Ask me anything (about slots)!

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Nice to have someone (who have been) in the inside. Pardon the trial-like questioning :

- do you know what provably fair means?

- why haven't you (or any companies/casinos) implemented it?

- do you/they plan to implement it, or similarly allow the player to verify the integrity of the game (checksums, files, generated RNG and mapping into the reels) himself, instead of relying on criminal licensing authority and auditors ?

- do you/any company plan to release publicly the full source code of any game that is currently in the market? if no, why?

- do you/any company or casino plan to release publicly, after anonymizing, the dataset of say a full year of all spins on one game?

- aren't the only reasons why it's not done all the following :
a) to continue to cheat players
b) more transparency is not a legal obligation
c) since 99% of income of this industry relies on always returning costumers (aka problem gamblers) with (maybe temporary) limited intellectual skills/knowledge and very helping affiliates, they won't ever force the industry for more transparency?
 
In my experience, no this is not something that i've ever come across. I've never worked for MG, so i can't comment directly on their games, but again, i wouldn't see the point in doing this. Firstly, for every set of maths a company does, it has to be tested and homologated (approved by GLI / NMI / some test lab) if they are going in to a regulated environment - i'm sure some shitty little sites don't care about this, but if it's UKGC registered, they will have to be approved. If you're going to change the maths by bet, there is a time and cost implication. Of course, this isn't a barrier to doing it, but i would be very surprised if it were the case.

Secondly, if a casino wants to protect themselves against someone winning too much and the payout being too high (max liability as we call it) then they would just simply reduce the max bet so that the max liability was something they would be happy with.



On a side note - it's so strange seeing these questions, because when i started working in online slots, i had exactly the same kind of questions as you guys do... and would i have trusted some guy on a forum telling me i was wrong? Dunno - but now i'm on this side of the fence talking to you guys, i could see exactly why you wouldn't believe me. Experiences teach us so much - and if you believe in something very strongly, it's hard to stop believing it just because someone tells you you're wrong...


Keep them coming :)

I think its a great asset to have someone willing & trying to answer some questions in here ( keep it up ) , we used to have KKTM ( i think ) who was in the trade if memory serves me correct , but no longer pops on )

Still does not answer the key question from a player point of view in terms of why when betting bigger & reducing lines theres a slight pause & the games always if not 99% of the time goes flat no features no nothing , only this happens always when betting higher.
You can test this yourself if you play MG games you shall see the slight pause as the high bets go in . i think its rather odd & in my mind,almost as its sending you to server number 3 . 1 being below £3 bets server 2 being below £6 server 3 being below £15 per bet & so fourth.

it would still complete its rtp% & maths on the game albeit a higher server ??
 
I think its a great asset to have someone willing & trying to answer some questions in here ( keep it up ) , we used to have KKTM ( i think ) who was in the trade if memory serves me correct , but no longer pops on )

Still does not answer the key question from a player point of view in terms of why when betting bigger & reducing lines theres a slight pause & the games always if not 99% of the time goes flat no features no nothing , only this happens always when betting higher.
You can test this yourself if you play MG games you shall see the slight pause as the high bets go in . i think its rather odd & in my mind,almost as its sending you to server number 3 . 1 being below £3 bets server 2 being below £6 server 3 being below £15 per bet & so fourth.

it would still complete its rtp% & maths on the game albeit a higher server ??

All i can say is that i've never heard of this, nor done anything like this anywhere i've worked.

Sadly i can't tell you any more than that...
 
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Nice to have someone (who have been) in the inside. Pardon the trial-like questioning :

- do you know what provably fair means?

No - although a quick google of it gave me the info i need

- why haven't you (or any companies/casinos) implemented it?

1. Because all our games are tested by GLI or some other approved test house. 2. Because in order to prove that the result you got was the result the game intended you to have, you would need access to the maths, game logic and all sorts of other IP that no-one is going to want to give away (assuming i'm understanding this correctly). Proving a deck is shuffled correctly (as per BitZino) is very different to proving the spin of some reels...

