Brexit - whats the difference.....

[pinnit2014]

If there's one person who can really screw up things from nothing, it's Yousaf

And, for that very reason, i'll be out campaigning for him

 

[paul7388]

If there's one person who can really screw up things from nothing, it's Yousaf

And, for that very reason, i'll be out campaigning for him

Have I missed something.

Thought you had jumped on the independence band wagon and were now wanting it.

Not that it matters now as can not see it happening anytime soon.

 

[pinnit2014]

Have I missed something.

Thought you had jumped on the independence band wagon and were now wanting it.

Not that it matters now as can not see it happening anytime soon.

I don't really have any inkling either way. I can see why folk would want it (reasonable leaders North of the Border having to wait until Westminster announces x,y,z before they can set their own budget), but i wouldn't want it in the hands of the type of socialism espoused by the SNP, who's whole policy is basically: regulation and taxation.

 

[Webzcas]

I'll just leave this here

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'll just leave this here

View attachment 180184

Ahhhh yes there will be no fresh food shortages after Brexit, as Michael Gove assured us and Nigel Farage said was Project Fear Mark Two on Steroids.

As ever with these things, Brexit isn't the whole reason, but it's certainly a significant aggravating factor.

In the case of tomatoes, post-Brexit we became massively more dependent on Moroccan tomatoes, and this has worked well in the main up to now, but there have been some problems with harvests in other countries recently, so Morocco has simply diverted a lot of its tomatoes to the EU, which it can sell into far more easily and cheaply than the UK, and therefore far more profitably, and once its produce is inside the EU, it can cross borders with no difficulty whatsoever.

In essence, the UK is now at the back of the queue for produce, so when supply is constrained, we get last dibs on stuff, which is why there is no shortage of fresh produce anywhere in the EU, but here in little old third country UK, we've got major supermarkets RATIONING FUCKING VEGETABLES.

Seriously, when was the last time you can ever remember this happening? And here we are just three years out of the EU (as in completely out, with transition having finished), and we're being told to eat turnips instead of tomatoes.

Also, the UK having the highest energy prices in Europe doesn't help either, we could grow our own produce all year round in glass houses, but electricity is so fucking expensive it's not economically viable for farmers to do so.

Couple of decent threads about it here:

 

[dunover]

Ahhhh yes there will be no fresh food shortages after Brexit, as Michael Gove assured us and Nigel Farage said was Project Fear Mark Two on Steroids.

As ever with these things, Brexit isn't the whole reason, but it's certainly a significant aggravating factor.

In the case of tomatoes, post-Brexit we became massively more dependent on Moroccan tomatoes, and this has worked well in the main up to now, but there have been some problems with harvests in other countries recently, so Morocco has simply diverted a lot of its tomatoes to the EU, which it can sell into far more easily and cheaply than the UK, and therefore far more profitably, and once its produce is inside the EU, it can cross borders with no difficulty whatsoever.

In essence, the UK is now at the back of the queue for produce, so when supply is constrained, we get last dibs on stuff, which is why there is no shortage of fresh produce anywhere in the EU, but here in little old third country UK, we've got major supermarkets RATIONING FUCKING VEGETABLES.

Seriously, when was the last time you can ever remember this happening? And here we are just three years out of the EU (as in completely out, with transition having finished), and we're being told to eat turnips instead of tomatoes.

Also, the UK having the highest energy prices in Europe doesn't help either, we could grow our own produce all year round in glass houses, but electricity is so fucking expensive it's not economically viable for farmers to do so.

Couple of decent threads about it here:

So how do you explain why the shortage is occurring in IRELAND too then, a lucky wonderful EU state?

Maybe it's because the growers in Spain favour their domestic markets first off, the Moroccans the closest markets so when the bad frosts hit and crops are ruined the production goes there....

Do your homework - we actually get a lot of those toms and cucs from HOLLAND where polytunnel production has gone down, yes due to their growers not being able to cover fuel/energy bills with the margins they have...

As usual, your bullshit by omission, copy-and-paste favourable script while ignoring the rest. You should be DG of the BBC mate.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So how do you explain why the shortage is occurring in IRELAND too then, a lucky wonderful EU state?

