Brexit - whats the difference.....

[pinnit2014]

I just ordered new sunglasses from the UK and I have to pay an extra fee of 15€ for the shipping. Can you guys please come back to the Union? Thank you!

Why u ordering sunglasses from here? Would you not be better with a speciality, like a raincoat?

 

[pinnit2014]

I see from the olympic's medal table we're ahead of the EU states so i'm prepared to chalk this up as another brexit success story

That's because the athletes weren't tempted to buy any junk food with the empty shelves and having to run 100 miles to get apples, in the run up.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Sometimes there's really no need to add anything.

Forman 2016: I want Brexit
Forman 2021: I want compensation for Brexit

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[cncas2123]

Sometimes there's really no need to add anything.

Forman 2016: I want Brexit
Forman 2021: I want compensation for Brexit

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

View attachment 157315

Bit like yourself Chopley, its just a pipedream on his behalf, same as your desire to cancel Brexit...

 

[pinnit2014]

I'm all for anyone brave enough to pull off a bow tie.

 

[dunover]

Why u ordering sunglasses from here? Would you not be better with a speciality, like a raincoat?

He didn't specify though if it was Scotland or England he bought them from. They throw in a nice tartan lining on the wax jackets if you order them from above Hadrian's Wall.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The Road Haulage Association have released the results of their recent survey, as you can see there are indeed many reasons for the current driver shortage, and Brexit is certainly one of top reasons, but not the only reason.

IR35 is a major factor, as is older drivers retiring, both of which interlog mentioned.

The UK leaving the EU appears to have had two major effects, one of which is drivers from the EU who were UK based have simply returned to the EU, there were tens of thousands of them. The other is that it's made what is already a pretty hard job even worse, with all the snarl-ups down in Kent and whatnot, drivers getting stuck in places with no facilities, the general hassle of doing business with the EU now and so on.

So I'm not 'blaming it all on Brexit' but it's inaccurate to say that Brexit is 'fuck all' to do with it, as has been claimed.

 

[mack341]

The Road Haulage Association have released the results of their recent survey, as you can see there are indeed many reasons for the current driver shortage, and Brexit is certainly one of top reasons, but not the only reason.

IR35 is a major factor, as is older drivers retiring, both of which interlog mentioned.

The UK leaving the EU appears to have had two major effects, one of which is drivers from the EU who were UK based have simply returned to the EU, there were tens of thousands of them. The other is that it's made what is already a pretty hard job even worse, with all the snarl-ups down in Kent and whatnot, drivers getting stuck in places with no facilities, the general hassle of doing business with the EU now and so on.

So I'm not 'blaming it all on Brexit' but it's inaccurate to say that Brexit is 'fuck all' to do with it, as has been claimed.

View attachment 157346

Is brexit going to be a long term cause of driver shortage/capacity or will actions and mechanisms come into place to address it? I think it goes into the short term 'teething problems' category and will be resolved, and another side aspect, speculation on my part, is there have been a fair number of stories of foreign driver accidents over the last few years, perhaps the accident stats will improve with more uk based drivers passing uk hgv tests?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

1/ Brexit was UK’s choice
2/ U.K. is now a third country
3/ Third countries do not get same benefits as members
4/ Why is all this so difficult to understand?

I don't know where the failure is greatest TBH. Leave's failure to understand (or wilful ignorance of) the actual consequences of the chosen Brexit path, or Remain in not actually managing to communicate this sort of stuff ahead of the vote.

Then again, any suggestion that any of this stuff would happen was dismissed as Project Fear and apocalyptic doom-mongering.

Anyone travelling now that things are opening up again, be prepared to have a bit of a tawdry time at Customs when heading to EU countries, because you don't just get to walk through the common travel area gates any longer either.

 

[News Hound]

Funnily enough I know someone who works for Tesco. The lack of HGV drivers, which in turn is causing empty shelves, is in the main down to the Pingdemic.

BTW actions such as the one highlighted by that Express article directly above, only further reaffirms why the majority voted leave. I'd wager the majority would be even more convincing if another referendum were held today as a result.

 

[dunover]

1/ Brexit was UK’s choice
2/ U.K. is now a third country
3/ Third countries do not get same benefits as members
4/ Why is all this so difficult to understand?

I don't know where the failure is greatest TBH. Leave's failure to understand (or wilful ignorance of) the actual consequences of the chosen Brexit path, or Remain in not actually managing to communicate this sort of stuff ahead of the vote.

Then again, any suggestion that any of this stuff would happen was dismissed as Project Fear and apocalyptic doom-mongering.

