Bellavegas(Microgaming) won't pay 20K

[Dirk Diggler]

Good to see that Bryan has done the right thing and rogued these selective followers of t&cs.

I must say it's now even more blatantly obvious that these selectively invoked this underage rule after seeing they had no problems with the player having accounts at SIX of their casinos when they were an overall loser . Yeah, they could have been following protocol to let the player cashout a $5K win when they were an overall loser, and only envoke it when the player had a big win that put them in profit ...... then OJ Simpson may have actually NOT murdered his ex-wife. My personal opinion on both is exactly the same as the the US civil courts.

Bryan - I can accept your support of eCOGRA on this occasion (though not entirely agree with it), but the question that needs to be answered is how on earth can eCOGRA continue to 'approve' this group?

If they do after this fiasco (and lets not forget their regular other mishaps,
Refuse bonus after INVITING player/ Unclear T&Cs/ eCOGRA wrongly backing them!! - to name but a few) how can any player seriously rely on ecogra approved casinos?

 

[suzecat]

You covered pretty much all angles there. Still sucks for the player, but I suppose she can take some "comfort" from the fact that the casino emerges from this with its credibility and reputation around its ankles, and in as public a manner as is possible.

Kudos for that caruso! Timely topic as this is being tossed about here in the US (underage gambling). It would seem prudent to conclude this fiasco with the casinos taking a firm stand on their due diligence operation, unless of course, they are not that interested in cementing their ability to do business with US players. Kyl, et al., are using the underage card to promote their argument against internet gambling. Take that away and much of the steam evaporates. Just a thought.

 

[jetset]

QUOTE: i think grandprive have had this one coming to them for a long time. UNQUOTE

I'd have to agree with this. Over the past year they just seem to have gone to hell in a handbasket, and one can only wonder how they have dropped off so steeply.

 

[caruso]

Prive should certainly now be a strong candidate for the first ever eCOGRA delisting. Can they realistically be allowed to carry the seal at this point? Surely not.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Whatever happens from now on I believe this is a bit of a travesty for the whole industry.

eCOGRA are supposedly the regulator in the industry that are independent and going to bring it into the 20th (forget 21st by this behaviour) century. But they allow an approved member to confiscate $20K from an underage gambler and profit from it.....All that does is feed many players opinions that all they are is MGS/Cassava under another name.

I personally thought/hoped the industry was passed this, but while sh*t like this continues to happen I'm not surprised to see US politicians trying to ban online gambling. It can only fuel their argument that it is protecting US citizens.

 

[paul02085]

Thank you Casinomeister for doing the right thing. Ever since i first read about this situation i have felt it was a scam job by Grand Prive. Their refusal to give the money to a charity (a very fair way to settle this IMO) shows it was about the money all along.

I surely think Ecogra will delist Grand Prive and rightly so.

My main point is that Casinomeister has proven again that he stands for what is right, not what is "politically expedient" and this deepens my respect for him more than ever.

Thank you again Mr. Meister :notworthy

 

[amandajm]

Of course Bella are rogue. I agree.

Not based on non compliance of Nevada law(s) though. I wish you never went for this Bryan.

Ladbrokes apparently ok. (no us players accepted)
Con apparently rogue. (us players accepted)
32red apparently rogue. (changed their minds to accept us players)

Ladbrokes Restricted Territories
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We also reserve the right to request proof of residence from persons who wish to use credit cards issued in restricted territories to pay for transactions. It is the responsibility of each individual customer to ensure that they comply completely with their own local, national or state laws concerning betting, prior to them registering, or before placing a bet.

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Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Limited is fully licensed and regulated by the relevant laws of the Gaming Ordinance of Gibraltar for the purposes of operating an Internet Casino under the name: Casino-on-Net.

Such gambling, however, may not be legal in some jurisdictions under certain conditions, and in some jurisdictions may not be legal under any conditions. Please verify the laws in your jurisdiction before registering and read our terms and conditions carefully:

Age
No-one under the age of 18 or the age of legal consent for engaging in the activities included in the Service under the laws of any jurisdiction that applies to you, whichever is greater, may download the Software or use the Service under any circumstances and any person under the age of 18 or the age of legal consent for engaging in gambling activities under the laws of any jurisdiction that applies to you, whichever is greater....