Maybe it's because the growers in Spain favour their domestic markets first off, the Moroccans the closest markets so when the bad frosts hit and crops are ruined the production goes there....

Do your homework - we actually get a lot of those toms and cucs from HOLLAND where polytunnel production has gone down, yes due to their growers not being able to cover fuel/energy bills with the margins they have...

As usual, your bullshit by omission, copy-and-paste favourable script while ignoring the rest. You should be DG of the BBC mate.

N0tH1nG T0 dO W1tH Br3Xit M8!

 

[dunover]

N0tH1nG T0 dO W1tH Br3Xit M8!

Churlish. Ignored my point about RoI experiencing the same shortages, EU state. Mmm...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Brexit, pictured yesterday, today, tomorrow, and every day from now until infinity.

(For our younger readers, that's Shaggy, whose most famous song was called 'It wasn't me'.)

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And here's James O'Brien destroying the whole Brexit farce in under ten minutes. The lies, the bluster, the broken promises, the huffing and puffing, the profound wrongness about absolutely everything, the circular firing squads of blame, the lashing out at anyone and everyone, anything except looking at itself and realising that it got everything it ever wanted, and it's a big pile of shit - and looking for what it can set on fire next, the next boogeyman.

Y'know, I'd have the utmost respect for any Brexiteer (and they are out there) who would at least have the decency to put their hand up and say, 'Sorry, that was a mistake, we fucked up, I got taken for a ride, what can we do to start to try and fix it?'.

But nope, it's just NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT MATE.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Churlish. Ignored my point about RoI experiencing the same shortages, EU state. Mmm...

I expressly indicated in my post that Brexit isn't the whole reason for the shortages in the UK, but cited it as an aggravating factor, which anyone who knows anything about the situation (far better than me, those pesky 'experts' we're all so fed up with), all seem to agree on.

 

[mack341]

Brexit, pictured yesterday, today, tomorrow, and every day from now until infinity.

(For our younger readers, that's Shaggy, whose most famous song was called 'It wasn't me'.)

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

And here's James O'Brien destroying the whole Brexit farce in under ten minutes. The lies, the bluster, the broken promises, the huffing and puffing, the profound wrongness about absolutely everything, the circular firing squads of blame, the lashing out at anyone and everyone, anything except looking at itself and realising that it got everything it ever wanted, and it's a big pile of shit - and looking for what it can set on fire next, the next boogeyman.

Y'know, I'd have the utmost respect for any Brexiteer (and they are out there) who would at least have the decency to put their hand up and say, 'Sorry, that was a mistake, we fucked up, I got taken for a ride, what can we do to start to try and fix it?'.

But nope, it's just NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT MATE.

It's only remoaners and their friends in the media that keep trying to stir the pot on brexit, no doubt they'll be problems and teething issues that need addressing but at least you can make attempts to do so, you have agency.

EU membership would bring the UK problems that cannot be addressed or fixed, David Cameron once tried to raise the issues with colleagues in brussels and received the middle finger.

Brefings for britain:

The UK has already avoided 7,391 new EU laws
The UK left the EU on 31 January 2021. Since that date a search of the EU’s legal database shows that the EU has enacted 7,391 new laws. [xli] In addition to that there are thousands more pieces of ECJ case law and EU decisions that would all have been binding.[xlii]

I think this part of the EU ploy, tie countries up in so much law they cannot unravel it and so leaving is made much harder, as the EU has changed the actual landscape of how things are done in each country to the EU's way.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It's only remoaners and their friends in the media that keep trying to stir the pot on brexit, no doubt they'll be problems and teething issues that need addressing but at least you can make attempts to do so, you have agency.

EU membership would bring the UK problems that cannot be addressed or fixed, David Cameron once tried to raise the issues with colleagues in brussels and received the middle finger.