- do you/they plan to implement it, or similarly allow the player to verify the integrity of the game (checksums, files, generated RNG and mapping into the reels) himself, instead of relying on criminal licensing authority and auditors ?

No - for the reasons given above

- do you/any company plan to release publicly the full source code of any game that is currently in the market? if no, why?

No - for the reasons given above. The main, and most obvious one, being IP

- do you/any company or casino plan to release publicly, after anonymizing, the dataset of say a full year of all spins on one game?

No - because doing so would make public the profile of the game (win distribution, frequency of wins, etc) which are the IP of the company and are the main reason our games differ from other peoples

- aren't the only reasons why it's not done all the following :
a) to continue to cheat players
b) more transparency is not a legal obligation
c) since 99% of income of this industry relies on always returning costumers (aka problem gamblers) with (maybe temporary) limited intellectual skills/knowledge and very helping affiliates, they won't ever force the industry for more transparency?

I appreciate they aren't the answers you want - but the source code, and more importantly the maths (profile, win ranges, payout distribution, etc...) are our main IP. They are the heart of the games, and hence will never be given away freely.
 
1. The main question that would explain a lot of things is:

What data string is transmitted between player --> casino --> game server --> casino --> player? We are hammered from all sides of the industry that only a request for a random result goes to the game server which I do not believe, especially because it has been said so many times yet nobody actually publishes once a sample of the data packets.

2. Why does everyone involved in the industry keep repeating endlessly that slots are random? They are NOT.

3. Why is the industry allowed to display a RTP which is calculated "ad infinitum" giving novices or even more seasoned players the impression that they are not risking more than just the usual 4%?

4. How can a slot have one event happening 1x on average every 22.000 spins at small bets, 1x on average every 1Mio spins at medium bets and never in over 1.2Mio spins at high bets without being weighted?

I am talking here about the elusive double 5OAK Sheriff Stars on DOA. Now the direct answer to that would be --> bad luck, random results. However, the slot has a few more double 5OAK pays, e.g. Hats + Sheriff Stars, Holster + A's, Double Boots, Double A's, Double K's. Funnily, the hit rate of those double pays for the lower paying symbols evens out for all bet sizes, but the high paying symbols are happening nearly exclusive on the small bets. If I take these 5OAK pays into the calculation then it looks even worse than those above, much worse. Still bad luck?

These are samples of minimum 1 Mio spins at each bet size and more in the past months, yet the hit rates and distribution across the bet sizes are not changing in the slightest.

5. Why are all slots that take your balance relentlessly down from any random amount suddenly show 2-scatter teaser when the balance is down to appr. 10x bet? Any game provider, not specific. Random? Surely if it does not happen every time, but surely not if it does.

6. How much psychology goes into slot design these days? Especially since the introduction of the HTML5 format this has become unbearable. It freed designers from virtual reel bands and they can pick and choose how a spin result is displayed.

Got more as i am into statistics and mathematical equations but too tired to formulate them properly. The ones in this post might not make complete sense as well.
 
All i can say is that i've never heard of this, nor done anything like this anywhere i've worked. That doesn't mean MG aren't doing it...
Sadly i can't tell you any more than that...

its one of those questions i know :thumbsup:

But the thought behind it goes as follows we here @ CM know the RTG games can be set to 3 different levels in terms of TRTP%. also weve just found another software which can be changed as well ( i think playngo ) @ some casino it was set very very low.

So what is stopping any big or small company from producing 6 different game levels of bets across there platforms ,

lets say .game one small stakes up to £3 per spin set @ 96.3%

Game 2 medium stakes up to £5 per spin set @ 94.2%

Game 3 higher stakes up to £20 per spin set @ 91.99

up to level 6 surely this would still pass all gaming regs ? in terms of model & TRTP% ??

