Ask me anything (about slots)!

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Hey Interlog

Any game with a bonus frequency of > 1 in 100 could go 1000 games without a bonus... i'm not sure what the bonus frequency is on these BTG games, but i imagine it's infrequent and highly volatile - they would have to be in order to pay the kind of wins that these games can deliver...

I have to take umbrage with your last point though - no one makes players gamble more than they meant to, that's their own personal choice. We don't want or need problem gamblers - we want people to play with funds they are comfortable with losing (if indeed they DO lose) and enjoy their time gambling. BTG games aren't bordering on irresponsible. If you decide to gamble irresponsibly then that's your choice.

Whether it's a good game or not, that's a different discussion...


Gambling disorder, compulsive gambling or pathological disorders are all known as impulse control disorders. So in reality if you are a compulsive gambler you no longer have a choice. It has become a sickness. It's especially found in people who suffer from ADHD, anxiety, bi polar and many other sicknesses. So that is not a personal choice.

You may not want or need them but it happens regardless and you may be speaking on a personal level but I dont believe you would represent all software providers. Many of their intentions are to create games that become addicting.

With that being said, BTG production of the game was to make something that people enjoy. That's the aim of all software providers, isnt it? I don't think they sat there and thought will this cause gambling addictions. They wanted to create a game that is successful.

Whether their intentions were meant that way or not, that game is an instant hit with casino's and players. It's a game that keeps you even and playing a very long time in hopes of obtaining that large win. It is also a game that is going to be very dangerous to problem gamblers as the entire slot is appealing to all sorts of gamers and is a perfect example of "that big hit is going to come soon I can feel it". You then have all the gems, diamonds, stacked symbols, extra reels, fast upbeat music, special sound effects for decent little hits. It's a gamers dream and a problem gamblers nightmare.

It's also a slot where people will make larger bets because the base game returns are incredibly high which either ends in slow losses or chasing your losses and before you know it, you just blew alot of money.
 
Hey Interlog

Any game with a bonus frequency of > 1 in 100 could go 1000 games without a bonus... i'm not sure what the bonus frequency is on these BTG games, but i imagine it's infrequent and highly volatile - they would have to be in order to pay the kind of wins that these games can deliver...

I have to take umbrage with your last point though - no one makes players gamble more than they meant to, that's their own personal choice. We don't want or need problem gamblers - we want people to play with funds they are comfortable with losing (if indeed they DO lose) and enjoy their time gambling. BTG games aren't bordering on irresponsible. If you decide to gamble irresponsibly then that's your choice.

Whether it's a good game or not, that's a different discussion...

Good reply. There's really no need for BTG or anyone else for that matter having to prey on the vulnerable gambler, I'm also rather sure that's never or is there intention.
It's just the fact that bonanza is that terribly HV and volatile, that it may seem that way when your rowing money through sometimes +1000 spins for a bonus, can happen with rhino, it happened to me on monte only days ago.
 
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Gambling disorder, compulsive gambling or pathological disorders are all known as impulse control disorders. So in reality if you are a compulsive gambler you no longer have a choice. It has become a sickness. It's especially found in people who suffer from ADHD, anxiety, bi polar and many other sicknesses. So that is not a personal choice.

You may not want or need them but it happens regardless and you may be speaking on a personal level but I dont believe you would represent all software providers. Many of their intentions are to create games that become addicting.

You could say the same about drinks, food, etc.. Why do companies try and make nice food - so you'll keep eating it. They don't WANT you to get fat and die - they don't want you to have an eating disorder. They want you to enjoy their food, buy it whenever you can, and be a return customer. You can't say that Fosters are responsible for alcoholics because they make beer people want to drink. The same is true for gambling - of course we want people to enjoy the games. We want them to keep coming back for more - that's the way the business works. We need repeat customers - but we don't want them losing their house or family over it because then they AREN'T repeat customers...

With that being said, BTG production of the game was to make something that people enjoy. That's the aim of all software providers, isnt it? I don't think they sat there and thought will this cause gambling addictions. They wanted to create a game that is successful.