Brefings for britain:

The UK has already avoided 7,391 new EU laws
The UK left the EU on 31 January 2021. Since that date a search of the EU’s legal database shows that the EU has enacted 7,391 new laws. [xli] In addition to that there are thousands more pieces of ECJ case law and EU decisions that would all have been binding.[xlii]

I think this part of the EU ploy, tie countries up in so much law they cannot unravel it and so leaving is made much harder, as the EU has changed the actual landscape of how things are done in each country to the EU's way.

7,391 laws eh? I bet you could name at least your top ten of those that you personally find objectionable, just like back on the very first pages of this thread where it was ALL THEM EU LAWS INNIT and then no one can name a single one they can't wait to get rid of.

As for Remoaners stirring the pot, come on mack you're having a laugh, as right this moment the ERG headbangers and DUP along with the rest of the usual suspects are actively involved with debasing the Prime Minister and his plans to try and get the NIP sorted out, whilst Boris Johnson is indeed actively stirring things up again, suggesting he won't support Sunak as Sunak tries to abide by the rules of THE EXACT DEAL THAT JOHNSON HIMSELF SIGNED OFF ON.

How you can look at that scenario and say, 'Bloody Remoaners, always stirring things up' I really don't know.

Also, you've been trotting out the 'teething issues' line for a while now, we're over three years down the line at this point (i.e. fully out including transition), will they still be teething issues after five years, ten years? What's the time limit whereby you might actually concede it's just a big pile of crap that's never going to work.

I know you won't watch the James O'Brien clip I linked above, but it takes him less than ten minutes to demolish the whole edifice of Brexit and the nonsensical lies it was built on.

 

[goatwack]

Much as I find him objectionable at the best of times, I did subject myself to that 10- minute O'Brien excerpt a few hours ago, and felt he made a reasonably compelling argument. I just didn't wanna say

And whilst no doubt steeped in truth, I did find there a little bit of conflating 13 years of Tory rule with the separate entity of Brexit itself. Albeit it has been enacted under Tory stewardship, and gone through various incarnations and 'pass the parcel' leadership changes, of which many of those can't even agree on anything themselves!

Health care, food shortages, and many more travails, no doubt hampered by the cultural phenomenon known as the British European Union Exit, aka Britflee. But I can see that whilst stalled in its current guise, and used as a weapon for Tories to clobber each other with, when not using the NHS for that purpose, once again, I wouldn't put it on such a pedestal in its resultant detrimental effect on our dying public sectors, as someone like James O'Brien might

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Much as I find him objectionable at the best of times, I did subject myself to that 10- minute O'Brien excerpt a few hours ago, and felt he made a reasonably compelling argument. I just didn't wanna say

And whilst no doubt steeped in truth, I did find there a little bit of conflating 13 years of Tory rule with the separate entity of Brexit itself. Albeit it has been enacted under Tory stewardship, and gone through various incarnations and 'pass the parcel' leadership changes, of which many of those can't even agree on anything themselves!

Health care, food shortages, and many more travails, no doubt hampered by the cultural phenomenon known as the British European Union Exit, aka Britflee. But I can see that whilst stalled in its current guise, and used as a weapon for Tories to clobber each other with, when not using the NHS for that purpose, once again, I wouldn't put it on such a pedestal in its resultant detrimental effect on our dying public sectors, as someone like James O'Brien might

Honestly, I'm not always the biggest fan of him myself, his tone and approach can be rather grating sometimes, but I guess if you've been calling out the Brexit lies and nonsense for as long as he has, and to be, let's face it, pretty much completely vindicated on every single count - you're going to come across as a bit of an arrogant cockwomble sometimes.

However, he does often hit the nail on the head, as he does in the clip linked above.

I can see Brexit consuming another Tory PM at this rate, as Sunak, like all those before him, comes up across the immovable object of the die-hard loonies in his party who despite having got everything they've wanted so far, are still unhappy and still want to set fire to more things, convinced that the TRUE BREXIT WINS are just around the next corner. Let's blow up the ECHR! One of Winston Churchill's proudest achievements.....

I think it is fair to roll in the whole thirteen years thing too, because Brexit is definitely part of thirteen years of dysfunctional rule, and in particular the ravages of austerity, which rightly made many people very angry, but they got angry with the wrong thing.

