Brexit - whats the difference.....

[steveh35]

Well I'm 45 and I'd cut my hand off before putting a cross next to the Tories on a ballot paper.

Maybe I have no brain.

 

[goatwack]

Well I'm 45 and I'd cut my hand off before putting a cross next to the Tories on a ballot paper.

Maybe I have no brain.

That's ok. Put a cross next to Brexit Party instead!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Chop that brexit candidate is not the oracle, nigel hasn't said he thinks we'll be worse off for thirty years, it's not the brexit party's official opinion. For all we know this woman could be a plant to try and damage the brexit cause and will just say stupid things on twitter, she looks like she's just out of nappies, what does she know about economics??

So basically mack, you're actively trying to discredit a Brexit Party candidate as not knowing what she's talking about to try and debunk what she said.

Can you not take a step back from this mack, and look at the insane contortions that Brexiteers are now prepared to go through to try and validate their positions?

Is there no point at which some doubt starts to creep in, and you think, 'Hang on, this might not be the best idea after all'?

What will it take at this point, a sign from God?

It's entering the realms of zealotry, steveh35 said he'd literally be prepared to live jobless in a dirty flat if it meant 'escaping' from the EU and being free, from, erm, something.

 

[steveh35]

So basically mack, you're actively trying to discredit a Brexit Party candidate as not knowing what she's talking about to try and debunk what she said.

Can you not take a step back from this mack, and look at the insane contortions that Brexiteers are now prepared to go through to try and validate their positions?

Is there no point at which some doubt starts to creep in, and you think, 'Hang on, this might not be the best idea after all'?

What will it take at this point, a sign from God?

It's entering the realms of zealotry, steveh35 said he'd literally be prepared to live jobless in a dirty flat if it meant 'escaping' from the EU and being free, from, erm, something.

Indeed I want to be free not locked in the EU prison with Junckers prison guards telling me what light bulbs I can use and how much meat I can eat in case the cows fart too much and cause global catastrophe. I mean even the BBC News has started doing stories about cows farting too much and causing methane the BBC which used to be a serious news broadcaster has now come down to doing stories on cows flatulence to prove their global warming theories

 

[goatwack]

That's nothing. I saw a report fairly recently either on BBC or Sky News (which is as bad if not worse) stating how scientists were planning on re-freezing the ice caps or such like to combat Global Warming.

This is the Balamory phase we're at now people

 

[mack341]

So basically mack, you're actively trying to discredit a Brexit Party candidate as not knowing what she's talking about to try and debunk what she said.

Can you not take a step back from this mack, and look at the insane contortions that Brexiteers are now prepared to go through to try and validate their positions?

Is there no point at which some doubt starts to creep in, and you think, 'Hang on, this might not be the best idea after all'?

What will it take at this point, a sign from God?

It's entering the realms of zealotry, steveh35 said he'd literally be prepared to live jobless in a dirty flat if it meant 'escaping' from the EU and being free, from, erm, something.

It was the same with the ukip party, channel four did a documentary/stitch up, and found some ukip councillors with old fashioned views not acceptable in the politically correct britain, in order to disparage and damage ukip before the referendum. Why would a true brexit candidate say off the top of her head that brexit will make the uk worse off for 30 years??! it's laughable I don't need to do much debunking or insane contortions, it stinks to high heaven

I was looking forward to your reply/viewpoint on the technocracy points made earlier, instead of which the focus now shifts to this unknown woman making a gaffe on purpose by the sounds of it.

 

[steveh35]

That's nothing. I saw a report fairly recently either on BBC or Sky News (which is as bad if not worse) stating how scientists were planning on re-freezing the ice caps or such like to combat Global Warming.

This is the Balamory phase we're at now people

No they are actually and be very frightened, they are planning on freezing the earth's magnetic poles in the name of global warming, now scientists have always been portrayed as nutty but to go messing with the earth's magnetic poles is just lunacy.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It was the same with the ukip party, channel four did a documentary/stitch up, and found some ukip councillors with old fashioned views not acceptable in the politically correct britain, in order to disparage and damage ukip before the referendum. Why would a true brexit candidate say off the top of her head that brexit will make the uk worse off for 30 years??! it's laughable I don't need to do much debunking or insane contortions, it stinks to high heaven

I was looking forward to your reply/viewpoint on the technocracy points made earlier, instead of which the focus now shifts to this unknown woman making a gaffe on purpose by the sounds of it.

