Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

Some serious taking back control going on in the US/UK trade talks.

Everything's going to be kept secret for five years.

I've been saying this for months folks, the USA are going to take us to the cleaners.

Turns out we're not really holding that many cards after all.

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[ChopleyIOM]

Latest 'The Things They Lied About Update' (there'll be lots more of these).

Remember this was one of the things Theresa May said 'No UK Prime Minister would ever agree to', Johnson got around this sticky problem by just lying to everyone's faces about it.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I know Coronavirus is grabbing all the headlines at the moment, however, it's worth keeping sight of the fact that the UK government has explicitly ruled out seeking an extension to the Brexit transition period, and on current trajectory, is looking like it'll crash us into a No Deal Brexit at the end of the year.

On top of the economic shock of Coronavirus, it doesn't take a genius to work out how massively damaging this is going to be.

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[ChopleyIOM]

Nope this isn't from a year ago, or two years, or three years ago. This is happening today.

David Davis is nothing is not optimistic. And stupid.

 

[Slottery]

This pandemic really has taken most of the attention in news, It will be interesting to see what's gonna happen by the end of the year. Can we expect some excuses how this has affect to everything and made it really difficult to get things done within time (where somebody could reply that there was also time before this pandemic).?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Reality continues to collide with rhetoric.

Lots more of this to come before the end of the year.

It'd take a staggeringly incompetent and cruel government to tip the UK into a No Deal Brexit in the aftermath of Covid-19....

YES MICHAEL THE EU SAID BEFORE THE REFERENDUM WAS EVEN HELD THAT THIS IS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Fuck me have you seen this letter we've sent to the EU, whinging and moaning, it reads like a school child complaining about being given too much homework, or a boyfriend/girlfriend begging not to be dumped.

Taking back control. Or something.

Guess who 'holds all the cards' here? HINT - Not the UK.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

 

[dunover]

Ah, the 'impartial' Blatantly Biased Corporation and their social media cronies again...

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[ChopleyIOM]

Ah, the 'impartial' Blatantly Biased Corporation and their social media cronies again...

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But it's true though, isn't it?

The man who stood in front of the country and said he drove 60 miles to test his eyesight and to see if he was safe to drive or not, during a national lockdown, with his wife and child in the car, is basically the architect of Brexit.

I wonder if he was lying about Brexit too? Is that a possibility, perhaps?

'The will of the people vs the unelected elites' - and here we have an entire elected government contorting itself into all sorts of ugly shapes to protect one unelected bureaucrat.

 

[09237653]

How's that brexit government working out then forelock tuggers?
YOU are responsible for the utter shitshow we are stuck with now.

Still we got brexit done huh, and the conservative donors are looking to make £4.6 billion from it, so that's some good news at least, as we sell our NHS (secretly) down the river to the US, reduce our food standards shred all that annoying red tape like pension rights, human rights, workplace regulations.

And no more unelected bureaucrats telling us with to do, well apart from cummings that is.

Taking back control.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I think it's clear from the polls that a considerable number of people in the UK are indeed realising that they've been conned, that they backed a charlatan, that they helped put a government into power that is dangerously, lethally incompetent, and tens of thousands of people in the UK have died of Covid-19 who shouldn't have done. Lives lost, on this government's watch, that shouldn't have been lost.

They've fucked up Covid-19 and they're going to fuck up Brexit too, because they are not up to the job, and as with Covid-19, they won't pay the price, we will pay the price.

This is what happens when you put a gameshow host into the most powerful office in the land, and he then surrounds himself with a cabinet chosen for its Brexiteyness, devotion, and sycophancy, rather than any actual ability to do their jobs well. And then for the icing on the cake the most powerful man in the land is an unelected bureaucrat, who is so pivotal to the government's operation that he is literally unsackable, even though he wrote, and then broke, the rules that so many millions of people in the UK made incredible sacrifices to follow.

Of course there are many who will never be able to admit that they got it wrong, you can see it already, it will be the EU's fault if Brexit goes horribly wrong, and we shouldn't criticise the government over Covid-19 because they are 'doing their best'.

