Captain Cooks Bonus Terms

[Riffle72]

Cooks

I agree...I have never had to wait more than 15 minutes to get a reply.....

I totally suck at keeping track of how much I wagered so I always go check...did you know they had a site that tells you that....there should be a link in the email you received when you registered your bonus account!

John, just to let you know....I think Cap Cooks rocks....and you will continue to get my deposits!

 

[Vesuvio]

The hoopla as you put it is because this is the *only* casino on the net and maybe in the entire universe to assess wagering requirements on winnings. Can you think of any other?

The Aztec Riches, Music Hall etc. group of casinos used to have a truly "evil" bonus account, which as well as having an enormous (and unstated) wagering requirement in the bonus account made you wager any "winnings" from there as well.

They've now changed over to just asking you to wager your original deposit in the real account. I don't think it's that shocking that a casino which has a bonus account asks you to wager money transferred from there, though it does make it much less appealing & is a liability if you have a big win.

I agree this bonus system is terrible for any "recreational" players out there, but then the sad truth is that recreational players almost always lose their deposits anyway...

 

[Riffle72]

Cooks

I am going to say one last thing....I could post and post until I am blue in the face but if people have made their mind up...it won't do any good.


In my opinion, whether "recreational" or not.....if you gamble...you risk your money....

It is my opinion that if you are willing to deposit your money into a casino...you have to be willing to accept any terms the casino has....if you gamble....you have to face the fact that you are not going to win as often as you like....and you are not always going to meet the terms....but that is a risk you are willing to take or else you would not be depositing, correct?

If you don't agree with the terms....or you feel cheated....don't spend your money.....it is as simple as that.

 

[marinchen]

captain cooks and casino kingdom

hi8 everybody,

first i like to say.. i live in europe/ austria...sooo please excuse my english
i didnt understand everything what is posted here.. but i like to say something
i am very happy that i am a player at CCC and CK
they have the best support i have ever seen.
second is...even i understood what i have to do to be a vip
and i think it is really not hard to send an e-mail to the casinos to ask if somebody is already a vip.
this are the first casinos where i play always a long time if i deposit..
i already cashed out big
i could cash out much more...lolll
but i am also a little bit crazy...lollll
i feel really like a vip at these 2 casinos..
they are always very nice....they give out a lot of bonuses.
and i love this system with the bonusaccounts..even i would not need it anymore since i am vip
because now as vip i dont need to playthrough the bonus

i hope everybody understands my english
and finally i like to say
this 2 casinos will always have my support
i love them!

 

[Vesuvio]

All these first time posters are very suspicious...

 

[Riffle72]

Why

I am sorry...but that is just rude....

I thought this was a forum where I could come and defend a casino that I felt was being wronged....

Just because I am a first poster does not mean I don't have an opinion....

You were never a first time poster.....I only come here every so often....i just happened to see this post and stated my opinion.....

 

[The Dude]

I am sorry...but that is just rude....

I second the notion. It's no more suspicious than long-time posters chiming in stating that they like CCC.

 

[KasinoKing]

Just because I am a first poster does not mean I don't have an opinion....

Quite right too - you keep posting! I sometimes get a poor reaction to my opinions, but having different opinions & discussing them is what makes this forum so great!

I'm sure Vesuvio will reply to your post in person, but I suspect his comment was made because it's VERY unusual to get quite so many people all saying that a casino is 'fantastic, brilliant, totally fair' etc. all at once.
I have to agree with him there!

I also agree with your comments about gambling with your own funds. Too many here seem to be obsessed with just squeezing as much bonus money out of the casino's with minimum risk. That's not what I personally call gambling. (Watch for the reaction to that statement!). My biggest fear is this will eventually lead to the end of the best bonuses, leaving us just scraps to pick at.

Isn't there some saying about bitting the hand that feeds you....
_

 

[Medusa]

For what it's worth, I understand both sides of this. I love CCC, but hate high wag. reqs.
To me this seems to be a big communication problem. The VIP statement on CCC's site is "Players are required to deposit a minimum of $600 and wager at least 50,000 casino credits in their deposit account."
Also goes on to say, email them about becoming a VIP, etc. The problem is, is that if CCC is sending out emails to players telling them that they have become VIP's, some might not get the emails due to spam filters.

Now if you're depositing a few hundred $$, especially after reading the VIP statement on the CCC site, wouldn't it occur to you to find out if you've become a VIP? IMO, I'd be emailing them to find out.
We should all know by now to check everything out with bonuses these days, and if I'm going to have to wager extra, you better be damn sure I'm going to find out why before one cent get's spent.

John: One question I have about the VIP terms: Let's say someone deposits $600, but doesn't wager the 50,000. Does that person still become a VIP because of the deposit alone?
That is one thing that might be causing the confusion.

I hope this gets straightened out for all involved, I hate to see a casino I love get badmouthed, and I do understand the confusion of the player. Taking what's been said in this thread, maybe it will help all involved to work to get problems like this solved, and the fact that John has come here shows that he is interested in players opinions & problems.

Btw, KasinoKing: Damn, that must've been one hell of a ride!

 

[willy]

reply

In defence of Our crew member Belle her reply to Trick was accurate and tho' a mistake was made, it's perfectly understandable.
The player makes no mention of playing thru wagering requirments on his deposit(only his Bonus) in his email to her. As I understand something of the process involved here, I would say that she may have assumed this player was indeed referring to a withdrawal from his Competition Account, as the player was indeed still engaged in play in that particular account.In which case her reply is correct and proper.
Her reply was quite accurate given the circumstances here. If our crew were to be 100% accurate and correct, considering the multitude of languages, terminology and attitudes they deal with in a normal shift , I myself would be extremely proud.
JohnD
Integrity Casinos

 

[willy]

answer

Hi Medusa,
This statment is a guide to our players.The way it reads back a few posts with "nothing less will suffice"attached is in no way it's intended drift. I'm not sure where this came from but I'm certain that it's not on our website. Regardless, to give our New Players some idea of what is required to attain VIP Player rateing, we needed numbers, we couldn't just say....prove to us that you are genuinly treating our sites as entertainment and not involved in outright profiteering from every single generous Bonus you receive.
They are the numbers we used, there's no time frame attached forcing people to race out and bung $600 into our coffers. Our competition Accounts are there to facilitate developments of our Player Rewards Program (down the track) for the benefit of our players. Those of you who participate in the use of these accounts would be aware of the increased level of promotions available to you already.
One perception that needs to go to sleep is the idea that we have put wagering requirments on winnings. This is not the case, funds from Competition Accounts do not become winnings until wagering has been met. Wagering for VIP players is less because these players have already proven that they are using our sites appropriatly.We surely need some safeguards against some of the highly organised groups out there that are spoiling Promotions for many deserving Players.
JohnD
Integrity Casinos

 

[Medusa]

I do understand that, and yes steps are needed to weed out bonus abusing. Other than stating some long draw out statement on the site regarding the VIP status of a player, perhaps in the future use something that would let the player know for sure if they are VIPs or not.
Stupid Example #1: A message stating that the've reached VIP status when they login to the casino, be it a popup like the message of the day, or stated in the cashier when they go to deposit.

