Whine and Moan Betfred

[aceking123]

i think your find its playtech you seem to have extreme bad runs with it , then out of the blue it goes the other way , pointless having a pop @ betfred blaming them its pretty much the same with wherever you play & yes its very very frustrating, im on the same run at a few casinos if your a loyal customer they help you out with some free chips , your not going to win everytime .

 

[Nifty29]

glad to see others are complaining about betfred so i am just going to have a bit of a moan myself ,firstly i have been gamling online for over 15 years i have seen it all more or less good times bad etc .i recently joined betfred after having a very long run of poor play from 32 red which i still think is one of the best online sites unfortunately i withdrew money from them and have been unable to win since this happened over over a year ago .btw it was only a quarter of what i had already lost .bluesquare is also just as bad atm you cant get a win or bonus .anyway back to betfred i am now down over 250 quid with them in just over 3 months .i only play once or twice a week but so far the game play is totally pathetic no scatter bonuses no wins its just a complete disaster .you start 40 -50 quid and its just loss after loss is digraceful how can they get away with it do ecogra or some other organisation not do there jobs .i reckon the numerator paying out at around 40 -50 % the gambling online has gone downhill badly in the last 3 years imho .i will be playing again next week and will update 15 mins for 50 quid pretty bad casino in my opinion .

I know it isn't fun to lose, but you really need to educate yourself about the realities of gambling. It's not even close to reasonable to label a casino "disgraceful" or "needing intervention from ecogra" etc based solely on you not winning.

There's nothing wrong with moaning, but you need to blame the right party.....after all, it was you that risked your money.

If losing $250 over 3 months induces this kind of way off the mark reaction, then you should consider giving up gambling, as this can and will happen wherever you play.

 

[runner40]

thx for the replys firstly i will say why would i go on losing money reloading if there are no wins bonuses or scatters .i have lost many many thousands as well ,but i am not prepared to take it lying down if you can lose thousands and be happy about it great .i on the other hand dont agree with 50 quid being lost without any sort of decent win or bonus round i am only playing in 2ps 30p a spin equate that by ten how much would have i lost .BETFRED games are lousy there percentage payout for me anyway is way below the legal limit .this is why i am saying do ecogra not investigate gameplay .i know its only been 3 months and a few hundred quid but to all who are thinking of going to betfred be warned my experience is there very very poor . i need eduacated thx for that !!

 

[ThePOGG]

It's unfortunate but the human brain simply isn't programmed to ignore short term patterns. We're not designed to understand probablisitic long terms.

Without a word of a lie, over a course of several years i've played millions of hands of one specific VP varient and i've seen massive upswings, but the flip side is i've seen massive downswings. In a game where i should see a RF 1 in approx 20000 hands, i've seen stretches of 200000 without a RF. During the two such streches i've seen both times - despite having a good understanding of probability - even i wonder whether i was being cheated. Overall despite these extended bad runs, i'm a ahead a substantial amount at this particular game but that doesn't make it any easier to believe the game is honest when these bad runs happen.

 

[runner40]

It's unfortunate but the human brain simply isn't programmed to ignore short term patterns. We're not designed to understand probablisitic long terms.

Without a word of a lie, over a course of several years i've played millions of hands of one specific VP varient and i've seen massive upswings, but the flip side is i've seen massive downswings. In a game where i should see a RF 1 in approx 20000 hands, i've seen stretches of 200000 without a RF. During the two such streches i've seen both times - despite having a good understanding of probability - even i wonder whether i was being cheated. Overall despite these extended bad runs, i'm a ahead a substantial amount at this particular game but that doesn't make it any easier to believe the game is honest when these bad runs happen.

thx again for the reply i to have played long long stretches i tend to stick to a couple of games myself .i have played marathon sessions as you say it can go up for a time then down ,but after 3 mths with nothing but loss after loss i cant even get above my deposit on most occasssions its poor ive been in nearly every casino you can name betfred propably not the worst but they could very well be .i am sure most people would agree there are better casinos out there prob just time to move on .hate getting beat though .

 

[dionysus]

.i am sure most people would agree there are better casinos out there prob just time to move on .hate getting beat though .

If you hate getting beat,it's more likely time to move on out of gambling rather than to a new casino;casinos are fundamentally designed to beat players. You cannot go in expecting to win, rather , hoping for the chance to.

 

[Nifty29]

I'll tell you one thing that is really annoying me, and the rep has failed to address or resolve.

The new slots all have a .20c line bet minimum, which means $4-5 MINIMUM bet. Absolutely crazy.

 

[Betfred]

Hi Nifty,

I've just had opportunity to read this thread for updates. As per my private message we're looking at changing the betting limits for AUD now, which for some reason have defaulted to rather high minimum bet amounts.

Runner40: as the other members have stated here, our games are provided by Playtech. This company powers the games for a number of popular casinos and are duly regulated and audited by third parties to ensure they work within designed operating ranges. Each slot machine varies, with some paying out small, regular amounts and some less frequent big wins, which can result in a lot of player frustration. I invite you to pass on your username to me in a private message so I can inspect your play history - it could be the games have been under performing, in which case I'll move to bonus you. We can discuss which type of games you like to play as well and I'll be able to recommend some which might be more to your tastes.