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Internet gambling may not be legal in some jurisdictions. You understand and accept that the Company is unable to provide you with any legal advice or assurances and that you are solely responsible for verifying and complying with the law in any jurisdiction that applies to you before registering. The Service is directed only towards users who are not prohibited by the laws of any applicable jurisdiction from gambling on the Internet. The Company does not intend to enable you to contravene applicable law. You represent, warrant and agree to ensure that you comply with all applicable laws, statutes and regulations in relation to your use of the Software and the Service.

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Player Responsibility
Player Responsibility

Please check the laws surrounding Internet gaming in the jurisdiction in which you are located before you register and read carefully our terms and conditions. The placement of bets by minors is an offence. Please note all players must be at least 18 years of age. Providing false information relating to age, name and address may also constitute an offence.

I disagree with this can of worms being opened. Pay the girl or every casino must copy Ladbrokes.

It is not often I am less harsh than the Meister. Good to see, whether I agree or not.

I just don't want to see the Meister close for lack of adverts, but as it stands are'nt all the casinos promoted here as much in breach as Grand Prive?

 

[GemG7]

What I don't get is the previous cash out for $5000. The first time I cashed out at a Grand Prive Casino(CGB) it was August 2005 and I had to send them a copy of my drivers license and utility bill and that cashout was for a little more then $1000. Wouldn't they have asked Autumn12 for the same identification documents when she cashed out the previous $5000? Surely they would have seen she was underage and living in Nevada before she hit the 20K? Did they turn a blind eye then because it was under 10K?

 

[spearmaster]

it wouldnt be that expensive for them to add a few lines of code to the software to check the age and country, jeez i could write it in basic now

10 rem check age and country
20 if country$="usa" and age<21 then print "you are not old enough to play at this casino, so f*** off"

LOL - exactly something I would have done (that's BASIC before it became a bit more structured) But nowadays, I can also write that in structured BASIC, plus Perl, Javascript, PHP, SHTML, and of course VBScript to boot!

The whole point is - they didn't do it - whether from ignorance, forgetfulness, laziness, whatever - one thing for sure, they cannot claim that it was too hard or complicated to do.

 

[AussieDave]

Over the past year they just seem to have gone to hell in a handbasket, and one can only wonder how they have dropped off so steeply.

The downhill turn coincides with Marc's replacement.

The feasibility that the upper echelons within Grand Prive` are unaware of major problems that the left & right hands are causing begs strong opposition imo.


I'm sorry but this next part I'm sure this will ruffles a few people's feathers, if not bust the hinges on Pandora’s box.

For example eCogra, in my view it's a huge conflict of interest. MGS/CON funded its set-up costs and both CEO's (MGS & CON) sit on the board of Directors.

Whilst I acknowledge the high calibre of

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, as you can see their sole purpose is to gauge which software developers are accepted as members & what operators can display the eCogra Seal. Apart from Casino On Net the rest are all MG casinos.

Can you say "BIASED" boys and girls.

Hence I'm kind of lost understanding the obvious witch hunt that took place over SafeBet (RTG's excomm'd players protection seal). Yet here is eCogra sealing 99% of MG casinos, whilst on the other hand is doing nothing about a Sealed Casino that is on the verge of rogue status. Personally I don't see the difference between the two!


Visiting the following URL:

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eCogra states "The primary objective of eCOGRA is to provide player protection, by providing comfort to the player that the games are fair, the player will be paid timeously and treated fairly, and that the operators will behave responsibly. Players will be assured of this when they transact with online gaming sites displaying the eCOGRA Seal of Approval."

And Grand Prive` Group conforms to these guidelines

IMO the problem with this industry is the industry itself. Too many people in bed with each other, Casino Managers & so forth with fictional names like Sunny Daze (synonymous with a porn star) and covert PO Boxes as registered Company addresses, to name but a few of the major problems.

Instead of the hat being passed around the industry to collect money for its yearly slush fund for lobbyists, why on earth it does not subscribing to the thought that prevention is far better than its cure, is yet another reasons imo this industry keeps shooting itself in the foot.

Add the latest string of non payment issues, the number of rogue operators still active still robbing American's (and others) blind, it really does go from bad to worse.

Is it really any wonder then why the US Government and others want to ban this industry.

I wanted add of course there are exceptions, take 32Red and others who offer a stella performance and operate way above expectations.

