Brexit - whats the difference.....

[Mr_Slot5]

The backstop is supposedly just there as an insurance policy if no final deal can be agreed, so on the 31st oct we leave the EU but enter a two year period of continued free trade while a full trade deal is negotiated. Why do we have to agree a backstop now that if a final deal is not reached within two years, the EU rules/laws will then apply to northern ireland and there is no legal right to exit this arrangement without the EU agreeing. Does this sound like the kind of condition any right thinking prime minister would agree to, to just cede away sovereignty from a part of the UK? Talk about negotiating with a loaded gun pointing at your own head.

It's just a BS trap as far as I can tell...maybe I'm missing something? The uk has a greater sovereign right/link to northern ireland than the EU does with ireland, surely. Imagine we tried the opposite and said to protect northern ireland, the republic of ireland needs to be our backstop and in the event no deal is reached after two years must follow uk rules, how would that go down?

Yes but a lot of remainers only want to see it from the side of the EU and what is in the interests of 'the club'.

They seem to not care what powers are ceded to the EU and it's downright strange.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

They seem to not care what powers are ceded to the EU and it's downright strange.

Given the pantomime villain antics of Johnson, the stunning incompetence of May, and over a decade of grinding Tory austerity, I'd happily give the EU more powers, not less. I trust them far more than I do our current government. The EU have conducted themselves with dignity, respect, and have repeatedly held out the hand of friendship to us, in return we've given them an incompetent clown in the form of Johnson to deal with, following on from the sly and untrustworthy May.

I mean, the most powerful man in the UK at the moment is Dominic Cummings, a man who has been held in contempt of parliament and was instrumental in a referendum campaign that broke the law - how many of you remember voting for him?

Then again I feel more European than I do British, despite having been born and bred in Manchester. I don't think being British is anything to be particularly proud of in and of itself, it's just the country I was born in. There are wonderful things about Britain of course, and many great British people, but the fact that they're British doesn't make them intrinsically worth more than anything or anyone else, and TBH I find British exceptionalism to be tiresome in the extreme, and it's behind much of the nonsense of the entire Brexit debate - this stupid idea that somehow we're 'better' than everyone else just because we're British.

We're just human beings, the same as everyone else.

 

[steveh35]

Given the pantomime villain antics of Johnson, the stunning incompetence of May, and over a decade of grinding Tory austerity, I'd happily give the EU more powers, not less. I trust them far more than I do our current government. The EU have conducted themselves with dignity, respect, and have repeatedly held out the hand of friendship to us, in return we've given them an incompetent clown in the form of Johnson to deal with, following on from the sly and untrustworthy May.

I mean, the most powerful man in the UK at the moment is Dominic Cummings, a man who has been held in contempt of parliament and was instrumental in a referendum campaign that broke the law - how many of you remember voting for him?

Then again I feel more European than I do British, despite having been born and bred in Manchester. I don't think being British is anything to be particularly proud of in and of itself, it's just the country I was born in. There are wonderful things about Britain of course, and many great British people, but the fact that they're British doesn't make them intrinsically worth more than anything or anyone else, and TBH I find British exceptionalism to be tiresome in the extreme, and it's behind much of the nonsense of the entire Brexit debate - this stupid idea that somehow we're 'better' than everyone else just because we're British.

We're just human beings, the same as everyone else.

Laura Keunessberg just said on BBC News at 10 the EU is refusing to budge if the EU won't budge how can you negotiate a deal, they are being totally unreasonable and they sure don't seem to want this to end soon.

 

[Playford7]

Can we all just have a moment to laugh at the ‘lib fems’ please.
Ty

 

[thr0b]

The backstop is there to protect Ireland and the EU.

Any problem leavers have with the backstop logically means they know that at the end of the transition, there is likely to be no workable solution to the backstop, ergo it will remain.

As should we.

 

[Harry_BKK]

The backstop is supposedly just there as an insurance policy if no final deal can be agreed, so on the 31st oct we leave the EU but enter a two year period of continued free trade while a full trade deal is negotiated. Why do we have to agree a backstop now that if a final deal is not reached within two years, the EU rules/laws will then apply to northern ireland and there is no legal right to exit this arrangement without the EU agreeing. Does this sound like the kind of condition any right thinking prime minister would agree to, to just cede away sovereignty from a part of the UK? Talk about negotiating with a loaded gun pointing at your own head.