Whether their intentions were meant that way or not, that game is an instant hit with casino's and players. It's a game that keeps you even and playing a very long time in hopes of obtaining that large win. It is also a game that is going to be very dangerous to problem gamblers as the entire slot is appealing to all sorts of gamers and is a perfect example of "that big hit is going to come soon I can feel it". You then have all the gems, diamonds, stacked symbols, extra reels, fast upbeat music, special sound effects for decent little hits. It's a gamers dream and a problem gamblers nightmare.

The industry does a lot (arguably not enough) to help problem gamblers. There is a myriad of support if they choose to want it. The biggest thing i could see is a self-exclusion system that covers ALL online casinos. For example, allow someone to blacklist themselves from being able to register at a casino. This would help problem gamblers who have so much choice of online casinos, it almost doesn't matter if you self-exclude - you can always find another one.

It's also a slot where people will make larger bets because the base game returns are incredibly high which either ends in slow losses or chasing your losses and before you know it, you just blew alot of money.

In conclusion - you can't blame BMW because someone bought their car, drove too fast, and killed someone.
You can't blame Coca Cola because someone drank 30 cans a day, got fat and died
You can't blame Titleist because someone got hit by a golf ball struck by an imcompetent golfer
This belief that responsibility is NOT in the hands of the person making the decision is ridiculous and synonymous with the society we live in now. It's never your fault - it's always someone else.

I'm off my high horse now ;)
 
Good reply. There's really no need for BTG or anyone else for that matter having to prey on the vulnerable gambler, I'm also rather sure that's never or is there intention.
It's just the fact that bonanza is that terribly HV and volatile, that it may seem that way when your rowing money through sometimes +1000 spins for a bonus, can happen with rhino, it happened to me on monte only days ago.

Lets take brick and mortar casinos for example. Have you ever seen a clock? How often do you see windows in a casino? Have you noticed how most casinos go with the color red and have upbeat music? American casino's provide free alcohol to gamblers.

All of this is the very essence of preying on the vulnerable.

There is also a huge difference between Rhino and Bonanza. The only similarity is it's HV with huge potential. Bonanza has everything the gamer could dream of. Amazing graphics, one of the most enticing bonus rounds ever offered.


This belief that responsibility is NOT in the hands of the person making the decision is ridiculous and synonymous with the society we live in now. It's never your fault - it's always someone else.


Just because one person can say I am strong enough to say no doesn't mean the next person with a sickness can.
 
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The industry does a lot (arguably not enough) to help problem gamblers. There is a myriad of support if they choose to want it. The biggest thing i could see is a self-exclusion system that covers ALL online casinos. For example, allow someone to blacklist themselves from being able to register at a casino. This would help problem gamblers who have so much choice of online casinos, it almost doesn't matter if you self-exclude - you can always find another one.



Lets use two casinos for examples.

Video slots. They are the perfect example of a casino that offers more than enough options to recreational gamblers, possible problem gamblers etc. They offer deposit restrictions, cool off periods and self exclusions.

Fortune Lounge. They are the perfect example of how not to to execute guidelines on responsible gambling. You cannot find a self exclusion or cool off period anywhere on their site. Their policy (written in their terms) is to contact support and discuss your options with them. I have done this myself when I have wanted to take a 30 day break. They wont allow it. Instead they offer to lock your account and that's all but 20 minutes later you can request it to be re-opened and they will. So what is the point of this? It's them trying to make themselves looks responsible. Aside from that your only option is to state you have a gambling problem which terminates your account across their brand.

Is the 2nd example doing enough to thwart problem gamblers? Absolutely not.



Now with that being said, I do believe that most of the accredited casino's offered here offer more than enough responsible gaming but as you say self exclusion is somewhat meaningless in the end. There are numerous casino's you can find at the snap of a finger.

What I would like to see done is each licensee/gaming commission offer a complete self exclusion of all their brands as you have suggested. For example, all casino's licensed by the Kahnawake or UKGC and others, have an option on their site to blacklist themselves from all casino's listed under them.

I think that would be a step in the right direction

Now you will have to excuse me, I need to go play some bonanza. :D
 
Lets use two casinos for examples.