I'm just trying to suggest things that both players and you John, would both be able to work with so situations like these don't happen.

 

[marinchen]

All these first time posters are very suspicious...

ok dont worry ...i wont post here again
this place seems to be to "friendly" for me
bye and have fun

 

[Clayman]

I'm just curious and would like to ask Clayman something . During the 5000 wagering in your competition Account you mention above, did you not check anytime to see how much you had wagered ?

Hi willy. Your presence here is always very welcome and much appreciated, at least by me.

I probably did not make myself clear. Prior to my most recent deposit in late Sep, I had wagered lifetime with Capt Cooks $5200 and made $400 in purchases thru July 2003. I did not play again until last month.
When I made my purchase and set up the bonus account for the first time, I assumed I was a non-VIP based on the terms of your website that seemed very clear and gave me no hint that it was merely a "guideline", as I now know. So when I made my purchase I was willing to do the wagering under the terms of being a non-VIP. So I was expecting to wager deposit*35+bonus*70+winnings-on-bonus*35.
It was only during the course of playing that I used your call-back to ask some questions on other matters. During the course of the conversation, the CSR told me I was a VIP. I asked him how he reconciled the definition on the website to my play but he did not know. Frankly, I didn't believe him until I got paid after completing the wagering under "VIP" terms. Of course it was a very pleasant surprise since it saved me $20,000 in wagering I was assuming I would be playing.

I really believe there are lots of players that actually read all the T&C, assume they are a non-VIP and wager accordingly, as I almost did myself except for the pure luck of an off-topic comment. I can only assume that is the way you want it.

I guess only you know the criteria that were applied to me to award me VIP status but, obviously wagering $5200 and purchasing $400 is alot less than wagering $50,000 and purchasing $600. If I e-mailed you guys would you be able to tell me when that status was bestowed upon me? Just curious. The CSR seemed to think if one made any purchase at all, as opposed to only using the free chip, he was a VIP because it shows a willingness to risk your own money.

Even today, after completing the most recent deal, I have wagered $7600 in my bonus account and $8700 in my real account lifetime. After my last purchase, I have now made only $500 in lifetime purchases.

Also I have never received an e-mail that mentions "VIP" in any way that I know of. Although most I delete quickly knowing the non-vip wagering requirements make most deals unplayable to me.

Personally I think Capt Cooks would be more of a "transparent" organisation if you just changed that one little area of your definition of a VIP. I'm not asking you to state exact criteria, quite the contrary. Since you can't now say "We will automatically inform you when you become a VIP", say something like, "Lots of our players become VIP's. E-mail us and ask." until your system actually works.

Your reliance on e-mail offers to inform players that they are a VIP seems a bit weak to me, especially since, now that I know I'm a VIP, none of the offers say they are for a VIP. When you think about why would they - it sounds as if the offers are open to all players but just that the wagering requirements differ depending on whether you are VIP or non-VIP.

BTW, I liked your bonus page. When I had played my bonus*35, it transferred the bonus and winnings no problem. I certainly couldn't figure out how it arrived at the allowed amount of transfer during the course of the deal and neither could the CSR. My best guess it was calculated the transfer based on 10X non-VIP terms. Not that I care because I could transfer all when I had wagered enough.

And I've always found your CS to be responsive and actually able to answer the question asked. Unlike so many other outfits that it's like they didn't even read your-email. I even like that you have no 800 number, figuring it saves you money you can pass on to the players!

Thanks for your time here.

 

[arbster]

Arbster.....I'm stunned matey. "A couple of hours" to get back to you? Jeepers, this is not the music to my ears. Our crew are ever mindful of the task at hand ...and that is to provide prompt, excellent professional and curteous replies to inquiries from our valued Players. I would hope that you had encountered a speedier response than this as our player managment protocol provides for something more akin to 10 ( to 20) minutes.

Heh ... my expectations have been lowered by some of your counterparts in the industry.

It's probably fair to say that a couple of hours is the slowest response I've had from the casino side of the business - the poker side can be a little more "rickety" when the "poker gurus" are out. This probably tempered my estimate.

 

[Stanford]

First of all, its nice to see Willy here for Cooks and all this conversation. Well done.

I would like to note that when I started this thread there was no complaint. I posted in another section and it was moved here. I posted a critque and a recommendation that recreational players shop around. This casino offers a poor deal.

I make this distinction between poor deal and dishonesty. I feel safe with Cook/Kingdom, I just dont know why anyone would play there. I do think they are walking a fine line as the bonus terms are not totally transparent.

Clayman said:

So, I guess my suggestion is that, before you deposit, just e-mail and ask them what your status is. You may likely discover that you are a VIP!

I tried that at Cook and Kingdom. At one I had received an offer that had VIP in the code. I emailed and asked if this meant I was VIP I received no answer. The other I just blindly asked and got a quick response. The CSR said I was close but unfortunately could not tell me how close. No transparency here.

Vesuvio said:

The Aztec Riches, Music Hall etc. group of casinos used to have a truly "evil" bonus account, which as well as having an enormous (and unstated) wagering requirement in the bonus account made you wager any "winnings" from there as well.

Aztec Riches was dishonest at that time and I dont use the word lightly. The fact is they would not tell a player how much of his winnings could transfer. And they could change the transfer rate at will. There is a good thread about this at SpearMaster.

But today, the bonus account is just fine. All terms are defined and they dont calculate wagering requirements on winnings. If someone else employs this god awful practice, please let me know. They deserve a bad critique as well. When this is done a player cannot really gage how much he will play there is loss of transparency.

Rifle said:

If you don't agree with the terms....or you feel cheated....don't spend your money.....it is as simple as that.

Which was the point of my post. This may be the worse terms of any MicroGaming Casino. Players who like to play without a bonus may enjoy the fine customer service. Otherwise, they shouldnt waste their time.

CasinoMeister said:

I second the notion. It's no more suspicious than long-time posters chiming in stating that they like CCC.