According to the actual Brexit Party, she's a star candidate.

(I will reply to your other points as well mack.)

 

[steveh35]

The brexit party are clever enough to have designed a logo which points at the box on the ballot paper where to put the cross, it is very cleverly manipulated and shows they have thought of everything at first I thought the logo was a mistake as it pointed to the EU and thought it should point left but the design is very clever.

 

[mack341]

According to the actual Brexit Party, she's a star candidate.

(I will reply to your other points as well mack.)

View attachment 108987

I just went back and listened to that clip, even the bbc presenter Nicky Campbell couldn't believe it when she said that, it's not even a claim arch remainers have made that'll take 30 years before we sort ourselves out...the lady is an opera singer so I doubt economics is her speciality. looks like she got the nod because she's a well spoken young woman and that ticks the identity politics game box.

edit: it said lucy is our latest star candidate, they're just bigging her up as she's an unknown, it's not easy to find good people that want to become an mep and also face a possible life time of hostility from remainers

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I just went back and listened to that clip, even the bbc presenter Nicky Campbell couldn't believe it when she said that, it's not even a claim arch remainers have made that'll take 30 years before we sort ourselves out...the lady is an opera singer so I doubt economics is her speciality. looks like she got the nod because she's a well spoken young woman and that ticks the identity politics game box.

So the Brexit Party are fielding candidates that literally have no idea what they're talking about, even though they describe that person as a 'star candidate', and are only doing so to cynically exploit identity politics?

Sounds like a great party to vote for.

 

[mack341]

So the Brexit Party are fielding candidates that literally have no idea what they're talking about, even though they describe that person as a 'star candidate', and are only doing so to cynically exploit identity politics?

Sounds like a great party to vote for.

That's the game unfortunately, you've got to have somebody from every background, all the political parties do it. If the brexit party's candidates were 100% old white codgers, even if they were the best candidates available on a qualification/merit basis, they'd be labelled racist and sexist and lose votes.

I said she was either a plant by the establishment or didn't know much about economics, she might know stuff about other parts of brexit, but I find it odd that she was fielded for this interview on a flagship radio show and when she gave that answer even nicky campbell couldn't believe it, he was taken aback, therefore even he a remainer doesn't think it's true.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That's the game unfortunately, you've got to have somebody from every background, all the political parties do it. If the brexit party's candidates were 100% old white codgers, even if they were the best candidates available on a qualification/merit basis, they'd be labelled racist and sexist and lose votes.

I said she was either a plant by the establishment or didn't know much about economics, she might know stuff about other parts of brexit, but I find it odd that she was fielded for this interview on a flagship radio show and when she gave that answer even nicky campbell couldn't believe it, he was taken aback, therefore even he a remainer doesn't think it's true.

I think he was just gobsmacked to see someone from the Brexit Party come out and tell the truth about the economics of Brexit. (Remember, every single economic projection says the UK economy will suffer, the only variable is by how much.)

The angle she was going for was, 'The hardship is worth it', but then categorically told the truth about what that hardship would look like.

TBH I could hardly believe she said it either, because it's a painful, horrible truth that Brexiteers generally avoid like the plague.

(Remember Rees-Mogg let the mask slip as well, when he said that the economic benefits of Brexit might not be felt for fifty years.)

 

[mack341]

I think he was just gobsmacked to see someone from the Brexit Party come out and tell the truth about the economics of Brexit. (Remember, every single economic projection says the UK economy will suffer, the only variable is by how much.)

The angle she was going for was, 'The hardship is worth it', but then categorically told the truth about what that hardship would look like.

TBH I could hardly believe she said it either, because it's a painful, horrible truth that Brexiteers generally avoid like the plague.

(Remember Rees-Mogg let the mask slip as well, when he said that the economic benefits of Brexit might not be felt for fifty years.)

I think the economic benefits will be felt straightaway due to saving 15 billion sterling being sent to the EU, instead that can be spent here or saved to pay off the national debt, nobody knows what the world enomy is going to be like in two years so you can't predict markets etc..we know what remain looks like, it's not great, a lot of money wasted, stretched services, higher crime and homelessness, mountains of rules and laws, an eu army on the horizon and the further surrender of sovereignty...

