Betzest voids 3500 euro balance legit?

Hi Everybody, :)

Thank you all for your feedback, it was more than welcome (each critic is a step forward if it's constructive). We are continuously trying to improve our product and give the best experience to Betzest players. We took your opinions in consideration and analysed this case carefully once again.

As you noticed we have daily unique casino/sports promotions campaigns to suite all players demands, i can assure you that at Betzest have probably the best casino promotions in the market.

@Crazy7 as we expressed in the first reply, you breached two of our bonus T&C clauses, namely 3.12 and 3.13 of the bonus T&C's. (Outdated URL (Invalid))

The game gave you three options to choose from when you won the first free spins, to either collect your prize for the bonus game, gamble your win for a mystical prize or re-play the bonus game. If you had chosen the first option everything would be correct, but the gamble feature and the re-try feature (Outdated URL (Invalid)) options forfeit the initial winnings and thus making possible another bet with the amount that you forfeited in the first place.

As we said earlier, you knew this very well as you could see the balance increase during the free spin section, and when you forfeited them, you saw the balance decrease knowing thus that this would be considered a new bet by the system, as normally when you refuse a winning, in order to win more, this is considered as a bet. And as you know, the more you bet the more bonus turnover you create.

Therefore we argue that you used this option to beat the wagering easily, and not once, which could be easily forgivable, but three times (Outdated URL (Invalid)) and making it for us very difficult to act differently. You have added approximately 130€ from this feature to the bonus wagering.

We express very clearly in our T&C's that we consider irregular play any of these features so playing them, we repeat, not once, but multiple times it is considered a breach of the terms.

We are also very sorry to hear, even from experienced players, very biased argumentation and offensive speech. If a player wants to play real money, he can do literally everything he wants on the game, and no one would interfere, we make sure of that. But in the moment that you choose to play with bonus money, adding thus a help to your initial deposit, there are rules to be followed and respected, because this is how the industry works. As you perfectly did in your first bonus win at our casino, and we remind you that we payed you instantly, without any hassle whatsoever. You should have read carefully all the T&C's before to use the bonus play, and this is certainly not our fault.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you again for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards

Casino Manager.
 
Hi Everybody, :)

Thank you all for your feedback, it was more than welcome (each critic is a step forward if it's constructive). We are continuously trying to improve our product and give the best experience to Betzest players. We took your opinions in consideration and analysed this case carefully once again.

As you noticed we have daily unique casino/sports promotions campaigns to suite all players demands, i can assure you that at Betzest have probably the best casino promotions in the market.

@Crazy7 as we expressed in the first reply, you breached two of our bonus T&C clauses, namely 3.12 and 3.13 of the bonus T&C's. (Outdated URL (Invalid))

The game gave you three options to choose from when you won the first free spins, to either collect your prize for the bonus game, gamble your win for a mystical prize or re-play the bonus game. If you had chosen the first option everything would be correct, but the gamble feature and the re-try feature (Outdated URL (Invalid)) options forfeit the initial winnings and thus making possible another bet with the amount that you forfeited in the first place.

As we said earlier, you knew this very well as you could see the balance increase during the free spin section, and when you forfeited them, you saw the balance decrease knowing thus that this would be considered a new bet by the system, as normally when you refuse a winning, in order to win more, this is considered as a bet. And as you know, the more you bet the more bonus turnover you create.

Therefore we argue that you used this option to beat the wagering easily, and not once, which could be easily forgivable, but three times (Outdated URL (Invalid)) and making it for us very difficult to act differently. You have added approximately 130€ from this feature to the bonus wagering.

We express very clearly in our T&C's that we consider irregular play any of these features so playing them, we repeat, not once, but multiple times it is considered a breach of the terms.