The thing is, when it comes to Covid-19, it's just a virus. You can't blame a virus for being 'unreasonable' or 'negotiating in bad faith', it doesn't respond to flag-waving and you can't write lies about it on the side of a bus.

So we can compare ourselves with other countries around the world, and the truth is that by any metric, we have had the worst governmental response to Covid-19 just about anywhere in the world, despite the fact we had a forewarning of several weeks from countries such as Italy.

The government that got into power riding a wave of jingoistic lies about Brexit, has proven itself to be totally unfit for purpose. If we'd bought a kettle rather than this government, we'd return it to the shop as faulty goods.

Alas, we can't do that, so as we've watched in horror as tens of thousands of British people have been killed by this government's utter incompetence, they now get to fuck up Brexit as well.

And as with Covid-19, we will all suffer. You know who won't suffer? Boris Fucking Johnson.

 

[09237653]

Was expecting a huge backlash from that post (was pretty furious when I wrote it)

Still people support Boris it's really unbelievable at least on twitter it seems to be mostly bots and a few useful idiots.

Rest assured though they will not fuck up brexit, it'll be no deal exactly as planned, loosening the lockdown too early to ensure the second peak hits around mid-end June and no deal brexit will slide under the radar.

 

[dunover]

I think it's clear from the polls that a considerable number of people in the UK are indeed realising that they've been conned, that they backed a charlatan, that they helped put a government into power that is dangerously, lethally incompetent, and tens of thousands of people in the UK have died of Covid-19 who shouldn't have done. Lives lost, on this government's watch, that shouldn't have been lost.

They've fucked up Covid-19 and they're going to fuck up Brexit too, because they are not up to the job, and as with Covid-19, they won't pay the price, we will pay the price.

This is what happens when you put a gameshow host into the most powerful office in the land, and he then surrounds himself with a cabinet chosen for its Brexiteyness, devotion, and sycophancy, rather than any actual ability to do their jobs well. And then for the icing on the cake the most powerful man in the land is an unelected bureaucrat, who is so pivotal to the government's operation that he is literally unsackable, even though he wrote, and then broke, the rules that so many millions of people in the UK made incredible sacrifices to follow.

Of course there are many who will never be able to admit that they got it wrong, you can see it already, it will be the EU's fault if Brexit goes horribly wrong, and we shouldn't criticise the government over Covid-19 because they are 'doing their best'.

The thing is, when it comes to Covid-19, it's just a virus. You can't blame a virus for being 'unreasonable' or 'negotiating in bad faith', it doesn't respond to flag-waving and you can't write lies about it on the side of a bus.

So we can compare ourselves with other countries around the world, and the truth is that by any metric, we have had the worst governmental response to Covid-19 just about anywhere in the world, despite the fact we had a forewarning of several weeks from countries such as Italy.

The government that got into power riding a wave of jingoistic lies about Brexit, has proven itself to be totally unfit for purpose. If we'd bought a kettle rather than this government, we'd return it to the shop as faulty goods.

Alas, we can't do that, so as we've watched in horror as tens of thousands of British people have been killed by this government's utter incompetence, they now get to fuck up Brexit as well.

And as with Covid-19, we will all suffer. You know who won't suffer? Boris Fucking Johnson.

You have moved into the arena of raving lunacy now. Boris didn't suffer? Wasn't he nearly killed by COVID19?

So tens of thousands dead because of the government? I see, they created COVID to kill off their older voters! Yeah, great logic. So I suppose the Italian, French and Spanish governments are all at fault for killing 'tens of thousands'? Name me ONE government (with figures you can believe) that got it 100% right?

Maybe look closer to home, globalism and your part in it. The rush for cheap products you like to consume, made with cheap labour in foreign countries which we choose to turn a blind eye to when it comes to human rights, the environmental damage and abuses that go with it. The EU is no different, on a smaller scale with the rush for high production of goods and products which in many cases can be produced in individual countries without business flights and belching fleets of transcontinental lorries.

