Beware of EnglishHarbour Group (OddsOn software)!!!

[mark10]

BEWARE OF ENGLISH HARBOUR GROUP (OddsOn software)!!!
THEY JUST DON'T PAY WINNINGS!!!

I played in four OddsOn casinos and had good winnings (in total US$974), but ***none of them has paid me***. They were englishharbour.com, caribbeangold.com, aposte.com, bleublancrouge.com. Here is (I quote from email from CaribbeanGold) how they have justified non-payment:

"A security flag that has been raised in our master database due to information you have provided therefore you will not be entitled to your winnings."

I have assured them there is nothing wrong with "information I have provided" and I am happy to send them a copy of my passport, proofs of address, etc. But they do not reply to my emails.

They give 100% bonuses. But I think they compensate for it by non-payments if anyone happens to be a bit more lucky than average. My questions of what they mean by "security flags" have remained unanswered. But I understand it perfectly: it is just a deliberately vague and meaningless excuse for non-payment.

 

[jetset]

Mark10, whilst I can understand your frustration may I recommend that before you start trashing the English Harbour group (which has a reasonably clean history) you try and escalate this to management, which has both more sense and discretion than CSRs or lowly "Security" people.

On the face of it your complaint indicates bad casino practice, because you are entitled to a far better explanation than you have been given in the email from EH Security, and you should have a chance to defend yourself.

But please - try talking to management before you resort to other measures such as mediation, licensing jurisdiction reports and message board trashing.

 

[amandajm]

The guy said they don't answer emails.

I hate that.

Maybe Bryan can help if you use the pitch a bitch section on the site.

It is part of the service he offers here.

Good luck.

 

[jamesdean]

Wow, this isnt what I'd expect from this group, they typically are one of the best casino groups out there. Hopefully they will take a look at this thread and help you out soon. It is unfortunate to see such quality casinos starting to offer such poor service.

 

[mark10]

Jetset,
How do you propose to escalate it to the management? I have been writing emails, offered faxing my ids, but they just do not reply. Do you mean to phone them and ask for the manager? Would they put me through? You know how places like this tend to put you in telephone queue and make you listen to music for an hour while you pay high international rates. The point is they do not reply to emails. Do you know a special email address straight to the manager of English Harbour?

 

[tim5ny]

Same here Jamesdean. I don,t play at their casinos, but I,ve always heard that they had a good reputation. Mark10.... it seems like they would have given you more of an explanation than something so vague as "security flags went up!" It,s not like you won enough to put a dent in their funds. There must be more to it.

 

[jetset]

Have you tried the telephone?

Try it.

Only when you have been unable to escalate it yourself should you seek the assistance of someone who can intervene with other contacts - that's the way these things are best handled, and half the time if you make a determined effort you will resolve the issue yourself.

If you have no success get back on here and I will try and assist you.

 

[italiano]

"A security flag that has been raised in our master database due to information you have provided therefore you will not be entitled to your winnings"

Maybe they think you have muliple accounts.

BTW, it could just be an excuse as you obviously hustled them. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't pay though.

 

[mark10]

italiano, I have five accounts with the group, but only one in each casino. I thought it was OK. When you close some of their casino websites a pop up inviting you to another casino comes up. But they probably consider me a bonus abuser: I claimed bonuses from five of their casinos and I did it all in one day. It seems a sufficient reason for them not to pay. I admit it: I did five of their casinos in one day, as I was tempted by the bonuses. But I played well above the wagering requirements (about 30% more in each). I got a private email from someone saying: "Why would you play at another casino within its group if 1 of them failed to pay you?Sounds a bit suss to me!". Well, here's the answer: I did them all in one day, collecting five bonuses in one day. Stupid of me? Probably. But I thought they were the reputable group, which would surely pay. I played high bets. I took risks, I could have lost it all. The lesson for all: wait until one casino pays you before you play in another of the same group! Or, better, never play in online casinos! If you really like it that much, risk only small amounts. Always bear in mind the possibility of non-payment, if they don't like you for some reason e.g. you claimed more than one bonus from the same casino group, or you just happened to be luckier than average!

 

[mark10]

jetset, OK, I promise to follow your advice, not to go sleep until midnight today (I am in Australia), and telephone EnglishHarbour after midnight, and ask for the manager, and complain about non payment of nearly a $1000 US. I will let you know of the result tomorrow (and how long they held me on the phone from Australia).

 

[kidgamer]

"I claimed bonuses from five of their casinos and I did it all in one day".