Video slots. They are the perfect example of a casino that offers more than enough options to recreational gamblers, possible problem gamblers etc. They offer deposit restrictions, cool off periods and self exclusions.

Fortune Lounge. They are the perfect example of how not to to execute guidelines on responsible gambling. You cannot find a self exclusion or cool off period anywhere on their site. Their policy (written in their terms) is to contact support and discuss your options with them. I have done this myself when I have wanted to take a 30 day break. They wont allow it. Instead they offer to lock your account and that's all but 20 minutes later you can request it to be re-opened and they will. So what is the point of this? It's them trying to make themselves looks responsible. Aside from that your only option is to state you have a gambling problem which terminates your account across their brand.

Is the 2nd example doing enough to thwart problem gamblers? Absolutely not.



Now with that being said, I do believe that most of the accredited casino's offered here offer more than enough responsible gaming but as you say self exclusion is somewhat meaningless in the end. There are numerous casino's you can find at the snap of a finger.

What I would like to see done is each licensee/gaming commission offer a complete self exclusion of all their brands as you have suggested. For example, all casino's licensed by the Kahnawake or UKGC commissions and others have an option on their site to blacklist themselves from all casino's listed under them.

I think that would be a step in the right direction

Now you will have to excuse me, I need to go play some bonanza. :D

Yeah - the whole self-exclusion idea is something i mentioned a few posts ago, and would absolutely be the right thing to do...
And yes of course there are some really bad casinos out there who don't care about responsible gaming - but don't tar us all with the same brush :)
And i stand by what i say - it is not a game provider (slots companies) fault if you gamble too much...
 
Responsible gambling is solely down to the individual. At the end of the day nobody forces you to click the mouse nor hand over banking details and deposit.
Just because BTG have made a really interesting slot that's well designed, bright and colourful and has everyone talking about it doesn't mean that it's done to incite more hardcore gambling that's just madness.
When a slot comes out that's plain,dull and boring everyone jumps straight on it to slate it. Can't have the best of both worlds,grass is always greener syndrome.
That said, the self exclusion policy within the casinos themselves is frankly terrible,and a hell of a lot use the SE to there own gain. A slot provider makes a slot to keep you playing and entertained,more though to keep you coming back for more and talking about there slot with bonanza that's totally (job done!) for BGT that's how they earn there pennies. Can't really blame them for that IMO :)
 
What I would like to see done is each licensee/gaming commission offer a complete self exclusion of all their brands as you have suggested. For example, all casino's licensed by the Kahnawake or UKGC and others, have an option on their site to blacklist themselves from all casino's listed under them.

I think that would be a step in the right direction

The UKGC did start down this route a couple of years ago and did perform consultation with the industry however, as far as I am aware, they are yet to get anywhere near selecting a provider/supplier for this system.

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Lets take brick and mortar casinos for example. Have you ever seen a clock? How often do you see windows in a casino? Have you noticed how most casinos go with the color red and have upbeat music? American casino's provide free alcohol to gamblers.

All of this is the very essence of preying on the vulnerable.

Parts of our business strategy which were discussed in many a meeting, few others off the top of my head...

No staff were allowed to wear watches, didn't want punters catching a glimpse.

Last numbers out display boards on every roulette table, font would increase if say there were a long run of red numbers high/low/odd/even/black etc.

Free meals daily, comp beers, theme nights (Chinese/Asian buffets)

"Free" trips to the races/dogs (Coach always picked up n dropped off at casino of course :rolleyes:)

Cash Matches for fruit machines

Comp ciggies and the odd free 'Pony Chip' for heavy losers

Excellent from a business point of view. terrible from an ethical point of view but as has been said no one forced the punters through the door!

Swings and roundabouts!!
 
That said, the self exclusion policy within the casinos themselves is frankly terrible,and a hell of a lot use the SE to there own gain. A slot provider makes a slot to keep you playing and entertained,more though to keep you coming back for more and talking about there slot with bonanza that's totally (job done!) for BGT that's how they earn there pennies. Can't really blame them for that IMO :)

I actually tried to self exclude from a casino a long time ago - i can't remember what it was, and they told me (no word of a lie): "If you keep playing, a big win will be just around the corner. I can even put a bonus on your account for you if you want to try and win back your losses."
 