Imagine the 1918 Spanish (came from the USA actually) Flu which killed 50 million people. At that time travel was limited - imagine how much worse it would be if it had occurred today. From Wuhan to Rome in 16 hours. London to Paris in 2.

So yeah, if you want to take your proverbial kettle (probably Chinese) back to the store and swap it for one made in Turkey, go ahead. At the same time, take back your cheap clothes from Bangladesh, bin your imported mobile phone and PC. Eschew your higher standard of living. Nah, I thought not....

P.S. try revising your hysterical prognosis of the issue when it's all over and instead of being bereft of the facts, you'll have the full stats to measure against every country and their decisions. Or maybe don't, lie in your bed and dream starry dreams of how better it would have been with Corbum and Diane Abacus in charge, us still in the EU (no, really, it wasn't the 'Every-country-for-themselves Union!).

 

[09237653]

Still? Wow.

Nice whataboutism there with added 'now is not the time' and a bit of EU bashing for good measure the sun and express have trained you well.

You do realise despite us having plenty more warning than Italy and Spain we still managed to do worse than both and still counting, when the fck can we compare the numbers?

 

[sufferinsilence]

Imagine the 1918 Spanish (came from the USA actually) Flu which killed 50 million people. At that time travel was limited - imagine how much worse it would be if it had occurred today. From Wuhan to Rome in 16 hours. London to Paris in 2.

Most likely it originated in rural Kansas, picked up by a soldier who was shipping out to Europe. Travel might've been limited yet there was alot of travel due to troops movements at the end of WW I.

One of the main drivers behind so many getting ill was that soldiers who fell ill in the trenches were transported to hospitals, infecting others in the process. The other one, atleast in the USA, were big parades when the troops came back home.

Reason it's called Spanish flu is because the Spanish media, who were a neutral country during WW I, were the first to report on it.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

You have moved into the arena of raving lunacy now. Boris didn't suffer? Wasn't he nearly killed by COVID19?

And why did he catch Covid-19? Because he displayed the same degree of stupidity and cavalier attitude that he has applied to the greater public health emergency.

Remember when he boasted about shaking everyone's hand in the Covid-19 ward? A couple of weeks later he was in intensive care, because he's a bumbling idiot who thinks the rules don't apply to him and has lived his entire life as a liar, a chancer, and a charlatan - but he's met his match in the form of an invisible virus that he can't blag, intimidate, or lie his way past, and which is completely immune to his supposed 'charisma'.

I see that as of today Starmer now has a higher net approval rating than Johnson, Labour are closing in on the Tories in the polls as it is, and we haven't yet had the economic disaster of Brexit.

One term government, they'll be out on their arses at the next election.

Covid-19 wasn't of the government's creation, but they have fucked up the response to it on a biblical scale, and people can see it.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Brace for the nice food from the US. The NHS will be next.

Don't say you weren't warned.

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[Mr_Slot5]

I wonder how many people realise that a lot of the food they consume (packaged in the UK) has been chlorinated?

This isn't a new practice at all. In fact, your nice 'fresh' packaged salads you pick up at the supermarket have most likely been chlorinated. It's basically the weakest, most dilute, chlorine wash you could imagine.

Seems people are keen to jump all over it though.

As a relevant aside, don't we have some of the most microbe ridden chicken here in the UK?

 

[Harry_BKK]

I wonder how many people realise that a lot of the food they consume (packaged in the UK) has been chlorinated?

This isn't a new practice at all. In fact, your nice 'fresh' packaged salads you pick up at the supermarket have most likely been chlorinated. It's basically the weakest, most dilute, chlorine wash you could imagine.

Seems people are keen to jump all over it though.

As a relevant aside, don't we have some of the most microbe ridden chicken here in the UK?

TBH, chlorinated chicken will be your smaller issue. You can google to find the proposal from the US and read what else apart from that they want to import into the UK which so far was not possible because of the high EU standards.

Here's one: "Ministers are said to be open to giving access to the controversial US food products, that also include hormone-fed beef and crops treated with 82 different pesticides banned in the EU, but applying tariffs on them to protect UK-based farmers from competition."