Mark10,
No offense, but your a moron.

You are a bonus abuser, dude, plain and simple.
Claiming 5 bonuses from the same casino group all on the same day was beyond stupid, it was idiotic. Of course your going to raise a red flag by casino security doing something lke this.
Where is your common sense?

However, this being said, English Harbour has no right to keep your money. Your foolishness should cost you your winnings, but not your deposits. Your initial investment at each casino should be immediately returned.

Good luck with that

 

[glodge]

kidgamer,

Spot on with that comment.

EH ( the casino , not the car ) should refund your deposits.

 

[tim5ny]

Almost every problem I read about non-payment of winnings has something to do with stipulations about a bonus. I guess the man who once said that "There,s no such thing as a free lunch!" was right. It sounds like free money in your pocket..... but there,s so many strings attached that bonuses are nothing but a pain in the balls!

 

[jpm]

I disagree with you kidgamer. If Mark is offered signup bonuses by this group, and complied with the wagering requirements & rules in each, then he is entitled to every penny that is owed to him. He did not abuse anything, since by his own admission he wagered 30% above & beyond the requirements. Most places define a bonus abuser as someone who wagers the minimum, up to the wager requirement, then cashes out. Not the case here.

If they don't want someone claiming their signup bonuses in all 5 casinos, then DON'T OFFER THEM! Don't put popups with bonus offers for your other casinos on each one's home page. Put in a stipulation (as some casinos do presently) that says if you received a signup bonus in any other casino in our group, then you can't have one here. But IMHO, Mark did absolutely nothing wrong here by claiming what was offered to him, and assuming he complied with all the rules, he MUST be payed, then they can ban him (but they still owe him his winnings).

 

[jpm]

btw, its spelled "you're" not "your" when telling someone "you're a moron", otherwise it makes no sense and is even somewhat ironic!

 

[cipher]

If Mark is a "moron" then what are these casinos that continually pop-up these bonus adds before a person has even signed-out of the first casino?

I'm seeing this exact same thing happen with the PLAYTECH line of casinos on a daily basis.

I don't care and it shouldn't make any difference to anyone if Mark clocks 20 casinos in a day.

I might add that it is most refreshing to see that someone is obviously able to use their head in these bonus matters.

If these Casinos are going to persist in making these wild-ass bonus offers they should be forced to pay.

Cipher

 

[glodge]

All to often we hear the casino's calling players bonus abusers. However IMO if Mark or anyone else is offered these bonuses & accepts them, the casino/s should pay up.

The industry is well aware of " bonus abuse ", however I find it strange that none of the casino's, have employed any advance technology in preventing multi bonus mail outs to players from their sister casino's.

Seems to me that that a lot of casino's use the coined phrase " bonus abuser ". Is it in their eyes a justifiable way of not paying out a player?

IMO if you don't take the bonus, casino's these days will find another way of screwing you over.
You'd think with all the US congress stuff, the industry would be trying its darndest to not f#ck up. Unfortunately it seems the complete oposite.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

(Message edited by glodge on July 14, 2003)

 

[maxmax]

I too had my winnings stolen. They had a 10% paypal bonus and i finished in excess of the wagering and cashed out with 12,698 on a 10,000 deposit. They stole my winnings and returned my deposit. They gave me the same BS of security flags since alot of other big deposits came in that day/week/month. I can see why however because it was a big promotion.

 

[mark10]

I have one more thing to clarify: I did not exactly "claim" these 5 bonuses. They were automatically added to my bankroll on deposit.

Anyway, I telephoned English Harbour group and spoke to the supervisor. He did not say anything about bonus abuse but raised the following two problems:
(1) I shared Neteller account with a friend. They have contacted Neteller. It looks like Neteller discloses to them all the transactions, even the ones with other casino groups. So, those of you who are sensitive about privacy: don't use Neteller - they make your account history public. I guess the banks have more respect for people's privacy.
(2) They did not like my telephone area code. They thought that everybody in New South Wales, Australia has area code 02. It is true in most places, but Tweed Heads is an exception (it lies in New South Wales, on the border with Queensland, and has Queensland telephone area codes).
Anyway, the manager agreed to reconsider paying me the winnings (I had to fax my Drivers Licence and Utility Bill).
By the way, the original deposits have been already refunded (in all four casinos; in the fifth one it was not because I lost the lot).