I think it is fair to look to motive. I note all these posters are involved in forums or a Webmaster so one wonders if they are related in some way or if they are defensive because of affiliate connections. It may surprise you that some affiliates are not as player oriented as you are and not as careful in applying standards.

It doesnt matter, though. The point they make that Cook/Kingdom has had very good customer service is not disputed and certainly a factor for a player to consider my own missing inquiry not withstanding.

Medusa said:

I hope this gets straightened out for all involved, I hate to see a casino I love get badmouthed, and I do understand the confusion of the player. Taking what's been said in this thread, maybe it will help all involved to work to get problems like this solved, and the fact that John has come here shows that he is interested in players opinions & problems.

John coming here is an outstanding reflection. I agree with you.

I dont know if the term bad mouthing applies. I think we have accurately described the practice. You and Clayman have accurately suggested that player status as VIP is hazy and hence the bonus terms also hazy. I think those are very good points and think constructive criticism is perhaps a better term.

Willy said:

One perception that needs to go to sleep is the idea that we have put wagering requirments on winnings. This is not the case, funds from Competition Accounts do not become winnings until wagering has been met.

This statement is a little Clintonesque. Winnings has a common meaning and we should stick to it here. When a player hits a royal flush he has won. When he completes his wagering requirements he can withdraw. What your casinos do is calculate those wagering requirements on the players winnings. If he hits a royal, he has to wager more a lot more.

As far as I know, you are the only casino that defines players wagering requirement based on how much he has won. I think my critique is fair as I think those comments commending you for discussing this and those praising your customer service are also fair. And I agree with those comments.

Imho,
Stanford.

 

[Vesuvio]

Guys, sorry for the "first time posters" comment. I was in a bit of rush to go out so didn't have time to qualify it. It's great to have new posters and this board really is friendly and welcoming.

It did seem a bit of a strange coincidence to have three or four first time posters enthusiastically supporting a casino, but it probably is just a coincidence! (and I know that a lot of people out there have good reason to feel positive about Captain Cooks, myself included )

 

[KasinoKing]

One perception that needs to go to sleep is the idea that we have put wagering requirements on winnings. This is not the case, funds from Competition Accounts do not become winnings until wagering has been met.

Is this a deliberate attempt to confuse people, or be vague?
Where did 'Competition account' come from? What is it???
There is a 'bonus' account, and a 'real' account. Or have you changed it in the last 3-4 weeks?
When I signed up recently, the T&C's definitely said I have to wager the amount transfered from my bonus to my real account x10 (or x35).
In other words, as many have said above, I had to meet WR on my winnings.
Your T&C's still say that today. So why are you posting that this is not the case?

 

[bonustreak]

Is this a deliberate attempt to confuse people, or be vague?
Where did 'Competition account' come from? What is it???



I don't think John is trying to confuse people, I understand what he means by "competition" account, it is the same thing as "bonus account", just because he calls it something different does not mean he is being vague at all.

Maybe that is how the staff at the casino refer to the bonus account, I don't know but I do understand it is one and the same.

I come here all the time and never post either, but I did feel like I should say something here about the casino because I am a very happy customer.

 

[sw2003]

Arbster.....I'm stunned matey. "A couple of hours" to get back to you? Jeepers, this is not the music to my ears. Our crew are ever mindful of the task at hand ...and that is to provide prompt, excellent professional and curteous replies to inquiries from our valued Players. I would hope that you had encountered a speedier response than this as our player managment protocol provides for something more akin to 10 ( to 20) minutes. Perhaps ..it's possible that you may have had the misfortune of popping a question when I myself was on watch? I'm known to be considerably more rikkety on the keyboard than the bulk of our hardy Call Center crew members. I do try hard tho'.
JohnD,
Integrity Casinos

In the past this was certainly true. Last night I emailed support and I was surprise today that I still haven't heard from them! Oh well! I guess your 10 to 20 minutes translate to 12 hours or more for our time here on earth.

 

[GrandMaster]

The other good thing about a bonus account is you can watch your casino play and see when you have met the wager requirement. I look for alot of Micro casinos to follow in this bonus account idea.

I am capable of following my play in my real account, I am also very happy with the bonus money in my real account, and I hope that this idea does not spread. I admit that it would be useful to have something in the cashier that shows how much WR you have.

 

[sw2003]

I am capable of following my play in my real account, I am also very happy with the bonus money in my real account, and I hope that this idea does not spread. I admit that it would be useful to have something in the cashier that shows how much WR you have.

I agree with all that! I don't like separate accounts and I too can keep track of my own wagered amount but if the cashier has something to show the exact WR done, that would be nice.

So please don't you dare make every MG casino use bonus account! :icon_evil

 

[willy]

reply

I'm not certain that I'll be able to address all of the issues put to me but I'll do my derndest. Clayman, I'm unsure of protocols to follow here, but I'll certainly check into your mysteriously acquired VIP status for you. Rather than post my email address here, if at all possible, you could get it from Bryan or if you were to email The Captain and just request your email be forwarded to me....that would work also.
It's certainly not the case that any deposit that shows you are willing to risk your own funds(I think that's how it's described) qualifies a player as a VIP. We do have a formula for this process, but in some instances, particularly with older accounts, other factors could be taken into account at times. I know this is vague, but rest assured my friend, I will reply to your issue, to you personally, in detail ,when I am able to access the required information from your good self.(account number is good enough)
I have to own up to some "foreign emotion" at the suggestion of some deliberate deception on our part to trick players into wagering more than the required amount. Our VIP players are sent regular promotions and as mentioned earlier the promotions are coded to indicate that the email contains a VIP only invited promotion.
Certainly this is inadequite, we are , as stated ,working on automated systems to deal with this.Currently we invite all and sundry to email us as to their Player Status or if they feel that they are deserving for other reasons, of VIP status.