What would be your thoughts on this out of interest ????
 
I'll answer in line as best i can - then i'm going to bed (i'm working abroad at the moment). I'm sure there will be follow up questions :)

1. The main question that would explain a lot of things is:

What data string is transmitted between player --> casino --> game server --> casino --> player? We are hammered from all sides of the industry that only a request for a random result goes to the game server which I do not believe, especially because it has been said so many times yet nobody actually publishes once a sample of the data packets.

The game sends a spin request which contains information such as number of lines, coin size, total bet, etc.. The server gets this request and then sends a result back to the client for that spin, or for that part of a spin (for example, if it's going in to free games, it may only send back the initial spin and the fact the game client needs to go in to free games - then it would request another spin result for the first free game. The client is completely dumb to the game - it just displays what it's told to display.

2. Why does everyone involved in the industry keep repeating endlessly that slots are random? They are NOT.

You'll have to explain what you mean by this before i can give you an answer... but in simple terms, yes they are... but of course it's slightly more complex than that no

3. Why is the industry allowed to display a RTP which is calculated "ad infinitum" giving novices or even more seasoned players the impression that they are not risking more than just the usual 4%?

You'll notice that in IGT slots we state that the return to the player can be greater or less than the TRTP, and that the number of games played has a large bearing on the RTP the player will receive. RTP is just a guideline. You should never read too much in to it... volatility is actually more important to me as a player.

4. How can a slot have one event happening 1x on average every 22.000 spins at small bets, 1x on average every 1Mio spins at medium bets and never in over 1.2Mio spins at high bets without being weighted?

I am talking here about the elusive double 5OAK Sheriff Stars on DOA. Now the direct answer to that would be --> bad luck, random results. However, the slot has a few more double 5OAK pays, e.g. Hats + Sheriff Stars, Holster + A's, Double Boots, Double A's, Double K's. Funnily, the hit rate of those double pays for the lower paying symbols evens out for all bet sizes, but the high paying symbols are happening nearly exclusive on the small bets. If I take these 5OAK pays into the calculation then it looks even worse than those above, much worse. Still bad luck?

These are samples of minimum 1 Mio spins at each bet size and more in the past months, yet the hit rates and distribution across the bet sizes are not changing in the slightest.

My simple guess would be that the reel band design on DOA has been done in such a way that that result is very very unlikely. This kind of thing is very normal in slot maths design - it's bloody hard to get more than a few gorillas on Rhino isn't it... far easier to get a big amount of Rhinos, even though it's a higher symbol...not every win has the same chance of happening - results can vary wildly.

5. Why are all slots that take your balance relentlessly down from any random amount suddenly show 2-scatter teaser when the balance is down to appr. 10x bet? Any game provider, not specific. Random? Surely if it does not happen every time, but surely not if it does.

They don't - this is just perception. You'll no doubt disagree, but unless you can provide statistical proof of this, i will stand by the fact it's perception. Guarantee i don't do any of that shit in any of my games :)

6. How much psychology goes into slot design these days? Especially since the introduction of the HTML5 format this has become unbearable. It freed designers from virtual reel bands and they can pick and choose how a spin result is displayed.
A lot of psychology... slot design is nearly all about psychology, and that's EXACTLY why we all believe different things about slot behaviour. We've all heard Dunover saying that he can tell when a feature on Rhino is going to be shit - sticks in my mind certainly. Yet i guarantee that sometimes when he says that, he's wrong... Our job as games producers is, let's be honest, to make losing money enjoyable. Of course we want you to win so you keep coming back - hence i make medium to high volatile games because these are the type i like - but at the end of the day, if you don't lose, the casinos don't exist and nor do the slots...

Got more as i am into statistics and mathematical equations but too tired to formulate them properly. The ones in this post might not make complete sense as well.