 

[goatwack]

I believe anyone that thinks they can predict the economy for the next 30-50 years is insane, and should be sectioned forthwith and/ or publicly flogged

 

[dunover]

Indeed I want to be free not locked in the EU prison with Junckers prison guards telling me what light bulbs I can use and how much meat I can eat in case the cows fart too much and cause global catastrophe. I mean even the BBC News has started doing stories about cows farting too much and causing methane the BBC which used to be a serious news broadcaster has now come down to doing stories on cows flatulence to prove their global warming theories

Yep, the EU are planning a tax on wind - how will I afford my 'carbon credits'???

 

[dunover]

That's nothing. I saw a report fairly recently either on BBC or Sky News (which is as bad if not worse) stating how scientists were planning on re-freezing the ice caps or such like to combat Global Warming.

This is the Balamory phase we're at now people

Now when my daughter was little I sat through Balamory numerous times, shocking stuff. A remote Scottish loch community, apparently a hotbed of multiculturalism with the check-box characters. As it was for little kids even the BBC recoiled from a gay character though to go in with all the other gender-Asian-black strereotypes, but we all knew *ahem* what Archie, in pink, was all about.....
Rather uncomfortably, I started having fantasies about Miss Hoolie's 'awakening' lol....

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Why does it all have to be about purely financial motives or self-gain.......many voted for various reasons, including sovereignty. Sorry to sound a bit Third Reich but I am a thicko Brexiteer!

Because a lot of the disdain for people voting Brexit comes from middle class individuals who have a vested financial interest in remaining. The type of people who directly benefit from the fact that there is a continuous cheap supply of labour which helps to keep their wages inflated.

For remainers it's generally ALL about the financial side of things... They fail to realise that for a lot of leavers, it isn't.

 

[ternur]

You literally have no idea what you're talking about

-again

Piss-poor troll attempt, even for you. But note how this discussion is centered and mainly discussed by those involved in its outcome. Not lame-ass trolls from 'Tampere'

Clue is in the "Br"

So are the rest of us not allowed to participate in this discussion? Does is not involve the rest of the EU member states when UK leaves? We are not involved or affected by the outcome of it?

This is a great thread. I'm enjoying it tremendously. Pure comedy gold at times.

But the thread goes beyond the actual Brexit topic. I didn't see that post from @vorcirion as trollish. To me, it was an observation of the deeper issues. Perhaps with somewhat harsher words than I would've used. But still, not a troll post.

 

[goatwack]

So are the rest of us not allowed to participate in this discussion? Does is not involve the rest of the EU member states when UK leaves? We are not involved or affected by the outcome of it?

This is a great thread. I'm enjoying it tremendously. Pure comedy gold at times.

But the thread goes beyond the actual Brexit topic. I didn't see that post from @vorcirion as trollish. To me, it was an observation of the deeper issues. Perhaps with somewhat harsher words than I would've used. But still, not a troll post.

I disagree. He insults and denigrates in every post, mainly as a continuation of his Trump disdain. Hardly effective discussion, but so be it

 

[mack341]

So are the rest of us not allowed to participate in this discussion? Does is not involve the rest of the EU member states when UK leaves? We are not involved or affected by the outcome of it?

This is a great thread. I'm enjoying it tremendously. Pure comedy gold at times.

But the thread goes beyond the actual Brexit topic. I didn't see that post from @vorcirion as trollish. To me, it was an observation of the deeper issues. Perhaps with somewhat harsher words than I would've used. But still, not a troll post.

we have got some deep issues in the uk but membership of the EU is having a worsening effect on them plus it's costing us 15 billion every year, if everyone posted like vorciron there wouldn't be a forum, it's not just trolling but an intent to insult and belittle without ever actually putting forward a reasoned argument.

 

[ternur]

I disagree. He insults and denigrates in every post, mainly as a continuation of his Trump disdain. Hardly effective discussion, but so be it

we have got some deep issues in the uk but membership of the EU is having a worsening effect on them plus it's costing us 15 billion every year, if everyone posted like vorciron there wouldn't be a forum, it's not just trolling but an intent to insult and belittle without ever actually putting forward a reasoned argument.

I disagree.

Some of us non English speakers use language constructions which might not be that eloquent sounding to native speakers ears. And in political discussions there's always a level of built-in dislike of the opposing views. They should not be seen as insulting or a form of denigration. Unless of course if they clearly are.