Anyone travelling now that things are opening up again, be prepared to have a bit of a tawdry time at Customs when heading to EU countries, because you don't just get to walk through the common travel area gates any longer either.

View attachment 157403

That just about sums it all up 'PUNISHMENT' specifically designed for the errant UK who had the temerity to leave their corrupt, egotistical and power hungry bureaucracy.

I take it you don't travel in Europe much? Because there were strict checks before we left the EU at exit and entry points into the UK, remember we weren't in Schengen....

There are French controls at Dover etc. and UK controls in Calais, Dunkirk, and rigid ones in Brussels, Amsterdam, Ostend for UK-bound travellers.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That just about sums it all up 'PUNISHMENT' specifically designed for the errant UK who had the temerity to leave their corrupt, egotistical and power hungry bureaucracy.

EU - 'Just so you are aware, if you leave the EU on the terms you're proposing, things X, Y and Z will happen as a result of you choosing to be a third country'
UK - 'Whatever mingers, we're taking back control'
EU - 'OK, but it's entirely your choice, you don't have to leave, we're just letting you know what the result will be'
UK - 'Up yours bitches! Union Jacks at full mast'

SOME TIME LATER - Things X, Y and Z happen

UK - 'WAHHHHH WHY ARE YOU PUNISHING US THIS IS UNFAIR!' /stamps feet

 

[News Hound]

No one is stamping feet anywhere. If anything the EU are shooting themselves in both of theirs

Unfortunately due to the pandemic, not many people are inclined to spend several hours in a metal fuselage cooped up with hundred plus other people breathing recirculated air. However, this latest proposed measure by the EU in charging UK citizens to cross their borders is yet just another example as to why we decided to leave this overbearing organisation.

As each day and week passes, the further the mask worn by the EU slips.....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Unfortunately due to the pandemic, not many people are inclined to spend several hours in a metal fuselage cooped up with hundred plus other people breathing recirculated air. However, this latest proposed measure by the EU in charging UK citizens to cross their borders is yet just another example as to why we decided to leave this overbearing organisation.

The 'latest proposed measure' by the EU is it implementing ETIAS (European Travel Information & Authorisation System), a long running EU project that was originally chaired by a UK MEP (no, really). (It has been in development since 2016, there's a whole website about it here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

)

The ETIAS rules were agreed when the UK was an EU member, we literally helped write these rules and supported them when we were an EU member, and they apply to all third countries.

The UK, having helped to write and implement ETIAS, then voted to leave the EU, so the ETIAS rules now apply to us, just like we wanted them to apply to third countries when we were an EU member.

These are not new rules that the EU is spitefully applying to the UK, they have been in development since 2016, the implementation date was always intended to be 2021/2022, the UK helped to write and ratify them when it was an EU member. We're no longer an EU member, so the rules now apply to us.

As ever when it comes to Brexit, people didn't read the terms and conditions and then call foul when they realise what they are.

In casino terms it's a player depositing £100, claiming a £100 SUB, and then immediately trying to withdraw £200 and complaining when informed that the rules don't work like that. I mean, he did read the terms and conditions before depositing, right?

How anyone can twist the above facts into the EU 'punishing' us is beyond me.

 

[mack341]

They have been in development since uk voted to leave, 2016? that's a nice timely coincidence, considering how many brits visit a european country, rather more than the average 'third country' I call bs, this policy will not have gone through uninfluenced by brexit.

The eu are rancid, rule book obsessed twats, they are pissed at us for escaping, is my conclusion.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

They have been in development since uk voted to leave, 2016? that's a nice timely coincidence, considering how many brits visit a european country, rather more than the average 'third country' I call bs, this policy will not have gone through uninfluenced by brexit.

The eu are rancid, rule book obsessed twats, they are pissed at us for escaping, is my conclusion.

Well that's one way to deal with facts mack - you do you I suppose

I think Leavers underestimate how little of a shit the EU gives about the UK now, we've left, we're just another third country, and when we want stuff we can just get in the queue - no special treatment, no concessions (ironically of course, which we often got when we were in the EU), simply another third country.

And on that note, do you really think the EU were plotting in 2016 to charge Brits £6 under the ETIAS scheme in 2021/2022? Like they haven't got infinitely bigger fish to fry?

