Brexit - whats the difference.....

[Slottery]

I'm sure that this whole Brexit thing do have changes and makes some things more difficult than they were when part of EU, but none of these were secrets or something not publically available for anyone who likes to search. If people voted only for some weird gut feeling or some lobbyist's voice, then it is what it is, but wouldn't underestimate people to be that stupid.
Everything was there for all to see (who have an internet connection) and this was what the majority vote. People do survive whatever happens, now people got what they wanted, there's no blame to EU or UK, there was nothing hidden if you were willing to make little bit research before giving your vote leave or stay.

 

[thr0b]

Sadly, we have a uniquely right-wing newspaper industry in this country, with a lot of vested interests in leaving the EU. A lot of money was thrown behind a campaign in order to convince people that something that they gave little thought to for four decades was the source of many of their ills. And sadly, 26% of the country fell for it hook, line and sinker. 74% of the country did not vote to leave the EU, but 52% of those who voted did.

And I'd argue it was the racists that pushed it over the line; not that everyone who voted Brexit is racist. But every racist who voted, voted to leave. So now we're doomed to an ever shrinking economy, an irrelevant island nation run by Tories for their own gain forever.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'm sure that this whole Brexit thing do have changes and makes some things more difficult than they were when part of EU, but none of these were secrets or something not publically available for anyone who likes to search. If people voted only for some weird gut feeling or some lobbyist's voice, then it is what it is, but wouldn't underestimate people to be that stupid.
Everything was there for all to see (who have an internet connection) and this was what the majority vote. People do survive whatever happens, now people got what they wanted, there's no blame to EU or UK, there was nothing hidden if you were willing to make little bit research before giving your vote leave or stay.

The thing is Slottery none of that was being talked about.

The Leave side were literally driving around in a big red bus promising £350M extra per week for our NHS, and human detritus such as Farage was standing in front of massive Photoshopped images saying we were going to be overrun by migrants from Turkey.

At the same time we were assured that 'they need us more than we need them' and that we'd get 'the easiest trade deal in history'.

On the odd occasion some beardy economics professor tried to explain about 'country of origin' rules or 'customs equivalence' agreements, he was immediately shouted down as a boring PROJECT FEAR REMAONER, because who wants to hear about that tedious shite, right?

Four years later of course, we all know that the beardy economics professors were 100% correct.

The fact is that most people voted with their gut, Remainers included, because 99% of people didn't have a fucking clue about any of the boring technocratic shit that allows an organisation such as the EU to function. (And means that, for example, 'Just In Time' supply chains of ferocious complexity, work 24 hours a day, 365 days per year, to make sure our supermarkets are always well stocked, our chemists always have our medicines, and our factories always have the components they need to function.)

(Racists also voted with their racist instincts, you won't find a racist who voted to remain.)

IMO it's such a complex and nuanced issue it should have never gone to a referendum in the first place, we elect politicians to the House of Commons precisely so they can scrutinise all this complicated, important stuff and act in the best interests of the country.

And even if Remain had won, I'd say the same thing, simply by virtue of the fact we'd have had a narrow escape off the back of millions of people voting for something that they didn't really understand.

The truth is, neither Remainers or Leavers had any significant knowledge of the details of what they were voting for. Unfortunately the Leavers won, and they're going to take the rest of us down with them.

 

[thr0b]

A Brexiteer, Yesterday.

 

[thr0b]

Or to put it in a way more appropriate for a gamblers forum.

"We hold all the cards!"

The EU reveals their cards:



The Tory government reveals their cards.

 

[dunover]

Sadly, we have a uniquely right-wing newspaper industry in this country, with a lot of vested interests in leaving the EU. A lot of money was thrown behind a campaign in order to convince people that something that they gave little thought to for four decades was the source of many of their ills. And sadly, 26% of the country fell for it hook, line and sinker. 74% of the country did not vote to leave the EU, but 52% of those who voted did.

