Ask me anything (about slots)!

[jacKofKats]

Hello

Trancemonkey - what's your view on persistent equity features - such as the boardgame bonus (with improved houses and hotels based on bet size) in Monopoly Here and Now (IGT) and more recently Kingmaker MegaWays (BTG)? Does the industry believe that players resent them for "trapping" them on a game whilst they feel compelled to wait for the feature to kick?

When I have played these games myself I experience a huge level of indecision. I cannot tell whether I want the bonus to trigger or to collect more equity. And often even when you have a large amount of equity this often makes no difference to the bonus as you come away from an average session with as much as you make on a "banging" sesh.

And more importantly what do you think to the games that are trying it now? Playzidos Poppin Potions or Push Gaming's Wizard Shop, where you collect reel symbols and spend them in a shop?

Be interested to know views as I'd love to see this mechanic work.

 

[trancemonkey]

Hello

Trancemonkey - what's your view on persistent equity features - such as the boardgame bonus (with improved houses and hotels based on bet size) in Monopoly Here and Now (IGT) and more recently Kingmaker MegaWays (BTG)? Does the industry believe that players resent them for "trapping" them on a game whilst they feel compelled to wait for the feature to kick?

When I have played these games myself I experience a huge level of indecision. I cannot tell whether I want the bonus to trigger or to collect more equity. And often even when you have a large amount of equity this often makes no difference to the bonus as you come away from an average session with as much as you make on a "banging" sesh.

And more importantly what do you think to the games that are trying it now? Playzidos Poppin Potions or Push Gaming's Wizard Shop, where you collect reel symbols and spend them in a shop?

Be interested to know views as I'd love to see this mechanic work.

I like persistence up to a limit... but everyone has a very different limit. The important thing for me is that the persistent features must have a clear benefit for amount collected - so it needs to be fair. I am sure some games have taken it too far.

I haven't seen real money games where you collect to spend in a shop (other than the Quickspin games where you could save up for Free Games), so i'll check these out - but this is very similar to the way a lot of social slots work - so i don't have a problem with this.

 

[RickyMicky]

Ask anythinh about slots? - How to win online slots? Or mission is impossible??

 

[trancemonkey]

Ask anythinh about slots? - How to win online slots? Or mission is impossible??

If there was a secret to winning, I would be a millionaire

 

[ebamori]

I have a question about repetitive near misses.
Is this just lazy programming or is it the intention of the provider to influence the player by use of the above.
The game in question is Midas Touch by Thunderkick.
I started playing this about a month ago and was very fortunate to get the miraculous 3000x hit just after I had raised the bet.
Naturally, since then I have played this slot a lot, albeit on extremely low stakes and so I am still well ahead and my observation is not influenced by the burden of losses.
What I am seeing after thousands of spins is a continuous appearance of a mega tease on the first and second reel followed by a no show of the scatter on the third and fourth and then the scatter comes into view on fifth with the timing indicating that it will have to stop on the fourteenth square for the scatter to only slide slowly and out of view missing the fifteenth and final square altogether.
This unpleasant full blown tease happens way too frequently and is always identical.
I have found that the effect on me is almost physical. My stomach actually lurches when this happens.
It’s not only tilting but almost taunting. I am a fairly disciplined player but my equilibrium and ability to play calmly often disappear after this happens three or more times in a session.
I’ve been playing slots ages and I was under the impression that certainly in land based casinos, slot machines were no longer permitted to use these tactics on the player.
Surely this is nothing more than a tilt to get the player to spend more money chasing something that is programmed not to happen.

 

[The Reel Story]

I have a question about repetitive near misses.
Is this just lazy programming or is it the intention of the provider to influence the player by use of the above.
The game in question is Midas Touch by Thunderkick.
I started playing this about a month ago and was very fortunate to get the miraculous 3000x hit just after I had raised the bet.
Naturally, since then I have played this slot a lot, albeit on extremely low stakes and so I am still well ahead and my observation is not influenced by the burden of losses.
What I am seeing after thousands of spins is a continuous appearance of a mega tease on the first and second reel followed by a no show of the scatter on the third and fourth and then the scatter comes into view on fifth with the timing indicating that it will have to stop on the fourteenth square for the scatter to only slide slowly and out of view missing the fifteenth and final square altogether.
This unpleasant full blown tease happens way too frequently and is always identical.
I have found that the effect on me is almost physical. My stomach actually lurches when this happens.
It’s not only tilting but almost taunting. I am a fairly disciplined player but my equilibrium and ability to play calmly often disappear after this happens three or more times in a session.
I’ve been playing slots ages and I was under the impression that certainly in land based casinos, slot machines were no longer permitted to use these tactics on the player.
Surely this is nothing more than a tilt to get the player to spend more money chasing something that is programmed not to happen.

