Betzest voids 3500 euro balance legit?

[Crazy7]

I have been a customer for a while and didn't have any problems with playing and cashing out at betzest until this weekend they unjustified confiscated 3500 euro in my opinion. I am not sure if I am in the wrong.


The maximum bet size with a bonus is 3 euro which I totally respected. I didn't bet more then 2.5 euro.

"After withdrawing a small amount. I get the email which quoted " Unless stated otherwise on the specific bonus landing pages, all Bonuses in the Casino have got a max bet restriction in place of €3 per game round"

After to found out what happened I got the message " You have bet 59.5 euro, 47.5 euro, 32.5 euro on the game Lucky Leprechauns Loot with your Bonus money. "

I checked my play history and indeed I did play that slot never the less I never bet more then 2.5 So I checked my game history and I found that I made 3 big bet sizes on the slot I triggered the retry freespins feature. I attached a picture to show this feature after winning the free spins have ended with a 2.5 betsize you can choose to replay the freespins. After choosing that feature your winnings start on 0 and you get 15 new free spins with the betsize of 2.5 euro. There inner gameplay shows it was a betsize of the FULL free spin amount I further explain:

Picture 1 choose to replay the free spins

2. Next picture shows that I am ONLY betting 2.5 euro on the slot when I win in the first free spins and I win 59.5 euro then i click on replay the freespins ( this will set my freepins winning on 0 and replay the free spins) after replay the free spins it will give you 15 free spins with a bet size of 2.5 euro on that free spin I won a amount of 94 euro.

So my TOTAL win of this free spins is 94 euro bet size 2.5 euro NOT 153.5 with a bet size of 59.5!

Is it legit to void my winnings, for the casino technically I never bet more then 2.5 euro al though the system shows I betted more. I never intend to do this and if I had know I would never chose the feature of course.

I hope the forum can help me out understand there decision and if they are legit. The casino only want to offer me the same bonus offer 100% 100 bonus and will not revise there decision

 

[anddi32]

So my TOTAL win of this free spins is 94 euro bet size 2.5 euro NOT 153.5 with a bet size of 59.5!

Is it legit to void my winnings, for the casino technically I never bet more then 2.5 euro al though the system shows I betted more. I never intend to do this and if I had know I would never chose the feature of course.

There is something wrong with the system. It's sure thing that your first free spins-win can't be bet size for the second free spins. Your bet size in both features should be 2,5 euros.

Maybe you should ask them to check your game history once again. If not working i guess it's PAB or MGA-complaint time. In my mind this case is clear as crystal water. Casino is wrong.


You can find Betzest REP here in casinomeister but last login shows june so maybe doesn't help

 

[Crazy7]

Yeah my question here is. The "rebuy" function supposed to count for a 59.5 bet size Because that is my first freespin win I click on the rebuy feature and the system shows I betting 59.5 doesn't supposed to count for 1 big bet of 59.5 or a double up feature. Because I never bet over 2.5. It just a reset in my opinion.

I am kind of new to online casinos so thats why I have a question to this forum and want to know what you guys think

 

[Betzest_Casino]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

 

[Crazy7]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Thank you for responding on this open forum. In the screenshot as you can see I don't gain anything doing these "replay freespins" wager I even get less money back!
I am a player that like to take a gamble sometime and I thought it was fun to re-do my free spins because I won a little bit to less than I wanted to win and I get penalized for doing that even that the optics are real clear on the slot, no sign of RE-bet your full win free spins amount. Its literally saying "replay freespins" which means start from zero and try it again. Even the bet size of 2.5 is not higher as 3 euro as in your terms. There is no clear benefit for me re-betting my original win 57 euro and then start from a zero win balance.

I find it a bit harsh for a casino to force this rule even it looks like a big bet in your system it was never a big bet with an advantage or intension to bet so big technically I didn't bet over 2.5. Also its nowhere stated that I bet my full winning amount (or doubling up)

I hope as a sovereign casino you can tell the casino meister community how other players can know these kinds of things. I still don't agree with the decision as I am totally unaware of betting the full free spin amount! My big wins were made with totally different games and slots, it just looks like a reason not to pay out my winnings.

 

[paul7388]

SO

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Sorry but that is a totally wrong reply.

I think you need to contact MG and ask them how their slots work.

I am the first to tell people sorry you have broke terms and whether it is right or not the casino habit in their terms so you will not get paid.

