Betfair refuses to pay me

[jokewithme]

I opened an account at Betfair, claimed the bonus, lost everything, claimed the comp points and won 1250£. Then they closed my account and refused to pay me. What should I do?

 

[bpb]

Given the dearth of information in your original post, I doubt you'll get a reply more useful than mine.

 

[Cleveland]

The script under the user name is user controlled correct?

Why are so many of the new(?) users using Noob? Seems to be an odd coincidence

 

[RUSTYROO]

The situation you briefly described your in really sucks but i don't know how much help you can get from here as this casino has been moved to the Rogue pit.

Maybe you could try and contact one of the Betfair casino reps on here but they don't really seem to be active much these days. I wonder why

I never played at Betfair so i dont know how their comps work or the terms attached.

I hope things work out for you

I opened an account at Betfair, claimed the bonus, lost everything, claimed the comp points and won 1250£. Then they closed my account and refused to pay me. What should I do?

 

[RUSTYROO]

bpb, you were hilariously witty with that post. You made my day a little brighter

 

[The Dude]

The script under the user name is user controlled correct?

Why are so many of the new(?) users using Noob? Seems to be an odd coincidence

I changed it to "noob" for the entire forum. It was "registered user" but I felt that lacked pizazz. (I'm in the process of revamping the user group system).

/derail

 

[Nifty29]

Pizazz. Lol. Love it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I opened an account at Betfair, claimed the bonus, lost everything, claimed the comp points and won 1250£. Then they closed my account and refused to pay me. What should I do?

In the UK right?

1) Complain to the ASA that this has not been "administered fairly". You LOST on the bonus, so none of the bonus terms have any bearing. The "advert" in question for your complaint will be the one for their loyalty club scheme, and whether it has been "administered fairly".

Betfair have a whole string of "upheld" ASA adjudications listed on the ASA website. If they keep racking up more, the ASA can direct that all media outlets in the UK ban all Betfair advertising. This will certainly get the attention of the board of directors, who seem to be burying their collective heads in the sand whilst their incompetent management and marketing team make one blunder after another.

They have put the casino side under LGA control, but their sportsbook is under the watchful eye of the UK Gambling Commission, and the government have stated that this type of arrangement is due an overhaul as companies are using such "loopholes" in order to facilitate treatment of customers that would not be tolerated were they licensed fully within the UK.

The more complaints they rack up through formal channels such as the ASA, the more the government body looking into this will see, and this should inform their decision as to what changes to implement.

Betfair are also under fire for operating a policy of levying up to 60% "premium charges" on successful financial traders who use the exchange, rather than the stockmarket, to bet on price movements in a number of markets. Since Betfair do not expose their own money, but take a slice of each trade in the same way that stockmarket firms do, they cannot really justify this charge.

 

[dazlazz]

Hi jokewithme, seeing as you are in Feltham, and Betfair are based in Hammersmith (near the bridge), why not pop down there and cause a 'stink' - i.e. start shouting and demand to see one of their managers?

just a thought...

Regards,

Daz

 

[asianeyes]

In the UK right?

1) Complain to the ASA that this has not been "administered fairly". You LOST on the bonus, so none of the bonus terms have any bearing. The "advert" in question for your complaint will be the one for their loyalty club scheme, and whether it has been "administered fairly".

Betfair have a whole string of "upheld" ASA adjudications listed on the ASA website. If they keep racking up more, the ASA can direct that all media outlets in the UK ban all Betfair advertising. This will certainly get the attention of the board of directors, who seem to be burying their collective heads in the sand whilst their incompetent management and marketing team make one blunder after another.

They have put the casino side under LGA control, but their sportsbook is under the watchful eye of the UK Gambling Commission, and the government have stated that this type of arrangement is due an overhaul as companies are using such "loopholes" in order to facilitate treatment of customers that would not be tolerated were they licensed fully within the UK.

The more complaints they rack up through formal channels such as the ASA, the more the government body looking into this will see, and this should inform their decision as to what changes to implement.

Betfair are also under fire for operating a policy of levying up to 60% "premium charges" on successful financial traders who use the exchange, rather than the stockmarket, to bet on price movements in a number of markets. Since Betfair do not expose their own money, but take a slice of each trade in the same way that stockmarket firms do, they cannot really justify this charge.