Hope that at least answers some of your points, and no doubt raises more ;)
 
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its one of those questions i know :thumbsup:

But the thought behind it goes as follows we here @ CM know the RTG games can be set to 3 different levels in terms of TRTP%. also weve just found another software which can be changed as well ( i think playngo ) @ some casino it was set very very low.

So what is stopping any big or small company from producing 6 different game levels of bets across there platforms ,

lets say .game one small stakes up to £3 per spin set @ 96.3%

Game 2 medium stakes up to £5 per spin set @ 94.2%

Game 3 higher stakes up to £20 per spin set @ 91.99

up to level 6 surely this would still pass all gaming regs ? in terms of model & TRTP% ??

What would be your thoughts on this out of interest ????

There is nothing stopping them doing this - as long as it stated this in the help screens. The Sky's The Limit (on Sky Vegas) has different RTP's for different bet levels. We do this in retail casinos as well. The main thing is that you're open and honest about it - and yes, PlayNGo and RTG do have different RTP's, but if you're a savvy player, wouldn't you always play at the highest one? Online isn't like retail - they aren't fighting for floor space per se - they don't have a utilisation issue, so the ONLY reason to lower the RTP is greed - to make more money. But because there are SO MANY online casinos, its much easier to shop around...
 
If you are playing a slot and go out for half an hour would you get the same spin result when you came back as you had of done if you had played it half an hour before?
 
I'm off to bed now - 11pm here in Graz...

Keep them coming and i'll do my best to answer them as we go...

Also, i completely understand that some of you will probably sit there, shaking your head and saying "BS" to some of what i'm saying. I get it - i'd be the same as you. However, please understand that i'm just telling you what i know from doing this for 20 years. There are many companies in this industry - some excellent, some good, some not so good, some down right dodgy. I'm sure there are a lot of things that go on i don't know about - i'm just giving you my take on it...

Hope that's ok! :)
 
If you are playing a slot and go out for half an hour would you get the same spin result when you came back as you had of done if you had played it half an hour before?

No - the result is only calculated when you press the start button...
 
There is nothing stopping them doing this - as long as it stated this in the help screens. The Sky's The Limit (on Sky Vegas) has different RTP's for different bet levels. We do this in retail casinos as well. The main thing is that you're open and honest about it - and yes, PlayNGo and RTG do have different RTP's, but if you're a savvy player, wouldn't you always play at the highest one? Online isn't like retail - they aren't fighting for floor space per se - they don't have a utilisation issue, so the ONLY reason to lower the RTP is greed - to make more money. But because there are SO MANY online casinos, its much easier to shop around...

Many thanks. along with the guys i have a few more questions for you ) i shall await my turn now )
 
I appreciate they aren't the answers you want - but the source code, and more importantly the maths (profile, win ranges, payout distribution, etc...) are our main IP. They are the heart of the games, and hence will never be given away freely.

On the contrary. They are the exact answers I expected and wanted ;)

Thanks for your honest and blitz quick response.



I could only hope these answers, and especially the conclusions that can be drawn from them, help people really understand.
 
No - the result is only calculated when you press the start button...

So in effect then I could never get a feature because when I next am due one on a spin I might have been having toilet break, so when I watch Dunover's videos and he has taken 1000 spins to get a feature on Bonanza if he hadn't shown us the pay table he might have got the feature on spin 5 lol.
 
Good topic and kudos to the OP for taking the time answering them. Here's another one:

I am not sure if you are familiar with Bonanza from Big Time Gaming. This slot can easily go 1000s of spins without a bonus only for it to pay less than 100x when it eventually drops in. The big money sits within the bonus round. Is this just a badly designed slot or has it been designed to make the player gamble more than that they meant to, it bordering on responsible gambling ethics.
 
Good topic and kudos to the OP for taking the time answering them. Here's another one:

I am not sure if you are familiar with Bonanza from Big Time Gaming. This slot can easily go 1000s of spins without a bonus only for it to pay less than 10x when it eventually drops in. The big money sits within the bonus round. Is this just a badly designed slot or has it been designed to make the player gamble more than that they meant to, it bordering on responsible gambling ethics.