If there's anything else reference our operation then please don't hesitate to mention it here or in a private message.

All the best,

Aaron

 

[davidfordham]

davidfordham

Hi Aaron,
Please assure us all that the roulette wheel picks ONLY random numbers.

Thanks

 

[chuchu59]

Hi Aaron,
Please assure us all that the roulette wheel picks ONLY random numbers.

Thanks

Betfred is associated with Manchester United so maybe you can change your handle to davidbeckham and your numbers will come up.

 

[Nifty29]

Hi Aaron,
Please assure us all that the roulette wheel picks ONLY random numbers.

Thanks

Is that a serious question?

What do you expect him to say? "No. It all depends if you've been winning or not."

 

[davidfordham]

davidfordham

Is that a serious question?

What do you expect him to say? "No. It all depends if you've been winning or not."

The idea is to pressure until the truth comes out. And when/if it does, is it legal to 'fix' the numbers so we all lose our money by the natural odds against us plus whatever other tricks are being used. By doing this, they are admitting it is possible for some to beat the wheel. In other words, THEY can cheat us, but claim WE cheat them.

Surely that is tantamount to stealing players' hard earned cash.

 

[Pinababy69]

The idea is to pressure until the truth comes out. And when/if it does, is it legal to 'fix' the numbers so we all lose our money by the natural odds against us plus whatever other tricks are being used. By doing this, they are admitting it is possible for some to beat the wheel. In other words, THEY can cheat us, but claim WE cheat them.

Surely that is tantamount to stealing players' hard earned cash.

Quit gambling, please. You must be a card carrying member of the Tinfoil Hat Club. Casinos have no need to "fix" anything..the odds are ALWAYS in their favour, and if you play long enough, you will ALWAYS lose.

 

[Tengil]

Quit gambling, please. You must be a card carrying member of the Tinfoil Hat Club. Casinos have no need to "fix" anything..the odds are ALWAYS in their favour, and if you play long enough, you will ALWAYS lose.

View attachment 33422

While I dont accuse PT of running a rigged software that sentiment isnt really true.
Numerous casinos have gone bust and there is and has been rigged softwares.

And BTW PT roulette was (some years ago) basically "rigged" in fun mode which led to a lucrative market for roulette system sellers.

 

[Nifty29]

While I dont accuse PT of running a rigged software that sentiment isnt really true.
Numerous casinos have gone bust and there is and has been rigged softwares.

And BTW PT roulette was (some years ago) basically "rigged" in fun mode which led to a lucrative market for roulette system sellers.

Could you please provide a link to that information about rigged PT software? I would be interested to read about it.

 

[Betfred]

Could you please provide a link to that information about rigged PT software? I would be interested to read about it.

As would I. Betfred only partners with leaders in our industry, aiming to provide the best, fairest and most secure gaming experience on the Internet. We would never intentionally offer games that do not operate within expected margins. This applies to roulette or any of our other 200+ games. To that end we constantly monitor results and have third parties monitor our payout percentages, which we make available to players here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Kind regards,

Aaron

 

[leo999]

been playing slots for years

leading in industry my arse your games are by far the worst ever you get zero scatters and bonuses tbh i think you are the worst payout percentage in the whole industry if anyones going to play slots or games avoid BETFRED at all costs .if i can save one player even 1 pound i will look at my first post as worthwhile btw dont listen to the workers who are obviously on here bumming up there respective companys .i have played betfred for 6 months now gambling on horses mostly throwing them 40 - 50 quid here and there to games there cheats thieves and there operators hate talking to you .they wont tell you your percentage payout because they know there thieves .i am now relying on there so called numerator swinging in my direction which it must do to be within legal limits we will wait and see.

BETFRED DO NOT GO HERE THEY ARE THIEVES INVESTIGATE ECOGRA IF YOU ARE WHAT YOU SAY YOU ARE !!!!!!!

 

[Seventh777]

leading in industry my arse your games are by far the worst ever you get zero scatters and bonuses tbh i think you are the worst payout percentage in the whole industry if anyones going to play slots or games avoid BETFRED at all costs .if i can save one player even 1 pound i will look at my first post as worthwhile btw dont listen to the workers who are obviously on here bumming up there respective companys .i have played betfred for 6 months now gambling on horses mostly throwing them 40 - 50 quid here and there to games there cheats thieves and there operators hate talking to you .they wont tell you your percentage payout because they know there thieves .i am now relying on there so called numerator swinging in my direction which it must do to be within legal limits we will wait and see.

BETFRED DO NOT GO HERE THEY ARE THIEVES INVESTIGATE ECOGRA IF YOU ARE WHAT YOU SAY YOU ARE !!!!!!!

IBN = In Before Nifty .

A question... why play at a place for over 6 months that you think is cheating you?.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

IBN = In Before Nifty .

A question... why play at a place for over 6 months that you think is cheating you?.

Evidence gathering!

Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[leo999]

IBN = In Before Nifty .