 

[hit16]

Grand Prive Group-- not like a real casino

Hey Bryan, hope you're doing well. Just wanted to report that my son, 19 and in the navy, was underage at a vegas casino, and all they did, when they caught him, was to usher him out with his bucks in a cup-- it's illegal here in the USA to allow someone to make a bet, then deny their winnings, regardless of any and all other circumstances (too drunk, too young, etc.).

Grand Prive has been rogue in their behavior ever since I've known them. I grant them the "blow me" award (even if I am a gal).

 

[autumn12]

Sorry for the rant but here goes

Bryan I am glad that you didn't just let this issue die. And I commend you for punishing Grand Prive for their behavior.

You probably experienced the same treatment from them via e-mail that I did.

Bella Vegas absolutely should not carry the Ecogra seal of approval. And the blacklisting of Bella Vegas is actaully the blacklisting of Ecogra, because Ecogra is approving and recommending a rogue casino.

I will tell you one thing, after playing at Bella Vegas for a couple of months on a weekly basis and getting paid whenever I won I had no idea that I was not a legitmiate player. When I registered there, like in many other online casinos, I always looked for the 18+ symbol. Once I saw this symbol I figured that I was ok to register and play there. And I didn't have any problems using my correct date of birth and home city and state.

Does anyone out there really think that Bella Vegas cares about the age of 21? I was not 10 years old or 13 years old, I was 19---which is more than 18if I'm doing the math right. And it's 18+ at Bella Vegas. Unless you win and then they don't want to pay you!

Below is an e-mail sent from Bella Vegas


Dear,

You may or may not be aware of this, all the Casino accounts have been locked.

It has come to our Attention that you are under the age of 21 years and that you too are using a foreign currency to play with at our casino.

Below is a list of all the accounts with our group of casinos. The amounts used to Purchase and the outstanding amounts that have already been returned to the Neteller account used to fund the Casino accounts. The total amount used to purchase has already been returned to you. So there is no out standing amounts that are due to you!

Yours Faithfully

Relations Manager


Nice, huh? Do you see how they also used the 'wrong currency' reason as a reason not to pay me? And when I showed them that nowhere in the terms did it say this, then they zeroed in on the age issue. It is crystal clear that they were looking for a reason, any reason, not to pay me.

Four times a week they sent me e-mail to come and play, and I did. And look what I got. Nothing.

Thank you again Bryan.

 

[GemG7]

Autumn did Bella or any of the other GP casinos ask you for ID on any of your cashouts before hitting the 20K? Is there a reason why you were playing in foreign currency?

 

[autumn12]

To answer the questions trkwak...Bella Vegas didn't ask for my ID until I made the large cash out. And the reason for the pounds well my momma didn't raise no dummy becasue pounds is worth more than dollars (in bonus money).

 

[suzecat]

To answer the questions trkwak...Bella Vegas didn't ask for my ID until I made the large cash out. And the reason for the pounds well my momma didn't raise no dummy becasue pounds is worth more than dollars (in bonus money).

Just for my own curiosity autumn12, I was wondering how you were able to purchase/play in pounds when you live in the US?

 

[winbig]

The amounts used to Purchase and the outstanding amounts that have already been returned to the Neteller account used to fund the Casino accounts. The total amount used to purchase has already been returned to you. So there is no out standing amounts that are due to you!

Sounds like a politician....3 sentences of gibberish to come to 1 point.

 

[LisasLuck]

Thanks Bryan... You did the right thing... way to go.




This is from the Grand Prive site.....responsible gaming ......ha!

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[suzecat]

To answer the questions trkwak...Bella Vegas didn't ask for my ID until I made the large cash out. And the reason for the pounds well my momma didn't raise no dummy becasue pounds is worth more than dollars (in bonus money).

Autumn12, I guess you did not read/understand the general terms and conditions on the Bella Vegas website, to wit:


The casino is limited to individuals of legal age of majority in their jurisdiction (the "Player"). You cannot play under any circumstances if you are not at least eighteen years of age, however, should the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction be older than eighteen – you shall abide by those restrictions.

Any and all play by any ineligible person shall be voided, including any winnings accruing to any ineligible person.

Players residing in the United States of America may only wager in US dollar.

I am done with this thread and hope it goes away.........

 

[AussieDave]

Just for my own curiosity autumn12, I was wondering how you were able to purchase/play in pounds when you live in the US?