To the best of my knowledge (and being true for every game I have ever worked on, which is quite a lot) 'near misses' are not programmed in. Slots are based on defined reel sets, and they stop where the RNG tells them to stop. So any kind of near miss you experience is likely to be a matter of luck.

The exception here could be that, if the game is not rendering realistic reel sets during the spin animation, so only the 'landed' symbols are the real ones and everything above, below and that flies past is just a random selection. In this instance you could see the scatter more often than normal (esp if the programmers have just given an even chance to select any symbol to display). In this case that would be lazy programming indeed, and I have seen this in games (normally where you see 2 scatters next to each other fly past, which is actually impossible to land). Pretty rare in modern games though.

Thunderkick games are pretty high quality and I believe they render actual reel sets (although I'm not 100% sure on that) so I'd be surprised to see 'lazy programming' as above.

 

[trancemonkey]

To the best of my knowledge (and being true for every game I have ever worked on, which is quite a lot) 'near misses' are not programmed in. Slots are based on defined reel sets, and they stop where the RNG tells them to stop. So any kind of near miss you experience is likely to be a matter of luck.

The exception here could be that, if the game is not rendering realistic reel sets during the spin animation, so only the 'landed' symbols are the real ones and everything above, below and that flies past is just a random selection. In this instance you could see the scatter more often than normal (esp if the programmers have just given an even chance to select any symbol to display). In this case that would be lazy programming indeed, and I have seen this in games (normally where you see 2 scatters next to each other fly past, which is actually impossible to land). Pretty rare in modern games though.

Thunderkick games are pretty high quality and I believe they render actual reel sets (although I'm not 100% sure on that) so I'd be surprised to see 'lazy programming' as above.

Well, they could have many sets of reel bands, and maybe one has many scatters on reels 1 and 2.

As with any game maths, if you tease people too much it can really annoy them and have the opposite effect to what you want, which is excitement.

 

[VismundCygnus]

Well, they could have many sets of reel bands, and maybe one has many scatters on reels 1 and 2.

As with any game maths, if you tease people too much it can really annoy them and have the opposite effect to what you want, which is excitement.

I think the more uncanny thing here is the description of the fifth reel seemingly always landing in a way where a scatter lands position beneath the bottom row. Is it common for developers to weight certain stops on the reels or have a virtual reel that make a specific result like that more common?

 

[trancemonkey]

I think the more uncanny thing here is the description of the fifth reel seemingly always landing in a way where a scatter lands position beneath the bottom row. Is it common for developers to weight certain stops on the reels or have a virtual reel that make a specific result like that more common?

Weighting symbols is very very common, but weighting it so it happens so often it gets annoying is just stupid.

 

[Spikie]

I have a question about Wild Swarm.

I read on another forum that Push Gaming took into account that people would build a swarm on low stakes and try and hit the swarm in high stakes .

Apparently the game does not take an average stale amount like other games do. From what I have read whilst building the swarm you get the full rtp base mode , but once you reach max hive the game goes into mega low rtp mode, but each bee has a 1 in 35 chance in triggering the swarm.

The swarm seems to pay anywhere between 10x and 1000x generally.

So how can they test and certify the full rtp of the game , do these billions of spins have millions of spins on 10p build swarm and then £20 when hive is full ? And also millions on straight play stakes ?

Seems complicated ... or really clever.

Is it like built in random compensation ?

 

[trancemonkey]

I have a question about Wild Swarm.

I read on another forum that Push Gaming took into account that people would build a swarm on low stakes and try and hit the swarm in high stakes .

Apparently the game does not take an average stale amount like other games do. From what I have read whilst building the swarm you get the full rtp base mode , but once you reach max hive the game goes into mega low rtp mode, but each bee has a 1 in 35 chance in triggering the swarm.

The swarm seems to pay anywhere between 10x and 1000x generally.

So how can they test and certify the full rtp of the game , do these billions of spins have millions of spins on 10p build swarm and then £20 when hive is full ? And also millions on straight play stakes ?

Seems complicated ... or really clever.

Is it like built in random compensation ?

I honestly have no idea how they could get that through compliance if the game changed its maths completely once the hive was full UNLESS it specifically said what it was doing in the help pages, and even then, I'm not sure how that would pass compliance.

