to hear from him - the player with a problem.

Well he can, it's just that he starts work very early and goes home to his family when he finishes. The only computer that he regularly uses himself is his PS3. I've talked to him, but, shall we say, he's not very inspired by the whole thing at the moment.

He'll probably come down through the week at some point, so I'll get him to pop on here.

 

[pubjoe]

Why can't Aaron access a computer BTW?

I'd like to hear from him - the player with a problem.

Well he can, it's just that he starts work very early and goes home to his family when he finishes. The only computer that he regularly uses himself is his PS3. I've talked to him, but, shall we say, he's not very inspired by the whole thing at the moment.

He'll probably come down through the week at some point, so I'll get him to pop on here.

Oh. btw, What additional information shall I tell him you'd like to hear about.

I'm asking on his behalf now because otherwise, I know what will happen, trying to communicate from different time zones on an online message board, while he is round mine for a couple of hours is probably not going to work out very efficiently.

 

[Casinomeister]

This is forum is up and running 24/7, and we're nearly in the same timezone. I don't think a one hour difference is going to throw too much off.

What's the problem getting Aaron back on the forum? He uses your computer to access it, so invite the guy back over

 

[pubjoe]

This is forum is up and running 24/7, and we're nearly in the same timezone. I don't think a one hour difference is going to throw too much off.

What's the problem getting Aaron back on the forum? He uses your computer to access it, so invite the guy back over

I have. I'm just pointing out that a back and forth conversation is likely to take time, possibly at least a few days, or longer as it is now the start of the work week. The thing is, the last time I spoke to him, he is already very fed up and has had enough of barking up trees. He has been round almost 10 times over the last Month... Scanning documents, scanning more documents, sending emails, replying to further emails, posting on these forums. I truly want him to keep pursuing it until he gets paid, but unless his next action is a definite step forward, I know for a fact that he's not going to be hugely motivated. Is anyone else surprised here when I say "I don't blame him"?

He's pretty much explained everything he knows so far already and I've chimed in with additional information I thought might paint a bigger picture. Without him having had further contact from unibet, he may not think of much to talk about.

The reason you've ended up talking to me instead of him is that the matter of computer sharing derailed the topic somewhat with member's questions aimed at myself.

 

[Casinomeister]

400 GBPs is 400 GBPs. I've PMd him on a suggestion on making it happen.

 

[pubjoe]

400 GBPs is 400 GBPs. I've PMd him on a suggestion on making it happen.

I'll let him know.

400GBP is not worth him giving up on, no not at all. That's why I want to kick him up the arse about it. Aaron is used to talking face to face at a betting shop and has little experience of online gambling... Emails... Forums etc. I do feel a great responsibility about all this.

Thank you so much for your help and interest so far.