That's like asking me how I can play in US$. I don't understand your reasoning here suzecat? Unless it's based on the T&C's of "Players residing in the United States of America may only wager in US dollar.".

Which really is a farse as the casino accepted 17 deposits and all corrisponding wagers placed.

What I do understand is that autumn12 has suplied Grand Prive` Group (Belle Vegas) with proof of ID docs and signed up with factual information. She's made 4 withdrawls of which I'm also sure she'd have supplied verifaction for @ least the $5K one too. GPG accepted her wagers they should pay her, no if's not buts...

(Suzecat my appologies if I mis-interprited your post)

 

[autumn12]

When I played there they did not have a term that Pounds are not allowed for US players

They added it after I played , I think couple of months after.

That was number one.

Number two, they never asked for documents for my $5000 cashout.

The only time they asked for document was for the 20,000K

I registered with my real and correct date of birth from the beginning

 

[autumn12]

"Any and all play by any ineligible person shall be voided, including any winnings accruing to any ineligible person."

And also the above term was only added after my incident at Bella Vegas...

 

[Let_It_Ride]

That's like asking me how I can play in US$. I don't understand your reasoning here suzecat? Unless it's based on the T&C's of "Players residing in the United States of America may only wager in US dollar.".

I understood the question how do you purchase chips in pounds when living in the US where I assume you have a card/account with a US bank.
Maybe autumn12 has a bank account in the UK.

Agreed pounds are worth more than dollars but you lose out on the exchange rate and also stand to lose more when playing a 1000 instead of $1000 and as we all know in the long run we all lose

Interesting question about which currency casinos prefer you to use, is it the currency of the country where you live or the currency of the country of your bank? Any one any thoughts on this?

Let It Ride

 

[LisasLuck]

"Any and all play by any ineligible person shall be voided, including any winnings accruing to any ineligible person."

And also the above term was only added after my incident at Bella Vegas...

I figured that ...

 

[caruso]

I am done with this thread and hope it goes away.........

Interesting comment.

I hope the reverse.

 

[Pinababy69]

I am done with this thread and hope it goes away.........

God Suzecat...Amen to that!!!! So sick of seeing it and reading about it.

One thing I gotta say is that I never thought I'd see the day where a Micro (and especially one with an ECogra Seal) would be rogued. Not even sure if I totally agree with it, but I see the point about allowing her to play at six different properties without catching her age before. My only problem with this whole scenario is that I doubt there is one single casino on the internet that somehow doesn't have at least one underage player. Fact is that you don't get "carded" sometimes UNTIL you win big. I've had cashouts of $500, $1000, even up to $7,000 and never been asked for one piece of ID, not even so much as a phone call to verify that I'm not a 12-year old (I'm 42). All too often the only time ID gets asked for is when a progressive gets hit or an amount say over 10K. I'm not saying that's right, just saying that I think it's very common practice is all.

 

[winbig]

Agreed pounds are worth more than dollars but you lose out on the exchange rate

She had said above she only played in pounds to take advantage of the bonuses. Hell, they could have voided the winnings claiming "bonus abuse" and avoided half this scandal.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but don't you wish you would have just kept cashing out @ $5,000 a pop and left the remainder in there?

 

[LisasLuck]

She had said above she only played in pounds to take advantage of the bonuses. Hell, they could have voided the winnings claiming "bonus abuse" and avoided half this scandal.

Yep Yep Yep

 

[caruso]

No they couldn't. They couldn't possibly get away with that.

I surely think Ecogra will delist Grand Prive and rightly so.

I emailed Da Boss about this, and sadly, it's not going to happen.

Although Bryan Bailey's roguing of Grand Prive - correct and supported 101% my end - does not represent the emergence of any new information on the matter, I believe that the group's gross irresponsibility in accepting this player for SO long puts them in violation of eCOGRA's terms. I cannot accept that this behaviour is not grounds to lose the seal of approval of an ostensible regulatory body. I simply cannot accept this. How can you "play it safe" with a casino with a record like this?

 

[winbig]

Why doesn't MG (or other s/w providers for that matter) simply put code in that compares a person's age compared to their country? USA = 21, all others = 18. As it was said earlier, it wouldn't be hard to do at all. This would cover everyone's ass.

