Ask me anything (about slots)!

[Smithyy]

Yes and no result unfortunately! Tried to capture it from Chrome browse using recording tool, and while the quality is actually very good, it just glitches out ever 5 seconds or so, so runs it essentially!

 

[Smithyy]

Which game? Quickspin don't appear to package up their MP3's in any way. You can just sniff the traffic and download the MP3.

Really?! It's Northern Sky!

 

[The Reel Story]

Really?! It's Northern Sky!

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

There you go (LMK if you can't access that, as it may need you to be logged in at Casumo. I'll download it for you otherwise)

 

[Smithyy]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

There you go (LMK if you can't access that, as it may need you to be logged in at Casumo. I'll download it for you otherwise)

You are an absolute legend!! Thank you so much!!!!!!

 

[The Reel Story]

You are an absolute legend!! Thank you so much!!!!!!

Not a problem

 

[Smithyy]

Not a problem

So, now I'm curious. How did you manage to do that? I am very illiterate when it comes to techy-stuff lol, so I had tried to view page source/inspect frame source and search for an mp3 but couldn't see anything!

 

[The Reel Story]

In chrome, go to the menu > more tools > developer tools.

Go to the network tab (that will show every request in and out of your browser tab).

In the filter, put 'MP3'.

Load the game and you'll see all of the MP3's listed. Right click on the one you want and copy link address.

Paste that link into a browser window, then download from the player.

 

[Smithyy]

In chrome, go to the menu > more tools > developer tools.

Go to the network tab (that will show every request in and out of your browser tab).

In the filter, put 'MP3'.

Load the game and you'll see all of the MP3's listed. Right click on the one you want and copy link address.

Paste that link into a browser window, then download from the player.

That's really cool! Thank you for explaining that

 

[The Reel Story]

That's really cool! Thank you for explaining that

Also not a problem

 

[Smithyy]

Also not a problem

OK, last question I promise! Haha

I tried to do it for this game to:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

But I only see one mp3 file there, one random sound effect. So does that mean they build their game differently, like the mp3s can't be accessed?

 

[trancemonkey]

But you can pop it first bee when its full tho right?
Im sure ive seen bandit fill it on 20p and pop it on €10 or whatever, and get it within his first 100 autos.

Quick question.. can you ever pop it when it isnt full?

Also I'm pretty sure I now know how it works... if you can answer the question above then I'll be pretty certain how it works.

Dave

 

[The Reel Story]

Quick question.. can you ever pop it when it isnt full?

Also I'm pretty sure I now know how it works... if you can answer the question above then I'll be pretty certain how it works.

Dave

No, has to fill first before the swarm bonus can activate.

 

[trancemonkey]

OK, last question I promise! Haha

I tried to do it for this game to:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

But I only see one mp3 file there, one random sound effect. So does that mean they build their game differently, like the mp3s can't be accessed?

Yeah, they may well package their sounds in to single file.

And thanks @The Reel Story for helping out

 

[The Reel Story]

OK, last question I promise! Haha

I tried to do it for this game to:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

But I only see one mp3 file there, one random sound effect. So does that mean they build their game differently, like the mp3s can't be accessed?

Appears Net Ent use .ogg files. Same method should work, just put OGG in the filter.

Once you've downloaded it, depending on the player you have installed, you may need to find a way of converting it to MP3 (download Audacity or find an online converter or something). It may just play fine though.

Think it's this one

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Smithyy]

Quick question.. can you ever pop it when it isnt full?

Also I'm pretty sure I now know how it works... if you can answer the question above then I'll be pretty certain how it works.

Dave

Yes, a random base-game feature can award an instant swarm bonus

 

[The Reel Story]

Yes, a random base-game feature can award an instant swarm bonus

Ooo, really? I didn't know that! You learn something every day

 

[Smithyy]

Appears Net Ent use .ogg files. Same method should work, just put OGG in the filter.

Once you've downloaded it, depending on the player you have installed, you may need to find a way of converting it to MP3 (download Audacity or find an online converter or something). It may just play fine though.

Think it's this one

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Again thank you! Yes I have a audio convertor so will use that. Thank you again

 

[Smithyy]

Ooo, really? I didn't know that! You learn something every day

Which is why, if you build it on min stake, it can sometimes screw you over. Say you're level 4 and trigger the swarm bonus on min stake - not what you're hoping for!

