Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

So back in the real world, where 'I bought cauliflower' isn't seen as some sort of mega-own of those of us who would have preferred to remain in the EU, the slow-motion economic calamity that Brexit is inflicting on the UK is becoming increasingly apparent, and internationally reported on.

I've largely stopped bothering with this sort of stuff but if dunover is literally going to post I WENT SHOPPING AND BOUGHT THINGS as a Brexit win, I'll give myself a pass.

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[pinnit2014]

Doing a bit of a disservice to Dunover's Cheesy Bits, sorry bites.

 

[mack341]

A new thing I don't like is the removal of best before dates on food, especially vegetables and salad ingredients etc... not sure if it is brexit related and whether the change has happened anyway in the EU as well [or IOM].

My fridge gets pretty cold, so salad doesn't smell off before the obvious physical signs of being too old appear, iceberg lettuce seems to look okay for ages but factually can't be, it must be going off, and without a date how are you suppose to know how long it is past its best before time.

I used to use the dates as helpful information but not a deciding one. The supermarkets themselves will know but we can't be trusted to not throw away perfectly eatable food. It's nannying, and as useful and logical as the ukgc autoplay ban.

 

[dunover]

A new thing I don't like is the removal of best before dates on food, especially vegetables and salad ingredients etc... not sure if it is brexit related and whether the change has happened anyway in the EU as well [or IOM].

My fridge gets pretty cold, so salad doesn't smell off before the obvious physical signs of being too old appear, iceberg lettuce seems to look okay for ages but factually can't be, it must be going off, and without a date how are you suppose to know how long it is past its best before time.

I used to use the dates as helpful information but not a deciding one. The supermarkets themselves will know but we can't be trusted to not throw away perfectly eatable food. It's nannying, and as useful and logical as the ukgc autoplay ban.

I do like that myself, as from experience I regularly eat (all well refrigerated) eggs 2-3 weeks past stamped date, yogurts 2 weeks past, lettuce 1 week and numerous other items. Bugger-all wrong with them, the nanny dates are over cautious. I hate wasting food, especially as Brexit has reduced us to near-starvation. Simple - if it smells like a turd, looks like a turd, it is a turd. Otherwise it's good to consume. Your natural human instincts and senses will tell you when not to eat something.

 

[dunover]

Doing a bit of a disservice to Dunover's Cheesy Bits, sorry bites.

I think my cheesy poofs and straws are UK manufactured so as with many other things were never endangered. I seem to recall it's the EU stuff like prosecco and wine and shitty French cheses etc. @ChopleyIOM reliably told us once that would be problematic. Which they never were.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I think my cheesy poofs and straws are UK manufactured so as with many other things were never endangered. I seem to recall it's the EU stuff like prosecco and wine and shitty French cheses etc. @ChopleyIOM reliably told us once that would be problematic. Which they never were.

There was a massive logistics exercise undertaken by all the major supermarkets and their supply chains to keep shelves fully stocked after the transition period ended, they threw a huge amount of money and resources at it (remember, Brexit has added around 6% onto the price of everyone's shopping, and this is part of why). So yes, the end result for the consumer was, in the main, that they didn't notice much difference when they went shopping, but there was a fuckton of very expensive logistics work behind the scenes to make it happen - and those costs were passed onto the consumer.

Again though, we're back to 'Brexit didn't make this shit, and you said it might make it shit, so Brexit wins', it's a sign of how far the Brexit star has fallen that this is what we're left with.

All the lofty Brexit promises have crumbled to dust, every single one, so instead we get dunover's annual shopping report. NEWS JUST IN - DUNOVER BUYS CARROTS, BREXIT IS VINDICATED.

 

[dunover]

There was a massive logistics exercise undertaken by all the major supermarkets and their supply chains to keep shelves fully stocked after the transition period ended, they threw a huge amount of money and resources at it (remember, Brexit has added around 6% onto the price of everyone's shopping, and this is part of why). So yes, the end result for the consumer was, in the main, that they didn't notice much difference when they went shopping, but there was a fuckton of very expensive logistics work behind the scenes to make it happen - and those costs were passed onto the consumer.

Again though, we're back to 'Brexit didn't make this shit, and you said it might make it shit, so Brexit wins', it's a sign of how far the Brexit star has fallen that this is what we're left with.

All the lofty Brexit promises have crumbled to dust, every single one, so instead we get dunover's annual shopping report. NEWS JUST IN - DUNOVER BUYS CARROTS, BREXIT IS VINDICATED.