It's just a BS trap as far as I can tell...maybe I'm missing something? The uk has a greater sovereign right/link to northern ireland than the EU does with ireland, surely. Imagine we tried the opposite and said to protect northern ireland, the republic of ireland needs to be our backstop and in the event no deal is reached after two years must follow uk rules, how would that go down?

It is the EU's fault the British people would not have voted to leave had the EU been a great place to be in, it isn't it is full of Luxembourg type leaders, they refuse to reopen the withdraw agreement so how can Johnson negotiate a new deal when they refuse to reopen it?

Corbyn says he will go to Brussels and get a new deal...they will not reopen the agreement how can he get a new deal?

The EU says it's all the UK's fault and the UK has to say what it wants, how can the UK say what it wants when the EU has said deal is closed not being reopened.

Clearly the EU is not open to renegotiation so what do you expect Johnson to do?

The EU is not open to change they have said constantly that they won't reopen the withdraw agreement therefore nothing can be changed until they grow up and start negotiating again like adults and stop blaming the UK for the EU's flaws that caused the UK people to want to leave.

If the EU was so great we wouldn't have voted to leave therefore they need to look at themselves and their rules.

I see the grand delusion is setting in and you started, as expected, the blame game.

As for negotiations, please go through the EU archives and read how willing the UK was to negotiate when it came to the outer border of the EU as it starting exanding after 1990 (e.g. Hungary/Serbia, Austria/Slovenia, Slovenia/Croatia, etc.) and how adamant your representatives (including Farage) were that there will be no budging from the UK site. Not a single iota. Of course, now they are asking for full flexibility. You know, that is called "what goes around, comes around" ...

Johnson in his "hulk-uesque" manner assured everyone that he has some clever alternatives to the backstop. Until now he presented ZERO .....can you read that??? I repeat it just for you..... ZERO

Plus, you will have probably insurmountable problems signing a trade deal with the US (you know, the one Johnson is thinking that he has already in the bag and will bring the UK vast and untold riches ) if there are any issues with the Irish border. The US Congress (the Irish faction) will not ever sign off a trade treaty if the Good Friday Agreement is somehow in jeopardy.

But please...keep on crying ..."wahawahawahawaha, the EU is so bad and the Luxembourg PM, oh, he is bad too" .... and trying to blame anyone and everyone but yourselves and your government. Johnson played a big political gamble and until now lost it in dramatic fashion. Accept it and move on or keep the "cry-me-a-river" going.

One more time, but I am sure it will not sink into your brains..... The EU offered to listen if Johnson can present something viable!!! Period! The buck is in his corner and no one elses.

 

[steveh35]

Can we all just have a moment to laugh at the ‘lib fems’ please.
Ty

The Lib Dems and Swinson have put themselves in a very silly position

Swinson claims if she wins an election that shows UK wants to stay in EU, but even Jo Swinson knows under First Past The Post only Tory or Labour will win so in effect she has in fact stated that the UK won't vote to remain in a general election.

She is also claiming that if Tory or Labour win they have to hold a second referendum but if Lib Dems win there will be no 2nd referendum.

Swinson is also facing a strong SNP challenge in her Scottish constituency so she may not even be an MP after an election.

The Lib Dems have really shot themselves in the foot with this policy and some are bringing the student tuition fees lies back out from the cobwebs.

It has also been noted that the late Paddy Ashdown stated there must be a second referendum as the people must decide.

Not a good week for Jo Swinson her party conference now overshadowed by Boris in Europe tour.

 

[colinsunderland]

 

[Jammie_Ch]

Brexit is the hot topic everywhere even at this casino forum.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

 

[dunover]

there is likely to be no workable solution to the backstop, ergo it will remain.
As should we.

And we could have if remain had won the referendum.

 

[steveh35]

Has Jo Swinson got any brain cells in her head she wants to win an election and gain 300 seats and she goes and calls 17.4m people "insular, closed and selfish".

I would suggest Ms Swinson if you want the Lib Dems to win anything that you might actually need the support of some floating voters who are undecided or swing voters and calling people names and denying the result of the largest democratic vote the UK has ever seen is not likely to help you achieve your aim.

 

[steveh35]

Tony Blair the biggest advocate of remaining in the EU, you would think the Lib Dems might like him but err apparently not.

