Q&A Ask Me Anything about Slots (AMA) 2020 with Trancemonkey

[Spikie]

The Razor Shark win is interesting..... how is it so far outside the theoretical maximum ?

would they have found it in testing after 2 billion spins and not 1 billion ?

and why didn’t they just program a hard 50000x limit so it couldn’t be exceeded ?

 

[trancemonkey]

When we run 4 billion games, or whatever the amount it, there is no guarantee that the maximum win is not higher than the maximum we see in that number of games.

It is entirely possible that a win higher than the max seen in 4 billion games could happen in the Wild. All we are saying is that the maximum win seen in 4b games is X. However, there could be a 1 in 5bn chance of a higher win that simply was not caught by the simulation.

This is perfectly acceptable and legal - and is in the players favour!

 

[BlaCGaming]

When we run 4 billion games, or whatever the amount it, there is no guarantee that the maximum win is not higher than the maximum we see in that number of games.

It is entirely possible that a win higher than the max seen in 4 billion games could happen in the Wild. All we are saying is that the maximum win seen in 4b games is X. However, there could be a 1 in 5bn chance of a higher win that simply was not caught by the simulation.

This is perfectly acceptable and legal - and is in the players favour!

But doesn't that one huge win have a big impact on RTP? Or is the stated RTP for the 4bn games only and could go over the more games are played?

 

[trancemonkey]

But doesn't that one huge win have a big impact on RTP? Or is the stated RTP for the 4bn games only and could go over the more games are played?

Correct the stated RTP would be based on the 4bn game simulation. At worst, the RTP would only ever be higher. And no, it would make almost no difference to the RTP.

An 85,000x win at 1 in 4bn games would make 0.002125% difference to the RTP. I.e so small it makes no practical difference

 

[BlaCGaming]

Correct the stated RTP would be based on the 4bn game simulation. At worst, the RTP would only ever be higher. And no, it would make almost no difference to the RTP.

An 85,000x win at 1 in 4bn games would make 0.002125% difference to the RTP. I.e so small it makes no practical difference

Interesting, thank you!

Does this in turn mean that just because you had a max win of 50k x in simulations doesn't guarantee any player will actually hit that max win anywhere even when doing those 4bn games? It's just something that YOU hit in simulations?

 

[trancemonkey]

Interesting, thank you!

Does this in turn mean that just because you had a max win of 50k x in simulations doesn't guarantee any player will actually hit that max win anywhere even when doing those 4bn games? It's just something that YOU hit in simulations?

Correct. There can be no guarantees with random

 

[PuddleFish]

This is perfectly acceptable and legal - and is in the players favour!

I do wonder however if the operator doesn't have a strong argument against the supplier to pay for part of this. Since the operator had to payout in this case 1.75m SEK (168k EUR) more than they though was possible.
Since its "infinity spins" in that game it could then as well go above the 85000x and cost the operator 100x that and bankrupting the whole company from a single game.

 

[trancemonkey]

I do wonder however if the operator doesn't have a strong argument against the supplier to pay for part of this. Since the operator had to payout in this case 1.75m SEK (168k EUR) more than they though was possible.
Since its "infinity spins" in that game it could then as well go above the 85000x and cost the operator 100x that and bankrupting the whole company from a single game.

They would very likely not have any claim against the developer, and also would be crazy not to have a max payout clause in their Ts and Cs like most do.

What was the total win? I can't find the thread...

 

[PuddleFish]

They would very likely not have any claim against the developer, and also would be crazy not to have a max payout clause in their Ts and Cs like most do.

What was the total win? I can't find the thread...

It was a total of 4.27M SEK in Old URL. Seems like they payed it out from a comment in the youtube video "The Casino paid the winnings in full, the game max cap seems to be a soft cap so not set in stone". They might still send part of that bill to the supplier unless they where informed of that the caps are soft and can be broken. At least now they can change it to state max 85000x.

Can't say I have seen a max payout clause anywhere for slots but don't really study the T & Cs in detail. Only the common errors voids all pay and play type of thing.

 

[trancemonkey]

It was a total of 4.27M SEK in Old URL. Seems like they payed it out from a comment in the youtube video "The Casino paid the winnings in full, the game max cap seems to be a soft cap so not set in stone". They might still send part of that bill to the supplier unless they where informed of that the caps are soft and can be broken. At least now they can change it to state max 85000x.

Can't say I have seen a max payout clause anywhere for slots but don't really study the T & Cs in detail. Only the common errors voids all pay and play type of thing.

A lot of casinos can have max payout clauses... and no, they can't send any of that bill to the developer. The max liability data companies send to casinos is never, to my knowledge, an absolute number. It would likely be made perfectly clear that this is the maximum in X number of games, but that that does not mean it is the absolute max.

 

[CasinoNinja]

Alot of casinos have £250.000 as max wins (minus progressive) in any slot game, I tend to avoid those casinos as miracles could happen

 

[JkG]

Do games providers have to run their games through a gauntlet of checks before they release them for the casinos? Also, do the casinos have a team of some kind that personally check the games to ensure correct working order before launching ?

Thanking Mr Monkey

Also what's your favourite trance track?
Assuming you're a trance dancin monkey?
Were you also an adolescent of the 90s?