Good advice to the newbie VWM as he has i legit issue at hand. As for the ones who instead decided to laugh and take the piss, you should be ashamed.

Jokewithme has an issue and he's asking for advice. Am i wrong or is that what this forum is for?

 

[Nifty29]

Good advice to the newbie VWM as he has i legit issue at hand. As for the ones who instead decided to laugh and take the piss, you should be ashamed.

Jokewithme has an issue and he's asking for advice. Am i wrong or is that what this forum is for?

Well the way I see it, why should everyone jump to the OPs aid when they couldn't be bothered explaining their situation in any detail whatsoever?

It could well be a fraud issue, or they played restricted games etc....in which case they will get some guidance. We shouldn't have to play 20 questions to find out even the basic issue.

It's a matter of give and take IMO.

Vinyl -why would you go off about the ASA and all that when you dont have the slightest idea what really happened? The whole situation seems a but too simple to be true, and probably has something to do with multi accounts or how the comps were earned....but that's just a guess, which is all anyone can do.

 

[LaHutti]

Well the way I see it, why should everyone jump to the OPs aid when they couldn't be bothered explaining their situation in any detail whatsoever?

It could well be a fraud issue, or they played restricted games etc....in which case they will get some guidance. We shouldn't have to play 20 questions to find out even the basic issue.

It's a matter of give and take IMO.

Vinyl -why would you go off about the ASA and all that when you dont have the slightest idea what really happened? The whole situation seems a but too simple to be true, and probably has something to do with multi accounts or how the comps were earned....but that's just a guess, which is all anyone can do.

No mr. Nifty....it WAS a guess, until you made it public. THEN it became an accusation, or rather multiple accusations, which, to say the least, isn't a very friendly or productive way to respond to someone asking for help. Especially a new user, who may not know the ins and outs of how to use a forum, or what information would be useful to cast light on their case.
In my opinion, if you had any wish to help, you should ask into the problem at hand, if you feel op didn't provide the information you would need, to give qualified advice to solve their problem, and THEN give them advice, if you felt you could help, and not jump up and accuse op of fraud, multiple accounts, or of playing restricted games etc. without knowing ANYTHING about it.
I'm sure you know the old saying ... "If you don't have anything nice to say, SHUT YOUR PIEHOLE"....may be a little off on the correct wording, as English isn't my native language, but I'm sure you know the saying I'm speaking off.
If I may, I would like to make an educated guess, that VWM chose to "go off", as you so politely put it, about ASA, because he had a genuine wish to offer a possible solution to op's problem. Again not a very friendly, or helpful comment from you, imo.
For your information, I will have to report your reply to a moderator, as I find your reply both rude, and insulting, not to mention harmful to this forum, that we all (should) care about.
just my 2 cents.

 

[Nifty29]

No mr. Nifty....it WAS a guess, until you made it public. THEN it became an accusation, or rather multiple accusations, which, to say the least, isn't a very friendly or productive way to respond to someone asking for help. Especially a new user, who may not know the ins and outs of how to use a forum, or what information would be useful to cast light on their case.
In my opinion, if you had any wish to help, you should ask into the problem at hand, if you feel op didn't provide the information you would need, to give qualified advice to solve their problem, and THEN give them advice, if you felt you could help, and not jump up and accuse op of fraud, multiple accounts, or of playing restricted games etc. without knowing ANYTHING about it.
I'm sure you know the old saying ... "If you don't have anything nice to say, SHUT YOUR PIEHOLE"....may be a little off on the correct wording, as English isn't my native language, but I'm sure you know the saying I'm speaking off.
If I may, I would like to make an educated guess, that VWM chose to "go off", as you so politely put it, about ASA, because he had a genuine wish to offer a possible solution to op's problem. Again not a very friendly, or helpful comment from you, imo.
For your information, I will have to report your reply to a moderator, as I find your reply both rude, and insulting, not to mention harmful to this forum, that we all (should) care about.
just my 2 cents.

Please highlight where I accused the OP of fraud. I keep re-reading it and can't find where i said that.

In regards to your "piehole" comment ......seems like someone needs to take their own advice. Your last few posts have been anything but "nice".