And I'd argue it was the racists that pushed it over the line; not that everyone who voted Brexit is racist. But every racist who voted, voted to leave. So now we're doomed to an ever shrinking economy, an irrelevant island nation run by Tories for their own gain forever.

LOL...never read the 'Independent' , Gradiuna, Mirror etc??
And our biggest news provider, the Neo-Marxist anti-BBC???

How on earth do you figure '74% never voted for it'? Even for a remainer, that's the most disingenuous piece of nonsenseI ever read!

34m Referendum votes, 45 million eligible voters at the time. So 17.4m/45m means 38.66% of the electorate voted FOR BREXIT!

More remoaner BS of which so much was peddled that it's no wonder they lost the vote!

Of course, your figures obviously are based on the WHOLE UK population of 67m, so include infants, babies, teenagers, prisoners, lunatics and Britain's Got Talents - Kids viewers.

 

[thr0b]

The circulation of the Independent, Guardian and Mirror is significantly lower than that of The Sun, The Mail, et al.

It is the case that the majority of eligible voters did not vote for Brexit. They did not care enough to vote either way, or did not feel they could make an informed choice. Even on your figures, 61.34% of people did not vote for it.

And frankly you lose any argument by claiming the BBC is biased to the left. Survey after survey reveals no matter your political persuasion, you believe the BBC is biased against you. It's about as balanced as it can reasonably be. (Though people do tend to equate balance with "giving equal credence to nonsensical arguments", which isn't the same thing, and something the BBC is often guilty of.)

You'll never admit you've been sold a pup, even now when you can go into any supermarket and see the effects of a brief blip in the supply chain. Five months to replicate the trade deal we had with the EU. Five months to fix it all, in the middle of a pandemic, with an apathetic government. Hold tight.

 

[goatwack]

It was almost certainly an emotions-led campaign to leave in that particular zeitgeist, with no doubt quite a few mistruths and 'embellished' scenarios peddled.

Yet that's true for every election or referendum in history, reverse-engineering things five years after the fact doesn't actually achieve anything, as that was the outcome at the time. So barring a 2nd Referendum pre-Brexit or time machine, the outcome is set.

To denigrate one side because they 'won' ad nauseam not only looks selfish, but insults every democratically-elected result. Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing, but then we could nit-pick every election held ever, fact is it won't change anything. It's about getting on with the task at hand, however inconvenient it may be for some? Most?

 

[thr0b]

Given that the 2016 referendum was in itself a second referendum, I'm happy to denigrate it

 

[dunover]

Given that the 2016 referendum was in itself a second referendum, I'm happy to denigrate it

No, it wasn't. 1973 was a vote in favour of joining the EEC. A vote about a trading bloc.

2016 was a vote about leaving the EU, a political union which successive treasonous governments had allowed the UK to be sucked into.

This is what the EEC was allowed to morph into, mainly at the behest of the French and Germans.

If we're talking about 'being sold a pup' then remainers telling us that 11% of a foreign parliament is somehow better than 100% of our own parliament, therein was the biggest lie of all.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing, but then we could nit-pick every election held ever, fact is it won't change anything. It's about getting on with the task at hand, however inconvenient it may be for some? Most?

The thing is Mr Goaty I'd broadly agree with you there, except the way that Brexit has been pursued by the Tories is in the head-bangiest, most damaging way possible.

There were all kinds of options available to the UK that would enable it to leave the EU but also retain cordial trading relations, free-flowing trade lines, beneficial data sharing, along with access to crime databases, the EU Galileo project and so on. (Customs Union for example, but of course that meant not TAKING BACK ENOUGH CONTROL.)

Except Theresa May drew all her insane red lines (without even understand the implications of them), and we've been locked into ever decreasing circles ever since, to the extent that we've ended up staring down the barrels of a No Deal Brexit (which was what the ERG head-bangers, disaster capitalists and their ilk were after all along) - and the UK government is desperately scrabbling to turn Kent into a lorry park.