Stanford, thanks for your thoughts and insights as well. There is much from this "debate" that will be carried abroad and not the least some of your commentry. I'd like to challenge your opinions on the matter of winnings being the sum of amounts transferred from Competition to Deposit Accounts.This may or may not be a matter of terminology but the idea that we set wagering conditions based on how much a player has won is a largely overstated .I certainly agree with you Stanford, that "winnings" has a common meaning. But....why should we apply it here in the context alluded to? For some players (VIP's) credits transferred from Competition Accounts to Deposit Accounts are indeed a different entity to those transferred by non VIP players.The whole debate then turns back to if (or not) a player is a VIP. I'm not personally involved in our efforts to develop the entire Player Rating system, but I do defend our right to retain inbuilt protection from abuse of our generosity.
For the minority who don't yet have VIP status or who have not been classified as VIP Players for other reasons, to free any of these funds up for withdrawal from the Casino, it's a requirment that transferred funds are also factored into wagering. This effects only those who don't have VIP Player status.
It's a difficult concept, for some more than others, but Players who use our Competition Accounts and accept the benefits of these accounts are easily able to access information on what is required of them before you turn your credits into withdrawals.
I don't want to again defend our motives for structuring these accounts this way, I think everybody would have absorbed that info by now.
It's a different kind of challenge. We provide you with Casino funds to embark on the challenge and we set the terms and conditions required to be met prior to withdrawing . For us to provide this opportunity to our VIP players is not extraordinary.If however,we were to provide this opportunity to every player regardless of their history or motives for accepting Bonus funds from the casino ... would be a disaster.Within days we would be forced to withdraw our offer. The groups and individuals we are protecting ourselves from are organised and ruthless with their endeavours and the fact that every genuine player seeking entertainment with the possability of rewards... is effected by their behaviour is a reality.
The statment that there isn't a great advantage here for recreational players may well be true... unless that particular player wants to be the recipient of more than usual Bonus Credits on the small amount of deposits made, in which case, if they have no history with us they are required to provide said history before they are able to take full advantage of our Competition Accounts.This doesn't mean they can't and don't win ever.
As I said earlier, the system won't please everybody, the bulk of our players seem to be happy that we are at least directing some energies towards providing a better quality product for their enjoyment.
I didn't want to ramble here, I wanted to address your legitimate concerns. I hope I have done that.
Thanks again to you All
JohnD
Integrity Casinos

 

[Stanford]

To Willy/John

Hi John,

Many thanks for coming here and exchanging ideas.

I'd like to challenge your opinions on the matter of winnings being the sum of amounts transferred from Competition to Deposit Accounts.This may or may not be a matter of terminology but the idea that we set wagering conditions based on how much a player has won is a largely overstated .I certainly agree with you Stanford, that "winnings" has a common meaning. But....why should we apply it here in the context alluded to?

You have to apply the common meaning because it makes no sense not to do that. That you segregate the bonus into a separate account is a distinction with limited difference. A win is still a win. With some casinos a win wont change the wagering requirement. However, with Cook a win in the bonus account does change the wagering requirements.

Let me tell you I speak from personal experience. I won in the bonus account, and then had a ton of wagering to do. It detracts from the enjoyment. Others here have had the same thing happen. The point of my post was to warn players so that they could play under better conditions. There are better conditions elsewhere.

For some players (VIP's) credits transferred from Competition Accounts to Deposit Accounts are indeed a different entity to those transferred by non VIP players.The whole debate then turns back to if (or not) a player is a VIP.

Sure. If we were all VIPs then it wouldnt matter. That doesnt alter my review however. I think you would agree with me that the system can be overly burdensome for a new player and consequently my conclusion that they play without the bonus or go elsewhere is justified.

I'm not personally involved in our efforts to develop the entire Player Rating system, but I do defend our right to retain inbuilt protection from abuse of our generosity.

If you have a program that increases your traffic substantially it will be because it has value. If it has value, some sophisticated player is going to figure out how to profit from it. You can make the bonus so burdensome that no sophisticated player will bother and you will also get fewer non-sophisticated players.

Players who use our Competition Accounts and accept the benefits of these accounts are easily able to access information on what is required of them before you turn your credits into withdrawals.

I agree. The point of my review was to highlight this burden because it is unique in the industry. And to point out that they should avoid such promotions in favor of promotions that dont penalize them for being lucky.

We provide you with Casino funds to embark on the challenge and we set the terms and conditions required to be met prior to withdrawing . For us to provide this opportunity to our VIP players is not extraordinary.If however,we were to provide this opportunity to every player regardless of their history or motives for accepting Bonus funds from the casino ... would be a disaster.Within days we would be forced to withdraw our offer. The groups and individuals we are protecting ourselves from are organised and ruthless with their endeavours and the fact that every genuine player seeking entertainment with the possability of rewards... is effected by their behaviour is a reality.

This isnt something we as players need to be concerned with. As I said in another thread, the Bellagio cost a lot of money to build. They build it to attract players. We as players are not concerned. Internet casinos dont have that plant cost but they have to attract players as well. They use various promotional systems. We as players should not be concerned that this is a cost to your business. There are many other places to play that have good customer service without assessing wagering requirements on winnings.

Having advised various businesses, I am however intrigued by the problem you pose. You have a mix problem. If you design your promotional system for maximum revenues, you will have leakage to sophisticated players. To maximize net revenues you will have some mix of tilt players, sophisticated players and all those in between. Maybe your VIP package gives you a good mix I have no idea. I cant imagine that your non VIP package does. I suspect you lose players.

I appreciate the exchange and wish others would join in a dialogue as you have done. I think some sophisticated players benefit you in ways you have not considered but that is a discussion for another time. I wish you good fortune.

Stanford.

 

[willy]

reply

Hi again mate. From a player perspective, I certainly would be concerned that the behaviour of sections of the community were diminishing rewards and forcing a nigh rediculous metamorphosis on institutions where I sought entertainment and value. But that's me, I've certainly taken aboard some of the points you have made. In reality all of these type of issues are fully discussed and researched prior to any changes we make. I'm definatly a more enlightened character since partaking in this discussion tho'.
"With some casinos a win wont change the wagering requirement. However, with Cook a win in the bonus account does change the wagering requirements"
This is only the case for non VIP players, and to my mind the winning factor is relative. You may have bigger wagering requirments, but you still have a stack of credits won from a Bonus awarded to you. I think that in a lot of cases , there is actually a limit on how much you can withdraw from winnings with Bonus credits.
You say also that your review was educating players to the fact that there are better conditions to play under out there and to shop around. I certainly agree with this, not everybody is going to feel comfortable with even the idea of Competition Accounts. This is something we ourselves considered very seriously, but, to us, these accounts are a innovation....they are the platform for the main thrust of our Player comfort enhancment.All of the other features are still there, you don't have to utalise Competition Accounts, you can have one single account if that's the preference and still receive great Bonus rewards.
Of coarse this reduces the number and amount of promotions available to Players who choose this route, but we haven't had too many complaints yet regarding this. So.....it's really just another option, for our players to consider and chance their form on.
"Sure. If we were all VIPs then it wouldnt matter. That doesnt alter my review however. I think you would agree with me that the system can be overly burdensome for a new player and consequently my conclusion that they play without the bonus or go elsewhere is justified"
You do make some very good points my friend, I feel tho', that there's a tendency at times to make a killer concluding statment,without considering the full detail of the preceeding statments. Because the system may be burdensome for a new player initially, to me, doesn't mean that in the long run they won't be recipient of the ultimate benifits of that system and should not persevere and ask the necessary questions.
The best indicater, I feel, is exactly as you say, "if the systen has any value, it will increase traffic to our sites.
I mean no disrespect with my ruminations (above), people would be crazy to ignore the voice of experienced respected reviewers, of coarse I'd much prefer that yours was a glowing full tilt tribute to our endeavours, but I'm still happy with where we stand right now, you have allowed my responses to your concerns, there has been a great no vitriol discussion and anybody with any concerns remaining is still able to seek and receive answers.
Thanks to you all again.
JohnD
Integrity Casinos