Enjoy because 10% or so tariff won't help at all. US agribusinesses are huge corporations that can sustain losses for some time just to increase their market share.

You can als google to find out the difference on how salads and chicken are washed.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I have every confidence in the UK Government to deliver a prosperous Brexit because they've done such a brilliant job with Covid-19.

/checks notes

Oh fuck.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

We're almost into the realms of farce now, check out this headline from today's Daily Express newspaper in the UK.

(Left hand image is from last year, right hand image is from today.)

You may remember Johnson described this deal as 'oven ready' and a 'great deal for Britain', and sold it to the public on that basis. Maybe he didn't actually read it, maybe he didn't understand it, either or both are certainly possible when it comes to a lazy, feckless charlatan such as Johnson.

I posted here at the time that all Johnson had done was roll over and make concessions to the EU, but of course he lied about it to the UK public and went into the election with a pledge to GET BREXIT DONE, waving his OVEN READY DEAL around, and won on that basis.

So this 'unfair' deal is the deal that he personally negotiated and signed on behalf of the entire country, and now he's crying foul.

Reality will be colliding with rhetoric on a depressingly regular basis as this Brexit shitshow rolls on.

 

[geordiecolin]

I take it that your not entirely convinced about Brexit Degsy?

 

[Slottery]

Not closely following this, but it's in news there and then. This week some guy (probably some EU negotiator or at least someone who seem to work with that, can't recall name, sorry) was interviewed and he felt bit frustrated as there's not much progress and need to keep reminding British part that already agreed things are agreed and should be honoured by both parties.

Now in June after all this time and when there still are loads to do, it sounds weird to start to try re-negotiate already agreed things. Pretty much same what in that paper posted by Chopley, "He's not a referee of talks... he's just a player" sums that up quite well and short.

 

[Kroffe]

Not closely following this, but it's in news there and then. This week some guy (probably some EU negotiator or at least someone who seem to work with that, can't recall name, sorry) was interviewed and he felt bit frustrated as there's not much progress and need to keep reminding British part that already agreed things are agreed and should be honoured by both parties.

Now in June after all this time and when there still are loads to do, it sounds weird to start to try re-negotiate already agreed things. Pretty much same what in that paper posted by Chopley, "He's not a referee of talks... he's just a player" sums that up quite well and short.

He probably wants something to blame if/when things go tits up.

"Oh, i tried to fix the deal, its all the gosh darn EU:s fault!!"

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The problem that Johnson and his government have now is that they've burned through a HUGE amount of political capital and goodwill with their shambolic response to Covid-19 and the disgraceful Cummings affair.

The Tories are tanking in the polls as a party, and Johnson's numbers are all heading downhill fast, with Keir Starmer quickly emerging as the adult in the room (and indeed Starmer is polling better than Johnson in many areas already).

Johnson and his government have already lost a huge amount of respect and trust, I honestly don't think the voting public will forgive them for a bad Brexit, and I don't think they're going to be able to blame it on the EU either.

One term government? I think so.

 

[Playford7]

Election 2019: New leader not enough to win again, Labour warned

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No shit Sherlock..
Labour are no longer labour, now just some far far left circus.
Virtue signalling race baiting party of misfits.
The current cabinet is like a who’s who of a comedy sketch.
110% boris will get another term.
If labour stuck to being well, labour you may see a credible challenge.
But in this guise it’s a one horse race for a long time.
and that’s most poor for debate and change and politics on a whole.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Some areas of the press are spinning this one differently, but make no mistake, the Japanese/UK trade deal is very much what the Japanese have offered us, and given us six weeks to say yes or no. There is no room for 'negotiation'.

Japan see the UK for what it is now, a medium sized economic power, that is in decline, that has voluntarily left one of the most powerful trading blocs in the world (the EU).

As this commentator notes, it's basically the EU/Japan trade deal but with the good bits (for us) taken out.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Let's get rid of all that pesky red tape!

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[ChopleyIOM]

A sobering read.