 

[love2vegas]

GRAND PRIVE

Just received a promo from the GRAND PRIVE group! Funny thing, the title in the email was: WE PITY THE FOOLS!!!

 

[Linus]

Any and all play by any ineligible person shall be voided, including any winnings accruing to any ineligible person.

This restriction applies equally to most - if not all - American players.

Gambling is generally prohibited under state law, not federal law. And most states generally prohibit gambling, except under limited and specific exceptions. No state offers an exception for online gambling. Thus, you are almost certainly prohibited from gambling online, if you live in America.

To the extent that Autumn was violating the laws of Nevada, she's in no different position from any American player.

It is true that the Federal law that purports to regulate gambling in America is ambiguous (the Justice Dept. has said it does apply to online gambling, at least one court has expressed an opposite view).

But it's the states that are primarily responsible for regulating gambling, in America. And to my knowledge, no state allows it.

If it's the casino's position that gambling illegally voids the player's winnings, that applies to all American players, not just Autumn.

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[suzecat]

This restriction applies equally to most - if not all - American players.

Gambling is generally prohibited under state law, not federal law. And most states generally prohibit gambling, except under limited and specific exceptions. No state offers an exception for online gambling. Thus, you are almost certainly prohibited from gambling online, if you live in America.

To the extent that Autumn was violating the laws of Nevada, she's in no different position from any American player.

It is true that the Federal law that purports to regulate gambling in America is ambiguous (the Justice Dept. has said it does apply to online gambling, at least one court has expressed an opposite view).

But it's the states that are primarily responsible for regulating gambling, in America. And to my knowledge, no state allows it.

If it's the casino's position that gambling illegally voids the player's winnings, that applies to all American players, not just Autumn.

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Thanks Linus! I checked out the above site and find that as I reside in California, I am cool to play!

Did you read the summary table before you submitted your post? Your statement that "no state allows it" is patently false. Although in the Autumn case, since Nevada DOES expressly prohibit internet gambling, this player has committed a felony under Nevada law.

 

[winbig]

But it's the states that are primarily responsible for regulating gambling, in America. And to my knowledge, no state allows it.

But not all states disallow it

 

[Linus]

Thanks Linus! I checked out the above site and find that as I reside in California, I am cool to play!

Did you read the summary table before you submitted your post? Your statement that "no state allows it" is patently false. Although in the Autumn case, since Nevada DOES expressly prohibit internet gambling, this player has committed a felony under Nevada law.

You're confusing "specifically prohibiting online gambling" with generally prohibiting gambling.

While not all states have a specific law criminalizing online gambling, that doesn't make it legal. The state's general law prohibiting gambling would still apply.

Take a look at the chart again. Next to CA you'll see the word "misdemeanor." A misdemeanor is (generally) a crime that's punishable for less than one year.

The other states are states that have laws specifically prohibiting internet gambling, in addition to general gambling laws.

Here's a section from the CA Penal Code:

Penal Code Sec. 330.

Every person who deals, plays, or carries on, opens, or causes to be opened, or who conducts, either as owner or employee, whether for hire or not, any game of faro, monte, roulette, lansquenet, rouge et noire, rondo, tan, fan-tan, seven-and-a-half, twenty-one, hokey-pokey, or any banking or percentage game played with cards, dice, or any device, for money, checks, credit, or other representative of value, and every person who plays or bets at or against any of those prohibited games, is guilty of a misdemeanor, and shall be punishable by a fine not less than one hundred dollars ($100) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, or by both the fine and imprisonment.

(Note, there are other sections that might apply, in addtion to this one.)

Think of it this way. Suppose it's illegal to steal in your state. That your state doesn't also specifically prohibit stealing through the internet, doesn't make that form of stealing ok.

 

[Linus]

But not all states disallow it

Yes, they do.

All states generally prohibit gambling, with specific exceptions. (Poker, bingo, Indian reservations, the state lottery, or whatever the state allows.)

While not all states specifically prohibit internet gambling, no state allows it.

(South Dakota, at one time, was considering becoming the first.)

Without a specific exception, the state's general law against gambling applies.

Again, as an example, if your state has a law against stealing, the fact that it doesn't specifically prohibit stealing apples, doesn't make stealing apples ok. That's true even if another state does have a law specifically about stealing apples.



Anyway, I'm not arguing people should give up gambling, just because it's illegal. (I haven't.)