 

[trancemonkey]

No, has to fill first before the swarm bonus can activate.

Ok, so the swarm mode can happen at any time (either by the swarm exploding or being awarded via the pick feature)...

My guess, and I have done games with similar features, is that the collection mechanic is not a real collection.

If you play games like Duo Fu Duo Cai or 88 Fortunes or similar games then you have a gold pot or similar which fills up as you get wilds. However this does not mean your chances are increasing of getting that feature.. merely that it has been a while since it was last won. It's a visual tease.

The reason the stake likely doesn't matter on this game is for the same reason... stake makes no difference. You likely fill it at the same rate on all stakes, and the chance of the feature being won is the same regardless of stake once you fill it. Therefore changing stake at any point makes no difference at all statistically. It probably uses a random chance on every spin as to whether to award it.

Hive not full... random feature awards it
Hive full... hive pops.

 

[The Reel Story]

Ok, so the swarm mode can happen at any time (either by the swarm exploding or being awarded via the pick feature)...

My guess, and I have done games with similar features, is that the collection mechanic is not a real collection.

If you play games like Duo Fu Duo Cai or 88 Fortunes or similar games then you have a gold pot or similar which fills up as you get wilds. However this does not mean your chances are increasing of getting that feature.. merely that it has been a while since it was last won. It's a visual tease.

The reason the stake likely doesn't matter on this game is for the same reason... stake makes no difference. You likely fill it at the same rate on all stakes, and the chance of the feature being won is the same regardless of stake once you fill it. Therefore changing stake at any point makes no difference at all statistically. It probably uses a random chance on every spin as to whether to award it.

Hive not full... random feature awards it
Hive full... hive pops.

Now knowing that a random feature can award it, I'd agree 100%. I always maintained it was mainly a psychological mechanic It's a good one though! Everyone likes to think they are gaming the system.

 

[Smithyy]

Ok, so the swarm mode can happen at any time (either by the swarm exploding or being awarded via the pick feature)...

My guess, and I have done games with similar features, is that the collection mechanic is not a real collection.

If you play games like Duo Fu Duo Cai or 88 Fortunes or similar games then you have a gold pot or similar which fills up as you get wilds. However this does not mean your chances are increasing of getting that feature.. merely that it has been a while since it was last won. It's a visual tease.

The reason the stake likely doesn't matter on this game is for the same reason... stake makes no difference. You likely fill it at the same rate on all stakes, and the chance of the feature being won is the same regardless of stake once you fill it. Therefore changing stake at any point makes no difference at all statistically. It probably uses a random chance on every spin as to whether to award it.

Hive not full... random feature awards it
Hive full... hive pops.

While I'm here may as well chime in on this too!

Obvioulsy I haven't done any actual resarch on this - but I've watched quite a few YouTube videos of people building the hive on min stake and then getting swarm mode on £2-ish stakes. But, what I've noticed is that wildines and other 5-kind combos seem to pay varying amounts. I.e. one stream hits a wildline in the hive bonus at £2 and it pays differently to another streaming also in the hive bonus at £2 - wouldn't this indicate that it IS done by factoring in your previous stake?

Again, no concrete examples to hand, but it's something I noticed when watching these vids

 

[Siohmy]

While I'm here may as well chime in on this too!

Obvioulsy I haven't done any actual resarch on this - but I've watched quite a few YouTube videos of people building the hive on min stake and then getting swarm mode on £2-ish stakes. But, what I've noticed is that wildines and other 5-kind combos seem to pay varying amounts. I.e. one stream hits a wildline in the hive bonus at £2 and it pays differently to another streaming also in the hive bonus at £2 - wouldn't this indicate that it IS done by factoring in your previous stake?

Again, no concrete examples to hand, but it's something I noticed when watching these vids

Interesting thought and should be easy enough to cross check with the pay table. The fact you can increase the stake and keep the collection trail combined with the fact Play’n Go have perhaps the dodgiest mechanic going when it comes to what is being displayed bears little reality in what is happening doesn’t help. Bottom line is that you cannot manipulate the slot no matter how much you think you can or how much streamers will have you believe.

If it were BTG I’d suggest the reels change the frequency of the symbol based on stake, or segregate the collection per stake which is what they actually do. As it’s Play’n Go what is being displayed is pretty much made up anyway so bears no relation to what you think is happening.