But in this case the player broke no terms. Even if a MG is adding the winnings as they occur the slot gives you a chance to forfeit winnings and play the free spins again. On doing so the balance corrects and you replay the spins which could well mean you earn less.

But in no way are you placing another bet and certainly not a high bet. This all occurs on original spin bet. MG slots also add money to your balance before a gamble feature. If you lose gamble it is removed again.

This all comes down to the way MG slots work. Other providers will not add winnings to balance until feature is finished one way or the other.

So I think you should be contacting MG and asking them how the slots work as this player played the game genuinely and has not broken any terms.

The player should not be punished due to a casino not understanding how a slot works.

I normally tell players well you broke terms so up to casino but in this case casino is totally wrong.

As to the OP I would either do a PAB here or take it further as it is an open shut case. The Rep has explained reasons why they stopped winnings and as they are totally wrong and clear from their reply you never broke terms should be no way you can lose .

 

[Crazy7]

Thank you for the responses and explanations, I wasn't sure if I did anything wrong. I was just using the feature of the slot, hope I can settle it with the casino manager. If else I will try to do a PAB like Paul recommended.

 

[curremon]

IMO casino is wrong .at this one... And if you re-play spins like in that medusa megaways game it shouldnt make it towards wagering, only that original 2,5€ should be counted by the system or otherwise its screwed up...

 

[anddi32]

IMO casino is wrong .at this one... And if you re-play spins like in that medusa megaways game it shouldnt make it towards wagering, only that original 2,5€ should be counted by the system or otherwise its screwed up...

Yes excactly. Casino's logic in this case is totally weird. Re-try-feature is inside the bonus feature and it should count only 2,5e wager (that spin where bonus triggered). I don't know why that re-try-second chance counted as wager. It's so silly because bet in re-try-feature never was 59.5 euros. It was one 2,5e all the time.

This is totally wrong decision to void players money because this. the player has acted just right. If you have some problem with these kind of features (and no, this is not any double up-feature this is second chance feature where player hand over first result and take risk for another) you should ban these slots from playing with bonus money.

I really hope betzest understand that you are wrong and player get his / her money.

 

[lnspin]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Totally wrong answer.. Another casino manager that does not understand slots..

 

[curremon]

@Betzest_Casino check this again... you are totally wrong

 

[Mouche12]

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Oh, alrighty then. No inconvenience at all, and if I were the OP I'd be overjoyed with being a member of Betzest too!

 

[KasinoKing]

Thank you for the responses and explanations, I wasn't sure if I did anything wrong. I was just using the feature of the slot, hope I can settle it with the casino manager. If else I will try to do a PAB like Paul recommended.

You are completely in the right and the casino is completely wrong.
Hopefully the casino will see sense and so avoid wasting Max's time on this open & shut case.

KK

 

[Toronion]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

This is totaly absurd, pay the money to the player.

 

[Playford7]

@Betzest_Casino

You have not a leg to stand on here, even if you were a pirate with a wooden leg..

pay your customer as they have not put a foot wrong..

Also as this is your job I’d take researching slots and the payouts a little more seriously as it’s kind of how you get paid.

 

[CasinoNinja]

This freespins replay function is in alot of games!

Medusa Megaways, Chameleonaire, Kingspins Crowns, Ooh Aah Dracula, Boulder Bucks.

Seriously, check these slots out @Betzest_Casino and see that this is a genuine function inside the games, if Microgaming is counting it as wagering then you need to sort that out with the provider. This is not the OPs fault at all!

 

[colinsunderland]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Wow, I hope everyone avoids your casino.

If someone plays a game like who wants to be a millionaire and gambles the free spins, do you void their winnings too, as they are using a feature within the game to try to increase their winnings?

 

[curremon]

@Betzest_Casino online 35min ago and no comment ?

 

[The Viking]

@Betzest_Casino online 35min ago and no comment ?

?? they have made a comment and most likely are going to stick to it (for whatever reason ) so only think left for OP is to PAB as i cant see how the player could possible be wrong here

 

[curremon]

?? they have made a comment and most likely are going to stick to it (for whatever reason ) so only think left for OP is to PAB as i cant see how the player could possible be wrong here

So they on purpose want to waste peoples time on case whats most clear in ages... If they just check how game works and then pay the player... no pab needed ..

 

[trancemonkey]

Dear Sir,

Regarding your betting activity, our system is more than correct and recorded it precisely.