 

[willy]

question

Stanford,
Your last statment there, I just digested that one. That's very interresting to hear. I'd really appreaciate hearing your thoughts on that subject....anybody's for that matter. Maybe this isn't the time or place, but I'm flexible so any means you suggest of facilitating this would be fine by me.
JD

 

[willy]

Question for Trick

Hi Trick,
Are you happy with my explanation of the way things transpired with Belle's reply to you regarding your Wagering question?
I'm not entirely sure if I should bother, but if you are satisfied that this was a minor misunderstanding, I would like to provide this Danish portal with the same chance to review their thoughts on the matter.
We have a great many European Players who receive the exact same prompt and courteous attention as anybody else. My feelings are mixed on the fact that they didn't see fit to consult with us on the matter prior to penalising us.
I can say now tho', that even (hopefully) a resolution and explanation has been provided, if you had brought this situation to our attention, you would have been treated fairly and generously.Thanks my friend, I'd appreciate the chance to contact them.
JohnD
Integrity Casinos'

 

[Vesuvio]

If however,we were to provide this opportunity to every player regardless of their history or motives for accepting Bonus funds from the casino ... would be a disaster.Within days we would be forced to withdraw our offer. The groups and individuals we are protecting ourselves from are organised and ruthless with their endeavours and the fact that every genuine player seeking entertainment with the possability of rewards... is effected by their behaviour is a reality.

Just a few points on this:

1) You did provide this opportunity (not to rewager transferred funds) to every player at the same time as having a much lower wagering requirement - and this lasted for months, not days, so it might be an exaggeration to say it would be a disaster.

2) Having said that, I know the way you organised your bonus before was a liability and it was one of the wonders of the modern world that it lasted so long.

3) The reason that it did last so long was presumbably that if people didn't play it the right way they had a low chance of transferring anything and were likely to make a loss. The bonus account, if played in the way you wanted it to be played, was likely to end up trapping the player's bonus funds (with the limit on funds that could be transferred - and then another high limit on the amount that could be withdrawn). Your current monthly bonus is also little more than a trap. Forgive me in these circumstances for having little sympathy if bonus hunters were able to avoid the trap.

4) I think your comment about "ruthless" and "organised" groups and individuals is true to an extent but fairly hypocritical. Casinos are as ruthless as the sharpest bonus hunters out there in trying to extract as much money as possible from players. If while trying to set up a bonus scheme to maximise your profits you leave it so that it almost guarantees significant profits if played in a certain way then that's your mistake. You should accept it in good grace (and learn lessons for the future) rather than attacking people for taking advantage of it.

5) From my fairly extensive experience "organised" and "ruthless" isn't an accurate description of most bonus hunters. They're just people who've stumbled upon an easy way of making some money. They tend to follow some basic rules, but only a few approach it in a truly business-like manner.

6) It's true that it's a shame for "recreational players" if bonuses end up having ridiculous terms, but then these are players for whom bonuses probably aren't of great significance anyway. Bonus hunters exploiting bonuses are mainly hurting future bonus hunters who'll make a bit less money, but that's just the way it is. They also gives you an excuse to make the terms more ridiculous than necessary

 

[trick]

Hi again, JohnD!

It is nice that you are taking the time and effort to respond to this. I'll try to make it short:

In defence of Our crew member Belle her reply to Trick was accurate and tho' a mistake was made, it's perfectly understandable. The player makes no mention of playing thru wagering requirments on his deposit(only his Bonus) in his email to her. As I understand something of the process involved here, I would say that she may have assumed this player was indeed referring to a withdrawal from his Competition Account, as the player was indeed still engaged in play in that particular account.

I ask about when I can make a withdrawal. The answer is wrong. I cannot make a withdrawal after fulfilling the terms as is stated in the mail. When I ask "when can I make a withdrawal" I am not asking "when can I make a transfer from my bonus account into my real account". While this seems like a small and understandable error it did infact mean that I had to go through 3 times the WR I expected when depositing. I have taken a second look at your T&Cs and you are always using "transfer" in regard to bonus accounts and "withdrawal" in regard to deposit accounts.

It is a common mistake though, the Danish portal I spoke about wrote your support several times and got different answers as to WRs (and they were not engaged in play at all).

You wrote to Stanford:

I'd like to challenge your opinions on the matter of winnings being the sum of amounts transferred from Competition to Deposit Accounts.

You might want to challenge your T&Cs also. This is from CCCs T&C:

Prizes/Winnings can be transferred from a Bonus Account to Deposit Account once all wagering requirements on the bonus have been met.

Since there is WR on non-VIPs deposit accounts it is pretty obvious that WRs are applied to winnings. It is not a matter of wording or perspective.

I'm not entirely sure if I should bother, but if you are satisfied that this was a minor misunderstanding, I would like to provide this Danish portal with the same chance to review their thoughts on the matter.

They probably would if "my case" was the reason for the removal but I only made them aware that the terms for CCC on their page was different from what it was in reality. After contacting you a couple of times with different answers, they finally got the correct terms and decided to exclude you from their list. They did this because they found that your terms penalize players who win.

I do not represent them and I will not mention names here, but I will point them to this thread so they can respond if they wish to. They are quite big if that is what you mean with "I'm not entirely sure if I should bother".

I am a danish player and we are generally seen as the root of all evil - your own casino has excluded danish players from different offers, so I didn't bring it to your attention at the time because I didn't think it would make any difference. I don't seek any resolution or anything. I followed the terms, completed my obligations, and decided that "dynamic WR" was not my cup of tee....

 

[willy]

reply

OK , Thanks everybody for the frank discussion. I don't want to perpetuate this thread. Vesuvio, it certainly would be nice if we only had to deal with Bonus Hunters as you describe them and if The Danish Portal has contacted us, I can find no record of the event. I'm glad I could help out here, I hope that I have provided some assistance.
You can all be sure that we, at least are willing to listen and discuss any reasonable concerns.
Thanks again everybody.