Well, your doom-laden prophecies (usually copied and pasted from woke/lefty/remoaner press) failed to materialize. Doom predicted for supply of sprouts, turkeys and every other item deemed reliant upon EU labour funnily enough were plentiful - as usual. These pseudo-intellectual, patronizing and condescending spoutings always make one big mistake - omitting to factor in human ingenuity and capitalism. For those of you at the back, this preceded any economic treaty, EEA, EEC, EU or whatever acronym is in fashion now. In plain English it means that in a free economy where persons are able to create, own and hold wealth then if there's a demand and a profit to be made, it will be supplied. Every time. And still is, Brexit or no Brexit.

SHOCK HORROR! Businesses and people are far more creative and adaptable (despite being scores of points below remainers in the IQ stakes apparently) than the EU, their bureaucrats and certain elements of the the press would have you believe.

Damn those freethinking and acting individuals operating outside of the big kollectiv. Wankers!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well, your doom-laden prophecies (usually copied and pasted from woke/lefty/remoaner press) failed to materialize. Doom predicted for supply of sprouts, turkeys and every other item deemed reliant upon EU labour funnily enough were plentiful - as usual. These pseudo-intellectual, patronizing and condescending spoutings always make one big mistake - omitting to factor in human ingenuity and capitalism. For those of you at the back, this preceded any economic treaty, EEA, EEC, EU or whatever acronym is in fashion now. In plain English it means that in a free economy where persons are able to create, own and hold wealth then if there's a demand and a profit to be made, it will be supplied. Every time. And still is, Brexit or no Brexit.

SHOCK HORROR! Businesses and people are far more creative and adaptable (despite being scores of points below remainers in the IQ stakes apparently) than the EU, their bureaucrats and certain elements of the the press would have you believe.

Damn those freethinking and acting individuals operating outside of the big kollectiv. Wankers!

Yes it's true, some of the fears of Remain weren't realised, this is a good thing, no one wants to see people struggling to get their weekly shop in. (But again, it costs 6% more than it would have done without Brexit.)

The key point here is Remain, by definition, never wanted any of this shit in the first place, it was done to us, against our will. So the bigger issue here is where have all the Brexit promises gone? The stuff that Brexit was sold on, all the benefits and improvements it would bring to the UK and the lives of your average UK citizen, where's all that? Remain said all along that the Brexit promises were lies, and so it has proved to be the case.

Remain had some hits and misses with its predictions, but Leave has missed every single one, Brexit has failed entirely on its terms, right down to stopping the dinghies coming across the channel, and setting fire to the Dublin Regulation in the process, which actually makes it worse.

You're literally presenting the fact you went shopping as some kind of slam dunk ownage of doom-mongering Remoaners, like that's some kind of win, 'Hey folks, guess what, we got Brexit done, and we got our shopping done! Take that Remoaners!'

 

[mack341]

I do like that myself, as from experience I regularly eat (all well refrigerated) eggs 2-3 weeks past stamped date, yogurts 2 weeks past, lettuce 1 week and numerous other items. Bugger-all wrong with them, the nanny dates are over cautious. I hate wasting food, especially as Brexit has reduced us to near-starvation. Simple - if it smells like a turd, looks like a turd, it is a turd. Otherwise it's good to consume. Your natural human instincts and senses will tell you when not to eat something.

I also hate food waste and often keep and use eggs after the use by, probably 10 days - tho I did not realise nearer 3 wks was a possibility!

Lidls never used to have dates on a lot of veg, sometimes they'd have a picked date, but often the potatoes would be rank, sprouting in the bag or with shades of green skin you had to peer closely through the brown plastic bag to notice, broccoli going yellow, they were anti food waste champions, way ahead of their time!

I suppose some or even many seeing a 'best' before date don't realise it is a very rough estimate, and best doesn't mean shouldn't eat beyond that or not good for you to do so.

Afaik they haven't applied it to dairy or meat/fish/poultry, I bought a chicken sandwich the other day it was reduced in price as the use by was that day, so theoretically I could eat it at 11.58pm and be okay but 3 mins later it's poisonous, it doesn't make sense and is wasteful when you multiply by the millions of food objects/products.

 

[paul7388]

I also hate food waste and often keep and use eggs after the use by, probably 10 days - tho I did not realise nearer 3 wks was a possibility!

Lidls never used to have dates on a lot of veg, sometimes they'd have a picked date, but often the potatoes would be rank, sprouting in the bag or with shades of green skin you had to peer closely through the brown plastic bag to notice, broccoli going yellow, they were anti food waste champions, way ahead of their time!

I suppose some or even many seeing a 'best' before date don't realise it is a very rough estimate, and best doesn't mean shouldn't eat beyond that or not good for you to do so.