 

[geordiecolin]

Given that the high court judges are placed in their positions to do the establishments bidding its little wonder that their decissions will be based on suiting an agenda.
Who would have guessed that the Scots deemed that Boris had erred?

 

[geordiecolin]

Has Jo Swinson got any brain cells in her head she wants to win an election and gain 300 seats and she goes and calls 17.4m people "insular, closed and selfish".

I would suggest Ms Swinson if you want the Lib Dems to win anything that you might actually need the support of some floating voters who are undecided or swing voters and calling people names and denying the result of the largest democratic vote the UK has ever seen is not likely to help you achieve your aim.

I think that the Lib Dems have isolated themselves both from some of their core supporters as well as from those that they wished to gain and this time round they will not pick up many seats via tactical voting like they may have done in recent times

 

[steveh35]

Given that the high court judges are placed in their positions to do the establishments bidding its little wonder that their decissions will be based on suiting an agenda.
Who would have guessed that the Scots deemed that Boris had erred?

Actually Sky News did some profile on the judges and quite a few of them have voted against the government before in the article 50 case, so they are not guaranteed to agree with the government.

 

[geordiecolin]

Actually Sky News did some profile on the judges and quite a few of them have voted against the government before in the article 50 case, so they are not guaranteed to agree with the government.

That may well be the case but if the establishment had of wanted Brexit then the whole issue would have been done and dusted long ago

 

[thr0b]

The Lib Dems have a clear policy; they prefer a second referendum. However if they won a majority in an election, their policy is to revoke, as that's a clear mandate on their manifesto. Both are valid positions.

 

[thr0b]

And again, the 2016 referendum had no more legal standing than a survey on Sky News or YouGov or SurveyMonkey. It was advisory. Parliament could have chosen to ignore the advice, and there would have been no comeback legally.

This is basic stuff. I wish leavers could actually understand this.

 

[steveh35]

The Lib Dems have a clear policy; they prefer a second referendum. However if they won a majority in an election, their policy is to revoke, as that's a clear mandate on their manifesto. Both are valid positions.

A clear policy? They are not going to win under first past the post so they know they won't have to implement the revoke they can say anything they want they know they won't be a majority government.

Have you never heard the Lib Dems promise things they can't implement before? a clue student fees.

 

[thr0b]

I don’t see what’s unclear about it. The chances of them winning a majority are slim, hence their preference for a referendum.

And the Lib Dem promise on student fees wasn’t workable as minority partners in a Tory government.

The Tories did a good job there. They managed to get the Lib Dems blamed for the Tory policies. Amazing bit of stagecraft really.

In the same way the Tories are currently painting all the problems of Brexit (which were predicted before the referendum and dismissed as Project Fear) as problems caused by remainers essentially “not below believing hard enough” in Brexit, as if like bringing Tinkerbell back to life we can be immune to the fact that the world has changed in half a century, and the UK on its own is an irrelevance to the rest of the world. And will become more so when the UK is down to England and Wales only.

 

[dunover]

A clear policy? They are not going to win under first past the post so they know they won't have to implement the revoke they can say anything they want they know they won't be a majority government.

Have you never heard the Lib Dems promise things they can't implement before? a clue student fees.

The LD's are an irrelevance. Swindleson is a liar anyway as I doubt the Electoral Commission would sanction another binary referendum anyway due to the first result not being enacted yet. Secondly, it would likely be stopped by judges for this reason, when leavers take it to the Surpeme Court and do the same as the self-publicist Miller did. Their definition of 'democrat' seems to be two fingers to 17.4 million voters, and they are essentially everything the nutters accuse Farage's party of being, i.e. an extremist fringe. And she really needs to see a dentist.

P.S. That video - notably not a mention as of yet on the BBC's website. Funny that. Oh, a few paratroops (white of course!) use an image of Corbum for target practice, gets on BBC News at Ten on TV.

The LD's remind me of the eurocraps we saw in that 2-part documentary filmed in Brussels after the Brexit vote - the public face is very different to the loud-mouthed drunken inepts and tw*ts they really are.

 

[steveh35]

French president and Finnish prime minister tells Boris he has 12 days to come up with a plan or that's it and the UK will have to leave with no deal.

That should upset the remainers and their extension plans.

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[goatwack]

Well if the Finnish president says so he'd better pull his finger out

 

[steveh35]

Well if the Finnish president says so he'd better pull his finger out

Sorry have amended the text