Captain Cooks Bonus Terms

[Stanford]

i do not get it why so many people are upset about there bonus rules. they are giving free money which is yours to keep after the playthrough requirements. most other casinos take away there bonus when you make a withdrawal.

Could be because if you have a nice win, you will spend the next eternity trying to get your money. Read my original post but I don't know of anyone that has wagering requirements on winnings and then double requirements on the bonus and the wagering requirements on the deposit.

There are lots of casinos that don't have a sticky bonus and many better than this.

If you like to play without a bonus - then its fine. Otherwise throw a dart at a list of microgaming casinos and you will probably do better.

Stanford

 

[KasinoKing]

Could be because if you have a nice win, you will spend the next eternity trying to get your money. Read my original post but I don't know of anyone that has wagering requirements on winnings and then double requirements on the bonus and the wagering requirements on the deposit.

There are lots of casinos that don't have a sticky bonus and many better than this.

If you like to play without a bonus - then its fine. Otherwise throw a dart at a list of microgaming casinos and you will probably do better.
Stanford

The first bit of your reply is quite right - on refection I'm actually quite glad I didn't get a big win with the bonus money! I ended up with 151 and transferred the whole lot.
This means my TOTAL WR is:
(216 x 10) + (251 x 10) = 4670 off a 100 deposit = 23.35 x Bonus awarded.
That's not too bad compared with some other casinos.

But zkevin is also right - this is bonus money - i.e. free money! If I had a big win it would still all be 'free money' and so I could do like he said & transfer a bit at a time.
'Never look a gift horse in the mouth!'

So I guess I'm kinda sittin on the fence!

I don't agree with your 'Dart selection technique' though - there are more MG's with worse offers than CCC, than there are better ones.
e.g. There are loads with 'slots only' WR = Long shots!

Saga: Well into second WR and got seriously bitten in the ass by Thunderstruck! Chasing those damn Rams for well over an hour with only scraps to feed on, before they eventually turned up on spin 395!
Of course, by this time my bank had seriously plummeted and the small return was but a drop in the ocean!
So I switched to 3-card poker, and in a great 10 minutes I won the lot back!
But lost most again since
The Rollercoaster Ride continues....

 

[Clayman]

If there is a change in the wind, I would give them a look.
Stanford

Hi All - missed you guys & girls
My lack of posting has been due to an accident I was in but I'm feeling better now and recently got "back in the saddle" at Capt Cooks and thought I'd tell you what happened.

Somehow I was offered the "intro" deal again (I hadn't played there in at least 16 months) so I bought $100 in Sep and got $216 into my newly-opened bonus acct. I didn't even begin to play until late Oct. I wagered the 216*35 at single-deck BJ at which point I transferred $216 plus winnings into my real account thru their bonus page where it said I had no outstanding WR's. Despite having now a $700+ balance in my real account, I only wagered basically $3500 more (original $100 purchase*35). I cashed out on a Thurs nite and was paid to Neteller Mon AM. My purchase amount was outstanding for 6 weeks and it was 3 weeks from beginning play to cash-out.

The things to note are when they say "All wagering requirements must be met within 7 days of the bonus being credited to the player account or the promotional bonus will be subject to deduction from the player's account. This will be determined by Captain Cooks E-Commerce Limited. Further Action will be taken against serial promotion abusers.", they apparently don't mean it or at least never actually enforce it. Even in the past when I played there, they never enforced that clause. And, if I'm not the Ted Bundy of serial promotion abusers, I don't know who is.

Also, despite having wagered lifetime prior to this deal a mere $5200 on $400 of purchases, I am somehow nonetheless labeled a VIP. This was news to me since they say on their website "Players are required to deposit a minimum of $600 and wager at least 50,000 casino credits in their real account. Its that easy!" to become a VIP. Apparently it's even easier than that.

The way the CSR explained it to me, these days almost everyone is a VIP. If you only take the $16 free chip you are not a VIP but if you make a purchase, and therefore "risk" something, you are a VIP. If you are a VIP, you do not have to wager on any winnings transferred from bonus account to real account. If you are not a VIP, you do. This is something you would think they might explain somewhere on their website but I don't think they do. They'd get more players if they did.

Needless to say the CSR didn't really know how or why I was a VIP, only that the computer said I was. He didn't know why their website says what it says. I was worried that when it came time for cash-out that what I was told on the phone would turn out to not be true. We all know how that goes. But it turns out, it's their website that's not true.