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[goatwack]

Yes, it must be said that political stubbornness and Brexit bravado ought to have been put on hold for a while, instead of the "We will proceed as planned and at any cost" past December slapdashery.

Whilst no doubt great on their political mantelpiece, it is indeed the 'everyman' that loses out and has no real time to make contingency plans. It's more "We're alright Jack" whilst everyone else panics like loons!

Case in point, having to renew one's passport in this 'unique' set of circumstances is no mean feat. With embassies only just reopening their hallowed halls it will indeed be a super fun time playing 'appointment whack-a-mole' just to get things up to speed and not be branded an EU Pariah, before being shipped off in shackles to.....anywhere but here!

So a massive shout-out to Boris & crew for making life exponentially easier for those needing to tie up paperwork and giving us that much-needed extension

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Remember all that stuff about unelected EU bureaucrats meddling in our affairs?

Here is Tory MP Marc Francois threatening the UK's top general that if he doesn't do as he's told, Cummings is going to go down there and 'sort him out'.

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[ChopleyIOM]

Just to demonstrate how the BREXIT MESSAGE has shifted (sunlit uplands, we hold all the cards, a great deal will fall into our laps, German Car Manufacturers etc etc) - we're now at:

Andrea Leadsom - It was made very clear, in 2016, that people would lose their jobs in the event of a no-deal.

I don't personally recall that being on the side of a bus as a campaign slogan.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This would be funny if it weren't so depressingly inevitable.

Ahhhh yes, I remember, it was all Project Fear. Shortly to be come Project Reality.

Click on the Twitter thread below for the full explanation.



--------------------

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Or we could do it this way I suppose.

 

[cncas2123]

Or we could do it this way I suppose.

View attachment 136681
View attachment 136682
View attachment 136683

So what? If you believe in democracy of any type why not just let them get on with it?

 

[goatwack]

Just watching Sophy Ridge - the thinking man's crumpet - grill Michael Gove. The man has an uncanny knack of saying "Uhhm" and "Ahh" a lot, so that's impressive

He also alluded to the Government's 'Mexican Wall' £705Mil investment to keep the E.U riff-raff out! Or protect them from us, it all boils down to perspective doesn't it

Should make for an interesting development in these.....'eventful' times

 

[ChopleyIOM]

More expensive travel insurance, no pet passports, possible roaming charges, red tape for business: the government's website to tell people how to prepare for Brexit sounds like something the Remain campaign wrote in 2016.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

He also alluded to the Government's 'Mexican Wall' £705Mil investment to keep the E.U riff-raff out! Or protect them from us, it all boils down to perspective doesn't it

As some wag put it:

Vote Leave government to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on euphemistic ways of saying 'We Lied'.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Fair play to them for actually trying to polish the turd of 'Everything is about to become more difficult and expensive, and we're spending a fortune on turd polishing'.

 

[dunover]

The real litmus test will be in December - will we still be able to buy pigs-in-blankets?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes because we never had pigs-in-blankets before, so that would definitely be an impressive upside of having left the EU.

 

[goatwack]

The EU Referendum and its many associated tactical slogans seem so very long ago now. A lot of water's passed under the proverbial bridge

Much like nations' early handling of the Covid outbreak, seemingly a lot's been learnt along the way!

And much like in 2016, the Media certainly played their part

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Some food for thought on changes coming on January 1st in any Brexit scenario.

Anyone got a similar graphic with all the good stuff on it?

 

[thr0b]

The EU Referendum and its many associated tactical slogans seem so very long ago now. A lot of water's passed under the proverbial bridge

Much like nations' early handling of the Covid outbreak, seemingly a lot's been learnt along the way!

And much like in 2016, the Media certainly played their part

The problem is, the Brexiteers didn't listen. They put it all down as the catchy phrase "Project Fear". And they were right. The facts SHOULD have been feared. They didn't fear them at all. And now we are FUCKED. Entirely.

 

[thr0b]

Some food for thought on changes coming on January 1st in any Brexit scenario.

Anyone got a similar graphic with all the good stuff on it?