 

[LaHutti]

Well the way I see it, why should everyone jump to the OPs aid when they couldn't be bothered explaining their situation in any detail whatsoever

It could well be a fraud issue, or they played restricted games etc....in which case they will get some guidance. We shouldn't have to play 20 questions to find out even the basic issue.

It's a matter of give and take IMO.

Vinyl -why would you go off about the ASA and all that when you dont have the slightest idea what really happened? The whole situation seems a but too simple to be true, and probably has something to do with multi accounts or how the comps were earned....but that's just a guess, which is all anyone can do.

As per request.

 

[Nifty29]

As per request.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

I didn't accuse anyone of anything. I said "it may well have been" to highlight the fact that it may not be as simple as "they took my money for no reason".....there's always a reason, and they are the most common. I know you said English isn't your first language, but I'd have thought this was pretty clear.

 

[chuchu59]

We have to understand the op is a newbie who doesnt even know where to start. Heck, a lot of us frequent posters dont even know what constitutes fraud as many casinos gladly use as a reason not to pay. We will have to ask specific questions to know more on his problem instead of accusing him of being incooperative.

 

[RUSTYROO]

You are 100% right asianeyes.

I was having a crappy day and that picture made me laugh . If I had my hand in offending or shying away the OP I am truly sorry and as I said in my first post, I hope things work out for them.

Good advice to the newbie VWM as he has i legit issue at hand. As for the ones who instead decided to laugh and take the piss, you should be ashamed.

Jokewithme has an issue and he's asking for advice. Am i wrong or is that what this forum is for?

 

[The Dude]

Well the way I see it, why should everyone jump to the OPs aid when they couldn't be bothered explaining their situation in any detail whatsoever?..

Because we should always, always give the player - especially a noob the benefit of the doubt. It was his first post, a simple "please give us more info" would have sufficed.

So in essence, yes everyone should throw their cynicism out the window and try to assist the player. It's not all about him - it's about what others can soak in from this thread. Other players with the same problem might be lurking here - seeing you jump on this guy's back - and say "hey, that's a forum I don't want to be a part of - they beat up noobies."

For all we know, this could be a "didn't play by the 'Spirit of the Bonus'" issue which is a typical Betfair stunt.

Do not beat up the newbies - welcome them with helpful advice - that's what the complaints section is all about.

 

[Nifty29]

Because we should always, always give the player - especially a noob the benefit of the doubt. It was his first post, a simple "please give us more info" would have sufficed.

So in essence, yes everyone should throw their cynicism out the window and try to assist the player. It's not all about him - it's about what others can soak in from this thread. Other players with the same problem might be lurking here - seeing you jump on this guy's back - and say "hey, that's a forum I don't want to be a part of - they beat up noobies."

For all we know, this could be a "didn't play by the 'Spirit of the Bornus'" issue which is a typical Betfair stunt.

Do not beat up the newbies - welcome them with helpful advice - that's what the complaints section is all about.

I have helped many many noobs on this forum.

IMO it is not unreasonable to expect that someone asking for other people's time and assistance might take a few extra minutes of their own to outline what the problem is.

I didn't accuse, or insult, or tell them to get lost. Hence, I do not agree that I "jumped" on them.

It's also interesting to note they haven't bothered to add anything else, but I guess that's my fault too.

 

[The Dude]

I have helped many many noobs on this forum.

IMO it is not unreasonable to expect that someone asking for other people's time and assistance might take a few extra minutes of their own to outline what the problem is.

I didn't accuse, or insult, or tell them to get lost. Hence, I do not agree that I "jumped" on them.

It's also interesting to note they haven't bothered to add anything else, but I guess that's my fault too.

This is a forum, not the PAB service!! People talk and they should be given the room to do so without being made to feel uncomfortable.

Betfair is known to expect players to "play by the spirit of the bonus". That's why they are in the rogue pit. You, as a veteran member, should have realized that right away and perhaps mentioned this - or not. You chose to participate in this thread.

And yes you did insinuate the guy holding back info for a reason. If was one of the senior members, then yes, I would think that would be something to point out, but this is this guy's 1st or 2nd post.