 

[willy]

back

Since this is a open and frank discussion, I feel that I should add a few points in reply to these last two posts.
For precisely the reasons I mentioned earlier and thanks to a "ruthless and organised" few.... ALL Players now receive reduced Bonus rewards as New Players with us. This is no deception or "exaggeration" it's a fact.
Point three from Vesuvio is a very good description af gambling in general, tho', the statment
" if played in the way you wanted it to be played, was likely to end up trapping the player's bonus funds (with the limit on funds that could be transferred - and then another high limit on the amount that could be withdrawn). "
The way we wanted it to be played? I'm not sure what this means. We certainly do take Play sequences into account when building our systems (what business wouldn't?) we actually have no control or influence over players decisions.
"5) From my fairly extensive experience "organised" and "ruthless" isn't an accurate description of most bonus hunters. They're just people who've stumbled upon an easy way of making some money. They tend to follow some basic rules, but only a few approach it in a truly business-like manner."
Vesuvio, I wasn't actually referring to "Bonus Hunters"with my comment. In fact, you may not be aware, there exist other groups and individuals who defy this innocent handle. I don't really want to go into any further detail, but with "extensive experience" you'd be aware of the existance of these people.
We advertise and Promote our Rewards programs so that our Players, be they "Bonus Hunters" or not are able to take advantage of the most funds we are sensibly able to provide for them. It's actually what we use our Promotions Department for.If you feel that, after reading our Terms and Conditions, our Wagering Conditions are "ridiculous" your next decision should be very easy.

Hi Trick,
I have no desire to challenge our Terms and Conditions.


Note:

Progressive games (such as Major Millions, Cashsplash etc): These types of games cannot be played with a Bonus Account.

The minimum amount you may transfer from your Bonus Account to your Deposit Account is 50 casino chips.

For all Non-VIP players: Any transfers from your Bonus Account to your Deposit Account are also subject to the below wagering requirements.

Deposit Account:
(Unless otherwise stated in the terms of a bonus or promotion)

You must meet the wagering requirements on your bonus through play in your Bonus Account (details above) and you must meet the wagering requirements stated below on your Deposit Account before a withdrawal will be allowed:


I've said earlier that T & C's are posted for every player (and Portal) to read and understand prior to depositing with us.Any experienced player will say this is good advice.
Fair enough, you don't accept that there was room for innocent mistakes with your enquiry to Belle, but our Terms and Conditions certainly didn't differ from reality as you say? Thanks again for your thoughts.
JohnD
Inyegrity Casinos

 

[Vesuvio]

Willy,

Thanks for taking the time to respond on this forum. I think your position on the bonus terms and conditions is reasonable - having to wager transferred funds obviously makes the offer less appealing, but I don't see it as being much different to increasing wagering requirements or banning particular games.

I understand you don't want to go into too much detail about "bonus abuse" and for different reasons I'd rather not either. The point about "the way you wanted the bonus to be played" was that there was a small change you could have made in the way you administered the bonus (without changing the terms and conditions) which would have significantly reduced the appeal to bonus hunters.

I do of course realise there are people who approach bonus hunting professionally, or ruthlessly, if you prefer, though there's a fine line. If I tell 20 people how to profit from a casino bonus I'm doing nothing wrong, but it may cost you more money in the end (as they tell their friends etc.) than one clear "bonus abuser" who does the offer 20 times on the same computer. The key from a casino's point of view must be to make an offer such that while being attractive it isn't too attractive, in which case whether there's fraud or not you're likely to get into trouble. But of course I realise you know much more about this than me & must be aware of forms of abuse which I don't have an inkling about!

 

[The Dude]

Hi All,

Since this has gone from a complaint to a discussion adn debate about bonus terms, I've moved it here. Thanks "willy" for your highly-valued participation.

 

[trick]

Willy:

I've said earlier that T & C's are posted for every player (and Portal) to read and understand prior to depositing with us.Any experienced player will say this is good advice.
Fair enough, you don't accept that there was room for innocent mistakes with your enquiry to Belle, but our Terms and Conditions certainly didn't differ from reality as you say? Thanks again for your thoughts.

Yes, there is room for mistakes - thats why I wrote your support later to be sure and got a different answer which I then passed on to the portal because the terms posted on their website differed from what I was told by your support. The portal then wrote your support about how to enterpret the terms at CCC and got this answer with a pretty clear example:

Thanks for your email.

It is true that you must wager any bonus, and the deposit used to claim the bonus at least 10 times (35 times on Blackjack and Video Poker).

So, if you deposited $100 and received a $200 bonus, you must wager the $200 bonus 10-35 times before you can transfer it or withdraw it, and you must wager the $100 10-35 times before you may withdraw.

I hope this was helpful; let me know if you have any other questions.
Kindest regards,
Forby Riou
The Endeavours Second Lieutenant
"Great Luck From Stern To Bow, Me Hearty!"

(I have this mail because it was posted in the thread where I asked the portal to check the terms). This is actually quite similar to the answer I myself got in the first place. But it is not how the terms work in reality....

As an experienced player I always read the terms carefully. When in doubt I contact the support, because I know it is important to fully understand under what terms you are playing. I always follow the terms to the letter.

That is also why I do not like that there is no way I can possibly predict what amount I will need to wager to be able to make a withdrawal if I win. I know progressives are excluded from this but hitting a RSF or any significant win is a much less enjoyable experience when you know the WR is going through the roof at the same time.

 

[Stanford]

Hi All,

Since this has gone from a complaint to a discussion adn debate about bonus terms, I've moved it here. Thanks "willy" for your highly-valued participation.

Hi Meister,

When I first did the review, I gave these bonus terms a thumbs down. With all the give and take, there is really very little different than what I described and the bonus progam still deserves a thumbs down.

Does it just drop off by itself? I think it is helpful for new players that are smart enough to do a search on a casino as it indicates a warning.

Stanford

 

[The Dude]

Hi Meister,

When I first did the review, I gave these bonus terms a thumbs down. With all the give and take, there is really very little different than what I described and the bonus progam still deserves a thumbs down.

Does it just drop off by itself? I think it is helpful for new players that are smart enough to do a search on a casino as it indicates a warning.

Stanford

I removed the "thumbs down" since I took it as a complaint; after reviewing the thread I felt that it was more or less a debate between a number of people both pro and con. (that's why I moved it back here). But since it was your initial thread, and your initial opinion - I'll let you have your thumb back.