Against that backdrop of government incompetence and indifference, it's hard not to get a bit grumpy.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Sorry and just to add, them not taking the transition extension for 12 months, in the middle of a global pandemic, was idiocy on an intergalactic level, and deeply cruel as well considering the damage it will cause.

We're out of the EU, we've left, extending the transition hurt no one and would give British businesses a chance to recover from Covid before the economic shock of Brexit came along, and indeed give them chance to prepare for Brexit, but nope - full steam ahead.

That tells you all you need to know about what the hardcore Brexiteers really care about. I mean, dunover's pretty Brexity (you might have noticed ), but even he said a few pages back that extending the transition was the sensible thing to do.

 

[goatwack]

The thing is Mr Goaty I'd broadly agree with you there, except the way the Brexit has been pursued by the Tories is in the head-bangiest, most damaging way possible.

There were all kinds of options available to the UK that would enable it to leave the EU but also retain cordial trading relations, free-flowing trade lines, beneficial data sharing, along with access to crime databases, the EU Galileo project and so on. (Customs Union for example, but of course that meant not TAKING BACK ENOUGH CONTROL.)

Except Theresa May drew all her insane red lines (without even understand the implications of them), and we've been locked into ever decreasing circles ever since, to the extent that we've ended up staring down the barrels of a No Deal Brexit (which was what the ERG head-bangers, disaster capitalists and their ilk were after all along) - and the UK government is desperately scrabbling to turn Kent into a lorry park.

Against that backdrop of government incompetence and indifference, it's hard not to get a bit grumpy.

That's the thing, we expect them to act out our wishes based on having got in power, seemingly we've been given the Tories (as probably the most 'competent' from the choice presented) to enforce a favourable outcome for the UK, in its stead we had croaky body-popping May and now a guy who drives Brexit trucks through walls.

Most disappointing of all was the lack of a Brexit extension (Brextension) as it clearly benefits no one. And as much as I placed my forlorn hopes on Boris to exact a favourable outcome for all and sundry, his 'lack' of leadership skills through the current Corona cock-ups leaves me questioning his validity. Perhaps a step too far from his London Mayor/ party maverick days.

I almost feel May, and even Cameron (gulp) were more clued-up and capable. Though ultimately the fallout of Brexit will affect none of them, it must be noted.

 

[Sidmanaman73]

Only once the Great British public have to stand in line at Spanish passport controls sweating for 4 hours as the fast track entry is for EU nationals, then wonder why checking what's app messages costs them a £1 a pop because the roaming charges are no longer harmonised will it start to sink in. Granted, the virus currently infesting the world will drop foreign travel for now, but once it reboots they will claim not to know this was on the line. Oh, and the EHIC medical benefits soon to be bolted onto travel insurance. to name but a few things. But as highlighted more than once in this thread, (it's been running a while!) most of the protagonists of this phoney war will be resting in Spanish Villas / South of France / idyllic tax havens whilst we are in the midst of it all. Staking £2 a spin on a mandatory 2.5 second game cycle to save us from the evils of online gambling. I despair.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Here is IDS reacting to the passage of the WA through parliament. The WA he voted for.

Sometimes it's almost as if they have no fucking clue what they're doing.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Sadly, we have a uniquely right-wing newspaper industry in this country, with a lot of vested interests in leaving the EU. A lot of money was thrown behind a campaign in order to convince people that something that they gave little thought to for four decades was the source of many of their ills. And sadly, 26% of the country fell for it hook, line and sinker. 74% of the country did not vote to leave the EU, but 52% of those who voted did.

All seems perfectly reasonable to me.....

EU WANTS TO MERGE UK WITH FRANCE

 

[goatwack]

Were those.....actual headlines?

My favourites are EU Threat To Our Gardens & Queen Backs Brexit

 

[Sidmanaman73]

All seems perfectly reasonable to me.....