He may be legit, he may not be, I think this is a call I or one of the moderators need to make - not you. One thing for sure, you have put him on the defensive and have probably driven him away from posting here again.

 

[Cleveland]

It should be noted that nifty's post was a response to asianeyes post. Asianeyes flew off the handle about an issue as if he had first hand knowledge that it is real. Nifty in essence just said hey slow down, we don't know yet. Thread was calm, even nifty's first post in it was just a lol to bryan's comment. It's clear he didn't start off trying to gun down the op. None of the joking was rude or harsh in anyway by the way. Not sure why asianeyes felt the need to go there.

 

[chuchu59]

Of course its reasonable to ask the noobs to provide more details of the problem but being noobs they dont what to give unless we pose them with specifice questions. Veterans should know what info to provide but the noobs can be excused.

Actually, did we really try asking him the questions needed for us to give further insights on his problem. I think not. Only VWM, with his expertise on these matters, gave sound advice. While it may turn out that the op does not deserve to be assisted we should initially give him the benefit of the doubt instead of suspecting he has ulterior motives. The world will be a better place without all these sinister feelings.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well the way I see it, why should everyone jump to the OPs aid when they couldn't be bothered explaining their situation in any detail whatsoever?

It could well be a fraud issue, or they played restricted games etc....in which case they will get some guidance. We shouldn't have to play 20 questions to find out even the basic issue.

It's a matter of give and take IMO.

Vinyl -why would you go off about the ASA and all that when you dont have the slightest idea what really happened? The whole situation seems a but too simple to be true, and probably has something to do with multi accounts or how the comps were earned....but that's just a guess, which is all anyone can do.

Regular posters should realise that my policy is "innocent until proven otherwise". Betfair have a history of this kind of thing, so whilst this does not prove they were necessarily in the wrong here, it is further evidence that, on balance, that Betfair are using an arbitrary "management decision" in this case, rather than a breach of the terms. Further information needs to come from Betfair, but they no longer cooperate with CM, so mediation is out. Although the ASA can't do anything about getting the player paid, they CAN steadily turn the screw on the company to start "playing fair" under both the wording, and "the spirit" of UK consumer law. Complaining to the ASA ensures this issue is "on the record" as far as UK regulatory bodies are concerned, and this carries more weight than listings in internet "rogue pits", however well respected the website.

The UK government are already aware that this is a more general problem with sites manipulating their licensing arrangements so that they can have full access to the UK market, yet dodge having to fully obey UK consumer protection regulations by forcing players to take legal action in a foreign jurisdiction, or complain to a foreign regulatory authority.

If the OP is a fraud, it will eventually come out, not that it will elicit too much sympathy for Betfair

Because we should always, always give the player - especially a noob the benefit of the doubt. It was his first post, a simple "please give us more info" would have sufficed.

So in essence, yes everyone should throw their cynicism out the window and try to assist the player. It's not all about him - it's about what others can soak in from this thread. Other players with the same problem might be lurking here - seeing you jump on this guy's back - and say "hey, that's a forum I don't want to be a part of - they beat up noobies."

For all we know, this could be a "didn't play by the 'Spirit of the Bonus'" issue which is a typical Betfair stunt.

Do not beat up the newbies - welcome them with helpful advice - that's what the complaints section is all about.

It does not seem that bonus rules, even "spirit of" can apply as the OP bust out from the bonus, and won from the comp points. Betfair awarded those comps as part of the program, so it would be the rules of the comps program, not the bonus terms, that would apply.

The next step would be to look at the OP's actions against these rules, and see if there is any breach there that can lead to the voiding of winnings.

The OP didn't get any explanation from Betfair as to what rules were broken, his account was closed and all his money confiscated, including his DEPOSIT by the looks of it. If they are carrying over the bonus rules to the play with the comps, they should also be carrying the DEPOSIT along with it that initiated these rules, and at the very least refunding it, as any offence related to bonus play would have taken place during the play with the bonus. The OP could have deposited again, rather than use the comps, and Betfair seemed to be happy taking further money from the OP whilst he was losing because his "offence" went unpunished.

One thing tha ASA can do is require Betfair to no longer have misleading terms on their website, and whatever rule they used to confiscate the OP's money would have to be added to the terms of use. If it was simply "whim of management", this will cause problems for Betfair, as they would have to put it into words, and apply it to all players to show that things are "administered fairly".