Ah no... Really just wanted to know the first part and thought this page needed some cute pics. Also speaking of cute. Lil n00b kitty gambler poses a question



Wish I knew kiddo..

 

[bamberfishcake]

Alot of casinos have £250.000 as max wins (minus progressive) in any slot game, I tend to avoid those casinos as miracles could happen

Take it these are under the radar 'not your average casino'? Ive not had a winnings capped yet but i dont read all the t&c's as i should if im honest.

 

[trancemonkey]

Take it these are under the radar 'not your average casino'? Ive not had a winnings capped yet but i dont read all the t&c's as i should if im honest.

Nope.. William Hill and Coral have these I believe (or at least used to...)

It will be stated in the rules

 

[SnakeFood]

I would have thought most have a maximum payout in the t&C's. £250k, £500 or possibly £1m

 

[CasinoNinja]

Alot do yes, but the likes of Rizk, Videoslots etc don't. But they tend to lower the max bet on the most volatile games to prevent massive winnings

 

[SnakeFood]

Exactly. The max payout at any offered stake on a game really shouldn't exceed their T&C maximum payout.

 

[SnakeFood]

Progressives aside of course, like you say

 

[trancemonkey]

View attachment 144958

Do games providers have to run their games through a gauntlet of checks before they release them for the casinos? Also, do the casinos have a team of some kind that personally check the games to ensure correct working order before launching ?

Thanking Mr Monkey

Also what's your favourite trance track?
Assuming you're a trance dancin monkey?
Were you also an adolescent of the 90s?

View attachment 144959


Ah no... Really just wanted to know the first part and thought this page needed some cute pics. Also speaking of cute. Lil n00b kitty gambler poses a question

View attachment 144960

Wish I knew kiddo..

Yes, in regulated markets, games have to be certified as compliant. Also, someone internal (a personal licence holder) also has to sign the game off if I remember correctly, and I think they can be held personally responsible if anything dodgy is found out.

If you search for "UKGC Remote Technical standards" on google, you will be able to see all the stuff they are tested against. And all the standards they have to reach.

Favourite Trance track - Maybe Alex MORPH remix of Sun In The Winter. Was always a "safe" track in my sets for years.

I was born late 70s, so yes

 

[Siohmy]

Nope.. William Hill and Coral have these I believe (or at least used to...)

It will be stated in the rules

Sky Vegas as well. £250k max. It means that if you play DOA2 for example at their max bet of £3.60 the actual jackpot is a shade under 65,000x bet. Some way short of the games JP of 111,111x.

 

[JkG]

Yes, in regulated markets, games have to be certified as compliant. Also, someone internal (a personal licence holder) also has to sign the game off if I remember correctly, and I think they can be held personally responsible if anything dodgy is found out.

If you search for "UKGC Remote Technical standards" on google, you will be able to see all the stuff they are tested against. And all the standards they have to reach.

Favourite Trance track - Maybe Alex MORPH remix of Sun In The Winter. Was always a "safe" track in my sets for years.

I was born late 70s, so yes

Ok so why are VS blaming the games provider if the game was tested before launching. Why aren't they, the casino, responsible for crediting my win even though they are passing the buck (not to me ) to the games provider having to investigate an error before I can have my win credited to my account . I posted a description in the Online casinos forum just now of what has gone down since November 3rd. Bloody peed off I am.

I was born in 1980, I think my favourite is probably Nalin and Kane Beach all (original mix) and Delerium Silence (also original) circa 1995-1997

 

[trancemonkey]

Ok so why are VS blaming the games provider if the game was tested before launching. Why aren't they, the casino, responsible for crediting my win even though they are passing the buck (not to me ) to the games provider having to investigate an error before I can have my win credited to my account . I posted a description in the Online casinos forum just now of what has gone down since November 3rd. Bloody peed off I am.

I was born in 1980, I think my favourite is probably Nalin and Kane Beach all (original mix) and Delerium Silence (also original) circa 1995-1997

Because just because a game passes testing from a test lab does not guarantee that there are no faults. It just means that the games have been tested to the best of their ability.... the most testing is done on maths. As for other stuff, it is likely not as thoroughly tested

 

[trancemonkey]

Ok so why are VS blaming the games provider if the game was tested before launching. Why aren't they, the casino, responsible for crediting my win even though they are passing the buck (not to me ) to the games provider having to investigate an error before I can have my win credited to my account . I posted a description in the Online casinos forum just now of what has gone down since November 3rd. Bloody peed off I am.

I was born in 1980, I think my favourite is probably Nalin and Kane Beach all (original mix) and Delerium Silence (also original) circa 1995-1997

What was the fault?

 

[JkG]

What was the fault?

I posted here @trancemonkey

A problem with VS and their Game Provider.

 

[curremon]

@trancemonkey What kind of testing is done before slot can be released ? For example pragmatic play christmass carol ive now got bonus 11 times.. 6 times ive picked mystery and results have been 5 spins x1 every time.. 3 times ive done 10 spins 5x start and i end up 7x multiplier with 5x-10x win. 2times 5spins x10 and all 5 spins both times dead... WHAT IS THIS