EU WANTS TO MERGE UK WITH FRANCE

View attachment 138656

I do wonder how they will change the narrative once the EU cannot be blamed for everything? No doubt it will be Antifa and the BBC held to account for the lowering of food standards and employment rights. This sh!trag isn't fit to be chip paper. Good job really, I'm sure chips would be banned by the EU somewhere in this colossal diatribe.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Thank god we faced down those EU oppressors when they tried to take our kettles off us though.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Good job really, I'm sure chips would be banned by the EU somewhere in this colossal diatribe.

We had both EU BANS MUSHY PEAS and EU BANS FISH AND CHIPS.

The mushy peas one had an exception, and the fish and chips one was not being allowed to serve them in newspaper, except that was actually a UK law.

I mean, Boris Johnson literally boasted about the fact he used to flat out make shit up when he was the EU correspondent for the Telegraph because it sold loads of papers.

No surprises in the 'news' papers that ran the stories......

 

[ChopleyIOM]

And on the mushy peas one, for example.

That's the sort of thing that used to happen ALL THE TIME.

The EU would propose something, member states would all get to have their say, and time and time again the UK would get its way with exceptions, even over such mundane stuff as being able to use artificial colouring in traditional British mushy peas.

EDIT TO ADD - And when I say 'The EU' I mean the EU Parliament, which of course we had shitloads of our own MEPs in, so it's not like some alien body we had no say or influence in.

We had so much bloody influence in the EU, we were a real top table member, and it's all been thrown in the fucking bin.

And for what? Absolutely piss all except everything getting more fiddly, difficult, awkward and expensive.

(And we're going to end up replicating boatloads of EU standards anyway, because we have to, because they'll still be our single biggest trading partner, like the chemical standards stuff I posted a couple of pages back. Except now of course, we won't have any say in them.)

I'm reminded of the list I posted back on Page 3 of this very thread, whereby the stats show that 72 out of 34,105 EU laws were actually objected to by the UK and we had them 'forced' on us, and I asked someone to pick one of the 72 that they were particularly upset by. No answer.

Well the answer was it was THE PRINCIPLE of having things forced on us, whether or not we care about it.

Anyway, just watch what happens when we enter trade 'negotiations' with the USA, you'll see what having stuff forced on us really looks like then......

Brexit - whats the difference.....

 

[thr0b]

The language was always emotive as well; see the use of words like "NOW" to start sentences - angered exasperation designed to provoke a reaction in the readership. "GREEDY EU FATCATS" etc. Always the same.

All the while we're paying people in the house of lords a daily amount that is MORE than the amount someone on Universal Credit receives in a month.

This country is a disgrace. If I could afford to move elsewhere, I would. Except that referendum removed my right to just go and settle on the continent without hassle.

 

[thr0b]

The language was always emotive as well; see the use of words like "NOW" to start sentences - angered exasperation designed to provoke a reaction in the readership. "GREEDY EU FATCATS" etc. Always the same.

All the while we're paying people in the house of lords a daily amount that is MORE than the amount someone on Universal Credit receives in a month.

This country is a disgrace. If I could afford to move elsewhere, I would. Except that referendum removed my right to just go and settle on the continent without hassle.

Oh, and the same spivs that gamed the referendum for their own ends and are now in charge of the country have spent hundreds of millions on PPE that CANNOT BE USED. Purchased from companies which had no experience in the supply of PPE. Like confectioners. And off-the-shelf companies which didn't exist previously.

And of course, they're owned by companies linked to MPs.



I will never, ever get over this referendum. A bonfire of rights to aid the bank accounts of a bunch of cunts.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well at least it's good old fashioned British corruption.

That's basically the story of Brexit, nearly everyone gets fucked whilst a few rich liars and disaster capitalists get to make out like bandits.

And guess who ends up paying the bill.

Brexit is the crime of the century, you've almost got to admire the breathtaking scale and scope of the con job they've managed to pull off.

 

[09237653]

Corruption is fine to brexiteers apparently, as long as its good old British/Russian corruption.