I understand it's a heated topic, but was it really an intent to insult or belittle? I don't think so.

As for disdain for Trump. Who in their right would not criticize him?

 

[mack341]

I disagree.

Some of us non English speakers use language constructions which might not be that eloquent sounding to native speakers ears. And in political discussions there's always a level of built-in dislike of the opposing views. They should not be seen as insulting or a form of denigration. Unless of course if they clearly are.

I understand it's a heated topic, but was it really an intent to insult or belittle? I don't think so.

As for disdain for Trump. Who in their right would not criticize him?

please could you quote the original 'offending' post alongside our posts

 

[ternur]

please could you quote the original 'offending' post alongside our posts

No.

 

[TheAddict]

I disagree. He insults and denigrates in every post, mainly as a continuation of his Trump disdain. Hardly effective discussion, but so be it

 

[paul7388]

Guess we will find out one way or another if UK is better or worse of after leaving the EU. That is of course if the UK ever does leave

 

[slotplayer]

I disagree. He insults and denigrates in every post, mainly as a continuation of his Trump disdain. Hardly effective discussion, but so be it

I rather enjoy his little outbursts.

 

[slotplayer]

View attachment 108986

I watched Muttley as a kid. Every time something doesn't break the left medias way like the Muller report or the election of The Donald, I can't help think of the Muttley laugh.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

It's not even so much about left and right anymore, it's about neoliberalism (capitalism on steroids) vs pretty much everything else. The thing is, the EU facilitates the increasing disparity between people who have it all and people who have nothing. Behind the veneer you'll see the same power structure as any greedy corporation.

The thing is, neoliberalism has a finite life cycle as the pool of people for the 'haves' to leech off becomes smaller and wealth becomes more concentrated.

 

[mack341]

It's not even so much about left and right anymore, it's about neoliberalism (capitalism on steroids) vs pretty much everything else. The thing is, the EU facilitates the increasing disparity between people who have it all and people who have nothing. Behind the veneer you'll see the same power structure as any greedy corporation.

The thing is, neoliberalism has a finite life cycle as the pool of people for the 'haves' to leech off becomes smaller and wealth becomes more concentrated.

It warms the cockles of my heart to see you mention neoliberalism, tony blair was a big proponent of that and he loves the EU.
do you think the EU is part of the global government plan - a stepping stone to the end of nation state democracies and the mega corporations/billionaires running the world ? [In the true sense of having the power to influence/shape the key decisions]

 

[Playford7]

On a different note.
What’s folks opinions of Carl Benjamin and tommy Robinson running for MEP?.
I think it’s great the elite and the establishment are all looking to smear and run and hide.
I’ll be voting the Brexit party, but the above mentioned two will cause mayhem, and that’s superb.
Tommy Robinson has been demonised from the outset, it’s pretty laughable.
I’m not overly keen on the guy but agree with most of what he says on Islam.
Carl Benjamin is spot on regarding his free speech stance, and I’d also definitely NOT rape Jess Phillips.

 

[mack341]

can anyone believe theresa's latest ploy to get her crud deal passed, offering a vote on a 2nd referendum, her mendacity to the public is off the scale...

 

[goatwack]

The woman's lost her marbles

 

[shadow123]

they are getting closer to what they always wanted, 2nd referendum, whats the point of voting
If we vote to leave again nothing will change, they still wont agree a deal.

 

[paul7388]

they are getting closer to what they always wanted, 2nd referendum, whats the point of voting
If we vote to leave again nothing will change, they still wont agree a deal.

It is just a long running shambles.

But if there is a 2nd referendum i would bet Remain would win as all the people who never bothered voting in last referendum as they thought result was a forgone conclusion would vote 2nd time around.

 

[shadow123]

That woman should hang her head in shame,shes a disgrace

 

[paul7388]

That woman should hang her head in shame,shes a disgrace

Just like that woman in charge up here in Scotland. People are pissed off in England at thought of a 2nd referendum whilst we have to put up with her and her SNP wanting one every year till she gets the result she craves.

 

[shadow123]

cant stand her either

 

[TheAddict]

 

[goatwack]

So if it's another Leave result, say 51% - 49%, do we keep having Referendums until the Remainers get their way? Just curious

 

[pinnit2014]

So if it's another Leave result, say 51% - 49%, do we keep having Referendums until the Remainers get their way? Just curious

I think a referendum a year is reasonable. Two's pushing it. Scotland could fire theirs into the mix, as can the Irish, and we can maybe save on a three for one deal.