We are also very sorry to hear, even from experienced players, very biased argumentation and offensive speech. If a player wants to play real money, he can do literally everything he wants on the game, and no one would interfere, we make sure of that. But in the moment that you choose to play with bonus money, adding thus a help to your initial deposit, there are rules to be followed and respected, because this is how the industry works. As you perfectly did in your first bonus win at our casino, and we remind you that we payed you instantly, without any hassle whatsoever. You should have read carefully all the T&C's before to use the bonus play, and this is certainly not our fault.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you again for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards

Casino Manager.

Quite staggered by that answer to be honest.

Many members here have politely explained to you how that slot works including members that work in the industry.

Yet your response is still to come back with same reply as at the beginning.

Sorry but you are completely wrong on how that slot works. Really feel so bad at way that player has been treated .

For last time he has done nothing wrong. The way that slot goes you can collect your winnings or retry knowing you could most likely win less . So many have explained how it works and you still come back saying the player abused the bonus.

Sorry but first rule of being a casino owner should be to understand how the slots work.

Dont normally do this but @Casinomeister should a casino like this not be rogued. The Rep has openly said they will not pay a player for the wrong reason. It has been explained by many that actually know how slots work that he is wrong.

Yet still he says he is right and player abused it. Totally wrong and as rogue behaviour as you can get.

Normally I am easy going but this whole thing stinks. The fact he is telling all the members here their opinions are biased just because they tried to explain nicely how the slot works. Sorry but that casino is a total and utter joke.
 
We are also very sorry to hear, even from experienced players, very biased argumentation and offensive speech.

Rubbish, there was no biased argumentation. Replaying a bonus should not fall foul of that type of rule.

Notice you didn't address my question, if a player wins 8 free spins on say Who Wants To Be A Millionaire or Extra Chilli, then gamble it, that is doing exactly what your terms say you can't, so would those winnings be voided?

As for offensive, if you scam players, then what do you expect? Everyone to say how great you are?
 
@Crazy7 I would do a PAB against this casino right away. You might not win it as casino seems to be not willing to pay winnings and might not cooperate with @maxd but I would still try.

Hopefully you will get paid but if not at least casino will get shown for what they are and rogued. Really still shocked at Reps response to the matter.
 
Hi Everybody, :)

Thank you all for your feedback, it was more than welcome (each critic is a step forward if it's constructive). We are continuously trying to improve our product and give the best experience to Betzest players. We took your opinions in consideration and analysed this case carefully once again.

As you noticed we have daily unique casino/sports promotions campaigns to suite all players demands, i can assure you that at Betzest have probably the best casino promotions in the market.

@Crazy7 as we expressed in the first reply, you breached two of our bonus T&C clauses, namely 3.12 and 3.13 of the bonus T&C's. (Outdated URL (Invalid))

The game gave you three options to choose from when you won the first free spins, to either collect your prize for the bonus game, gamble your win for a mystical prize or re-play the bonus game. If you had chosen the first option everything would be correct, but the gamble feature and the re-try feature (Outdated URL (Invalid)) options forfeit the initial winnings and thus making possible another bet with the amount that you forfeited in the first place.

As we said earlier, you knew this very well as you could see the balance increase during the free spin section, and when you forfeited them, you saw the balance decrease knowing thus that this would be considered a new bet by the system, as normally when you refuse a winning, in order to win more, this is considered as a bet. And as you know, the more you bet the more bonus turnover you create.

Therefore we argue that you used this option to beat the wagering easily, and not once, which could be easily forgivable, but three times (Outdated URL (Invalid)) and making it for us very difficult to act differently. You have added approximately 130€ from this feature to the bonus wagering.

We express very clearly in our T&C's that we consider irregular play any of these features so playing them, we repeat, not once, but multiple times it is considered a breach of the terms.

We are also very sorry to hear, even from experienced players, very biased argumentation and offensive speech. If a player wants to play real money, he can do literally everything he wants on the game, and no one would interfere, we make sure of that. But in the moment that you choose to play with bonus money, adding thus a help to your initial deposit, there are rules to be followed and respected, because this is how the industry works. As you perfectly did in your first bonus win at our casino, and we remind you that we payed you instantly, without any hassle whatsoever. You should have read carefully all the T&C's before to use the bonus play, and this is certainly not our fault.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you again for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards

Casino Manager.