I entered this deal prepared to play 35X on any transferred winnings so it certainly was a pleasant surprise to find out half-way thru I only had to wager $11,060 or so. Naturally, under these terms, I find this to be a fantastic deal and would gladly play it every day if I could, although naturally I would prefer to start with all $316 in one account as a bankroll. It could be real tough playing a $50 bonus 35 times.

Anyway, just two more examples of posted T&C that apparently don't mean what they say. What else is new.

So it may be worth it to avail yourself of their call-back service (it worked on my second try) and just ask if you are a VIP or not and confirm the WR's. If I had to do it again, I'd get them to send me an e-mail confirming my VIP status and the WR's before I purchase.

One other thing that I think was noted here somewhere, it's true Playcheck does not function for the bonus account. They're "working on it" but don't hold your breath.

 

[sw2003]

Hi All - missed you guys & girls
My lack of posting has been due to an accident I was in but I'm feeling better now and recently got "back in the saddle" at Capt Cooks and thought I'd tell you what happened.

Somehow I was offered the "intro" deal again (I hadn't played there in at least 16 months) so I bought $100 in Sep and got $216 into my newly-opened bonus acct. I didn't even begin to play until late Oct. I wagered the 216*35 at single-deck BJ at which point I transferred $216 plus winnings into my real account thru their bonus page where it said I had no outstanding WR's. Despite having now a $700+ balance in my real account, I only wagered basically $3500 more (original $100 purchase*35). I cashed out on a Thurs nite and was paid to Neteller Mon AM. My purchase amount was outstanding for 6 weeks and it was 3 weeks from beginning play to cash-out.

The things to note are when they say "All wagering requirements must be met within 7 days of the bonus being credited to the player account or the promotional bonus will be subject to deduction from the player's account. This will be determined by Captain Cooks E-Commerce Limited. Further Action will be taken against serial promotion abusers.", they apparently don't mean it or at least never actually enforce it. Even in the past when I played there, they never enforced that clause. And, if I'm not the Ted Bundy of serial promotion abusers, I don't know who is.

Also, despite having wagered lifetime prior to this deal a mere $5200 on $400 of purchases, I am somehow nonetheless labeled a VIP. This was news to me since they say on their website "Players are required to deposit a minimum of $600 and wager at least 50,000 casino credits in their real account. Its that easy!" to become a VIP. Apparently it's even easier than that.

The way the CSR explained it to me, these days almost everyone is a VIP. If you only take the $16 free chip you are not a VIP but if you make a purchase, and therefore "risk" something, you are a VIP. If you are a VIP, you do not have to wager on any winnings transferred from bonus account to real account. If you are not a VIP, you do. This is something you would think they might explain somewhere on their website but I don't think they do. They'd get more players if they did.

Needless to say the CSR didn't really know how or why I was a VIP, only that the computer said I was. He didn't know why their website says what it says. I was worried that when it came time for cash-out that what I was told on the phone would turn out to not be true. We all know how that goes. But it turns out, it's their website that's not true.

I entered this deal prepared to play 35X on any transferred winnings so it certainly was a pleasant surprise to find out half-way thru I only had to wager $11,060 or so. Naturally, under these terms, I find this to be a fantastic deal and would gladly play it every day if I could, although naturally I would prefer to start with all $316 in one account as a bankroll. It could be real tough playing a $50 bonus 35 times.

Anyway, just two more examples of posted T&C that apparently don't mean what they say. What else is new.

So it may be worth it to avail yourself of their call-back service (it worked on my second try) and just ask if you are a VIP or not and confirm the WR's. If I had to do it again, I'd get them to send me an e-mail confirming my VIP status and the WR's before I purchase.

One other thing that I think was noted here somewhere, it's true Playcheck does not function for the bonus account. They're "working on it" but
don't hold your breath.

I have deposited more than you and wagered more than you but they never told me that I was a VIP so I guessed that I am not.

No playcheck in bonus account! Why because this is where all the casino magic is happening to neutralize your transfer chances!

 

[Clayman]

I have deposited more than you and wagered more than you but they never told me that I was a VIP so I guessed that I am not.

They never told me either - it just happened to come up in the conversation. I was shocked to hear that I was. I think there is some "Premium VIP" status maybe that would be more like what one expect a VIP to be. Just silly mis-leading terminology.