I admit I don't know enough about the game to comment further at this stage.

 

[RickyMicky]

If there was a secret to winning, I would be a millionaire

Oh yes me too and it would not be a super-profitable business, but a loss-making for sure.

 

[snorky510238]

To the best of my knowledge (and being true for every game I have ever worked on, which is quite a lot) 'near misses' are not programmed in. Slots are based on defined reel sets, and they stop where the RNG tells them to stop. So any kind of near miss you experience is likely to be a matter of luck.

The exception here could be that, if the game is not rendering realistic reel sets during the spin animation, so only the 'landed' symbols are the real ones and everything above, below and that flies past is just a random selection. In this instance you could see the scatter more often than normal (esp if the programmers have just given an even chance to select any symbol to display). In this case that would be lazy programming indeed, and I have seen this in games (normally where you see 2 scatters next to each other fly past, which is actually impossible to land). Pretty rare in modern games though.

Thunderkick games are pretty high quality and I believe they render actual reel sets (although I'm not 100% sure on that) so I'd be surprised to see 'lazy programming' as above.

Napoleon, DOA and Montezuma are just 3 which display scatters that are impossible to land.

 

[brianmon]

Napoleon, DOA and Montezuma are just 3 which display scatters that are impossible to land.

And DOA only started doing it after the HTML5 conversion. It never happened with the flash version.
It's been done VERY deliberately.
In fact it was worse, when first released, with scatters above the frame, on almost every reel, every spin.
I think they eventually realised they'd gone too far with it an reduced the number showing

 

[snorky510238]

And DOA only started doing it after the HTML5 conversion. It never happened with the flash version.
It's been done VERY deliberately.
In fact it was worse, when first released, with scatters above the frame, on almost every reel, every spin.
I think they eventually realised they'd gone too far with it an reduced the number showing

Yes agreed. I am really referring to the fact that you can get a scatter on the central win line (say reel 3) and also have one showing just above the frame on reel 3. Meaning if you move the reel down one position you would have 2 in view on the same reel which we know can’t happen on DOA.

Napoleon does the same only the symbols show below the frame and Montezuma if you watch closely, very occasionally you will see 2 scatters on reel 1 go past that are next to each other.

I first started noticing this sort of thing when Spartacus first came out. I played the game over and over. The reels spin so slowly that it is possible to see abnormalities occurring.

When you hit 2 scatters on the small screen you will occasionally see a symbol on reel 8 that doesn’t resemble any known symbol of the game. It looks like a deformed colosseum. Also when waiting for a third scatter the reel layout changes. This typically happens on reel 8 and particularly on reel 10. Scatters that are normally in a certain place seem to get overlaid by a repetitive blanket of symbols that are not normally there. On the flip side if it wants to give the feature a scatter appears where there usually isn’t one.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I honestly have no idea how they could get that through compliance if the game changed its maths completely once the hive was full UNLESS it specifically said what it was doing in the help pages, and even then, I'm not sure how that would pass compliance.

I admit I don't know enough about the game to comment further at this stage.

Is it possible the swarm could be a video like jammie jars bonus?

 

[trancemonkey]

Yes agreed. I am really referring to the fact that you can get a scatter on the central win line (say reel 3) and also have one showing just above the frame on reel 3. Meaning if you move the reel down one position you would have 2 in view on the same reel which we know can’t happen on DOA.

Napoleon does the same only the symbols show below the frame and Montezuma if you watch closely, very occasionally you will see 2 scatters on reel 1 go past that are next to each other.

I first started noticing this sort of thing when Spartacus first came out. I played the game over and over. The reels spin so slowly that it is possible to see abnormalities occurring.

When you hit 2 scatters on the small screen you will occasionally see a symbol on reel 8 that doesn’t resemble any known symbol of the game. It looks like a deformed colosseum. Also when waiting for a third scatter the reel layout changes. This typically happens on reel 8 and particularly on reel 10. Scatters that are normally in a certain place seem to get overlaid by a repetitive blanket of symbols that are not normally there. On the flip side if it wants to give the feature a scatter appears where there usually isn’t one.

So the reason you see two scatters next to each other on the reels sometimes is likely because of the way reel bands are constructed.

When you press start, the reels start to spin. When the reels are about to stop, the correct reel bands for the outcome are spliced in. If the code is not well constructed, you could splice a scatter next to another scatter...

 

[The Reel Story]

I have a question about Wild Swarm.

