Beware of EnglishHarbour Group (OddsOn software)!!!

[mark10]

BEWARE OF ENGLISH HARBOUR GROUP (OddsOn software)!!!
THEY JUST DON'T PAY WINNINGS!!!

I played in four OddsOn casinos and had good winnings (in total US$974), but ***none of them has paid me***. They were englishharbour.com, caribbeangold.com, aposte.com, bleublancrouge.com. Here is (I quote from email from CaribbeanGold) how they have justified non-payment:

"A security flag that has been raised in our master database due to information you have provided therefore you will not be entitled to your winnings."

I have assured them there is nothing wrong with "information I have provided" and I am happy to send them a copy of my passport, proofs of address, etc. But they do not reply to my emails.

They give 100% bonuses. But I think they compensate for it by non-payments if anyone happens to be a bit more lucky than average. My questions of what they mean by "security flags" have remained unanswered. But I understand it perfectly: it is just a deliberately vague and meaningless excuse for non-payment.

 

[jetset]

Mark10, whilst I can understand your frustration may I recommend that before you start trashing the English Harbour group (which has a reasonably clean history) you try and escalate this to management, which has both more sense and discretion than CSRs or lowly "Security" people.

On the face of it your complaint indicates bad casino practice, because you are entitled to a far better explanation than you have been given in the email from EH Security, and you should have a chance to defend yourself.

But please - try talking to management before you resort to other measures such as mediation, licensing jurisdiction reports and message board trashing.

 

[amandajm]

The guy said they don't answer emails.

I hate that.

Maybe Bryan can help if you use the pitch a bitch section on the site.

It is part of the service he offers here.

Good luck.

 

[jamesdean]

Wow, this isnt what I'd expect from this group, they typically are one of the best casino groups out there. Hopefully they will take a look at this thread and help you out soon. It is unfortunate to see such quality casinos starting to offer such poor service.

 

[mark10]

Jetset,
How do you propose to escalate it to the management? I have been writing emails, offered faxing my ids, but they just do not reply. Do you mean to phone them and ask for the manager? Would they put me through? You know how places like this tend to put you in telephone queue and make you listen to music for an hour while you pay high international rates. The point is they do not reply to emails. Do you know a special email address straight to the manager of English Harbour?

 

[tim5ny]

Same here Jamesdean. I don,t play at their casinos, but I,ve always heard that they had a good reputation. Mark10.... it seems like they would have given you more of an explanation than something so vague as "security flags went up!" It,s not like you won enough to put a dent in their funds. There must be more to it.

 

[jetset]

Have you tried the telephone?

Try it.

Only when you have been unable to escalate it yourself should you seek the assistance of someone who can intervene with other contacts - that's the way these things are best handled, and half the time if you make a determined effort you will resolve the issue yourself.

If you have no success get back on here and I will try and assist you.

 

[italiano]

"A security flag that has been raised in our master database due to information you have provided therefore you will not be entitled to your winnings"

Maybe they think you have muliple accounts.

BTW, it could just be an excuse as you obviously hustled them. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't pay though.

 

[mark10]

italiano, I have five accounts with the group, but only one in each casino. I thought it was OK. When you close some of their casino websites a pop up inviting you to another casino comes up. But they probably consider me a bonus abuser: I claimed bonuses from five of their casinos and I did it all in one day. It seems a sufficient reason for them not to pay. I admit it: I did five of their casinos in one day, as I was tempted by the bonuses. But I played well above the wagering requirements (about 30% more in each). I got a private email from someone saying: "Why would you play at another casino within its group if 1 of them failed to pay you?Sounds a bit suss to me!". Well, here's the answer: I did them all in one day, collecting five bonuses in one day. Stupid of me? Probably. But I thought they were the reputable group, which would surely pay. I played high bets. I took risks, I could have lost it all. The lesson for all: wait until one casino pays you before you play in another of the same group! Or, better, never play in online casinos! If you really like it that much, risk only small amounts. Always bear in mind the possibility of non-payment, if they don't like you for some reason e.g. you claimed more than one bonus from the same casino group, or you just happened to be luckier than average!

 

[mark10]

jetset, OK, I promise to follow your advice, not to go sleep until midnight today (I am in Australia), and telephone EnglishHarbour after midnight, and ask for the manager, and complain about non payment of nearly a $1000 US. I will let you know of the result tomorrow (and how long they held me on the phone from Australia).

 

[kidgamer]

"I claimed bonuses from five of their casinos and I did it all in one day".

Mark10,
No offense, but your a moron.

You are a bonus abuser, dude, plain and simple.
Claiming 5 bonuses from the same casino group all on the same day was beyond stupid, it was idiotic. Of course your going to raise a red flag by casino security doing something lke this.
Where is your common sense?

However, this being said, English Harbour has no right to keep your money. Your foolishness should cost you your winnings, but not your deposits. Your initial investment at each casino should be immediately returned.

Good luck with that

 

[glodge]

kidgamer,

Spot on with that comment.

EH ( the casino , not the car ) should refund your deposits.

 

[tim5ny]

Almost every problem I read about non-payment of winnings has something to do with stipulations about a bonus. I guess the man who once said that "There,s no such thing as a free lunch!" was right. It sounds like free money in your pocket..... but there,s so many strings attached that bonuses are nothing but a pain in the balls!

 

[jpm]

I disagree with you kidgamer. If Mark is offered signup bonuses by this group, and complied with the wagering requirements & rules in each, then he is entitled to every penny that is owed to him. He did not abuse anything, since by his own admission he wagered 30% above & beyond the requirements. Most places define a bonus abuser as someone who wagers the minimum, up to the wager requirement, then cashes out. Not the case here.