When I read the Trancemonkey response I thought hmm lets see if the Casino leaps on the wagering aspect as a reason not to pay.


And sure enough you have. However I think you need to work on the logic of this-:

“Therefore we argue that you used this option to beat the wagering easily, and not once, which could be easily forgivable, but three times (Outdated URL (Invalid)) and making it for us very difficult to act differently. You have added approximately 130€ from this feature to the bonus wagering”.

I think you need to re-examine the meaning of “easily” in this context - 130 euros is a tiny contribution.

The fact that you have the chutzpah to put this forward as serious reason not to pay the OP is both ludicrous and disgusting. The fact that your happy to alienate and insult the intelligence of established community members here, as well as an experienced game developer with that reason is even worse.
 
Well - looking at this problem at the surface - did the player increase his bet size beyond the allowed €3 wager? If not, he did not breach the terms.

If the mechanics of the slot allows for free spins to be respun or whatever, then those features should have been disabled - this is the year 2020, and this can be done. If it can't be disabled, then WARN THE PLAYER beforehand, or disallow the the slot game.

The player did not select his wagering to go beyond €3, so in my opinion, there was no breach of terms on the player's part.

This is truly a disappointing response from a casino manager. I don't understand why this is not clear.
 
@Betzest_Casino Please please go play Medusa Megaways and trigger a bonus, where you also get a chance to replay for bonus once more and tell me that a purposely place mechanic in the game is cheating? Or go and play Ooh Aah Dracula and Boulder Bucks and trigger more than 1 heart or 1 pick and tell me what you call that.

It's a game mechanic built into the slot.
The issue you have is that somehow Microgaming is adding that to the players balance, I get that. But it's not the players fault, you should again bring that up with the provider, or you know block the game so it can't be launched when playing with bonus money?

This again is still not the players fault. I still think you should pay him the whole amount.
But if I could suggest a meet in the middle way, is that you put the 3500 euros back into his account with a wager of 130 euros which you say he managed to wager from those 3 bonuses and then he can wager that on other games.

I still don't think it's fair, but it's better than nothing.
 
So according to the rep, the "replay the feature" option makes the previous winnings the stake for the new feature.
So i guess that means if i play at €2/spin and win €50 in a feature, when i choose to replay it, the second feature will pay me according to a €50 spin instead of a €2 spin. :rolleyes:
Because thats how the rep explains it.

But we all know that is not how it works, not at all.
The bet for the second replay-feature is still €2 and not €50, meaning the player has never exceeded the max bet.

Old Attachment (Invalid)
 
The bet for the second replay-feature is still €2 and not €50, meaning the player has never exceeded the max bet.
I can't understand how this simple fact is so difficult to understand on the casino side. Bet has never changed and the player has not used any double up-feature etc etc.

This case is already beginning to take on comic features. This all can't be so hard to understand simple case if betzest wants to keep it simple. Pay the money and say sorry we were wrong. That's it
 
So according to the rep, the "replay the feature" option makes the previous winnings the stake for the new feature.
So i guess that means if i play at €2/spin and win €50 in a feature, when i choose to replay it, the second feature will pay me according to a €50 spin instead of a €2 spin. :rolleyes:
Because thats how the rep explains it.

But we all know that is not how it works, not at all.
The bet for the second replay-feature is still €2 and not €50, meaning the player has never exceeded the max bet.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

How would Deal or no Deal work? Thats exactly the same mechanic - or is that game banned as well for the same reason.
 
As far as I can see the mentioned games are not available at the particular casino. Meaning, there is no way to compare how bets/win etc are handled from a game providers point of view. So the casino can't compare them.