 

[willy]

Question for Trick

One final question(whew).
Trick, are you certain you are not a VIP Player(with CCC or CK)?
JohnD
Integrity Casinos

 

[willy]

Trick

Hi Again Matey,
If there was something in particular that wasn't clear in our T & C's in your initial reading of them that prompted you to email our CSC staff for clarification, please let me know? I'd be glad to take this up with The Captain and have changes made if necessary.
We prefer them to be clear and concise for to avoid precisely what has happened here.If whatever staff member replied to you or the Portal by just re posting our T & C's cut/pasted from our website it would appear a little rude.
JohnD
Integrity Casinos

 

[Clayman]

Clayman, I'm unsure of protocols to follow here, but I'll certainly check into your mysteriously acquired VIP status for you.

Hi Willy
Sorry for the delay in replying but I was away for the weekend.

Once again I think you may mis-understand. I don't really care how I became a VIP. My only issue is how you expect a player to think he might be one given your website's definition of a VIP. Especially a player like me who had only done 2 cashouts in over 2 years, always playing with a bonus and always profiting.

Medusa quoted your website to you but then you replied:

Hi Medusa,
This statment is a guide to our players.The way it reads back a few posts with "nothing less will suffice"attached is in no way it's intended drift. I'm not sure where this came from but I'm certain that it's not on our website.

How you can interpret, or expect a normal person to interpret

"How Do I Become A VIP? Players are required to deposit a minimum of $600 and wager at least 50,000 casino credits in their deposit account. Its that easy!
Once you have met these requirements be sure to drop Barney the Rewards Bosun a line at: [email protected] so that you can be added to the VIP list and start taking advantage of all the fantastic promotions we have to offer!
* Players can be removed from the Vip list at Captain Cooks discretion.
** Players seen to be taking advantage of promotions for more than an enjoyable gaming experience may be removed from the Vip list."

as a guideline is beyond me. But so be it. To me, it leaves little "wriggle" room. If you actually think this is not on your website, look again. It is a little hard to find though - I'll give you that.

When you said

Hi Medusa,
Regardless, , we needed numbers, we couldn't just say....prove to us that you are genuinly treating our sites as entertainment and not involved in outright profiteering from every single generous Bonus you receive.

I don't know why you couldn't just say that. Especially since that is exactly what you do. Heaven forbid you actually say what you actually do.

I hope you seriously consider making a language change to your current definition of a VIP to more closely reflect the reality of what you actually do.

 

[willy]

Thanks

"If I e-mailed you guys would you be able to tell me when that status was bestowed upon me? Just curious. The CSR seemed to think if one made any purchase at all, as opposed to only using the free chip, he was a VIP because it shows a willingness to risk your own money."

I'm sure the above was in your post earlier matey, but since it doesn't seem to be an issue with you any longer I'll leave it be. Thanks again all, it's been great to have some interraction. Please feel free to contact us with any problems you may have.
JohnD
Integrity Casinos

 

[trick]

I just checked and much to my surprise, I am indeed a VIP at CCC. No idea how long I have been this and I'm sure the "wager 50.000" rule don't apply to me... Would have liked to be informed since it might have saved me a few hundred bucks, but I think that the lack of information regarding player status has been covered in this thread already, so no need to adress it again.

As to why I wrote support: I have not seen such T&Cs before and do not have a bouns account any other place. I was in doubt whether the "same" bonus wagering (10x) had to be done in both accounts or not... When I read the terms now after having been involved in this quite indepth and extensive thread I am in no doubt as to how to understand the terms. But as I said: at the time the concept of bonus accounts was new to me and I wanted to make sure I had understood it correctly... I read the terms under the assumption that I was not a VIP player...

Edit: I informed the portal in question about this thread some days ago and it is up to them to respond if they wish to. I'll remind them once more...

 

[Clayman]

"If I e-mailed you guys would you be able to tell me when that status was bestowed upon me? Just curious. The CSR seemed to think if one made any purchase at all, as opposed to only using the free chip, he was a VIP because it shows a willingness to risk your own money."

I'm sure the above was in your post earlier matey, but since it doesn't seem to be an issue with you any longer I'll leave it be. Thanks again all, it's been great to have some interraction. Please feel free to contact us with any problems you may have.
JohnD
Integrity Casinos

Thanks Willy - you're right

Anyway since I had only made 2 cashouts in 2 + years, I guess I can guess. But it's nice to know you would tell me if I asked. Which is really all I wanted to know - that is if you have the capability or not of knowing when you bestowed the status.

Plus, since I'm everything you appear to not want in a player, a serial promotion "abuser" who plays by the rules and has won all 3 times I've played, who hasn't even now deposited $600 and is still over $40,000 short in real account wagers, I'm afraid you may actually decide that your computer made a mistake in awarding me this status and revoke my VIP status which, as you clearly state, is your right. What"** Players seen to be taking advantage of promotions for more than an enjoyable gaming experience may be removed from the Vip list." means is anyone's guess. Most players, I think, would interpret this to mean "If you play only with promos and win, we will screw you because we can." And that's OK too.

It is the computer that awards the status rather than a subjective decision by management on a case-by-case basis, is it not?

Thanks again for offering, though. And, to your credit, you could probably figure out who I am anyway from the info I have given thruout the thread, if you really wanted to. So my guess is that it is not that big a deal to you.

Trick - I'm sure there are many hundreds, just like you and me, who are not alone in reading the T&C under the assumption you are not a VIP and of being quite surprised to discover your status and yet have never been informed of it. Unfortunately, the majority of these people will never know what their status actually is.

I just don't see why CCC can't extract all VIP's from their database and send them an e-mail tomorrow saying "We are pleased to inform you that you have VIP status with us". What can possibly be so difficult about that, I wonder?

And thanks again for participating in the dialogue, willy.

 

[willy]

reply

Thanks guys, I'm really happy that this discussion has taken place. It's cumbersome and tricky to accuratly portray ideas etc. via this medium, but all of you have been very forthrite and patient and I thank you for that.
This is a great site for airing views and we try to reasonably respond to as many posts that benefit from our response as possible.
I've taken up your point Clayman about emailing our VIP players, tho , I think that our automated system will take care of this situation before we get to the database. Of coarse there's a lot to be said for the email idea, but there's a few negatives as well.I don't think you all need to hear them... I do think it's a good idea tho' and will be looking into the possibality of doing something along those lines.To be honest until you guys brought this to my attention, I personally, had never really thought of VIP notification as a urgent issue. As stated, it's something we are currently building systems for, but quite possibly we'll need to do something in the interim. Thanks again, yer a great crew and welcome at Captains and the Kingdom anytime(regardless of winning on our Bonuses). Take the Best of Care All.
JohnD
Integrity Casinos

 

[Clayman]

To be honest until you guys brought this to my attention, I personally, had never really thought of VIP notification as a urgent issue.