So how's it feel to be a VIP. LOL.

 

[KasinoKing]

The way the CSR explained it to me, these days almost everyone is a VIP. If you only take the $16 free chip you are not a VIP but if you make a purchase, and therefore "risk" something, you are a VIP. If you are a VIP, you do not have to wager on any winnings transferred from bonus account to real account. If you are not a VIP, you do. This is something you would think they might explain somewhere on their website but I don't think they do. They'd get more players if they did.

Damn! I wish you'd posted that before I blew all my bonus & winnings trying to meet the WR!
I'm now left with 25 less than my deposit, and facing an uphill battle to get it back before getting to the WR (about 200 more to do).
I suppose, if what you said is really true, I could bail out now - but that's a bit defeatist - I'll take the gamble!

 

[Clayman]

Damn! I wish you'd posted that before I blew all my bonus & winnings trying to meet the WR!

Even better would be if they posted it on their website so I wouldn't have to here.

Obviously they feel it's in their enlightened self-interest to just let players lose their money wagering more than is actually required.

If I were you, I'd find out if you were able to cash-out now because you are a VIP player. And take the opportunity to tell them they must change their definition of a VIP player on their website. The way it is now is borderline fraudulent, if you ask me. It's bad enough that you have to e-mail them when you think you have wagered 50,000 in your real account and ask to be added to the VIP list. So naturally they don't let you know when they unilaterally change your status, preferring instead to let you believe you are a non-VIP subject to "industry-unique", shall we kindly say, WR's.

But I know you're a gambler and won't cut your losses!

And good luck to you.

 

[jetset]

It's great to see you back, Clayman - your balance and knowledge are always read with respect. Sorry to hear about your accident and hope you have made a good recovery.

 

[willy]

comments

Hi Bryan and Interrested Readers,
I've read with great interrest, your comments in the preceeding pages and would like to add some points from the perspective of the Casino(s) referred to. Firstly, Thank's for all of your comments, we really value our players opinions here at The Captains and The Kingdom and certainly factor these views in to every single modification we make to our Promotions Program.

We have a system which automatically adds deserving Players to our VIP lists, in the next month or so we will have a new automated mail system which notifies people when they are added to the VIP list - at present unfortunately we cannot do this, but it becomes obvious for new VIPs because they will start receiving our VIP offers nearly every week.

We have the backup system in place (email us if you think you have wagered $50,000 etc) as a safety net for customers who perhaps do not meet our standard criteria but feel they should be rewarded - this does happen from time to time as it is impossible (despite the countless hours we have put into developing this new system) to put together a set of criteria which is infallible.

Obviously we cannot disclose this set of criteria, if we were to do so our system would open to serious abuse. Non-VIP players are required to wager any transfers from their Bonus Account to their Real Account, this is part of our published Terms and Conditions and has been so for quite a few months now. We also include this rule in all correspondence we send out in relation to our customers' bonus accounts. We are always forthcoming with information about our rules and we always allow customers a 'grace' period of at least two weeks when we introduce a new rule. The reason we do not apply this rule for VIP and Premium VIP players is because they have proven (through qualifying to become a VIP) that they are interested in wagering and taking their chances, not simply playing to systematically withdraw as much of the casino's promotion funds as possible. When our promotions are taken advantage of it inevitably denies our proven, valuable and genuine players the promotions and rewards they deserve.

The VIP rewards system is just that - a rewards system - so to say what we are doing (especially considering the above explanation) 'borders in fraudulent' is ridiculous, we are a respectable organisation and have been in the business with an impeccable reputation for over five years. Our system is a constantly evolving manifestation, based on any number of factors, not the least the views and opinions of ALL of you. Your ideas, views and opinions really are essential to our momentum in this competative industry, to close our eyes and ears to all of you would result in disaster for any organisation, so Thanks again for the valuable insights.
Bryan, I hope your health is holding up after Barcelona. Good Luck and I hope you all continue to enjoy The Captains and The Kingdom and Have Fun...after all...that's the real bottom line .
John Dick.
Integrity Casinos

 

[Stanford]