A question... why play at a place for over 6 months that you think is cheating you?.

theres always the bosses son . i bet horses and throw them a bone with the odd 40 - 50 quid winnings ,they seem to think because i have took money from horses they have the right to steal the money .paying out at below industry standard limit is illegal full stop .i am due a win simples !!! ,this is according to there operators the machine is a random numerator and sometimes it goes down and sometimes it goes up. well i am waitng on the up the odds are stacked against them .unlesss of course they keep on thieving the money of me .as i have said before and i am one in many many hundreds of hard working tax paying (not off shore )punters .go elsewhere if i ever get my so called better percentage payout it will be collected and goodbye to the thieving rabble .and boy they can give it but they hate talking on live chat .i never swore all i asked was my percentage payouts still waiting but from years of playing i would say it was aroung 50 - 60 per cent nowhere near the legal 90 odd per cent .according to them it goes up and down , 6 mths down so far for me .

BE WARNED DO NOT PLAY AT BETFRED ECOGRA INVESTIGATEB

 

[Betfred]

We would welcome any external party to investigate the systems, games and payouts of our games - we have nothing to hide. As discussed in my previous post, our payout certificates (from a recognized third party testing lab) are available to view on the website and are inline with industry standards.

I apologise if our player support have not been able to address your questions and if their approach and tone has been below standard; we have workshop training sessions starting soon to improve this. It also sounds like you've had a bad run of luck. I would be happy to go through your account and see how the games have been performing you - we can look into a bonus to rectify any unusually low returns. Just pass on your username to me in private and I'll get in contact.

However, your statements are wholly unfair and would ask you to moderate them. We have no ability to doctor the payout of machines (the games perform on servers we have no access or control to and on fixed maths determined by our suppliers), nor would we. There is absolutely no connection between your winnings from sports betting and the rate of return from our casino games. The design of online games can mean it's possible to have individual bad runs (or good!), but when a game is seen as a whole (with, say, a millions pounds of bets from many players) they are well with operating margins. Again, pass on your account details and let's see if I can help.

Kind regards,

Aaron
Head of Casino
Betfred

 

[chuchu59]

We would welcome any external party to investigate the systems, games and payouts of our games - we have nothing to hide. As discussed in my previous post, our payout certificates (from a recognized third party testing lab) are available to view on the website and are inline with industry standards.

I apologise if our player support have not been able to address your questions and if their approach and tone has been below standard; we have workshop training sessions starting soon to improve this. It also sounds like you've had a bad run of luck. I would be happy to go through your account and see how the games have been performing you - we can look into a bonus to rectify any unusually low returns. Just pass on your username to me in private and I'll get in contact.

However, your statements are wholly unfair and would ask you to moderate them. We have no ability to doctor the payout of machines (the games perform on servers we have no access or control to and on fixed maths determined by our suppliers), nor would we. There is absolutely no connection between your winnings from sports betting and the rate of return from our casino games. The design of online games can mean it's possible to have individual bad runs (or good!), but when a game is seen as a whole (with, say, a millions pounds of bets from many players) they are well with operating margins. Again, pass on your account details and let's see if I can help.

Kind regards,

Aaron
Head of Casino
Betfred

I second that. Actually, you dont need vto explain so much. The onus is on the player to prove the games are unfair or that you guys are thieves. Betfred has plenty of customers who have played at the casino for years ie more than 6 months and if they were thieves these players would be real stupid to stick with them.

 

[Casinomeister]

Admin note: cool it

@leo999 - chill out. Last warning.

 

[leo999]

well played again today only 20 quid in 15 lines at 1p 15p a go didnt want to frighten the operator of course it was the usual rubbish as i have said before betfred by far the worst payout percentages in the industry .who did i insult btw when someone stands up for thieves and tax avoiding multimillion pound industries who are basically stealing ,they cant be ordinary hard working tax paying punters .maybe my last 15 yrs online gambling are different but i have found in nearly all casinos you can generally over your initial deposit ,this does not apply in betfred .only on one occassion in ten do you ever get over your initial deposit very very poor .today for instance went from 19 pounds to 2.35 got scatter bonus great 10 spins at x6 multiplier after 10 spins grand total bonus zero .multi millionaire casino wow i bet the operator was hiding under table in fear i would win a couple pound .so i will say it again do not waste your money at betfred .i will but i am due my big random numerator swing .i have recorded my last few sessions on betfred and will post them on youtube and twitter for all to see when i am done i will post up the link .

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A £20 deposit played off at 15p per spin is a ridiculously small sample size and demonstrates nothing.

Unless you've got a sample size numbering in the tens of thousands of spins (minimum!) you can't even begin to make any sort of statement about a slot's RTP. (Personally I'd say a starting point for any sort of 'accusation' would be 100,000 spins as a bare minimum, but preferably 250K+, especially higher variance slots.)

Most software developers test their slots over MILLIONS of spins to check the RTP is as expected, so I really have no idea what your point is supposed to be. ('Random numerator swing' - what does that even mean?)

Moreover, the Betfred rep has already made it clear they have no control over their slots' RTP, and this will generally be the case at most casinos. He's also offered to review your player logs with you which is more than reasonable considering your aggressive attitude.