If you get a chance to read it goaty, and you're minded to, I'd really recommend this book, it lays out very clearly how Brexit is inextricably intertwined with the gobsmacking incompetence and corruption of successive Tory governments since 2010. It might actually be quite hard to find a copy at the moment though, as it's sold really well so they're having to do some more print runs.

(It's also very funny too!)

 

[goatwack]

Honestly, I'm not always the biggest fan of him myself, his tone and approach can be rather grating sometimes, but I guess if you've been calling out the Brexit lies and nonsense for as long as he has, and to be, let's face it, pretty much completely vindicated on every single count - you're going to come across as a bit of an arrogant cockwomble sometimes.

However, he does often hit the nail on the head, as he does in the clip linked above.

I can see Brexit consuming another Tory PM at this rate, as Sunak, like all those before him, comes up across the immovable object of the die-hard loonies in his party who despite having got everything they've wanted so far, are still unhappy and still want to set fire to more things, convinced that the TRUE BREXIT WINS are just around the next corner. Let's blow up the ECHR! One of Winston Churchill's proudest achievements.....

I think it is fair to roll in the whole thirteen years thing too, because Brexit is definitely part of thirteen years of dysfunctional rule, and in particular the ravages of austerity, which rightly made many people very angry, but they got angry with the wrong thing.

If you get a chance to read it goaty, and you're minded to, I'd really recommend this book, it lays out very clearly how Brexit is inextricably intertwined with the gobsmacking incompetence and corruption of successive Tory governments since 2010. It might actually be quite hard to find a copy at the moment though, as it's sold really well so they're having to do some more print runs.

(It's also very funny too!)

People call me impulsive - I disagree

Though thanks to your cunning ploy, I didn't hesitate. All in all I'm pretty pleased at having nabbed a copy from my custodians, Amazon.

God damn you Chopley

 

[ChopleyIOM]

People call me impulsive - I disagree

Though thanks to your cunning ploy, I didn't hesitate. All in all I'm pretty pleased at having nabbed a copy from my custodians, Amazon.

God damn you Chopley

View attachment 180246

Hope you enjoy it! It's a highly entertaining but also very informative read. Also, quite hard to argue with as he cites a source for every single claim/assertion that he makes. (Which are all detailed at the back of the book, nearly 150 pages of them!)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Churlish. Ignored my point about RoI experiencing the same shortages, EU state. Mmm...

There's a decently nuanced piece about it here, I know nuance isn't really your thing but give it a go, you might like it! The guy calls out New Labour from their time in office as being very blasé about it all (although admittedly they did have the Single Market to rely on), and also how the Tories have been terrible on UK food security, whilst also taking us out of the Single Market.

Once more (with feeling!), Brexit isn't the whole problem and no one's trying to say it is, but to say it's got nothing to do with it either is dumb ostrich level stuff.

Don't be an ostrich, be a smarty-pants, or at least, an ostrich wearing smarty-pants.

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[ChopleyIOM]

As for the bankers, as I said good luck to them. Now tell me, how has the fact that they are going to get some fat bonuses going to detrimentally effect you or how is it going to detrimentally effect the country?

I explained this with an earlier reply, but here is GARY setting out very clearly why normal people get hurt when the rich get richer and everyone else stands still or gets poorer. (And how, even if you are standing still, you're getting poorer regardless.)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This weekend's Brexit gift is the UK paying half a billion quid to build a detention centre for migrants in France, whilst also being told by France to fuck off when we asked them to replicate some of the Dublin Regulation framework we lost when we stropped out of the EU and lost the legal right to, erm, return migrants to France (or any other EU country).

So what was enshrined as an EU member as a right (that we absolutely did exercise), now costs us hundreds of millions of pounds and doesn't even come close to replacing what we lost.

Brexit in a nutshell.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Decent quick explainer, we're literally just chucking half a billion quid into France's government budget and will get nothing out of it.

 

[mack341]

I think we should've linked this issue to fishing rights and permits, as part of the brexit deal if possible.