Obviously we cannot disclose this set of criteria, if we were to do so our system would open to serious abuse. Non-VIP players are required to wager any transfers from their Bonus Account to their Real Account, this is part of our published Terms and Conditions and has been so for quite a few months now...
The VIP rewards system is just that - a rewards system - so to say what we are doing (especially considering the above explanation) 'borders in fraudulent' is ridiculous, we are a respectable organisation and have been in the business with an impeccable reputation for over five years. Our system is a constantly evolving manifestation, based on any number of factors, not the least the views and opinions of ALL of you. Your ideas, views and opinions really are essential to our momentum in this competative industry, to close our eyes and ears to all of you would result in disaster for any organisation, so Thanks again for the valuable insights.
John Dick.
Integrity Casinos

Hi Willy,

Thanks for stopping by. The system is just not good for players - recreational players. They should either play without a bonus or not play at all.

I understand what you are trying to do but having WR on winnings is just insane. You say having fun is the bottom line. But hitting a nice jackpot or royal and facing massive WRs isn't much fun.

Stanford

 

[Clayman]

We have a system which automatically adds deserving Players to our VIP lists, in the next month or so we will have a new automated mail system which notifies people when they are added to the VIP list ...it becomes obvious for new VIPs because they will start receiving our VIP offers nearly every week.

We have the backup system in place (email us if you think you have wagered $50,000 etc) as a safety net for customers who perhaps do not meet our standard criteria but feel they should be rewarded

Obviously we cannot disclose this set of criteria,

Thanks for posting here.

Your website says "How Do I Become A VIP? Players are required to deposit a minimum of $600 and wager at least 50,000 casino credits in their deposit account." It says REQUIRED, not that a secret subjective system is in place that might award you VIP status in complete contradiction to your published web terms.

While we wait for your automated system to work "in a month or so", why don't you guys extract VIP people from your database and send them a MANUAL e-mail?

I get e-mail from Capt Cooks and not one has ever mentioned the term "VIP". They appear to be offers open to everyone.

And now you introduce the term "Premium VIP" which I don't think even exists on your website. Does it? Perhaps you could elaborate for us the "safety net" terms that are required to be met before one achieves that status. Any chance you let them know, other than thru e-mail offers?

I didn't play there for months because I assumed I was a non-VIP and chose not to play under the ridiculous WR's as set forth on your website. Perhaps that's exactly the reason you have things the way they are.

At least 2 posters in this thread, if not more, have been mislead by these terms. One can only guess how many have fallen into the same trap but, by your own admission, "this is part of our published Terms and Conditions and has been so for quite a few months now."

It may not be fradulent but I find it deplorable. You guys are a better casino than this.

All you really had to do anytime in the last quite a few months, or even do now, would be to say "Lots of players are VIP's. Contact us to find out if you are one of them".

 

[Clayman]

The system is just not good for players - recreational players. They should either play without a bonus or not play at all.
I understand what you are trying to do but having WR on winnings is just insane.

The system is fine for VIP players and I suspect a very high percentage of people have been "automatically" classified as such by their system.

Perhaps willy could tell us what percentage of players actually are VIP's currently. And how many of them have yet to wager $50,000 in their real account.

 

[Riffle72]

Cooks

I am totally amazed when I read this.

I have, and several other people I know, have had nothing but great things with these casinos.

Yes...I have cashed out and I know SEVERAL others that have also.

Their customer service is the best I have seen in a very long time from a micro casino and to me....that also is another reason to play.

I too am a recreational gambler....and no I don't have thousands of dollars to deposit at these casinos....but never once have I run into any of these problems...never....

Personally, I think they are top notch in my book and I can bet there are more people who love them then hate them.

Can I ask a question? If it is so horrible....then why are you still playing there?

 

[Vesuvio]

For once I tend to support the casino here.

For months earlier this year Captain Cooks had the most generous bonus scheme of any on-line casino. If played correctly it more or less guaranteed a new player a profit of well over GBP200. Actually allowing multiple accounts from the same household was verging on the suicidal.

So it was understandable that they might want to change the terms. The current offer has a hugely greater wagering requirement, but with autoplay it does still give the player a fair chance of making a profit (even having to wager money transferred from the bonus account).

I'd have thought some sort of clause should be brought in to deal with anyone hitting a jackpot or royal flush in the bonus account (maybe a cap on the wr?), but the terms are clear and the player does always have the option of not playing a game with these types of payouts (basically, play BJ).