Afaik they haven't applied it to dairy or meat/fish/poultry, I bought a chicken sandwich the other day it was reduced in price as the use by was that day, so theoretically I could eat it at 11.58pm and be okay but 3 mins later it's poisonous, it doesn't make sense and is wasteful when you multiply by the millions of food objects/products.

The best before date simply means the quicker you use something the better the quality it should be but normally nothing in it that will harm you a few days after the date as long as it still seems okay to eat.

Whereas if it has a use by date instead off a best before date it's not recommended to eat it after the date as the product or ingredients in it could start to go off after certain amount of time and could make person ill or give food poisoning once it starts to go.off.

 

[mack341]

The best before date simply means the quicker you use something the better the quality it should be but normally nothing in it that will harm you a few days after the date as long as it still seems okay to eat.

Whereas if it has a use by date instead if a best before date it's not recommended to eat it after the date as the product or ingredients in it could start to go off after certain a out of time and could make person ill or give food poisoning once it starts to go.off.

I wonder whether other coutries/regions are following suit, like the US and the EU. [In a similar way autoplay is allowed on slots all round the world, for player's convenience and enjoyment, except the uk, does the ukgc know better than everyone else how to combat problem gambling.]

I'd have preferred they kept the dates system but with some better text and explanation, which can be clearly seen.

Sainsbury’s has calculated that its own changes alone could prevent the wasting of up to 11,000 tonnes of food every year, or 17 million individual packages of products

The supermarkets are all keen for it, which is a bit odd on the surface, business wise, as people at home chucking away some veg and going out & buying some more to replace it is good for their profit line, therefore it could actually be the supermarket/suppliers themselves that are chucking away tonnes of food due to the dates, because they cannot sell it quick enough at the price demanded.

 

[mack341]

Daily Express:

THE EU is sitting on a huge debt "volcano" that everyone pretends is dormant but is preparing to erupt with destructive force, a top analyst has warned.

Vesuvius is not expected to erupt any time soon but it is a different matter for the euro, Batstone-Carr warned. “Europe’s population and financial markets blithely go about their business seemingly unaware of the pressures building in the vast magma chamber that is the regional banking system.”

Under the single currency, fiscally sound Germany stands behind debt issued by poorer southern states.

This is an effective subsidy, allowing “the more vulnerable economies of Italy, Spain, Greece and others to piggyback on Germany’s debt rating”, he said

Latest European Central Bank (ECB) data shows these subsidies are growing, with TARGET 2 cross-border eurozone transfers suffering huge imbalances that “are growing with every day that passes”, Batstone-Carr said.

Germany is by far the biggest creditor, owed a massive €1.23trillion, while Italy has a deficit of €670billion followed by Spain at €484billion.

Some countries’ central banks are now holding Germany hostage by using the system to fund their own insolvent commercial banks, he added.

We risk “an eruption at the core of the European project’s financial system”, that would trigger “a chain of events which could escalate swiftly into something severe”, Batstone-Carr said, calling the danger “spine-tingling”.

Julian Jessop, economics fellow at the Institute of Economic Affairs, said the financial imbalances at the heart of the euro area are likely to grow. “The single currency will only survive if the stronger members are willing to prop up the weaker ones, which requires large subsidies and debt sharing.”

He said this problem has been brewing for some time. “The end of the long period of very low interest rates is now coming to an end and this will worsen the problems faced by high debt countries like Italy and Greece.”

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If this does happen the old UK and brexit will no doubt, somehow, get the blame by remoaner msm, who will probably contend the EU system was fine with no inherent flaws until a leading member upped and left.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Daily Express:

THE EU is sitting on a huge debt "volcano" that everyone pretends is dormant but is preparing to erupt with destructive force, a top analyst has warned.

Vesuvius is not expected to erupt any time soon but it is a different matter for the euro, Batstone-Carr warned. “Europe’s population and financial markets blithely go about their business seemingly unaware of the pressures building in the vast magma chamber that is the regional banking system.”

Under the single currency, fiscally sound Germany stands behind debt issued by poorer southern states.

This is an effective subsidy, allowing “the more vulnerable economies of Italy, Spain, Greece and others to piggyback on Germany’s debt rating”, he said

Latest European Central Bank (ECB) data shows these subsidies are growing, with TARGET 2 cross-border eurozone transfers suffering huge imbalances that “are growing with every day that passes”, Batstone-Carr said.

Germany is by far the biggest creditor, owed a massive €1.23trillion, while Italy has a deficit of €670billion followed by Spain at €484billion.

Some countries’ central banks are now holding Germany hostage by using the system to fund their own insolvent commercial banks, he added.