Another useful avenue would be Trading Standards, who have a different set of powers at their disposal. They will often negotiate on the complainant's behalf, which can act as a strong laxative for corporate constipation (my own personal experience ).

Asking a local MP to look into the matter could also be useful, after all, it is MPs that will be debating and implementing any changes to the UK licensing arrangements for offshore casinos and sportsbooks.

 

[KasinoKing]

You know - even I'm getting fed up with this.
We have one vague post from the OP, then the thread goes shooting of on tangents in all directions and we have 20-something posts, but still no additional info from the OP to give us a clue what caused his issue. A few of the posts give good info, the rest are a waste of space.
CasinoMeister (not surprisingly) and Chuchu have it spot on in my opinion.
Lets get more info THEN give the player some advice.

KK

 

[Nifty29]

This is a forum, not the PAB service!! People talk and they should be given the room to do so without being made to feel uncomfortable.

Betfair is known to expect players to "play by the spirit of the bonus". That's why they are in the rogue pit. You, as a veteran member, should have realized that right away and perhaps mentioned this - or not. You chose to participate in this thread.

And yes you did insinuate the guy holding back info for a reason. If was one of the senior members, then yes, I would think that would be something to point out, but this is this guy's 1st or 2nd post.

He may be legit, he may not be, I think this is a call I or one of the moderators need to make - not you. One thing for sure, you have put him on the defensive and have probably driven him away from posting here again.

To say that the OP hasn't returned due to my post is unreasonable....how do you know it isn't down to a member tearing strips off another like LaHutti did? I would be more put off by that than anything I said. Also, how helpful do you think it was to have that picture posted as a reply - I think you'll find the OP already had a good reason not to add anything else....and notably that insulting post/pic was thanked.

If the OP is still reading......please come back and give us more information and don't be concerned about what others think I was saying.....I don't think you're a fraudster and never said that you were.

 

[asianeyes]

It should be noted that nifty's post was a response to asianeyes post. Asianeyes flew off the handle about an issue as if he had first hand knowledge that it is real. Nifty in essence just said hey slow down, we don't know yet. Thread was calm, even nifty's first post in it was just a lol to bryan's comment. It's clear he didn't start off trying to gun down the op. None of the joking was rude or harsh in anyway by the way. Not sure why asianeyes felt the need to go there.

Because i believe professionalism and accuracy and gathering all the facts first and then i will calculate and determine my decision.It must be the card counter in me?

Seriously though, my mother and father taught me to never make fun of anyone and always treat others as how you would want to be treated. Meister's right too! If newbies are treated in as a "laughing matter" for no concrete reason other than asking for advice, i too would most probably avoid such a forum and seek one that is open in objectivity until all facts are known and then make a determination.

Have a nice night everyone!

 

[asianeyes]

Regular posters should realise that my policy is "innocent until proven otherwise". Betfair have a history of this kind of thing, so whilst this does not prove they were necessarily in the wrong here, it is further evidence that, on balance, that Betfair are using an arbitrary "management decision" in this case, rather than a breach of the terms. Further information needs to come from Betfair, but they no longer cooperate with CM, so mediation is out. Although the ASA can't do anything about getting the player paid, they CAN steadily turn the screw on the company to start "playing fair" under both the wording, and "the spirit" of UK consumer law. Complaining to the ASA ensures this issue is "on the record" as far as UK regulatory bodies are concerned, and this carries more weight than listings in internet "rogue pits", however well respected the website.

The UK government are already aware that this is a more general problem with sites manipulating their licensing arrangements so that they can have full access to the UK market, yet dodge having to fully obey UK consumer protection regulations by forcing players to take legal action in a foreign jurisdiction, or complain to a foreign regulatory authority.

If the OP is a fraud, it will eventually come out, not that it will elicit too much sympathy for Betfair



It does not seem that bonus rules, even "spirit of" can apply as the OP bust out from the bonus, and won from the comp points. Betfair awarded those comps as part of the program, so it would be the rules of the comps program, not the bonus terms, that would apply.

The next step would be to look at the OP's actions against these rules, and see if there is any breach there that can lead to the voiding of winnings.