Re: VIP status - this strikes me as something the casino shouldn't explain in their terms for the reasons willy gives, but obviously if players have been misled into playing more than needed because they didn't know they were VIPs that needs to be looked into. Unfortunately the attention drawn to it on here will probably just mean that fewer players get away without wagering transferred money...

 

[willy]

comment

Thanks for the questions . I really don't want to attempt to divulge the actual percentage of our players who are VIP Players. To me that's pretty useless information, as like many things in the industry, it's a constantly changing figure. I don't see any relavence in posting information like that in this debate.
The description of what is required of a player to qualify as a VIP player is a guide only. Of coarse there's going to be some flexability in a system such as this...in a industry such as this.We cater to many and varied personalities and habits, so I hardly think it's unusual to expect and assume that there would exist a player classification such as Premium VIP.
I'll assume that everyone is aware that the Competition Accounts are optional. That is to say, it's your choise as to whether or not you involve yourselves with these accounts. We certainly have plenty of players who have come to grips with the system and really see the benefits...and yes many are sucessful in their persuits within these accounts.
I do find it difficult to imagine that any player using a Competition Account does not at some stage check on their progress towards reaching wagering requirments. This is all that is required to see the actual amount of credits currently transferrable to their Deposit Account.
Competition Accounts aren't for everybody. We accept that fact.Certainly, it only takes a short email to be free of this burden,if that's the perception.
Thanks Again All, and especially Thanks to those who have introduced a broader perspective in these pages.
John Dick
Integrity Casinos

 

[Stanford]

I am totally amazed when I read this.

I too am a recreational gambler....and no I don't have thousands of dollars to deposit at these casinos....but never once have I run into any of these problems...never....

Personally, I think they are top notch in my book and I can bet there are more people who love them then hate them.

Can I ask a question? If it is so horrible....then why are you still playing there?

Hi Rifle,

Congratulations on your first post.

I don't still play there. But would play there if there was not the possibility of eons of wagering requirements. If you want to play there, feel free but there are much better places for recreational players to play. I advise that if you have one of the bonus accounts you just enjoy yourself without a bonus until you hit the magical VIP status.

The purpose of this thread was to point out a truly mind blowing concept introduced by no other casino - wagering requirements on winnings.

Stanford.

 

[trick]

Vesuvio

but the terms are clear

I wrote the support about the WR and got a wrong answer.

Willy

I'll assume that everyone is aware that the Competition Accounts are optional.

I guess you mean Bonus Accounts? I didn't have one, but it was automatically created for me - I never knew I could avoid having one. I didn't have one for the first year or so, but as I stated, it was created automatically without me requesting it, so I didn't know I could avoid having one....

Good to see you here though and thanks for answering questions. In terms of support response time your casino is among the best.. :notworthy

 

[bonustreak]

I don't understand all the hoopla over this issue. I understand why the casino has all these rules in place, can you even imagine how much they lost from bonus abuse? There are people out there that just look to scam up on a bonus.

The real account wager is easy to take care of, deposit $600 and become a vip, you can do this over a period of time, just add up all your deposits.

I look for customer service in casinos, and they have the best out there on the net, this casino will go out of their way to make you a happy customer.
I just can't jump on the bashing bandwagon here because both Cooks and Kingdom have been good to me and treated me with respect and they have always been fair to me.

The other good thing about a bonus account is you can watch your casino play and see when you have met the wager requirement. I look for alot of Micro casinos to follow in this bonus account idea.

 

[Stanford]

I don't understand all the hoopla over this issue. I understand why the casino has all these rules in place, can you even imagine how much they lost from bonus abuse? There are people out there that just look to scam up on a bonus.

The real account wager is easy to take care of, deposit $600 and become a vip, you can do this over a period of time, just add up all your deposits.

The other good thing about a bonus account is you can watch your casino play and see when you have met the wager requirement. I look for alot of Micro casinos to follow in this bonus account idea.

Hello Vixen,

Congratulations on your first post.

I don't know what you mean about deposit $600 and become a VIP.

The hoopla as you put it is because this is the *only* casino on the net and maybe in the entire universe to assess wagering requirements on winnings. Can you think of any other?

Now some players never play with a bonus. Cooks and Kingdom is just fine for that kind of player. Otherwise, players should do themselves a favor and play the exact same games at casinos that don't penalize them for winning.