What I'm saying is that the technicality the casino is using to take Autumn's winnings applies to all American players. Not just her.

 

[AceMan76]

I agree with most of Linus' analysis on gambling statutes. I'm waiting for a casino to deny winnings based on the fact the state where the player resides has a general anti-gambling statute. I think it is very likely to happen. Or on the flip side, for local authorites to prosecute or confiscate the winnings of a big winner that is publicized. It will happen eventually. If you live in a state with a general anti-gambling statute, and most of us do, beware.

 

[suzecat]

Yes, they do.

All states generally prohibit gambling, with specific exceptions. (Poker, bingo, Indian reservations, the state lottery, or whatever the state allows.)

While not all states specifically prohibit internet gambling, no state allows it.

(South Dakota, at one time, was considering becoming the first.)

Without a specific exception, the state's general law against gambling applies.

Again, as an example, if your state has a law against stealing, the fact that it doesn't specifically prohibit stealing apples, doesn't make stealing apples ok. That's true even if another state does have a law specifically about stealing apples.



Anyway, I'm not arguing people should give up gambling, just because it's illegal. (I haven't.)

What I'm saying is that the technicality the casino is using to take Autumn's winnings applies to all American players. Not just her.

For the most part, Linus, your arguments fall into a gray area that is being tossed about by the Congress/Senate. Until such time, if ever, these esteemed persons change the law to specifically exclude online gambling for all States in the Union, it is NOT an enforceable ban. That being said, the State of Nevada where Autumn resides HAS specifically excluded online gambling for all persons who reside there. Add to that her underage status for gambling in Nevada and there falls the crux of my previous argument.

And as I have said many times before, I am a baby boomer and as such don't have a problem being labeled a rebel (and committing misdemeanor offenses as needed). Call me crazy, just don't call me late to the tables.........

 

[Linus]

No, this has nothing to do with the Congress or the Senate. This has to do with state law. And it's no more illegal for Autumn to gamble in Nevada than it is for you to gamble in CA. If they can take her winnings, they can take yours.

 

[winbig]

No, this has nothing to do with the Congress or the Senate. This has to do with state law. And it's no more illegal for Autumn to gamble in Nevada than it is for you to gamble in CA. If they can take her winnings, they can take yours.

Right now, even for states, this is a gray area. If it was illegal to gamble online right now, why would some states have laws specifically saying it? Technically if you live in a state that doesn't have such a law, then it's fine.

Even if the casinos wanted to take winnings (before the federal law passes, if it does) by saying it's illegal in your state, they wouldn't. If they were to do so it'd cut their profits in half.

If they truely wanted to bypass all this BS, they'll do like some casinos already are doing - not allowing ANY players from the USA.

 

[sdaddy]

Linus,

You are really making some solid arguments here. You get to what has been my biggest problem with Bella Vegas actions all along: that they chose to SELECTIVELY apply anti-gambling restrictions on players in the United States and in a very self-serving way.

 

[sdaddy]

Linus,

You are really making some solid arguments here. You get to what has been my biggest problem with Bella Vegas actions all along: that they chose to selectively apply anti-gambling restrictions on players in the United States and in a very self-serving way.

 

[suzecat]

No, this has nothing to do with the Congress or the Senate. This has to do with state law. And it's no more illegal for Autumn to gamble in Nevada than it is for you to gamble in CA. If they can take her winnings, they can take yours.

Linus I guess you haven't been following the other threads concerning the federal government's attempts to ban online gambling. The BIG difference in online gambling in California vs. Nevada is that in California it is a misdemeanor and in Nevada it is a felony. BIG DIFFERENCE. These legalities aside, you have not addressed the issue of her being an underage gambler as recognized by the State of Nevada.

 

[winbig]

Linus,

You are really making some solid arguments here. You get to what has been my biggest problem with Bella Vegas actions all along: that they chose to selectively apply anti-gambling restrictions on players in the United States and in a very self-serving way.

I give up Yes they did selectively apply rules to her, but only when they found out she was underage.

 

[sdaddy]

I give up Yes they did selectively apply rules to her, but only when they found out she was underage.

That's true. In fairness I need to acknowledge that the rule in question was in their T&Cs, so they were technically permitted to apply it, provided it was done in a responsible way.