Only this.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The problem is, the Brexiteers didn't listen. They put it all down as the catchy phrase "Project Fear". And they were right. The facts SHOULD have been feared. They didn't fear them at all. And now we are FUCKED. Entirely.

This is the thing, all of what's coming was 100% predicted, it's not a big surprise, it's not the 'EU punishing us', it's the inevitable consequence of a Leave campaign that was based on rhetoric and lies from the start, and decisions such as ruling out membership of a Customs Union.

I mean, crikey, it'll all be documented in this very thread.

And now here we are, staring down the barrel of inflicting gross national vandalism - on ourselves.

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[ChopleyIOM]

A good read here.

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Hope is a powerful thing. Politicians ruthlessly exploit it. And with Brexit, it has been exploited to such a high degree that it has become a political sting. Brexit is the greatest political heist that Britain has ever seen. A gigantic con led by a group of right-wing libertarians who have exploited the hopes of millions of people to convince them that they were taking back control, when in fact, they were giving control away to the people who conned them. So instead of making things better, Brexit will make things a lot worse. Britain will become a place where the hope becomes hopeless.

Many Leave voters feel disenfranchised. They are right to feel that, but they wrongly believe that the EU is to blame. The tragedy of Brexit is that the EU isn’t the source of the problems facing Britain. Instead, decades of UK government failures are the true problem. Failed economic policy, industrial strategy (or lack of), regional regeneration, social policy. All of which have created a society where the rich get richer and our communities and public services pay the price.

------------------

For four decades, millions of people within communities right across the country have seen a decline in their social fabric. The key community frameworks of a happy and stable society have been dismantled, de-funded or sold off. It has made many people unhappy, disenfranchised and, understandably, wanting something or someone to blame.

Sadly, it appears that many people have lost sight of the root cause of who to blame for this decline.

Millions of people have been manipulated by politicians and the media into mistakenly believing that their loss of hope was somehow the fault of the EU and immigrants. This was also wrapped around repetitive jingoistic messages about the pre-EU days of war and British Empire delusion. These messages have been hammered home by the Tories and right-wing media outlets for more than 30 years. Sadly, it has worked. Millions of people think that, because of foreign incomers or interference, they and their country have lost control. But, demonising the likes of the EU and immigrants is psychological projection.

Brussels isn’t to blame. The Romanians aren’t to blame. Jean-Claude Juncker isn’t to blame. The Muslims aren’t to blame. Remainers aren’t to blame. But I know who should be blamed. The ones who wear blue rosettes on election day; who wear bespoke pinstripe suits in Parliament; who have exceedingly good manners and faux politeness and who many people in Britain have a peculiar trait of forelock tugging towards. It is all a giant act of Tory manipulation. See through their veneer and the optics aren’t particularly pleasant. They are the ones that shafted this country. Not a Bulgarian immigrant looking for a better life.

17.4 million people with good intentions were hoodwinked by a bunch of political chancers who conned a nation to enable them to further their careers or feather their own nests (or the pound shorting nests of whatever hedge fund manager chum they happen to have an association with).

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Today's cheerful 'Brexit dividend' read.

It's all feeling a bit gloomy at the moment, so if anyone wants to counter this barrage of bad news with something that Brexit is making better, please do chip in.

Remember folks, the American trade negotiators can see all this, they're going to squash us like an insect.

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Analysts at the Bank of America (BoA) have warned that Brexit is turning the pound into a liquid emerging market currency, rather than a G10 currency.

Since the June 2016 EU referendum, currency analyst Kamal Shah said sterling's exchange rate fluctuations have more closely resembled the Mexican Peso than the US dollar, with its movements becoming "neurotic at best, unfathomable at worst."

"The pound increasingly resembles the more liquid emerging market currencies rather than a core G10 currency," he told the FT.

"We believe sterling is in the process of evolving into a currency that resembles the underlying reality of the British economy: small and shrinking with a growing dual deficit problem similar to more liquid [emerging market] currencies."

 

[slot_zombie]

Misclicked into this thread and it's like browsing the Guardian rag (also banned on my phone). Oops.