Fixed your post for accuracy :D
 
So in effect then I could never get a feature because when I next am due one on a spin I might have been having toilet break, so when I watch Dunover's videos and he has taken 1000 spins to get a feature on Bonanza if he hadn't shown us the pay table he might have got the feature on spin 5 lol.

This is how I have always believed slots and VP worked. For example - when you hold "4 to a Royal Flush" there is ALWAYS a chance you could get a royal; it just depends when you press the button.
 
My question is on behalf of the many Canadians here.

We are losing access to many slot machines. We have never been allowed to play Novomatic. Many parts of Canada have no access to WMS. Net Entertainment never allowed us to play ever but the casinos gave us access for some time before locking them. I think by the end of the year Canadians will no longer have access to Next Generation (Madusa !!, Psycho, Silver Lion), Big Time Gaming (Bonanza, Starquest, Queen of Riches) and possibly Playtech (Great Blue, Buffalo Blitz) and who knows what else. A future with Microgaming, Play 'n Go, Quickspin, Thunderkick, iSoftBet, Game Arts and the super volatile Red Tiger isn't going to be fruitful for many here. PlayOLG has nothing but IGT/Spielo and Bally and the payback is poor but we all avoid it.

The thing is that we're considered a Grey Market but so is Norway and yet Norway is given a break (they only lost WMS) by these companies.

1. What will it take for Net Entertainment, WMS and others to unblock Canadians?

2. Do these companies realize Canada and the U.S. are separate countries?

3. Why can I play IGT on PlayOLG but not on the European sites?

We are only asking for a fair chance of winning. I went between the end of September 2016 and February 18, 2017 without a withdrawal solely from slots on Euro casinos. I did make two withdrawals but that was mostly on blackjack and roulette via Leo Vegas. At the rate we are going, Canadians will simply have to go to Las Vegas. All casinos are owned by the government and the Ontario ones set the machines at 85%. They get away with it because most of their patrons are seniors who know nothing about how slots work.

I don't mean to be demeaning or anything to you, I apologize. It's just that we're on our way to being like the Americans who are mostly stuck with Real Time Gaming and their "We'll pay you your $12,000 over six months" hell. I don't want that. We only want a fair chance at winning like the Europeans.
 
This is how I have always believed slots and VP worked. For example - when you hold "4 to a Royal Flush" there is ALWAYS a chance you could get a royal; it just depends when you press the button.

And you'd be right...
 
My question is on behalf of the many Canadians here.

We are losing access to many slot machines. We have never been allowed to play Novomatic. Many parts of Canada have no access to WMS. Net Entertainment never allowed us to play ever but the casinos gave us access for some time before locking them. I think by the end of the year Canadians will no longer have access to Next Generation (Madusa !!, Psycho, Silver Lion), Big Time Gaming (Bonanza, Starquest, Queen of Riches) and possibly Playtech (Great Blue, Buffalo Blitz) and who knows what else. A future with Microgaming, Play 'n Go, Quickspin, Thunderkick, iSoftBet, Game Arts and the super volatile Red Tiger isn't going to be fruitful for many here. PlayOLG has nothing but IGT/Spielo and Bally and the payback is poor but we all avoid it.

The thing is that we're considered a Grey Market but so is Norway and yet Norway is given a break (they only lost WMS) by these companies.

1. What will it take for Net Entertainment, WMS and others to unblock Canadians?

2. Do these companies realize Canada and the U.S. are separate countries?

3. Why can I play IGT on PlayOLG but not on the European sites?

We are only asking for a fair chance of winning. I went between the end of September 2016 and February 18, 2017 without a withdrawal solely from slots on Euro casinos. I did make two withdrawals but that was mostly on blackjack and roulette via Leo Vegas. At the rate we are going, Canadians will simply have to go to Las Vegas. All casinos are owned by the government and the Ontario ones set the machines at 85%. They get away with it because most of their patrons are seniors who know nothing about how slots work.