Depending on where they build this migrant centre [calais? the french coast] it could send out the wrong signal, more like another magnet.

And why specify 'small boats', so arriving by a big boat is hunky-dory?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I think we should've linked this issue to fishing rights and permits, as part of the brexit deal if possible.

Depending on where they build this migrant centre [calais? the french coast] it could send out the wrong signal, more like another magnet.

And why specify 'small boats', so arriving by a big boat is hunky-dory?

Well this is part of the problem, if you effectively eliminate all official means for seeking asylum (as the Tories have done), other methods will emerge to meet the demand, which has culminated in the explosion of incredibly dangerous channel crossings in small boats. These are people who are risking their lives in incredibly dangerous circumstances to get to the UK, so it'd be far better to do it officially and through a proper process, so that we have oversight of what's going on and who's coming in.

Brexit has made all of this much worse, because we lost the Dublin III Regulations and didn't replace them with anything, which has made the UK more attractive as a destination, as Chris Grey explains.

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[ChopleyIOM]

So it looks almost certain that the Windsor Framework will get through the Commons today, Labour and Lib Dems have both said they'll support it, and the ERG/DUP/etc don't seem to have the numbers to stop it.

This is a good thing, the Windsor Framework is a definite improvement on the NIP and for all the hot air that imbeciles like Redwood and Francois might like to blow about it, it's also got the support of most people in Northern Ireland too.

It was nice to watch Peter Kyle hand Redwood his arse on a plate.

 

[mack341]

Imagine the opposite happening if the country had voted to remain, it is impossible you can't, this is just another establishment stitch-up. At this rate there will have been no point, all brexit will have given us is the freedom to change the colour of passport. Stopping freedom of movement is big but then we still have a massive immigration problem. [The govt have announced another 2 billion to fund accommodation in hotels etc..]

This windsor framework, and the protocol before, are like one of those 'reverse engineer' processes. Still it is nice that when Von der leyen gives a lecture it is not directly to us, though we'll probably end up going in exactly the same direction as the EU on all the bad shit they propose, and just cut out any rare good stuff they may do because it would be a 'burden' on our companies. Plus we save at least £10 billion in membership fee, not to be forgotten in these dire times.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Imagine the opposite happening if the country had voted to remain, it is impossible you can't, this is just another establishment stitch-up. At this rate there will have been no point, all brexit will have given us is the freedom to change the colour of passport. Stopping freedom of movement is big but then we still have a massive immigration problem. [The govt have announced another 2 billion to fund accommodation in hotels etc..]

This windsor framework, and the protocol before, are like one of those 'reverse engineer' processes. Still it is nice that when Von der leyen gives a lecture it is not directly to us, though we'll probably end up going in exactly the same direction as the EU on all the bad shit they propose, and just cut out any rare good stuff they may do because it would be a 'burden' on our companies. Plus we save at least £10 billion in membership fee, not to be forgotten in these dire times.

You're getting so painfully close to the correct answer mack, 'there will have been no point', what opportunity do you think has been missed, what chance was there for it to have been done better that no else could see?

Short of a No Deal Brexit the abomination that Johnson delivered when he GOT BREXT DONE was about the hardest possible option available, so you can't surely be thinking that 'MORE BREXIT' was the answer?

You've got to the correct answer already, there is no point to Brexit, the problems that needed fixing in the UK could never be fixed by leaving the EU, the problems were caused by six years of ruinous and unnecessary Tory austerity (by the time the 2016 referendum was held), and those problems have only got worse since then, because not only could leaving the EU not fix them, they actually made them worse.

The only variable that's left now is how long it takes for the penny to drop that Brexit was a massive con enacted by the rich for the benefit of the rich, who managed to persuade enough of the electorate to vote against their own best interests. The penny has already dropped truth be told, there's a consistent majority amongst the UK population who think that Brexit was a mistake and should be reversed, and that majority is only going to grow over time.

Brexit is the ultimate lose/lose scenario, those who didn't want it (like me!) aren't happy, and those who did want it (like you ) also aren't happy, did anyone get a positive result out of the entire fiasco?