If they don't want someone claiming their signup bonuses in all 5 casinos, then DON'T OFFER THEM! Don't put popups with bonus offers for your other casinos on each one's home page. Put in a stipulation (as some casinos do presently) that says if you received a signup bonus in any other casino in our group, then you can't have one here. But IMHO, Mark did absolutely nothing wrong here by claiming what was offered to him, and assuming he complied with all the rules, he MUST be payed, then they can ban him (but they still owe him his winnings).

 

[jpm]

btw, its spelled "you're" not "your" when telling someone "you're a moron", otherwise it makes no sense and is even somewhat ironic!

 

[cipher]

If Mark is a "moron" then what are these casinos that continually pop-up these bonus adds before a person has even signed-out of the first casino?

I'm seeing this exact same thing happen with the PLAYTECH line of casinos on a daily basis.

I don't care and it shouldn't make any difference to anyone if Mark clocks 20 casinos in a day.

I might add that it is most refreshing to see that someone is obviously able to use their head in these bonus matters.

If these Casinos are going to persist in making these wild-ass bonus offers they should be forced to pay.

Cipher

 

[glodge]

All to often we hear the casino's calling players bonus abusers. However IMO if Mark or anyone else is offered these bonuses & accepts them, the casino/s should pay up.

The industry is well aware of " bonus abuse ", however I find it strange that none of the casino's, have employed any advance technology in preventing multi bonus mail outs to players from their sister casino's.

Seems to me that that a lot of casino's use the coined phrase " bonus abuser ". Is it in their eyes a justifiable way of not paying out a player?

IMO if you don't take the bonus, casino's these days will find another way of screwing you over.
You'd think with all the US congress stuff, the industry would be trying its darndest to not f#ck up. Unfortunately it seems the complete oposite.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

(Message edited by glodge on July 14, 2003)

 

[maxmax]

I too had my winnings stolen. They had a 10% paypal bonus and i finished in excess of the wagering and cashed out with 12,698 on a 10,000 deposit. They stole my winnings and returned my deposit. They gave me the same BS of security flags since alot of other big deposits came in that day/week/month. I can see why however because it was a big promotion.

 

[mark10]

I have one more thing to clarify: I did not exactly "claim" these 5 bonuses. They were automatically added to my bankroll on deposit.

Anyway, I telephoned English Harbour group and spoke to the supervisor. He did not say anything about bonus abuse but raised the following two problems:
(1) I shared Neteller account with a friend. They have contacted Neteller. It looks like Neteller discloses to them all the transactions, even the ones with other casino groups. So, those of you who are sensitive about privacy: don't use Neteller - they make your account history public. I guess the banks have more respect for people's privacy.
(2) They did not like my telephone area code. They thought that everybody in New South Wales, Australia has area code 02. It is true in most places, but Tweed Heads is an exception (it lies in New South Wales, on the border with Queensland, and has Queensland telephone area codes).
Anyway, the manager agreed to reconsider paying me the winnings (I had to fax my Drivers Licence and Utility Bill).
By the way, the original deposits have been already refunded (in all four casinos; in the fifth one it was not because I lost the lot).

 

[thesmacker]

The way in which these casinos find it their right to withhold money from people with little to no proof of problems is absolutely sickening. The online casino industry is so worried about getting ripped of by fraud that they blind themselves to the fact that the house wins regardless. If they dont wish people to take advantage of promotions then they shouldnt offer them. Im so sick of reading thread after thread of complaints about supposedly reputable casinos. Odds on and FL being the leading 2 candidates. Its getting to the point where online gambling is not worth the time because of moron casino managers being so paranoid that every player that enters their casino is fraudulent.

 

[cipher]

Mark10, The information that you posted earlier today with regards Neteller is mind boggling.

I'd like to clarify a couple of the issues from your earlier post.

1) Do you know for fact that Neteller has provided information relative and pertinent to your account or shared account to ANY OF THE (4) OTHER CASINOS THAT ARE RELEVENT TO THIS THREAD?

2) If yes, how do you know this?

3) Quote "they make your account history public." Who is "they" Neteller or the Casinos?

Have a good one.
Cipher

 

[jetset]

You beat me to the draw there Cipher - these are very pertinent questions after Mark10's allegations here, and he should answer them.

Mark10 did you ask the Supervisor why they have been igonoring your emails? What did he say?

Please keep us posted here on the outcome once EH management gets back to you.

 

[mark10]

cipher, I know for a fact that Neteller has provided the English Group with the list of my transactions. A supervisor in English Harbour group told me so.

You ask: "they make your account history public." Who is "they" Neteller or the Casinos?

"They" is neteller. I said "public", which of course, is an exageration. But they certainly have disclosed the list of my transactions to English Harbour group. And English Harbour group could see a transaction in another casino for another person's account, and this is the primary cause of non-payment.

jetset, no I haven't asked the manager "why", I just told him that emails were not answered, but he did not comment on it.

 

[cipher]

At this point in time Mark 10 I don't think I'd be placing a lot of confidence in anything that any of these 4 or 5 casinos are telling you.

Secondly, the only way English Harbour would be able to see a Neteller transaction in another casino for another person's account is to be engaged in collusion with English Harbour and I've got to tell you that Neteller has far too much to lose by any such activity.

Lastly, Jetset's question as to why they (English Harbour) has been ignoring your emails needs to be answered. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[maxmax]

Neteller gives out your name, billing address, phone # and everything else. Most likely Mark used his friends or families account (doubtfully family because EH would probably let the same Last name slide).

So they flagged him as being a stranger who probably hacked someones account