I don't know what you mean "scam" a bonus. Players accept a promotion and use it to try out the casino. Now normally, if a player gets lucky he is likely to return. I am not sure that the promotional bonus works well in this case though. Imagine hitting a royal in the bonus account. Sheesh.

Stanford.

 

[KasinoKing]

The hoopla as you put it is because this is the *only* casino on the net and maybe in the entire universe to assess wagering requirements on winnings. Can you think of any other?

I have to agree with Stanford here - this bonus system is absurd!

I first joined Crooks this month for 'a bit of fun' really. I went for the 10x wagering option by avoiding BJ & VP - instead I did most of my 'bonus account' WR on slots & card poker games. I ended up meeting the first WR with about 150 left from 200, and was quite happy with that considering most of my wagering was on slots.
But, IF I had of hit a lucky nice jackpot win, I could have still been trying to work off the 2nd WR til bleedin' EASTER!
They may well be a 'fair' casino with good CS, but this 'wager your winnings x10 (or x35)' could turn into a nightmare!
I agree, it should be capped - my suggestion is the 2nd WR (if they must have one) should be limited to the amount of bonus received in the first place. That would be much more sensible.
i.e. WR = Bx10 + Bx10(max) + Dx10. (Replace 10 by 35 if you're a BJ or VP junkie!)

As a matter of no interest to anyone, having met the first WR, I was well on the way to 2nd WR when the card dealer went into 'total p-taking' mode and all the reels fell off my slots!
(i.e. I crashed & burned!) I did have fun doing it though!

 

[Clayman]

The real account wager is easy to take care of, deposit $600 and become a vip, you can do this over a period of time, just add up all your deposits.

The point is that that is what the website tells you - deposit at least $600, wager at least $50,000 in your real account and then contact them to become VIP. Anything less than that, don't bother.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) that is simply not true. Apparently, according to willy, Captain Cooks interprets this as only a "guideline", despite the website saying it is required.

No one was more surprised than I to discover by sheer happenstance, after not playing there for 16 months, I was somehow, sometime, classified as a VIP after depositing only $400 and wagering only $5200. So why in the world would I think I could enjoy the reduced WR's of VIP's? In my case, my lucky discovery saved me from wagering an extra $20,000.

So, I guess my suggestion is that, before you deposit, just e-mail and ask them what your status is. You may likely discover that you are a VIP!

Has anyone here received e-mails offers identifying them as a VIP? I haven't. Ever.

 

[Riffle72]

Cooks

Apparently, according to willy, Captain Cooks interprets this as only a "guideline", despite the website saying it is required.

I think one thing people tend to forget is the online casino is also a business and as with any business, big or small, they have to set certain guidelines and I am sure there are certain people that they say...hey....they are loyal customers....treat them good.....as with ANY business.....

Even as a recreational gambler....I always double check things before any casino gets my money. I agree with Clayman.....it only takes 2 minutes to email support....

 

[arbster]

I agree with Clayman.....it only takes 2 minutes to email support....

And at CCC, unlike many others, only a couple of hours for them to get back to you

 

[willy]

comment

Arbster.....I'm stunned matey. "A couple of hours" to get back to you? Jeepers, this is not the music to my ears. Our crew are ever mindful of the task at hand ...and that is to provide prompt, excellent professional and curteous replies to inquiries from our valued Players. I would hope that you had encountered a speedier response than this as our player managment protocol provides for something more akin to 10 ( to 20) minutes. Perhaps ..it's possible that you may have had the misfortune of popping a question when I myself was on watch? I'm known to be considerably more rikkety on the keyboard than the bulk of our hardy Call Center crew members. I do try hard tho'.
JohnD,
Integrity Casinos

 

[willy]

question

Please forgive my re-appearence all, I promise I'm not going to become a serial poster in your threads or a everpresent pest. I'm just curious and would like to ask Clayman something . During the 5000 wagering in your competition Account you mention above, did you not check anytime to see how much you had wagered ? No disrespect intended but just to cut loose wagering without checking would be folly. Upon checking you would be made aware of your required remaining wagering amount.
Our system isn't perfect....not everyone is going to like it, but it is a platform to build on, which is precisely what our organisation is all about. Thanks again for all of your thoughts, you can be sure that many of the points raised here are "topical' in our world and this Forum is the beginning of a voyage for many of those thoughts.
JohnD
Integrity Casinos