We risk “an eruption at the core of the European project’s financial system”, that would trigger “a chain of events which could escalate swiftly into something severe”, Batstone-Carr said, calling the danger “spine-tingling”.

Julian Jessop, economics fellow at the Institute of Economic Affairs, said the financial imbalances at the heart of the euro area are likely to grow. “The single currency will only survive if the stronger members are willing to prop up the weaker ones, which requires large subsidies and debt sharing.”

He said this problem has been brewing for some time. “The end of the long period of very low interest rates is now coming to an end and this will worsen the problems faced by high debt countries like Italy and Greece.”

-----------

If this does happen the old UK and brexit will no doubt, somehow, get the blame by remoaner msm, who will probably contend the EU system was fine with no inherent flaws until a leading member upped and left.

That's quite a leap mack! So there's something that might happen in the future, and if it does, Remoaners will blame Brexit.

The dynamic being described there is nothing new, there have always been stresses and strains within the single currency, precisely because not all economies in the EU are created equal. We've seen it go pear-shaped before with Greece, for example.

One of the best things Gordon Brown ever did was keep the UK out of the single currency, which I was never a fan of, or advocate for.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A decent analysis of the current state of play when it comes to Brexit, not from a particularly partisan viewpoint either, just making the case (entirely correctly) that Brexit is continuing to harm the UK economically, and no politician really dares to go anywhere near it, or engage with it properly.

A good read, and not too long either.

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[Daavid63]

Chopsy, Twice you quoted CNN...The yank equivalent to the Guardian.

Go cry into your Muesli

Brexit is done and I love every second remainers keep whinging about it. Have a Happy Brexit new year

 

[pinnit2014]

TBF to Chopley (and whilst i don't agree with his end of the world Guardian naysaying): economically, there's very little benefit to Brexit to be seen, quite the opposite and there isn't even a road map to get to the promised land. But, equally, it was never just a vote on fiscal policy and you'd be pretty naive to think otherwise.

Living with someone who works for a company in export/import they complain about it but it's nowhere near the doom scenario painted by some but, again, equally, wondering: why?

 

[pinnit2014]

Best bit of advice i heard recently was in a podcast by Neil Degrasse (focus on his excellent Cosmos programmes and not the recent 'accusations')

'I only read two 2 types of books/articles: those i don't understand and those with whom i disagree with' - we could probably all benefit from what (you too Chopley )

 

[ChopleyIOM]

TBF to Chopley (and whilst i don't agree with his end of the world Guardian naysaying): economically, there's very little benefit to Brexit to be seen, quite the opposite and there isn't even a road map to get to the promised land. But, equally, it was never just a vote on fiscal policy and you'd be pretty naive to think otherwise.

Living with someone who works for a company in export/import they complain about it but it's nowhere near the doom scenario painted by some but, again, equally, wondering: why?

This is the thing though pinnit, it's fine to have opinions about exactly where Brexit has landed in some regards, and yes, the jury is arguably still out on some aspects of it, but as you very rightly state, there is literally no plan whatsoever to get us to where the 'good stuff' might be. (And indeed no evidence to suggest good stuff is even on the horizon.)

I simply don't understand, like, my brain fails to process on a fundamental level, the idea that 'owning the libs' or 'seeing Remainers cry Remainer tears' makes any of this shit worthwhile, if someone is calibrating their happiness based upon how sad another human being feels about something, then that's a fucked-up state of affairs. I don't want to see unhappy people, because it's not nice to be miserable, so why find joy in the sadness of others?

I've said this before but I'll repeat it again, if Brexit had turned out to be a towering success, and Leavers could point to all the stuff it'd made loads better, I'd be the first to put my hand up and say, 'Fair play folks, I fucked up, you got your Brexit and it worked out well, good job', to be clear about this, I thought such an eventuality was massively unlikely, to the point of being a near impossibility, but it was a scenario that could have played out.

And here's the other thing, if Brexit works out and is a success, then it's a success for the UK, the UK does well, UK citizens do well, we all get better off and live in a more prosperous and successful country, and yes, if you wanted to stop those small boats coming across the channel, you got that too. (So why wouldn't even me, as a Remainer, want it to be a success? I don't want the UK to fail, I don't want the UK to be weaker.)

But literally none of it has happened.

And somehow we find ourselves in this bizarre Twilight Zone where dunover reports back every year on his ability to buy fucking carrots from a multi-billion dollar supermarket chain, and the only other measure of 'Brexit Success' is how sad other people are feeling about its utter and complete failure.