 

[thesmacker]

The way in which these casinos find it their right to withhold money from people with little to no proof of problems is absolutely sickening. The online casino industry is so worried about getting ripped of by fraud that they blind themselves to the fact that the house wins regardless. If they dont wish people to take advantage of promotions then they shouldnt offer them. Im so sick of reading thread after thread of complaints about supposedly reputable casinos. Odds on and FL being the leading 2 candidates. Its getting to the point where online gambling is not worth the time because of moron casino managers being so paranoid that every player that enters their casino is fraudulent.

 

[cipher]

Mark10, The information that you posted earlier today with regards Neteller is mind boggling.

I'd like to clarify a couple of the issues from your earlier post.

1) Do you know for fact that Neteller has provided information relative and pertinent to your account or shared account to ANY OF THE (4) OTHER CASINOS THAT ARE RELEVENT TO THIS THREAD?

2) If yes, how do you know this?

3) Quote "they make your account history public." Who is "they" Neteller or the Casinos?

Have a good one.
Cipher

 

[jetset]

You beat me to the draw there Cipher - these are very pertinent questions after Mark10's allegations here, and he should answer them.

Mark10 did you ask the Supervisor why they have been igonoring your emails? What did he say?

Please keep us posted here on the outcome once EH management gets back to you.

 

[mark10]

cipher, I know for a fact that Neteller has provided the English Group with the list of my transactions. A supervisor in English Harbour group told me so.

You ask: "they make your account history public." Who is "they" Neteller or the Casinos?

"They" is neteller. I said "public", which of course, is an exageration. But they certainly have disclosed the list of my transactions to English Harbour group. And English Harbour group could see a transaction in another casino for another person's account, and this is the primary cause of non-payment.

jetset, no I haven't asked the manager "why", I just told him that emails were not answered, but he did not comment on it.

 

[cipher]

At this point in time Mark 10 I don't think I'd be placing a lot of confidence in anything that any of these 4 or 5 casinos are telling you.

Secondly, the only way English Harbour would be able to see a Neteller transaction in another casino for another person's account is to be engaged in collusion with English Harbour and I've got to tell you that Neteller has far too much to lose by any such activity.

Lastly, Jetset's question as to why they (English Harbour) has been ignoring your emails needs to be answered. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[maxmax]

Neteller gives out your name, billing address, phone # and everything else. Most likely Mark used his friends or families account (doubtfully family because EH would probably let the same Last name slide).

So they flagged him as being a stranger who probably hacked someones account

 

[jpm]

Mark, was your friend's transaction in the other casino in the EH group of casinos?? I wouldn't have a problem with that if that were the case, since its all the same organization.

My confusion would be how he was able to use your neteller account on his casino account. I thought the email address of the casino account holder had to match the email address of the neteller account holder. And why would you do this anyway?? This doesn't make sense to me, and if I were the casino, I would think something funny was going on.

 

[linda7]

Hi everyone,
Sorry if I am off topic here, but I have a question regarding Neteller. How am I supposed to open an account with them, if they require your SSN now? I know to never give out my Social Security number, and if you put in the wrong number just to supply them with 10 digits, they nail you on the spot. They are a canadian based company, so how is it that inside of 10 seconds they know if you supplied the right number or not.
I dont trust Neteller, they must have a connection with the SS bureau in order to know whether you give them the correct number, therefore, I dont doubt that they would happily give your info to any and all who ask for it.

Can anyone explain how they know if the SSN you supply them with is yours? I tried opening an account, mixed up my social numbers, and the account was disabled immediately.

 

[murder1]

Linda I am in agreement with 100% of your posts. I quit fugging with Neteller and went to FirePay. I just make one big deposit ($1000) into my Firepay account +$1.50 fee and I am through with it! I don't have to give them my SS#. Every Online Casino I've Played At So Far Accepts Firepay.

Damn I miss Paypal!

 

[cipher]

Hi Linda;

I have no problem providing Neteller with my Social Security number and/or even credit card and checking account numbers.

The main difference between Neteller and the casinos is the fact that Neteller is very collectible in the event that were to do something untoward with your financial information.

With most Casinos the player generally doesn't really even have a clue as to whether or not a Casino has enough cash on hand to cover even
a $100 wager. Conversely, a Player has even less of a idea as to whether a casino is collectible if in the event they (the Casino) were to do something untoward with your financial info.

Lastly, Neteller is able to verify your Social Security number within seconds by accessing one of the credit bureaus such as Equifax or Trans Union. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[jetset]

I have advised Neteller about this thread. Let's see what they have to say.