I actually tried to self exclude from a casino a long time ago - i can't remember what it was, and they told me (no word of a lie): "If you keep playing, a big win will be just around the corner. I can even put a bonus on your account for you if you want to try and win back your losses."

Wouldn't suprise me one bit. Not to say all are this immoral by any stretch, but certainly a fair few.
As stated previously, its zip to do with a slot provider, its casino and player who should deal with responsible gambling, the slot provider merely provides a entertainment experience, how people interprete that is down to them.
 
I actually tried to self exclude from a casino a long time ago - i can't remember what it was, and they told me (no word of a lie): "If you keep playing, a big win will be just around the corner. I can even put a bonus on your account for you if you want to try and win back your losses."

lol I had that happen with an RTG casino. I think it was grande vegas.
 
Gambling disorder, compulsive gambling or pathological disorders are all known as impulse control disorders. So in reality if you are a compulsive gambler you no longer have a choice. It has become a sickness. It's especially found in people who suffer from ADHD, anxiety, bi polar and many other sicknesses. So that is not a personal choice.

You may not want or need them but it happens regardless and you may be speaking on a personal level but I dont believe you would represent all software providers. Many of their intentions are to create games that become addicting.

With that being said, BTG production of the game was to make something that people enjoy. That's the aim of all software providers, isnt it? I don't think they sat there and thought will this cause gambling addictions. They wanted to create a game that is successful.

Whether their intentions were meant that way or not, that game is an instant hit with casino's and players. It's a game that keeps you even and playing a very long time in hopes of obtaining that large win. It is also a game that is going to be very dangerous to problem gamblers as the entire slot is appealing to all sorts of gamers and is a perfect example of "that big hit is going to come soon I can feel it". You then have all the gems, diamonds, stacked symbols, extra reels, fast upbeat music, special sound effects for decent little hits. It's a gamers dream and a problem gamblers nightmare.

It's also a slot where people will make larger bets because the base game returns are incredibly high which either ends in slow losses or chasing your losses and before you know it, you just blew alot of money.

Is it the gun manufacturers fault when someone gets killed by a gun they've made? Not the place for this discussion....

but is it the manufacturers of whiskys fault for making that bottle so shiny and attractive? I'm not a drinker but I love to go into the liquor store....everything is so shiny and pretty....

Or smoking.....we have ugly packaging here in Quebec....charcoaled lungs on packeaging.....does it work? Don't think so.

People who are prone to addiction will be addicted no matter the game , the packaging etc....
 
Parts of our business strategy which were discussed in many a meeting, few others off the top of my head...

No staff were allowed to wear watches, didn't want punters catching a glimpse.

Last numbers out display boards on every roulette table, font would increase if say there were a long run of red numbers high/low/odd/even/black etc.

Free meals daily, comp beers, theme nights (Chinese/Asian buffets)

"Free" trips to the races/dogs (Coach always picked up n dropped off at casino of course :rolleyes:)

Cash Matches for fruit machines

Comp ciggies and the odd free 'Pony Chip' for heavy losers

Excellent from a business point of view. terrible from an ethical point of view but as has been said no one forced the punters through the door!

Swings and roundabouts!!

Sounds like a place I want to put my bunk bed at!


Is it the gun manufacturers fault when someone gets killed by a gun they've made? Not the place for this discussion....

but is it the manufacturers of whiskys fault for making that bottle so shiny and attractive? I'm not a drinker but I love to go into the liquor store....everything is so shiny and pretty....

Or smoking.....we have ugly packaging here in Quebec....charcoaled lungs on packeaging.....does it work? Don't think so.

People who are prone to addiction will be addicted no matter the game , the packaging etc....

Was this meant for me?

because I agree with it all.
 
This is a wonderful thread.

Lovely to hear from someone who actually knows what they are talking about, is articulate and tells it exactly like it is.

Been on here approaching 5 years and this is, by far, the most interesting thread I've come across.