It's only of some importance because of the possible very substantial effect it has on wagering requirements. Not to beat a dead horse.

Anyway I just wanted to thank you for your open-minded consideration of the issues here and taking the time, as you did, to jump in these sometimes potentially unfriendly waters.

Next suggestion - how about some plain old 100/100 wager $7000 deals?

 

[555YY]

hey, i'm relatively new here but i saw this thread and want to offer my 2 cents based on my own personal experience with cook

i deposited 100$ real money and received 200$ bonus, while playing with the bonus account, i made a surprising profit by playing blackjack 10$ a hand. I had 800$ in my bonus account when i fullfilled my bonus wr and transferred. i then played the 4000$ wr i THOUGHT would be enough to cover all bases and attempted to cash out.

after repeated communication with captain cook (faxing over my id docs), where they assured me everything was fine. about a week later they informed me they reversed the cashout because of these NEW terms and b/c i'm not a VIP member.

very surprised, i asked them why. they said i had to basically 800 * 35 more!! 28,000 more wr before i can cash out. imagine my surprise!! not to mention the fact that i should only wager 35 * my winnings which was 600 (200 was bonus money that i had already fullfilled wr on) and i have to do that within 7 days!!!!!

c'mon get real, these terms effectively negates any profit you can make from your bonus account, its a sad thing when the best alternative is to hope you break EVEN from your bonus account play so you dont have to fulfill any outstanding ridiculously high wr in such a short time frame

i have to agree with the thread starter and give cook a :THUMBS DOWN:

 

[trick]

Actually I went back and deposited just to try it out once more. Got the monthly bonus and lost it.. Played my own deposit and went up and down through the WR untill I finished with a huge 15$ overall win

I don't like the seperate accounts. I won't be playing the monthly bonus again. It feels like putting a WR on a normal deposit to be able to play with "play money" in a different account. To me, it just don't feel like a real bonus.

Maybe you could put somewhere in the T&C if WR carry over... I lost my bonus long before reaching the WR and I can't see anywhere if WR carry over to the next bonus... If you do write something be sure to make it clear how WR carry over BOTH for bonus accounts and real accounts.

Oh and one last thing... You should think about removing this rule:

All wagering requirements must be met within 7 days of the bonus being credited to the player account or the promotional bonus will be subject to deduction from the player's account.

Other than that, thanks again for a nice discussion. I wont be playing your bonuses the way it is designed, but maybe I'm not the kind of player you wish to attract anyways...

 

[Vesuvio]

It is a nightmare for beginners - but don't underestimate the autoplay. If you've got $800 extra you're more or less guaranteed a large profit. At fastest settings you can get up to 2000 hands an hour & you can take off 10% (or more) of the number of hands to take account of doubling and splitting. With a good connection and leaving your computer running for a day you can do it playing $1 hands. Your expected loss is only about $100, leaving you with an expected $700 profit.

Having said that I do agree it's not an ideal bonus system for the player.

 

[555YY]

It is a nightmare for beginners - but don't underestimate the autoplay. If you've got $800 extra you're more or less guaranteed a large profit. At fastest settings you can get up to 2000 hands an hour & you can take off 10% (or more) of the number of hands to take account of doubling and splitting. With a good connection and leaving your computer running for a day you can do it playing $1 hands. Your expected loss is only about $100, leaving you with an expected $700 profit.

Having said that I do agree it's not an ideal bonus system for the player.

hi, my personal results aside (i'll tell the story later on if there's time, basically i did as you suggested by w/ very surprising results) i just want everbody to know what these t&c feels like from a player's perspective:

most players play at a casino for FUN, win or lose, the main objective for a recreational player is FUN. the OBVIOUS pre-requisite of having "fun" is to be able to stop when you're "NOT HAVING FUN". and you can stop having fun for a variety of reasons, it doesn't have to be when you lose, it could also be when you're tired, bothered, bored, or have other committments (like a job)

now here comes this online casino that says 'here, try our site, we'll give you some free money if you play with some of your own money'

the player say 'great! what's the catch?'

casino 'well, you have to play a certain number of hands, regardless of you win or not, and regardless if you're having fun or not'

player 'well, i really don't want to keep playing longer if i'm not having fun, but i guess i can tough it out a little longer since i do get something extra'

now consider the following 2 scenarios:

scenario 1: player plays and lose, player is not having fun anymore, but he is still required to keep playing before he can cash out any remaining money that he has left

scenario 2: player plays and win (w/ bonus account), but now he has to play EVEN MORE (significantly more) hands before he can cash out ANYTHING, well player is also not having fun anymore; player thinks 'well, i hope i stop winning b/c i have to goto work in the next week and don't have time to play all those EXTRA hands' (it's a sad day when you hope you STOP winning for the sake of future)

so regardless of if you win or lose, you will stop having fun playing there: you lose you have to play more hands, you win you have to play EVEN MORE hands. why would you play there? I think i will stick with the casinos from now on that tell you beforehand when you can quit....

 

[Clayman]

Oh and one last thing... You should think about removing this rule:All wagering requirements must be met within 7 days of the bonus being credited to the player account or the promotional bonus will be subject to deduction from the player's account.

I have never cashed out within 7 days of purchase, or even close. They have never enforced this "rule". Different CSR's have told me they rarely, if ever, enforce it. At least here, unlike the VIP status rule, they use the word "subject to" rather than "required". So the way I read it, they are merely maintaining their right to do this without saying whether they will or not.

Essentially it contributes to the over-all impression that CCC is not real bonus-player friendly. Because, yes, it sure is easy to think this is what they will do.

I don't like the 2 separate accounts either as a $50 bankroll*35 is essentially unplayable for me. Now if I had the whole $150 in the same account, it would be a different story.

I would gladly play the 100/216 wager 11,060 every day.

Matters aren't helped by where the definition of VIP is. You really have to look long and hard to find it.

 

[ftg]

I don't like the 2 separate accounts either as a $50 bankroll*35 is essentially unplayable for me. Now if I had the whole $150 in the same account, it would be a different story.

I would gladly play the 100/216 wager 11,060 every day.

I got confirmation from CCC's CRS that players can request to close the bonus account, keeping only the REAL account but the bonus money will be smaller.

For their monthly bonus:

"Deposit $100 and the Captain will sail a $50 bonus into your bonus account.

If you do not have a bonus account you will receive a $25 bonus into your deposit account. "