 

[irish-ranger]

Just like that woman in charge up here in Scotland. People are pissed off in England at thought of a 2nd referendum whilst we have to put up with her and her SNP wanting one every year till she gets the result she craves.

She's spouting tripe there won't be a second referendum that's what the nationalists want to hear and with the Euro elections coming up there's no better time for her to beating the drums again. .

 

[steveh35]

BIZARRE STORY OF THE WEEK:
It has been proposed by Alex Smith and backed by a cross-party Parliamentary panel on social integration that people who use self service tills in supermarkets should pay 1p tax or charge in order to....fund projects to heal divisions caused by Brexit

The chairman of the panel is none other than remain numpty and change UK MP Chukup Ummuna

It is unclear whether or not Change UK will adopt the proposals as official policy but spokesman Mr Umunna said: 'We all know that Brexit has been incredibly divisive but what we have seen over the course of this inquiry suggests that generational division extends far beyond the realm of politics, into our daily lives.

'This report sets out the beginnings of a framework where local, regional and national government can work together to foster stronger connections between generations.

'Now, more than ever, we need to act to bring our country back together and move forward as one.

 

[TheAddict]

>Bring our Country back together and move forward as one.
>Going back to our roots & forming 1 orderly queue at the main check out.

 

[goatwack]

Communism it is then

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A Leave voting MP is called a traitor, a 'Remoaner', and a snowflake for not being Brexity enough. You can actually see the horror on his face as it slowly dawns on him that these are the sorts of people his populist nonsense bullshit has inspired.

This is what happens when you try to placate the right instead of fight it.

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[Mr_Slot5]

A Leave voting MP is called a traitor, a 'Remoaner', and a snowflake for not being Brexity enough. You can actually see the horror on his face as it slowly dawns on him that these are the sorts of people his populist nonsense bullshit has inspired.

This is what happens when you try to placate the right instead of fight it.

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View attachment 109107

I fail to see what your point is.

I think that lady is the epitome of how a lot of the general public are feeling. Rather than explaining why he voted for May's deal, he tried to brush her off- a sign of how out of touch some of these MPs are.

He was the one coming across as 'precious' in that video. All he had to do was defuse the situation, perhaps explain why it was in her best interests for the WA to go through, instead he told her to get lost in not so many words.

Furthermore, the tweet itself is rather inflammatory and I doubt your assertion of that lady belonging to 'the right' is anywhere near accurate. Brexit is not exclusively a left vs right scenario; though I appreciate it makes it a lot easier for remainers to fight it on that precedent.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I think that lady is the epitome of how a lot of the general public are feeling.

But she doesn't actually say anything of any substance. She basically just rants and abuses him for a few minutes.

My comment about placating the right was in a broader sense, not this individual lady. May trying to appease the headbangers in her own ranks has a lot to answer for as to where we've ended up.

There is a parallel universe where we went for an EFTA deal three years ago, left the EU, and avoided a monstrous culture war.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

But she doesn't actually say anything of any substance. She basically just rants and abuses him for a few minutes.

My comment about placating the right was in a broader sense, not this individual lady. May trying to appease the headbangers in her own ranks has a lot to answer for as to where we've ended up.

There is a parallel universe where we went for an EFTA deal three years ago, left the EU, and avoided a monstrous culture war.

Yes, but the MP hardly said anything of substance either. Some MPs would do well to remember that they are actually public servants. The only differences between the lady and the MP in that video comes in the form of their attire and accent. Ideologically speaking, they were both equally as vacuous.

On your last point- I would have been quite happy with a Norway style agreement.

 

[mack341]

I thought she was pretty cool and switched on that's why the mp got flummoxed and defensive, he voted for may's terrible deal for party political reasons ahead of brexit. I think he was actually a brexiteer, I'm sure I saw a video of him addressing an audience of voters in the local pub or conservative association. obviously a bit of a turn coat though...he has to look down when he says he voted for the 'deal'

edit: watching the whole vid, she did cross the line a bit as it went on, he came back with ' I know about people with big mouths and access to a keyboard' which gave me a chuckle but to be fair to the lady she was there in person not behind a keyboard.