 

[The Reel Story]

Interesting thought and should be easy enough to cross check with the pay table. The fact you can increase the stake and keep the collection trail combined with the fact Play’n Go have perhaps the dodgiest mechanic going when it comes to what is being displayed bears little reality in what is happening doesn’t help. Bottom line is that you cannot manipulate the slot no matter how much you think you can or how much streamers will have you believe.

If it were BTG I’d suggest the reels change the frequency of the symbol based on stake, or segregate the collection per stake which is what they actually do. As it’s Play’n Go what is being displayed is pretty much made up anyway so bears no relation to what you think is happening.

You cannot change symbol frequency based on stake, thats illegal

 

[kidgloves]

If you play games like Duo Fu Duo Cai or 88 Fortunes or similar games then you have a gold pot or similar which fills up as you get wilds. However this does not mean your chances are increasing of getting that feature.. merely that it has been a while since it was last won. It's a visual tease.

The reason the stake likely doesn't matter on this game is for the same reason... stake makes no difference. You likely fill it at the same rate on all stakes, and the chance of the feature being won is the same regardless of stake once you fill it. Therefore changing stake at any point makes no difference at all statistically. It probably uses a random chance on every spin as to whether to award it.

Hive not full... random feature awards it
Hive full... hive pops.

I've always wondered about 88 Fortunes - I'm not sure about the fact stake makes no difference. You have to factor in that the pot values on 88 fortunes don't change, regardless of stake. You can pay on 0.18 denom a spin or 1.88 a spin and the pot values don't change. If this were the case, everybody would be punting on min stake for an equal chance to trigger a pot. Even the mini at 25.00 is many time 0.18 stake as a win ratio. I'd say it's more likely that the pot trigger chance is reduced according to stake - lower chance of trigger as you play a lower stake.
When this slot was first released in the UK bookies there were people playing it on the lowest stake to see if there was any advantage but nothing conclusive has been found, other than it takes a hell of a lot longer to trigger the pots.

Edit: I just realised you were referring to Swarm so my bad. Although, I'd welcome views on pot trigger chances for 88 Fortunes,,,

 

[joerdj]

You cannot change symbol frequency based on stake, thats illegal

Im wondering how some of those Bally (I think)Games do that, whereas a higher stake >2 euro nets you a higher RTP. Only way I can think of is changing certain symbol frequency's or different reel bands...

 

[snorky510238]

I have never played wild swarm and I can’t be bothered to read back through the whole thread so if this has been mentioned I apologise.

Regarding wins paying different amounts, there are some games that take an average of the stake you used to trigger the feature. I think Vikings go wild or beserk is one that does that.

It makes sense as I can’t see how a provider could let you build it up on a small stake and when it’s close to bursting switch to a larger stake and play the bonus out on that stake.

Everyone would do it obviously if there was a gain to be had.

 

[slotter999]

You cannot change symbol frequency based on stake, thats illegal

I don't think that's true for the UK jurisdiction.

It's permissible to create slots where changing the stake will increase / decrease the RTP accordingly. The regulatory requirement just states it needs to be included in the help file. How they achieve that difference is not prescribed so there is nothing to say that cannot increase symbol frequencies or add weighting to outcomes etc.

There is also nothing to prevent a game from implementing different reel strips based on stake level and not documenting that in the help file if it achieved exactly the same RTP. I'm not aware of any provider doing this but the laws permit it.

I can only speak for UK regulations as these are the ones I'm familiar with.

Cheers

 

[joerdj]

Does the Shadow Order work on the same principle as Jammin Jars, cause they also mention "random wilds" which isnt really the case

 

[trancemonkey]

You cannot change symbol frequency based on stake, thats illegal

Of course you can... you can have different maths for every stake if you want. On games with progressives you HAVE TO have different maths for each stake

 

[lotusch]

It makes sense as I can’t see how a provider could let you build it up on a small stake and when it’s close to bursting switch to a larger stake and play the bonus out on that stake.

I think they designed that slot pretty clever because you can build up on low stakes and then increase your bet, that is true.
But there are 2 dangerous aspects to that:

1. It can still take several hundreds of spins to trigger the swarm.
2. It does not guarantee a massive win.

I played it out twice and the first time it popped pretty fast but never changed stake, was playing 60c spins all the way and the swarm featured paid me 900x.
Second time I build up on lowest bet and then when it was about to trigger the swarm I upped to €1.00 spins, it then took me like 300 odd spins to trigger and it only paid me 63x if I remember correctly.