Also, I'll leave my personal opinion out of this topic :)
 

Sorry this discussion is way over my head I am just a player who was concerned or this was the right decision of the casino. The forum gives the best feedback as of the players and casino-affiliate expertise. I went forward with the PAB process. Thanks for all the clear opinions.
 
Sorry this discussion is way over my head I am just a player who was concerned or this was the right decision of the casino. The forum gives the best feedback as of the players and casino-affiliate expertise. I went forward with the PAB process. Thanks for all the clear opinions.

Remember to obey pab rules so shhhhh until pab is done :)
 
Hi Everybody, :) .....

As you noticed we have daily unique casino/sports promotions campaigns to suite all players demands, i can assure you that at Betzest have probably the best casino promotions ....

You can have the best promotions in the world. When you lack the patience and understanding of this industry, you do both yourself - and your players a great disservice.

The player seems to have gone the route of complaining - i'll leave it be.

Nate
 
I can kind of see the casino position here. The position is you bet 2.5 and won 59. But then you gambled that 59. And that’s a bet.

I believe the same applies if you win in Book Of Dead and gamble your win - gamble above the stake limit and you’re gonna lose.

(the Who WantsTo Be A Millionaire comparison isn’t the same - you’re not gambling money, you’re gambling spins. At the time of gambling the spins, your win is zero. And frankly, gambling the spins means it’ll probably stay zero.)
 
I can kind of see the casino position here. The position is you bet 2.5 and won 59. But then you gambled that 59. And that’s a bet.

I believe the same applies if you win in Book Of Dead and gamble your win - gamble above the stake limit and you’re gonna lose.

(the Who WantsTo Be A Millionaire comparison isn’t the same - you’re not gambling money, you’re gambling spins. At the time of gambling the spins, your win is zero. And frankly, gambling the spins means it’ll probably stay zero.)

But by re-trying you are basically voiding the first bonus. Your bet isn't 59.
In a gamble it's obvious your 'bet' for the game is the current winnings, in this game you are 'resetting' the bonus for a 2nd chance.

regarding the WWTBAM example, the term they are using to void the wagering is '

“Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values”

So gambling the free spins is clearly against the rules, despite BTG stating gambling them is the best strategy.

I don't know if they are serving BTG games, but plenty of others use the same type of thing, something to increase the value of the bonus, like for example the no limit book game, where you can reduce the number of spins, to increase the win lines.

If they are going to void bonuses for using that type of feature, then those games should be in the excluded list. Games with a gamble on the end result are fine, as thats covered clearly in the terms.
 
I can kind of see the casino position here. The position is you bet 2.5 and won 59. But then you gambled that 59. And that’s a bet.

I believe the same applies if you win in Book Of Dead and gamble your win - gamble above the stake limit and you’re gonna lose.

(the Who WantsTo Be A Millionaire comparison isn’t the same - you’re not gambling money, you’re gambling spins. At the time of gambling the spins, your win is zero. And frankly, gambling the spins means it’ll probably stay zero.)
I dont think its fair to compare it to the gamble in Book of dead.
Because the option to replay the feature does not change the stake for the new feature in any way.
If the stake for the new feature would be changed to whatever you won in the first one i would agree, but that is not the case, the bet for the new feature remains the same.
 
Just when you think you have seen it all in 2020.

Along come Betzest with the lamest excuse for voiding a payment.

Then compound it, by trying to justify it by talking complete bollox.

Followed by the cherry on the cake ( or last nail in the coffin) accusing the members of a well respected gambling forum of bias for not agreeing with them.

This is going to be a very expensive £3.5k
 
Last edited:
I think this ought to be brought to the attention of Microgaming. The back office of the game shouldn’t be operating like it’s been placed as a separate wager if the player rejects the original bonus.

It’s clearly an in-game gamble mechanic, which potentially would void a bonus if used at some casinos.

Overall, it needs addressing; pay the player, learn from the mistakes and move forward. It’s the right thing to do.

Rob
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Meister Ratings

Back
Top