:thumbsup:
 
Hey Interlog

Any game with a bonus frequency of > 1 in 100 could go 1000 games without a bonus... i'm not sure what the bonus frequency is on these BTG games, but i imagine it's infrequent and highly volatile - they would have to be in order to pay the kind of wins that these games can deliver...

I have to take umbrage with your last point though - no one makes players gamble more than they meant to, that's their own personal choice. We don't want or need problem gamblers - we want people to play with funds they are comfortable with losing (if indeed they DO lose) and enjoy their time gambling. BTG games aren't bordering on irresponsible. If you decide to gamble irresponsibly then that's your choice.

Whether it's a good game or not, that's a different discussion...

I disagree with you. As already mentioned by lockinlove, this game is on another level. I have on many occasions compared it to Dead or Alive. At least with Dead or Alive you get the bonus round frequently. You play this type of game purely for the bonus round because that is where the money sits.

To have to wait 1,000s of spins for it for then to be bitterly disappointed because it spits out a less than 50x win is just wrong. With the likes of Dead or Alive you don't mind it that much because you know the next bonus round will be round the corner not too long.

I too compared this game with the Novomatic games that too can go a very long time without a bonus. But at least, when it eventually triggers, it pays relatively well.

At the end of the day, in my opinion, when you design games that have bonus features, either make them drop in frequently or if you don't, then at least reward the player decently when it eventually drops in.
 
At the end of the day, in my opinion, when you design games that have bonus features, either make them drop in frequently or if you don't, then at least reward the player decently when it eventually drops in.

And you opinion is valid... but if you don't like BTG slots, just don't play them. And you're right, whenever I've done a game with a low bonus frequency (I.e 1 in 500 or higher) them I tend to put at least 12 to 15% of the RTP in the bonus.. but of course that can and does change based on the game... there's no "rule" as such, but I do agree with you - the less frequent the bonus, the higher the average pay should be....

However, the average pay of the BTG bonuses may well be 100x, but if it's a volatile bonus then of course you could get nothing or 200x...
 
At the end of the day, in my opinion, when you design games that have bonus features, either make them drop in frequently or if you don't, then at least reward the player decently when it eventually drops in.

If you want games to be truly random, then you can't do the latter. The best you can do is stack the odds in it's favour by allocating more RTP to the feature. The Catch22 is that you do this, there is less RTP for the base game so the game will become too boring and no-one will wait long enough for the feature :)
 
If you want games to be truly random, then you can't do the latter. The best you can do is stack the odds in it's favour

At some point I'll do a post on random... because a previous poster said slots are not random. They are (well, real money ones are - social casinos are not always random)... but it's not that simple...
 
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If you want games to be truly random, then you can't do the latter. The best you can do is stack the odds in it's favour by allocating more RTP to the feature. The Catch22 is that you do this, there is less RTP for the base game so the game will become too boring and no-one will wait long enough for the feature :)

I think Dead or Alive has it just about right. Decent-ish game play, frequent bonuses and we all know and seen the capabilities of those bonuses. You are not going to be ahead all of the time but you also don't end up causing damage to your computer out of sheer frustration.

Trancemonkey - would you say DOA is the best game designed in terms of game play (discounting graphics here) and if not what is the best one in your opinion
 
I think Dead or Alive has it just about right. Decent-ish game play, frequent bonuses and we all know and seen the capabilities of those bonuses. You are not going to be ahead all of the time but you also don't end up causing damage to your computer out of sheer frustration.

Trancemonkey - would you say DOA is the best game designed in terms of game play (discounting graphics here) and if not what is the best one in your opinion

That's a fantastic question!.. like it!.
 
Are you familiar with the game of thrones slot? If so, how would you say the rtp is distributed in that one? My guess is a good portion in the 2 scatter bonus and base game and not so much in the bonus rounds. Sure the bonus can give you a real big win but they are really far and few between.

Do I have this correct?
 
Jackpot age of gods

I win a jackpot game of age of gods. $12747,12, in december . In bet365 casino. THe slot is a progressive jackpot . But i have a question. Who pay this amount? i withdrawal for bet365 in four cashouts.this amount is pay for all casinos if a game play or only bet365?
 
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