Nevertheless, I just don't see the basis for adopting some, but not all, of a particular state or country's anti-gambing statues. In other words, if a casino is saying they are obligated to respect Nevada's underage law, then to be consistent they would also have to follow Nevada's general ban on online gambing.

 

[suzecat]

That's true. In fairness I need to acknowledge that the rule in question was in their T&Cs, so they were technically permitted to apply it, provided it was done in a responsible way.

Nevertheless, I just don't see the basis for adopting some, but not all, of a particular state or country's anti-gambing statues. In other words, if a casino is saying they are obligated to respect Nevada's underage law, then to be consistent they would also have to follow Nevada's general ban on online gambing.

Once the underage law was applied, it made moot the anti-gambling statute of Nevada. I believe that Nevada (as a state of the USA) lacks standing to litigate a foreign held enterprise. Only the US federal government has the requisite standing to sue and in order to do so, the federal ban on internet gambling would have to be in place. As there is no federal ban in place, there is no standing to sue offshore casino operations.

 

[amandajm]

Even more reason to pay the gambler.

All this industry stuff is for the casino operators. That ain't my concern.

If they don't like the job, don't do it.

 

[winbig]

I think we're all beating a dead horse here. Can we all just agree to disagree?

 

[ChristopherB]

from suzecat:

"The BIG difference in online gambling in California vs. Nevada is that in California it is a misdemeanor and in Nevada it is a felony."

You are 100% incorrect, suzecat. It is not a felony in Nevada, it's a misdemeanor. You should really get your facts straight before you post.

 

[suzecat]

from suzecat:



You are 100% incorrect, suzecat. It is not a felony in Nevada, it's a misdemeanor. You should really get your facts straight before you post.

Here are the facts upon which I relied:


NRS 465.088 Penalties for violation of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive.

1. A person who violates any provision of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive, is guilty of a category B felony and shall be punished:

(a) For the first offense, by imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 6 years, or by a fine of not more than $10,000, or by both fine and imprisonment.

(b) For a second or subsequent violation of any of these provisions, by imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 6 years, and may be further punished by a fine of not more than $10,000. The court shall not suspend a sentence of imprisonment imposed pursuant to this paragraph, or grant probation to the person convicted.

2. A person who attempts, or two or more persons who conspire, to violate any provision of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive, each is guilty of a category B felony and shall be punished by imposing the penalty provided in subsection 1 for the completed crime, whether or not he personally played any gambling game or used any prohibited device.

NRS 465.091 Medium of communication defined.

As used in NRS 465.091 to 465.094, inclusive, unless the context otherwise requires, medium of communication includes, but is not limited to, mail, telephone, television, telegraph, facsimile, cable, wire, the Internet or any other similar medium.

 

[Linus]

Once the underage law was applied, it made moot the anti-gambling statute of Nevada. I believe that Nevada (as a state of the USA) lacks standing to litigate a foreign held enterprise. Only the US federal government has the requisite standing to sue and in order to do so, the federal ban on internet gambling would have to be in place. As there is no federal ban in place, there is no standing to sue offshore casino operations.

Well, it's true that it's difficult to sue foreign corporations in places like Gibraltar and Belize. Courts need jurisdiction, in order to hear a lawsuit. As a general rule, courts in one country don't have jurisdiction over another country.

Also, since internet gambling is illegal in the US, no US court would hear a lawsuit over an activity that was illegal in the first place.

Finally, even if you did somehow get a court to rule in your favor, you wouldn't be able to collect on any judgment, unless the casino had assets that you could seize. Since the casinos are careful not to keep assets in the US, that would be impossible.


The casino industry runs on trust.


The only they have to fear is that people will find out that their money isn't safe with them, and that new players won't keep depositing.

Even though Autumn has no effective recourse, at least now other players have been warned.

BellaVegas was happy to advertise for 18 year-olds. They were happy to take Autumn's money, even after she told them she was 19. They're happy to take Americans' money, even though - according to their Terms and Conditions - no American is eligible to play there.

They only became unhappy when Autumn won money at their casino.

What's to stop them from becoming unhappy if you or I win money there?

Apparently, nothing.


"Nicky's methods of betting weren't scientific, but they worked. When he won, he collected. When he lost, he told the bookies to go f... themselves. I mean, what were they going to do, muscle Nicky? Nicky was the muscle."

--Robert Deniro, Casino