I read on another forum that Push Gaming took into account that people would build a swarm on low stakes and try and hit the swarm in high stakes .

Apparently the game does not take an average stale amount like other games do. From what I have read whilst building the swarm you get the full rtp base mode , but once you reach max hive the game goes into mega low rtp mode, but each bee has a 1 in 35 chance in triggering the swarm.

The swarm seems to pay anywhere between 10x and 1000x generally.

So how can they test and certify the full rtp of the game , do these billions of spins have millions of spins on 10p build swarm and then £20 when hive is full ? And also millions on straight play stakes ?

Seems complicated ... or really clever.

Is it like built in random compensation ?

I honestly have no idea how they could get that through compliance if the game changed its maths completely once the hive was full UNLESS it specifically said what it was doing in the help pages, and even then, I'm not sure how that would pass compliance.

I admit I don't know enough about the game to comment further at this stage.

Agree with Trance, I highly doubt the maths model is changing much (if at all). I think the swarm feature actually has limited impact on the RTP, so the hive filling and after the hive is filled are probably nearly the same RTP. It's more a psychological trick to make people think they can game the system, then waste all their money trying to 'pop' the hive because they built it up.

No proof for that, but as it still takes hundreds of spins to 'pop' the hive, even once it's full, it would make sense. Basically it's a bit like Lil' Devil. The heartstopper bonus is made out to be this incredible thing, but in reality it's only very slightly better (at best) than a standard bonus.

 

[Kroffe]

Agree with Trance, I highly doubt the maths model is changing much (if at all). I think the swarm feature actually has limited impact on the RTP, so the hive filling and after the hive is filled are probably nearly the same RTP. It's more a psychological trick to make people think they can game the system, then waste all their money trying to 'pop' the hive because they built it up.

No proof for that, but as it still takes hundreds of spins to 'pop' the hive, even once it's full, it would make sense. Basically it's a bit like Lil' Devil. The heartstopper bonus is made out to be this incredible thing, but in reality it's only very slightly better (at best) than a standard bonus.

But you can pop it first bee when its full tho right?
Im sure ive seen bandit fill it on 20p and pop it on €10 or whatever, and get it within his first 100 autos.

 

[The Reel Story]

But you can pop it first bee when its full tho right?
Im sure ive seen bandit fill it on 20p and pop it on €10 or whatever, and get it within his first 100 autos.

You can, yes. The same way you can pop a bonus on your first spin of any game. The question is, are you LIKELY to?

You're assuming the swarm bonus is super special. You'd probably find that, if they got rid of the 'fill' mechanic, and just had the hive full all the time, the RTP would be very similar to what it is with the fill mechanic enabled

 

[Smithyy]

Hey Trance,

Bit of a strange question - wondering if you know an answer!

There's a HTML5 slot from Quickspin, and I absolutely love the soundtrack. Like I genuinely find it very relaxing, and soothing! I know it sounds lame lol, but I'd love to be able to download the music just to listen to when i'm stressed!

Do you know if there's any way of doing this? Like, finding the music track to listen to?

Thank you!

 

[trancemonkey]

Hey Trance,

Bit of a strange question - wondering if you know an answer!

There's a HTML5 slot from Quickspin, and I absolutely love the soundtrack. Like I genuinely find it very relaxing, and soothing! I know it sounds lame lol, but I'd love to be able to download the music just to listen to when i'm stressed!

Do you know if there's any way of doing this? Like, finding the music track to listen to?

Thank you!

You could reach out directly to Quickspin.. depends if they have got it from a 3rd party or in house as to how easy it would be to get hold of it...

 

[Smithyy]

You could reach out directly to Quickspin.. depends if they have got it from a 3rd party or in house as to how easy it would be to get hold of it...

Yes I already tried that - Didnt get a response Guess it is a weird question to ask lol

 

[trancemonkey]

Loop

Yes I already tried that - Didnt get a response Guess it is a weird question to ask lol

Did you try and Shazam it?

 

[The Reel Story]

Hey Trance,

Bit of a strange question - wondering if you know an answer!

There's a HTML5 slot from Quickspin, and I absolutely love the soundtrack. Like I genuinely find it very relaxing, and soothing! I know it sounds lame lol, but I'd love to be able to download the music just to listen to when i'm stressed!

Do you know if there's any way of doing this? Like, finding the music track to listen to?

Thank you!

Which game? Quickspin don't appear to package up their MP3's in any way. You can just sniff the traffic and download the MP3.