The Brexiteers got everything they wanted, the hardest possible Brexit short of a complete No Deal scenario, and here we are on the cusp on 2023, and all they've got is 'LOL you're sad and that makes me happy'.

Way to go guys, you totally nailed this one.

 

[pinnit2014]

Problem has been this mix of economic/fiscal benefits, social, legal, nebulous talk of getting back sovereignty (without really defining what that looks like), immigration - you get this cauldron with people voting for it for different reasons.

I didn't vote for it on the basis that the Brexit Team never sold it to me: had they said: 5 years of slight downturn, next 20 of major upturn - that was a tick for me in terms of the economy. But they didn't (though to be fair, the Remain campaign made hard work of batting that away) and if it does occur, which to be honest i very much doubt, i'd be surprised if i live to see it.

Immigration drain resources? I get that one - we have a small Island etc but the numbers quoted never stacked up their either

Impinging on our legal system - well, again, i can hand pick some in support of that but a lot of directives (EU Working time etc i agree with) so again, was never sold on that.

I do feel those claim Brexit hasn't been adverse on the economy as, lets be diplomatic, clutching at straws - the data, across many sources, completely refutes that. Spock would have a heart attack.

There has however been interesting questions, kinda related, re CV-19 - about the issues of a global supply chain - eg. the microchip shortage and the havoc things like that wrecked for products - possibly forcing companies to look inwards, not outwards because of that.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well don't worry, Rishi says that freeports are the big thing we're going to get out of Brexit. As Andrew Marr points out you can have freeports as an EU member, and GE pulled out of their planned investment (which Rishi cites here) earlier in the year, so that's a lie. Also, the freeports we did have weren't doing very well so Cameron nixed them back in 2012.

But other than that, yay freeports. (For the record, freeports are basically tax-dodging schemes for big corporations, so don't let anyone tell you they're going to boost the economy of make the lives of your average folks any better.)

Over six years after the referendum and that's all the UK's prime minister has on Brexit, lies about tax dodging schemes.

 

[mack341]

Rees mogg has got a lovely bonfire ready for Rishi, he just doesn't seem too keen to light the match.

 

[mack341]

ft:

ExxonMobil is suing the EU in a bid to force it to scrap the bloc’s new windfall tax on oil groups, arguing Brussels exceeded its legal authority by imposing the levy.

Exxon said the lawsuit was filed on Wednesday by its German and Dutch subsidiaries at the European General Court in Luxembourg City. It challenges the Council of the EU’s legal authority to impose the new tax — a power historically reserved for sovereign countries — and its use of emergency powers to secure member states’ approval for the measure.

Exxon was now considering “future multibillion-euro investments” in the continent, Norton added. “Whether we invest here primarily depends on how attractive and globally competitive Europe will be.”

The European parliament has protested against the commission’s repeated use of Article 122, saying that it undermines the democratic process even if laws would take much longer to pass with its involvement.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Arch-Brexiteer and famous cretin Daniel Hannan, having completely run out of people/organisations/hamsters to blame for the shitshow that Brexit and the UK have turned out to be, has now worked out whose fault it all ultimately is.

It's your fault! Bloody British public! Maybe we should have a referendum on replacing the British with some better people, or something.

Truly remarkable stuff.

(To give you an idea of this guy's track record, he's the one who assured us all, pre-referendum, that absolutely no one was talking about threatening the UK's place in the Single Market.)

So I hope you all feel suitably chastened and are going to go away and think about the mistakes you've made that have caused Daniel to get so upset.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Oh hang on Lord David Frost - (remember he's the one who actually negotiated our dogshit deal with the EU and told everyone how great it was, like he thought we'd all just forget about it, or something) - is blaming everyone else as well, apparently we're not believing in it enough and that's why it's not working. Not because it's crap.

I swear to god I was writing better stuff than this when I was studying GCSE English and was thinking far more about how I fancied one of lasses in the class, than actually concentrating on my work.

In a way though, this is all you need to see how Brexit has failed. Because all the people who advocated for it have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING they can point to that it's made better, or ever will make better (because, spoiler alert, it won't) - now it's just the Spiderman circular firing squad meme, pointing the fingers of blame at everyone else, but never looking at themselves and their part in it all. (Like Farage and his 'Britain is broken' Tweet, and I'm just like, yeah Nigel, and whose fault is that eh?)

 

[Daavid63]

It's your fault! Bloody British public! Maybe we should have a referendum on replacing the British with some better people, or something.

Really !!

The amount of dinghy divers arriving on English shores the last year, it seems to me the EU are pushing them across for that exact purpose. All going to be Labour voters that's for sure.
Just a thought eh chopsy.
2023 another great year to revel in remainer tears

Enjoy