So I am sure Push Games knew rightly when they designed and programmed this slot.

Also seen videos on Youtube where people were building up on minimum stake, then change to 4 euro bets and ending up losing 400x stake before the swarm triggered, ending up with 40-60x stake win.

 

[The Reel Story]

Of course you can... you can have different maths for every stake if you want. On games with progressives you HAVE TO have different maths for each stake

Really? As long as RTP is maintained? That's not true of any game we ever did Stakes were completely configurable by the Casino's, so modding maths per stake would have been super hard (and I was sure was not allowed). For progressives, it was more like buying lottery tickets. Minimum denomination bought you 1 'ticket' so if you played on a higher stake, you just got more 'tickets' and thus, more chance to win the jackpot. I guess this is different maths to some degree, but not requiring a change to symbol frequencies or anything like that.

Interesting to know!

 

[trancemonkey]

Really? As long as RTP is maintained? That's not true of any game we ever did Stakes were completely configurable by the Casino's, so modding maths per stake would have been super hard (and I was sure was not allowed). For progressives, it was more like buying lottery tickets. Minimum denomination bought you 1 'ticket' so if you played on a higher stake, you just got more 'tickets' and thus, more chance to win the jackpot. I guess this is different maths to some degree, but not requiring a change to symbol frequencies or anything like that.

Interesting to know!

I've done games with different maths per stake, and same maths per stake. It really depends what you want to do...

Take my Cash Eruption game for example, the design of that requires every single stake to have a completely different maths for the feature.

On Jungle Tower I have the same maths for every stake...

And yes, stakes are still configurable... it's just a lot of maths work!

 

[The Reel Story]

I've done games with different maths per stake, and same maths per stake. It really depends what you want to do...

Take my Cash Eruption game for example, the design of that requires every single stake to have a completely different maths for the feature.

On Jungle Tower I have the same maths for every stake...

And yes, stakes are still configurable... it's just a lot of maths work!

Super interesting! Things have moved on a lot from my time in the industry it seems! haha

 

[trancemonkey]

Super interesting! Things have moved on a lot from my time in the industry it seems! haha

Indeed..I only discovered most of this when i moved to IGT, although in the UK, there is often different RTP by stake in land based...

 

[The Reel Story]

Indeed..I only discovered most of this when i moved to IGT, although in the UK, there is often different RTP by stake in land based...

Yeh, I was aware of improved RTP by stake in land based. It's well known in Vegas that the 1c machines have the lowest RTP and the $1 machines have the best (and machines where you can select denomination do apparently change).

I just always thought with online, the RTP AND the maths had to be consistent across the game, not just the RTP. Always good to learn something new! haha

 

[joerdj]

You cannot change symbol frequency based on stake, thats illegal

Doesn't Wazdan does the same where a player can chose there volatility level? They must have different reels strips for those levels

 

[LanzasPT]

I have a question, what are the odds of having the same outcome more than twice (the same pattern and fruits/jars dispositions) in a slot like jammin jar?
I mean, the odds of having the same outcome is higher in a 3 reel slot than in a 5reel slot and so one?

 

[joerdj]

I have a question, what are the odds of having the same outcome more than twice (the same pattern and fruits/jars dispositions) in a slot like jammin jar?
I mean, the odds of having the same outcome is higher in a 3 reel slot than in a 5reel slot and so one?

Well a 0x win in pretty easy

 

[Kroffe]

Well a 0x win in pretty easy

Wait, have you also gotten a 0x win from jammin jars?
Guess its confirmed then, jammin jars is rigged.

 

[joerdj]

Wait, have you also gotten a 0x win from jammin jars?
Guess its confirmed then, jammin jars is rigged.

Damn did not expect more people with a 0x win, lets start a riot!

 

[joerdj]

I have a question, what are the odds of having the same outcome more than twice (the same pattern and fruits/jars dispositions) in a slot like jammin jar?
I mean, the odds of having the same outcome is higher in a 3 reel slot than in a 5reel slot and so one?

In all seriousness, maybe this is true for land based slots with actual reels. But I think that in online slots the reel bands can be ridiculously long. Add to that , front end and back end of a slot can be totally different. But in Jammin jars you have a 1 in 1.2 million chance to get the same result!