Leavers still care far more about the EU than the EU cares about them, considering they were the 'winners' they still seem very unhappy about what has transpired, accusing the EU of 'punishing us' over stuff that was being sorted out five years ago.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

When Johnson and the Tories won the General Election that was it for the EU side, the point of no (short-term) return was crossed – Britain would now definitely be leaving, and with an unreliable and populist Prime Minister armed with a hefty majority, the EU retrenched to defending its side. Rejoin, or indeed even any sort of normalisation of UK-EU relations, was then and still is not even close to viable on the UK side, and will not be at least until Johnson and Frost have left the scene – and possibly not even until the Tories are no longer in power. With that in mind, the European Commission strategy has to be two-fold: to constrain the worst excesses of the UK side, and to shore up support for Ireland and try to make the UK maintain its commitment to what it agreed in the Withdrawal Agreement, Northern Ireland Protocol, and Trade and Cooperation Agreement.

Now that might mean that British pro-EU people might be annoyed. Why, they might ask, is the EU not showing much flexibility regarding Northern Ireland (or indeed regarding a whole host of other issues that have cropped up throughout Brexit – from handling COVID border closures to Britain’s non-participation in Erasmus)?

The answer is that, for the moment, the European Commission correctly sees the UK as a lost case. Correctly sees a problematic state with a land border with the EU with an unreliable government that is a problem to be contained rather than solved. Correctly sees that defending the EU in the eyes of the populations of the 27 EU Member States is more important than even participating in the hot headed discussion in the British Tory-leaning press.

 

[mack341]

Well that's one way to deal with facts mack - you do you I suppose

I think Leavers underestimate how little of a shit the EU gives about the UK now, we've left, we're just another third country, and when we want stuff we can just get in the queue - no special treatment, no concessions (ironically of course, which we often got when we were in the EU), simply another third country.

And on that note, do you really think the EU were plotting in 2016 to charge Brits £6 under the ETIAS scheme in 2021/2022? Like they haven't got infinitely bigger fish to fry?

Leavers still care far more about the EU than the EU cares about them, considering they were the 'winners' they still seem very unhappy about what has transpired, accusing the EU of 'punishing us' over stuff that was being sorted out five years ago.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

When Johnson and the Tories won the General Election that was it for the EU side, the point of no (short-term) return was crossed – Britain would now definitely be leaving, and with an unreliable and populist Prime Minister armed with a hefty majority, the EU retrenched to defending its side. Rejoin, or indeed even any sort of normalisation of UK-EU relations, was then and still is not even close to viable on the UK side, and will not be at least until Johnson and Frost have left the scene – and possibly not even until the Tories are no longer in power. With that in mind, the European Commission strategy has to be two-fold: to constrain the worst excesses of the UK side, and to shore up support for Ireland and try to make the UK maintain its commitment to what it agreed in the Withdrawal Agreement, Northern Ireland Protocol, and Trade and Cooperation Agreement.

Now that might mean that British pro-EU people might be annoyed. Why, they might ask, is the EU not showing much flexibility regarding Northern Ireland (or indeed regarding a whole host of other issues that have cropped up throughout Brexit – from handling COVID border closures to Britain’s non-participation in Erasmus)?

The answer is that, for the moment, the European Commission correctly sees the UK as a lost case. Correctly sees a problematic state with a land border with the EU with an unreliable government that is a problem to be contained rather than solved. Correctly sees that defending the EU in the eyes of the populations of the 27 EU Member States is more important than even participating in the hot headed discussion in the British Tory-leaning press.

Admittedly £6 per person 18-70 every 3 years isn't a huge individual visa fee, but will probably still garner abt 50 million uk pounds each year, whereas eu travellers can come to the uk without paying this charge, half a billion every ten years is a fair bit of money.

It is probably part of a long term strategy, create enough hassle factors, and then call for another vote, a 2nd scottish independence referendum would set a convenient precedent.

Edit: Because the eu are overtly political, especially towards the pc and virtue signalling causes, they probably have a guaranteed 40% of the vote regardless of whether membership is in the broad uk interests, they just have to persuade 11% of the rest, hassle factors and ongoing doom stories in the msm could get them that. Some remainers were even saying the elderly brits dying off will get them a majority required to rejoin, regardless.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just the army being called in to keep people fed in a time of peace.

Brexit is a factor in this, it's not the only reason, and the wider problem has been brewing for years, but the loss of tens of thousands of EU drivers since Brexit is absolutely part of the problem, as is the deterioration in conditions for UK based drivers that are Brexit-related.

 

[SpinUk]

Just the army being called in to keep people fed in a time of peace.

Brexit is a factor in this, it's not the only reason, and the wider problem has been brewing for years, but the loss of tens of thousands of EU drivers since Brexit is absolutely part of the problem, as is the deterioration in conditions for UK based drivers that are Brexit-related.

View attachment 157518

View attachment 157519

More like large multinationals relying on piss-take wages to EU national drivers for 20 years and then not supporting them through the pandemic. Loads of them gone home not surprisingly.