I don't mean to be demeaning or anything to you, I apologize. It's just that we're on our way to being like the Americans who are mostly stuck with Real Time Gaming and their "We'll pay you your $12,000 over six months" hell. I don't want that. We only want a fair chance at winning like the Europeans.

My guess (and it's just an educated guess) is that the regulations in Canada are onerous. I would guess that you will eventually get games from all providers if those providers deem the market worthwhile (which I'm sure it is) and that the time and money required to get licenced and get games live in Canada is worth it.

Sorry, but I can't really say more than that without further investigation or knowledge.
 
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My guess (and it's just an educated guess) is that the regulations in Canada are onerous. I know they are for the retail market... we have to do all sorts of crap to be Canadian compliant. I would guess that you will eventually get games from all providers if those providers deem the market worthwhile (which I'm sure it is) and that the time and money required to get licenced and get games live in Canada is worth it.

Sorry, but I can't really say more than that without further investigation or knowledge.

This is part of the problem, however the main problem lies with the US Regulators that stipulate a vast range of territories that a provider cannot operate in if they wish to receive a licence in the US. Whist online gaming is still relatively small in the US if a provider is refused a licence in one of the current jurisdictions then as the US market opens up they will be refused a licence everywhere.

Canada is a grey market currently and there are many many other grey markets that the US regulators will not tolerate a 3rd party games provider supplying to so you are not on your own it just so happens that you are one of the biggest that the US stipulate.

There is a precedent for this. For many many years the NEvada Gambling Commission that regulate the licencing of Slot machines in B&M casino's go even further in what a slots provider such as IGT or Bally can provide their slots to. There is a due diligence process that every casino has to go through to be able to buy, for example, IGT machines and this process is exhaustive and very ling winded. It takes into account not just gaming territories and licences but the financial and criinal background of EVERY single beneficial owner etc
 
Does the amount you stake affect the chances of winning on that spin?

Are you more likely to win at 20p a go than at £2 a go?
 
Yes, it does on games like Cleo Plus but not on games with standard free games with no cumulative effect which are the same from spin 1, i.e. Ghostbusters Triple Slime that I just reviewed. Yet it still has a range!

So the reason is that the game can be configured with one of 3 different RTP's depending on the operator - but the client doesn't know which one it's configured to, so they display the min and max.
 
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Does the amount you stake affect the chances of winning on that spin?

Are you more likely to win at 20p a go than at £2 a go?

Not unless you're playing a game such as The Sky's The Limit where different stakes have different RTP's and different bonuses associated with them....
The vast, vast majority of games (at least from the good manufacturers that i know of) don't change the game based on stake.
 
Good topic and kudos to the OP for taking the time answering them. Here's another one:

I am not sure if you are familiar with Bonanza from Big Time Gaming. This slot can easily go 1000s of spins without a bonus only for it to pay less than 100x when it eventually drops in. The big money sits within the bonus round. Is this just a badly designed slot or has it been designed to make the player gamble more than that they meant to, it bordering on responsible gambling ethics.

Hey Interlog

Any game with a bonus frequency of > 1 in 100 could go 1000 games without a bonus... i'm not sure what the bonus frequency is on these BTG games, but i imagine it's infrequent and highly volatile - they would have to be in order to pay the kind of wins that these games can deliver...

I have to take umbrage with your last point though - no one makes players gamble more than they meant to, that's their own personal choice. We don't want or need problem gamblers - we want people to play with funds they are comfortable with losing (if indeed they DO lose) and enjoy their time gambling. BTG games aren't bordering on irresponsible. If you decide to gamble irresponsibly then that's your choice.

Whether it's a good game or not, that's a different discussion...
 
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