 

[Kroffe]

Damn did not expect more people with a 0x win, lets start a riot!

Maybe we wait for one more case of a 0x win to appear before we start burning stuff.
@LanzasPT To answer your question, it depends on how many different spins there are.

Ive heard a rumour that if you whisper @Harry_BKK three times, he will appear and tell you the odds.



Edit: or joerdj actually knew it all along.. =)

 

[LanzasPT]

I literally won ×1200 in jammin base game and found out two other screenshot with the same outcome as mine. I still have to read the threat where theres a video with side by side jammin doing the same.
Still will drop the screenshots. First was mine hit

 

[joerdj]

I literally won ×1200 in jammin base game and found out two other screenshot with the same outcome as mine. I still have to read the threat where theres a video with side by side jammin doing the same.
Still will drop the screenshots. First was mine hit

Jammin Jars has 1.2 million possible results. So if there is only one 1200x win possible then it would be 1 in 1.2 million. What I think happend is that Push gaming got a bit lazy, and that there are more ways to win 1200x but they only programmed 1 way to reach that 1200x.

Edit: so there might be 100 "balls" with 1200x assigned, but there is only one visual representation of that 1200x playing out

 

[trancemonkey]

I have a question, what are the odds of having the same outcome more than twice (the same pattern and fruits/jars dispositions) in a slot like jammin jar?
I mean, the odds of having the same outcome is higher in a 3 reel slot than in a 5reel slot and so one?

Jammim Jars works in a different way to most slots. They had 1.2m outcomes that were picked at random.

If a reel based game has 5 reels, each 120 symbols long, then the possible positions would be 24,883,200,000 (24.8bn)

 

[chiya]

Free spin results are decided the moment the scatters land, right?

Is BTG some mythical exception to the rule? Someone was adamantly claiming so in a stream, that their bonuses are truly random, and not predetermined.

If that is truly the case I cannot believe it to be just coincidence that most of the time when you get a symbol in danger/Lil devil the symbol just disappears from the reels.

 

[Kroffe]

Check out this thread about lil devils reel sets to see what is happening.

Lil Devil - Reel sets

Long story short, there are different reels used in the basegame and the bonus.
Each symbol has a different reel-set attached to it.

And as far as the randomness, if i dont remember wrong, i think BTG slots does a "call" for a new spin for every spin in the bonus.
There is a thread for DHV:s reel-sets aswell.

 

[The Reel Story]

In many games, they are decided the moment you click spin. There are a few providers who send every spin to the rng, BTG being one.

Either way is fine. They both have the same effect at the end of the day. They are both still random. Remember, pre-determined does NOT mean rigged.

The symbol disappearing isn't a coincidence. It's how it works. When you go into the bonus round, the game changes Reel sets, otherwise the bonus would always pay huge. This is also totally fine and is still random.

See Danger! High Voltage - Technical Analysis (The best symbol on Gates of Hell and other info) for more details on danger.

 

[chiya]

Yes but in a free spin bonus game, isn't the whole sequence considered one spin? Meaning when scatters landed, result was known. At least in a game history it will appear as one spin.

In this case they both have the same effect though yes, as BTG doesn't have picking games, but if a game did have picking and each spin in bonus was determined at that moment then wouldn't that mean picking actually matters?

 

[The Reel Story]

Yes but in a free spin bonus game, isn't the whole sequence considered one spin? Meaning when scatters landed, result was known. At least in a game history it will appear as one spin.

In this case they both have the same effect though yes, as BTG doesn't have picking games, but if a game did have picking and each spin in bonus was determined at that moment then wouldn't that mean picking actually matters?

It is all considered one spin, but it doesn't mean it all has to be known at once. The result can be built up, spin by spin, and then only gets recorded in to game history once it's all finished and the winnings are paid. What you will probably find in most games is that the result won't show up in the history until the winnings are paid. Depending on the integration with the casino payment systems, and the game, this may happen when you hit spin or may happen when the result is shown to you completely.

Picking only matters if it's a REAL choice, like between High Voltage or Gates of Hell. For a bonus where you just pick one of 3 'things', even if the game goes to the server for a result, it won't matter what graphic you clicked on. It will just ask the server for a result and then show it to you. It would still be the same result regardless of which 'thing' you press.