Who would want to train to be a long distance lorry driver for 25k a year? Or work in a warehouse for 10p more than minimum wage? And how do you think those wages were propped up apart from tax payer funded methods like tax credits etc.

Same for the trades, in the 90s a good self employed plumber or electrician would earn the best part of 50/60k even then - this was REALLY common at the time. Post EU immigration this was halved. The UK working classes really bore the brunt of this, something EU apologists love to skip over.

The cheap labour free-for-all ended - as it would - and now the supermarkets have to dig into their hundred million profits to pay proper wages. I really don’t think most working people are losing sleep about that.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

More like large multinationals relying on piss-take wages to EU national drivers for 20 years and then not supporting them through the pandemic. Loads of them gone home not surprisingly.

Who would want to train to be a long distance lorry driver for 25k a year? Or work in a warehouse for 10p more than minimum wage? And how do you think those wages were propped up apart from tax payer funded methods like tax credits etc.

Same for the trades, in the 90s a good self employed plumber or electrician would earn the best part of 50/60k even then - this was REALLY common at the time. Post EU immigration this was halved. The UK working classes really bore the brunt of this, something EU apologists love to skip over.

The cheap labour free-for-all ended - as it would - and now the supermarkets have to dig into their hundred million profits to pay proper wages. I really don’t think most working people are losing sleep about that.

I don't entirely disagree with you, and there's certainly a case to be made for having far more critical workers be UK citizens who are decently compensated for their labour, as opposed to undercutting from abroad and becoming dependent on foreign workers.

The shortage of HGV drivers has been a problem many, many years in the making, and it's a complex issue with multiple factors involved (there's a very good piece in the latest Private Eye about it), however, for the purposes of the current situation the point remains that Brexit is directly implicated as a contributory factor to the current shortage of drivers, and we're now on the brink of having the actual army get involved to keep store shelves stocked. (Something that no EU countries are staring down the barrel of, despite having had Covid and all the rest of it to deal with.)

It's entirely legitimate to look at medium and long term solutions to fix this problem, and indeed to consider how we got here, but the short term issue is specifically what I'm interested in here, and once again, Brexit has its grubby fingers all over it.

 

[pocoman]

Photoshopped army m8. You lost. Get over it.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Telegraph nailing it as usual.



Oh well.

 

[dunover]

Telegraph nailing it as usual.

View attachment 157539

Oh well.

View attachment 157540

Yes, a marketing ploy to stop existing customers leaving to other networks.

Any why the need to take the fucking thing on holiday with you anyway, I thought the idea of holiday was to destress and declutter the mind, not sit pissing about on your twatting phone for 2 weeks!!??

If anyone goes for a fortnight abroad and sits on the beach or in their hotel on Tw@tter, Faecebook, Sick Cock, Instaspam or Faceslime then they should get a life, as the best they deserve is a wet weekend in a mobile home park in Douglas or Scarborough.

 

[interlog]

More like large multinationals relying on piss-take wages to EU national drivers for 20 years and then not supporting them through the pandemic. Loads of them gone home not surprisingly.

Who would want to train to be a long distance lorry driver for 25k a year? Or work in a warehouse for 10p more than minimum wage? And how do you think those wages were propped up apart from tax payer funded methods like tax credits etc.

Same for the trades, in the 90s a good self employed plumber or electrician would earn the best part of 50/60k even then - this was REALLY common at the time. Post EU immigration this was halved. The UK working classes really bore the brunt of this, something EU apologists love to skip over.

The cheap labour free-for-all ended - as it would - and now the supermarkets have to dig into their hundred million profits to pay proper wages. I really don’t think most working people are losing sleep about that.

£25k a year for a LGV driver. Double that what we pay our drivers per year basic. Admittedly, there are Companies that do pay £25k a year for a LGV driver, and they are the ones that are now suffering more than those that have paid decent wages and continue to do so.

The "pingdemic" is not helping matters at the moment. As I said before, it certainly is an employees market out there for LGV drivers.

Haven't seen any army uniforms in our place at yet. During the war........

 

[ChopleyIOM]

'Emergency' Brexit powers for lorry management in Kent are quietly made permanent.

Guess Brexit is the 'emergency' that keeps on trucking, or not, as the case may be.

There are going to be a lot of very pissed off people in Kent, as this has already been a huge bone of contention for them.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Naomi Smith, the chief executive of the internationalist campaign group Best for Britain, said: “This is an admission that far from ‘teething problems’, the government expects supply problems from their rushed Brexit deal to continue indefinitely.

“Shelves are empty and our supply chains are already at breaking point. The government should be seeking improvements to their deal with

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

rather than preparing to make Kent a permanent lorry park.”