The OP didn't get any explanation from Betfair as to what rules were broken, his account was closed and all his money confiscated, including his DEPOSIT by the looks of it. If they are carrying over the bonus rules to the play with the comps, they should also be carrying the DEPOSIT along with it that initiated these rules, and at the very least refunding it, as any offence related to bonus play would have taken place during the play with the bonus. The OP could have deposited again, rather than use the comps, and Betfair seemed to be happy taking further money from the OP whilst he was losing because his "offence" went unpunished.

One thing tha ASA can do is require Betfair to no longer have misleading terms on their website, and whatever rule they used to confiscate the OP's money would have to be added to the terms of use. If it was simply "whim of management", this will cause problems for Betfair, as they would have to put it into words, and apply it to all players to show that things are "administered fairly".

Another useful avenue would be Trading Standards, who have a different set of powers at their disposal. They will often negotiate on the complainant's behalf, which can act as a strong laxative for corporate constipation (my own personal experience ).

Asking a local MP to look into the matter could also be useful, after all, it is MPs that will be debating and implementing any changes to the UK licensing arrangements for offshore casinos and sportsbooks.

Hi, VWM and all others. Here's a link from the Guardian News:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I hope it works?

The Guardian has published information relating to the MP's ties to ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council). Also ties to the Koch brothers and representatives of the gambling industry? <<<that's a very big?

Makes me breath a sigh of relief knowing i've returned to the B&M's.

 

[Cleveland]

Because i believe professionalism and accuracy and gathering all the facts first and then i will calculate and determine my decision.It must be the card counter in me?

Seriously though, my mother and father taught me to never make fun of anyone and always treat others as how you would want to be treated. Meister's right too! If newbies are treated in as a "laughing matter" for no concrete reason other than asking for advice, i too would most probably avoid such a forum and seek one that is open in objectivity until all facts are known and then make a determination.

Have a nice night everyone!

Only one poster made a joke....just ONE....Your first post implies that it was multiple people taking a piss at him and being rude. The ONE post that was a joke (with the picture) wasn't even rude. It was actually pretty truthful. But in the end it's only one. Maybe you can add daz to the "list" but really.....even his doesn't warrant it.

So I'm curious who are all the posters at the start of the thread that you deemed as taking a "a piss" at the op? and as such should be ashamed of themselves?

My post was in reference to the odd title change under the posters name, not making fun of him. I made reference to it in other threads as well. Then Bryan explained what it was for. While you were being taught not to make fun of people, did you perhaps learn that sometimes its ok to laugh and not make everything so serious?

Truth is the OP is lacking in detail and if he comes back to post or not the truth is likely nobody in this thread was the cause of his decision. Personally if I was trying to get 1200+ dollars back, as long as someone in the thread was being helpful I WOULD come back. Odd that he wouldn't...

 

[max1mike]

yet another thread turned to shit because of....

seems like lately, lots of threads turn shitty, quickly.

if you have nothing helpful to add, don't say anything.

is there a way to ignore a certain persons posts?, if so, i'd really like to know how.

/end derail

 

[Cleveland]

Click on their name hit ignore.

 

[max1mike]

thanks cleveland!

 

[Jasminebed]

I know nothing about the OP, but I do know some things about Betfair from belonging to this forum and reading posts.

I know they have behaved in such a manner to have gone from a respected venue to the rogue pit.

I know our usual advice to contact reps and then PAB is not useful.

I suspect that complaints to their licencing authority will not get this player paid if his claim is legit.

Registering a complaint with the ASA as Vinylweatherman suggested will not get the OP paid, but may prevent them from victimizing another player in future.

And talking about it here helps spread the word about the current state of Betfair and its client relationships.

If the OP is reading still, I hope you don't give up hope on Casinomeister.

If despite this bad experience you are going to gamble online, there is no where better to be.

 

[shenglu]

When its perhaps result operates does not deserve is assisted we to give at first, but is not suspected that his consideration has more remote motive him. All these had not felt sinisterly that the world will be a better place.

 

[Cleveland]

When its perhaps result operates does not deserve is assisted we to give at first, but is not suspected that his consideration has more remote motive him. All these had not felt sinisterly that the world will be a better place.