It seems that, not in one, but in three instances during bonus wagering, you used a feature called re-try free spin. In the moment that you refused the first legit winnings from the free spins, the winning amount that you refused, since it was already added to your balance, was considered a legit bet by the Microgaming system, as it normally contributes to the wagering (Outdated URL (Invalid)). Hence the breach of the clause 3.12. You repeated this two more times during your bonus wagering, knowing very well that this would contribute to the wagering and hence it would be easier to wager the amount using this feature.

Since you can see your balance during the game, you could easily understand that this feature has those specific mechanics, but you carried on and used that feature two more times, as we said above.

Furthermore, according to clause 3.13 of our Bonus T&C’s this feature is considered irregular play and we quote: “Using the “Double-Up”, gamble feature or any other feature within a game to increase win values” and it is clear that you used this feature to increase the winnings as in the first instance of the 59.5€ bet, where the initial bet was 2.5€ and the winnings from the free spins that you forfeited were 57€, and the whole session was rightly considered as a 59.5€ bet (Outdated URL (Invalid)). From the re-try on this bet you won 84€ and this was a 27€ increase on your original 57€ win. The same option was used for the other two instances.

In the light of the above the breach of the two clauses of our Bonus T&C’s stands. Your deposit was returned and the winnings were confiscated according to clause 1.5.3 “If Betzest suspect or detect any Irregular Play, Betzest may disqualify You from the Bonus and withhold withdrawals and/or confiscate winnings and/or close Your Account.”

We kindly remind you that you accepted these T&C’s when you registered at the site. Nevertheless, as a gesture of good will, we offered you the same bonus again with a kind reminder to read carefully our T&C’s. This offer still stands. We also remind you that you were paid correctly and fast, when you played in adherence with our bonus T&C's before this case.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and we thank you for being a member of Betzest.

Kind Regards.

Casino Manager

Form someone that works in the industry and has to work with the rules and regulations regularly, i find this answer extremely worrying, and factually incorrect. The fact their system shows the free spins round as a "re-buy" is not the customers fault - the game does NOT display this as "buying a feature" but displays it as simply being offered the chance to turn down the initial win and replay the free games. In fact, until the player refuses to take this offer, the money should not have been banked.

As you are well aware, according to the technical standards in almost all jurisdictions i am aware of, it MUST be clear to the player when the game starts and ends and what the bet value is - the total bet MUST be clearly shown. In this situation, the bet size is clearly shown as €2,50 and nowhere on the screen does it show the value of the feature being used as a wager. Therefore, you are legally incorrect as well as morally incorrect.

The section in bold also refers to "any other feature within a game to increase win values". As you are well aware, in a situation where a game offers you a chance to replay the free games, you cannot rightfully assume that a player would in any situation consider this to be in breach of your terms and conditions as it is an integral part of the game design. With this term, you could even argue that a "double down" on Blackjack was a breach of terms which of course would never hold up in court, as it's an integral part of the game design (whereas a gamble such as a red/black is arguably not).

I don't know what jurisdiction you are operating in, but here are the technical standards from the UKGC Remote Gaming Technical Standards:

"RTS implementation guidance 2A a. The financial commitment for each gamble should be displayed somewhere on the screen either in the currency of the customer’s account or in the currency of the product."
This value is NOT shown to the player (as far as i can see in the game) as the financial commitment that you say the OP was aware of.

Of course, if you can prove that the OP was purposely using this to beat the wagering, and this was not the only time they did something like this AND that they were aware of this, then you may have a point BUT the fact remains that the game does NOT show the replay as a wager, nor does it tell you you are wagering the total amount won from the free games, and this would simply not pass any legal test - so your claims are baseless and without grounds.

So i'm not sure how you can defend this...

 

[Nate]

This is not cool Betzest

I have alerted Marius (Ex-Redbet) to this thread. He can resolve this and save his brand some face.

Nate

 

[Nate]

Edited:

Marius is looking into it - There seems to have been a misunderstanding. The quote of An Army - was meant to be relayed as they had helped to get their terms approved.

Lets hope he can help to resolve this.

Nate

 

[colinsunderland]

These should be rogue not grey zoned if this is how they operate
@Casinomeister

 

[trancemonkey]

Well I have a reply already - I can assure you that times and people have changed - Not for the better. I've been told there are enough people to deal with this issue including 'An Army of Lawyers' .... I'll just leave it there.

Please, if the Casino Manager cannot or will not listen - then please PAB and cease posting here.

Submit a complaint

Nate

EDIT: Based on the edit above, I retract this statement for now...