 

[jpm]

Linda, I don't trust firepay as far as I can throw them, but I do trust neteller. I've had problems with firepay before with some casinos where I could never get a firepay purchase accepted. Never had that problem with neteller. And neteller processes cashins MUCH faster than firepay, both from the casino and to my bank account.

Also, firepay is now adding on all these fees, even to withdraw, which really ticks me off, so I've cleared out all my funds from there and I am going to close it asap.

 

[glodge]

linda7,

In the old days of the internet, before real time processing, the algorithm of a Credit Card was tested by a CC checking program, before the purchases details were accepted.

A program such as this could determine if the credit card numbers were of the correct algorithm pertaining to the CC type. Part of the number configuration would also indicate what country the CC was issued to.

I would supsect that the SSN algorithm, may hold your states ID within its number configuration.

Therefore juggling the numbers around, would cause an error flag.

Maybe Neteller simply runs everyone's SSN through a simular checking program.

IMO I doubt that Neteller would be in cahoots with any US Government Dept.

(Message edited by glodge on July 16, 2003)

 

[jpm]

Actually, the first 3 digits of your SS# do indicate the state you were born in, however, it doesn't indicate where you live currently. And unlike CC numbers, there is no check digit in them.

Someone said (Linda I think?) that they gave neteller their (deceased) father's SS# as their own and neteller came back and said it wasn't their # and told them their father's name, etc. I'd still like to know what database they are into that is giving them this info. I suspect maybe its the Chex system that banks are now using check you out when you open a new account. Too much info at their fingertips if you ask me!

 

[glodge]

jpm,

"Too much info at their fingertips if you ask me!"

Yep.

Life is starting to be to much like 1984 - George Orwell.

 

[linda7]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your input regarding neteller and their demand for SSN. Yes, JPM you are absolutely correct. The first time they asked for my SSN I gave them my SSN, but I mixed up the last 4 digits. The second time, I gave them my deceased Dad's SSN. They knew everything about my dad. His name, home address (even tho he is deceased, my mom still has the house) phone number, birthdate, etc. It was scary. Yes, I agree they do have too much info at their fingertips. I am so reluctant to give them my SSN, that I really do not know what to do. I have been using PrePaidATM. However, playtech sites will not accept PPA (even tho their websites say they do). I asked them why, and they said PPATM has been flagged as a funding site for gambling. This is getting ridiculous.
As for firepay, a friend of mine was either double or triple charged by them, so she had to dispute the charges, and now she is unable to play at any casinos that use ProcCyber. Needless to say, I dont know whether to scratch my watch or wind my butt...lol.

 

[spearmaster]

JPM is probably right - it's likely to be ChexSystems who are behind the database. And yes, the first three digits definitely indicate the state of birth - but what shocked the crap out of me is that the last 6 digits in my case - by sheer coincidence - were year(2) year(2) day(1) month(1) - my birthdate!

Needless to say I had no trouble memorizing my SSN... LMAO...

 

[jpm]

What a weird coincidence that is spearmaster! Though now that I think about it, the last 2 digits of my SS# are the same as the last 2 digits of my birth year. Certainly much less a coincidence than having your whole d.o.b. as the last 6 digits though.


(Message edited by jpm on July 16, 2003)

 

[murder1]

I never had a problem with Firepay. I have had a problem with ProcCyber taking money from my credit card in small amounts like $1.14 $1.25, etc. The Safest and Best way to go Linda is to open a bank account and get a VISA Debt Card take subtracts from you bank account. As far as Firepay all my credit appears right there whenever I deposit are when i expect a payout. All are risky, none are for certain. But Linda don't ever compromise your privacy for this National Data Base that they are setting up. If the people only knew what is about to happen to them and this collection of personal data.

 

[mark10]

As we are discussing Social Security Numbers here I have a question (anybody knows)? Can I open a US bank account without being a US resident and without having social security number? I live in Australia, I have dual citizenship and two passports: Polish & Australian. If I go to Hawaii for 2 weeks holidays do you thnk I will be allowed to open a US account there? Not having US bank account makes certain things impossible e.g. Firepay. Besides, rip-off exchange rates (banks call it retail exchange rates, same thing!) are a problem with every transaction.

 

[glodge]

mark10,

If you've got a lazy $100,000US laying around you can get an account at the Royal Bank of Canada.

Outdated URL (Invalid)

 

[jpm]

mark10, I am pretty sure you can't open a US bank account without a SS#. That is one thing they always require when opening an accont here. Though there must be some way to do it for people who are working here with a green card for instance.

Goto

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and try going to the link to open a checking account and see how far it will let you go.